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  Discussion on Mini with huge swelling on right side jowl, under eye
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Member:
quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 11:18 pm:

It has been a rough animal month around here!
This afternoon, it was beautiful, so all horses were out in the pasture, Lacey the mini, is 9 1/2 month pregnant, she was out with all her boys. I have been keeping her separate, or with the old horse Dusty in a grass yard.
Tonight, I looked out and Dusty was again down, can't get up. In the past Lacy has gone over close to him when he was struggling, so I don't know if that is what happened or what.
Anyhow, I put all the horses away, to get Dusty up, and then noticed that Lacey had a softball size hard swelling under her eye on her jowl. Poor baby. I felt in her mouth and teeth seemed ok. she can slowly eat grass, and i fed her softened gruel, which she sucked right down. I put an ice pack on her halter, and brushed her cute little butt, but I feel so bad.
The vet said I could give her 2 cc's of banamine, which i did.
She is so close to foaling, and since I should never ever in a million years taken on a pregnant mare, not even ever having had puppies, I am just worried.
Is there anything I should be doing for her? I called the vet and he said she will be ok! Obviously we will not be with the other horses.
she does have a bruise that looks like a horse hoof, which makes me think she got in the way of Dusty trying to get up. A full blown kick from a big horse would have seemed to do more damage, I would think.
My, I am sure I don't know what I was thinking, having any animals, I am such a worry wort!!!!!!!
thanks,
anyone want to come to Iowa to sit in the barn with me during Mini watch?????? I promise I will keep the tornadoes at bay!
suz
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 13, 2011 - 12:10 am:

Hello Susan,
To answer the question on treatment it will depend on the nature of the swelling. To help you diagnose it see the article associated with this discussion and see if you can figure it out. If not you should have the vet out to look at it.
DrO
Member:
quatro

Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2011 - 11:29 pm:

The vet was out today, and said we were lucky it missed her eye. how true. It is slowly going down, and he did not feel that it was an abscess.
He did give her west nile tetnus,eew,and the other one.
Later she was really restless, pawing the ground,looking unhappy I gave her 2 cc of banamine orally. Later she was more settled, but laying down alot.
When she was restless, i lifted her tail, and she was doing that winking thing? Any clue what that means.
The baby is definately moving around in there, just hope she can hold off for a while. She was supposedly last bred june 18th and june 22nd of last year. If she were to foal this soon, would it be a problem?
I got a barn cam today, however, it is so windy and it is wireless so not working real well.
suz
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2011 - 10:42 am:

Susan, the mini mare was checked in foal by a vet, right? If so, she could either have some minor irritation or minor contractions that is causing the winking. If you never had the mare vet checked, it's possible she is coming into season, as they "wink" when in season. Is their any drainage?
Member:
quatro

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 2:54 am:

Sad News, and no real advice locally!
Tonight checked on Lacy before we went to dinner for 3 hours, she was eating hay, ate her dinner, acting ok.
When we got home I checked the camera, saw lacy was up, but a blob in the corner. Raced out to the barn, and the baby was in the sac, very cold, and not really complete, I don't think. there was blood everywhere, all over Lacy. She walked out of the stall, started eating over by dusty's stall.
The fetus was in a sac, with another big blood/liquid filled sac attached to it. Is this the placenta???
I called our on call vet, who is actually a pig vet I believe. He said to make sure nothing is hanging out of her, and said to check to see if it was all in tact> I don't know what all in tact means or looks like.
We took her to the training center, washed off all the blood, checked her everywhere, she was not torn, no dripping fluid. But shivering a bit. We dried her as best we could, she ate some of her mushed up grain, had a drink of water, and patiently stood by as we brushed her. She even went over and pawed at a basket ball in the room.
I do not have a mini blanket, so I put a blanket on her and took her to her stall. It is 30 degrees out tonight. As soon as i put her in her stall she started eating hay and then shivering again.
I put her in the dog kennel with the heat up to 65, her temp is 100.4. It is 2am, The vet said it would be ok to give her some banamine, and she should be just fine! As you all know my confidence is not the greatest in our vets. I had the vet out yesterday, she had her vaccines, he looked her over, and I mean that literally, looked from a distance, did not even lift a tail.
Could he have given her something to hold off the late term abortion? I am so sad, but I don't really know anything else I could have done.
It is too late for any advice, but hope she will be ok in the morning.
suz
Member:
frances

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 6:17 am:

I'm so sorry Susan, and I hope you get some answers, and that Lacy comes through it fine.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 9:55 am:

My condolences Susan,
As to preventing the abortion, it would depend of the cause. There is no "abortion prevention treatment", you have to treat the cause of the abortion. For more on this see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Reproductive Diseases » Problems During Pregnancy.

As to whether you are looking at the placenta there is not enough description in your post to know for sure. There are two sacks: the thin white amnion and the thicker meaty looking placenta. For an image check out HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Reproductive Diseases » Problems During Pregnancy » Early Embryonic Loss & Abortion.

The fact that the mare seems to feel well and the temp is OK suggests things are going well so far. Evaluating other vital signs may help you further assess her status. For more see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » First Aid » Taking Temperature, Pulse, and Respiration.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 11:08 am:

So Sorry, Susan. Keep an eye on your mare. Did you save the fetus and the sacs? If so, you can have a necropsey done on the fetus if you really want to know why she aborted. Or, you can look at the fetus yourself and see if it looks normal at least. Also, take the sacs and spread them out on a clean garbage bag (for example) and compare them to the pictures refered to above. If it looks like a piece of the placenta is missing, then look for it in the stall and if you can't find it, call your vet back and keep a close watch on your mare. If she developes fever, starts shaking, etc. she could have an infection which can be potentially serious. I belive the articles referred to above tell you more about this. It could be that the foal had a problem of some sort, or that the mare came to you without getting all her proper shots or some other problem. Sadly, these things happen ( I only had it happen once and never did find out the cause, even with a necropsey on the foal.) Just keep a close eye on your mare.
Member:
quatro

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 12:18 pm:

Thanks Dr. O and Sara for getting back to me. I have no interest ever in being in the breeding business! I don't know how you do it Sara.
Lacy came to me already bred, the guy was getting out of the business. I was looking for a gelding, but he was so persistent that I would be a good home for this little one. She was only just 2, I think too young.
Tom took the fetus and the bag to the vet clinic. Their "horse" vet came out and looked it over. He said that he could not believe that everything was all there, even the horns(?) were all in tact. He said it was definately premature, and that it was very large. He said that perhaps is why it aborted, but that sometimes there is no real answer, especially in minis. He did not think the kick would necessarily have caused the aborting, She is only 30 inches, and he said as big as the baby was as a premi, it could possibly been a very difficult birth at full term.
We did not opt to open the bag and look at the baby, We are going to bury "him" I was hoping for a him, but don't really want to disturb it to look. We lost an old pet duck, an old pet chicken and even a 12 year old Plecostamus fish that have been in the freezer all winter, waiting for spring to bury, so he will join my other pets in my grove.
The vet did not think antibiotics were warranted as everything seems to have been expelled and she is eating and drinking well. Just to keep an eye on her over the next 10 days or so. She had not pooped over night, but he did not seemed to concerned as yet.
Is this good advice, I hope so.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 2:06 pm:

Susan, it sounds to me like you've gotten some good advice from this vet. I've never bred minis, but know a woman who did, and she often had a lot of problems with the foaling, and lost several foals and evan a mare to difficult births. Evidently, it isn't uncommon for the fetus to be too large for an easy birth? I don't know if it was the particular type of minis this woman had, or if this is true of all minis. Regardless of breed, imo 2 is too young to be foaling anyway. With an Arabian, the mare wouldn't even be full size by then. That all parts of the placenta were found is very good. I'll be surprised if your mare has any problems at all since that is the case.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 4:06 pm:

Sorry about the sad outcome, Susan, and hope the little mini-mare will be just fine.
Member:
quatro

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 7:55 pm:

Dr O, is there anything I should be giving her as after care? She seems to be really itchy, scratching her neck, side and butt against the fence. Her vulva looks very red inside, but the outside is not irritated.
She is eating her grain, had her out on pasture for a while. She is laying down in her straw several times today. I would assume she is pretty tired. We did walk down to get the mail, and she trotted down the driveway and back. She seems clingy when I am out with her, brushed her, and took her out to her babies grave to say goodbye. Weird, she sniffed the ground, and hung her little head. I did take her to the baby last night and let her smell it.
I will re-read the article and see if there is anything i should be doing.
thanks
suz
Member:
lilo

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 9:52 am:

Susan, I am very sorry your little mini lost her foal, but, considering that she was so young, it might be for the best.

Wishing you and Lacy all the best for the future,
Lilo
Member:
quatro

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 11:34 am:

Dr. O, one more question, I called the vet on call here, and he said not to worry, but would appreciate your confirmation on this.
Lacy aborted on Friday sometime between 8pm and 11pm. We had her in the dog kennel overnight Friday, and in her stall and outside in the pasture Saturday. This morning on cleaning stalls, I have still not found any manure. She is eating well, and I am watering down her grain. The vet said that after having gone through this she probably evacuated herself pretty thoroughly, and not to worry.
Easy for him to say . . . If she is acting ok and eating still, is it ok to not worry, or should I be doing anything to insure she is not impacting?
thanks
suz
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 12:11 pm:

Susan, I'm not sure how Dr.O feels about this practice (as to effectiveness) but we always made a sloppy warm bran mash for our mares after they foaled. I never had a problem with a mare not "going" and think the mash helped. At the very least, they really enjoyed it. It has to be pretty soupy and I always added "goodies" like chopped apples and carrots for a special treat.
Member:
quatro

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 2:07 pm:

I will make her a little more special mash for dinner. I have been splitting her servings of grain in to four a day instead of two.
I had her outside, it is like 34 degrees today, now more like 40, but she was kinda shivering. I put her back in the training center and she warmed up. I borrowed a slightly small mini blanket and put it on her and just put her out on some grass for a while.
Her temp was 99.4
So Much to worry about . . .why do i fill my life with animals ?????????????????
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 5:20 pm:

Nothing wrong with a warm mash but it is common for mares to be devoid of stool for a day or two following foaling. There does seem to be a cleaning out prior to foaling and most mares do not eat well the day of foaling. I cannot say if your mare is having problems or not but you certainly have my permission to not worry. Watching carefully will be good enough.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 5:41 pm:

I agree with Dr.O on the worrying! You will drive yourself crazy! It's like with children; you take the precautions you can, but you can't controll everything. Check on her, so what you can to make her feel better, then try and distract yourself and relax. Her temp is certainly normal and she's showing other signs of improvement. She's probably tired; which could help account for the shivering. As she regains her strength, this will stop. The most I always worried about with the mares was retained placenta. But, your mare passed everything fine. I would expect her to be fine. Mastitis is possible if she has much of a bag. If she does, the vet can give you some meds to dry her up faster. Sometimes this is needed and sometimes not. You can tell by looking at her bag and by feeling it. If it is big, doesn't go down, and is sore, then I'd put her on meds.
Member:
quatro

Posted on Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 - 6:57 pm:

You Guys . . .
Why is it that I feel so much better talking with all of you and Dr. O, than my local vets. I don't know what I would do without you all :-)
Member:
quatro

Posted on Monday, Apr 18, 2011 - 6:52 pm:

WE HAVE POOP!!!!!
Only horse people get the excitement from seeing a few morsels of poopies.

She still has swelling on her face, the vet looked at it and last week when he did shots, and did not think it was an abscess. She does not have a fever, and it is not getting bigger.

It happened 6 days ago, how long do these things take to go down?
suz
I am going to try to post pics of the swelling for anyone to comment, and also a picture of her back end, It is a rather odd shot, but anyone who breeds or Dr. O, does it look ok?





Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 19, 2011 - 7:38 am:

Well, no it does not look alright. It is swollen and we don't know why. If your vet feels this is from trauma and will heal with time, I see no reason to disagree.
DrO
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