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Discussion on Know what hurts - Don't know how to fix it
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Member:
dccranch
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2011 - 11:10 am:
We have a 9 year old Quarter Horse Gelding that is about 16 hands high and very stocky. Not fat but definitely BIG. Lots of weight on those front feet. When we got him a year ago his feet were terrible. Multiple cracks on all feet from the ground all the way to the coronary band. You could put a dime in the crack they were so wide. He is not 'dead' lame but very sore on the front. Can walk but gets very stiff legged if asked to trot.
His hooves have grown out well but he is still sore. We got some information on barefoot trim and decided his bars were very much laid over. The bars were trimmed slightly (not overtrimmed) and that very same evening he appeared to be much more comfortable at the trot. We took him to the vet 2 days later and got xrays. They were beautiful. No navicular, no founder, no arthritis, no inflamed bursa - all the bones were in the right place and at the right angles with good even hoof wall thickness - so rule out those problems. The hoof tester showed that he was sore only on the front hooves and only between the bars and the outer hoof - which makes sense since he did seem relieved after the bar trim but would expectedly still be sore.
The vet wrapped his hooves and lower legs after applying a poultice of Mag-60 to the bottom of his hooves. It was to stay on three days to help with soreness and then we were supposed to repack once a day for a total of 10 days. I took off the bandages last night and he seems even more tender - possibly because his feet are very soft. But - whats weird - he now has these pencil eraser sized holes all around his coronary band on one foot and a couple on the other foot. I did not rewrap last night awaiting a call back from the vet.
Any ideas on any of this?   
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2011 - 3:33 pm:
I'm not familiar with Mag-60, but are the holes abscesses that finally ruptured?
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2011 - 7:27 pm:
I will say that my horse moose has gotten holes in his coronary band like that when he had an abscess and it was getting ready to burst through there. It took several days before it actually came out too. Could he have had bruising that turned into abscesses?
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Member:
dccranch
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 7, 2011 - 4:56 pm:
I have been scouring the blogs and a lot of people say it's from being too wet. That would make sense since he was bandaged so high for three days the moisture was probably very high.
On the other hand, he is showing large red bruises at the top of his hoof next to his coronary band now and that is suspect for abscess.
I am waiting it out now.
Poor guy!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 7, 2011 - 9:14 pm:
Oh my.
The feet look quite small for a big quarter horse.
Don't know either about the wrapping.
Sounds as though the cure may have been worse than the problem.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 8, 2011 - 7:46 am:
I agree with the wetness explanation. When the soft coronary tissues are kept too moist, there is further softening and it wears away making holes like you see above. They will grow out just fine, just keep the foot dry.
As to the lameness is the current working diagnosis that the soles are sensitive because they are thin or soft? If so polticing the foot would seem to me to be contraindicated as it will continue to soften the horn further.
DrO
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Member:
dccranch
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Posted on Friday, Apr 8, 2011 - 9:02 am:
As I mentioned before I have been scouring the internet for possible causes.
I agree with Dr. Ogelsby that the poultice is only keeping the sole moist which would keep it tender.
I think our vet was trying to treat a "sore" hoof like you would a sore muscle but that doesn't seem to be the underlying cause.
His xrays all came out very good - ground level coffin bone, good hoof wall thickness, and good sole thickness.
I came across an interesting article about 'dry' thrush. It seemed to indicate that thrush - at extreme levels - can get deeper into the tissue and this 'dry' thrush doesn't always have the same smell as what we are accustomed to. It also said that a lot of vets 'miss' this diagnosis. I love my vet but he is not 'big' on barefoot hooves if there are any problems at all. His next suggestion was for corrective shoeing. I really disagree with putting shoes on my horse when we haven't found the underlying cause of his pain.
So - I put on my trusty helmet and safety glasses and got up close and personal with a couple of hooves last night. I mean REALLY close. It does look somewhat suspect for possible tissue infection when I started poking around in the collateral grooves. This is around the area that the hoof tester indicated he was so sore. I then compared that look to our other two horses and they were very different.
So......I have discontinued the use of a "soreness" treating poultice and slathered his collateral grooves and sulcus with triple antibiotic ointment last night. I'm going to try a 7-10 day approach and repack nightly with the antibiotic unless anyone else has suggestions...
Please let me know!!!
thanks!
Mickey
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Apr 8, 2011 - 3:07 pm:
Dr. O will have to answer as to the appropriateness of the Triple Antibiotic Ointment but it seems to me that this would not be a good remedy for a fungal problem, which is what one would expect in this location?
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 9, 2011 - 12:01 am:
Dry seems the rational approach. The antibiotic ointment will tend to continue to soften the tissues.
Have you tried cutting out styrofoam pads and duct taping them to the front feet? Not as a treatment, but as a diagnostic tool? If he has sore soles, he should show marked relief with the "styrofoam slippers".
His trim looks a tad short for such a large horse...when he came to you with all the cracks, was he way overgrown?
I see the pink bruise-like color on his foot and I can understand your concern.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 9, 2011 - 12:58 pm:
Thrush in horse hooves is primarily a bacterial disease. I have not used triple antibiotic ointment so cannot way whether it might help. Many on this site have had excellent results with a commonly available mastitis medicine, for more on all this see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Thrush.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 9, 2011 - 1:40 pm:
I used the mastitis medicine when one of mine was extremely sore in the heel bulbs and rear area of his feet and also used some of the strong thrush buster type of medications in the central sulcus. Eventually my Vet cut off a lot of diseased frog.
My Vet and farrier had not originally thought that the horse had thrush but he sure did!
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Member:
dccranch
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 9, 2011 - 9:56 pm:
We have definitely isolated the problem to his front feet, only on the soles, closest to the heels. His xrays confirmed that his bone structure is good and he is ground level. No signs of navicular and no "rings" on the hoof walls indicating founder.
His hooves have been trimmed according to the shape and size of the sole and his hoof wall was measured to be good on the xrays. Yes, I agree his hooves seem a bit small for his weight. But both the farrier and the natural trimmer feel that his hooves are shaped according to what nature gave him.
We have isolated the soreness by booting his fronts and almost all of the lameness ceases. Although this "fixes" the problem it doesn't fix the cause.
I agree that keeping the areas moist is not the best idea. I am moving forward with the hope that might just be a very bad case of thrush. We have treated the last three nights with a mixture of athletes foot cream (fungal) and triple antibiotic ointment (bacterial). He is still sore but just ever so slightly less stiff on the front end tonight.
I am going to try to find the mastitis medication on Monday.
In addition I have started him on Platinum Performance Hoof Supplement.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE continue to send me ideas so I can eventually find the root cause of this problem.
Thanks you soooooo Much!!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 9, 2011 - 10:55 pm:
Hi DCCRanch,
Any store that carries cattle products should carry the mastitis medication- Look for either Tomorrow or Today, one treats dry cows and the other treats wet cows(with milk). The best way I have found to use this is to first squirt it in the grooves and then take a gauze pad(single layer) and press this in to the grooves as far as it will go pushing it in gradually with the point of a hoof-pick and re-saturate the gauze with the medication. You'll know you have this beat when you can no longer get the gauze in the grooves. This stuff works very fast and you should see a difference in a few days.
Best of luck with him
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 10, 2011 - 3:50 pm:
DCCCRanch,
Do you happen to remember where you saw the article on dry thrush? I would like to read about that.
Is the frog healthy and in contact with the ground? One of my horses is a bit off in front now also, and doesn't have the signs of thrush in the smelly/oozy way, but yet very poor frogs. I suspect missing the cushing, circulation pump action from the poor frog condition is part of the issue I am seeing and may be your issue too?
How about when you push on his heels? Is there a strong spongy feeling with very little give, or is it more soft & mushy feeling? I may have the wrong term but I believe that is called the digitial cushion and it could be broke down if the horse has had long standing hoof pathologies.
It becomes a balancing act that is hard to fix: Sore heels/ weak frog causes the horse to avoid heel first landings and less heel landings cause those very issues to not correct themselves. The horse must land heel first to stimulate the frog growth and keep all heel areas functioning properly.
I believe Pete Ramey mixes the triple antibiotic cream with desitin to make his "hoof goop" that he puts into the grooves, frog solues, etc, with a big syringe. It's messy but if you can get it in there and keep the hoof up a bit to let it dry seems to help. I think desitin has zinc for healing and provides a waterproof barrier. Been awhile since I used it or read about it so check out his site I am sure the recipe is on there.
I've never used the cow stuff, let me know if you try it and your results. It's very wet here and I should get something!
Best of luck
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Member:
dccranch
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 1:50 pm:
Not sure where I saw the article on dry thrush but it was an article on "two kinds of thrush". You might find it by googling. I have been reading so many things I can't keep up with all of the links.
I do think we are fighting the mechanics of sore heels causing him to tiptoe and not work the frog.
Now the question is.............do we use hoof boots with some frog support to help work those tissues?
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