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  Discussion on "Smokey" and a bladder cancer diagnosis by vet.
Author Message
New Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Sunday, Oct 2, 2011 - 7:00 pm:

My 24 year old gelding has had on and off dribbling and some blood in his urine. He was examined by the vet a few days ago and he believes, through the anal exam and the feeling of the bladder through the colon (?) that my horse is dribbling from the kidneys and the bladder is filled with cancer tumors. My first question is about the method of his collecting the urine/dribble with a stainless bowl held under his penis. It seems like a sterile catheter method would have been better? I am waiting for his lab results this Monday. "Smokey's" vital signs are all excellent and he went through the invasive exam and having his organs palpated to a point I felt I wanted to just say stop. My horse is very strong and has not had any medical problems prior. What I have read tells me that this type of cancer is rare and the antibiotics "TMS"Sulpha? are working after two days."Smoke" is passing urine from his bladder and it is clear and without blood. He is grazing and shows no sign of discomfort. I will wait for the results of the "Fluid" test and then be able to provide more Information. This site has been wonderful and Dr. O's advice is helping me to understand what my horse may be experiencing. The "Post's" are also so helpful. I doon't feel as alone.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Oct 2, 2011 - 7:37 pm:

This is something new to me, so patience please. How does vet determine urine is from bladder? Also, is TMS (same as TMZ ? ) affect a cancer? I am glad your gelding is doing better, I am just confused a bit. Thanks.
New Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Monday, Oct 3, 2011 - 1:01 pm:

Yes, They are one in the same medications. They are used for bacterial Infection. The reason he is on the medication was explained to me as a prevention from the spread of the Infection from the bladder to the kidneys and into the other organs. It was explained like "metastasizing"? Which would be If he had cancer? Truly I believe the method of taking the sample would lend to finding bacteria. It was not even a "Clean Catch"... So, I have asked for more of the same medication, which will not hurt him to continue the treatment for the next 15 days. I believe the "Sulfa" type medication has helped him greatly and he is urinating through his bladder and It is clear of any visual signs of blood. I will not have him destroyed when he is eating and talking to me and his vital signs are all good. He has no temperature and no discomfort. I have been told If he does have Cancer, "He will die a horrible death". I love my friend and companion. I do not want him to suffer but I believe in the power of healing and love. Please continue to ask questions. They are the way we better understand and share with others. Thank YOU!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 3, 2011 - 2:04 pm:

We had an old broodmare who had cancer; she didn't die a "horrible death." We watched her, gave her good supplements and feed. She did fine for many years. Finally, at the age of 29 she did start to loose weight and acted like she didn't feel good; quit eating, looked like she was in pain. We had her checked by the vet. He did an ultra sound and said the cancer was growing, at he didn't feel there was anymore we could do for her. At that point we had her euthanized.

If there is a good vet hospital where you can take your gelding where they can do ultra sounds,MRI etc. I would highly recommend taking him there. Dr. O will be sure and correct me if I am wrong, but I'm not sure cancer can actually be detected by a urine sample, esp. if you aren't sure it is a clean sample. Did he do blood work also? At the very least that should be done. Lumps and bumps can be felt via palpation, but I don't know how you would tell if the bumps were cancer. Imo, your gelding should have more tests.

The TMZ is for infection and cancer isn't an infection per se, so I'm not sure how TMZ prevents the spread into other organs. If it is helping him, I would think it is stopping either primary infection, or a secondary infection due to overall weakness of immune system. I haven't read the HA article on cancer, if you haven't, you will probably find answers there that are helpful. And, I'm sure as time permits Dr.O will offer more advice and correct any wrong statements I've made.

I just wouldn't be so convinced this is cancer quite yet. Seems to me he could have "just" bad infection.
New Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Monday, Oct 3, 2011 - 3:57 pm:

Thank you so much. I am waiting for the call from the Vet and look forward to asking him some questions. I did not think to have him do the blood panel...It should have been a given. There is an "Imagery Hospital" which I can have the MRI and/ or ultra-sound done If a mobil unit is not available. My former Vet had such a unit and the less stress of hauling him down a steep windy road would be preferred. Thanks again for your help!
New Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Monday, Oct 3, 2011 - 5:25 pm:

Results from the urinalysis were "Smokey" had no bacteria. "There is a little increase in the Epithelia...Blood...High protein". "The lab did not send to pathologist so it will be two or three more days". "Bottom line is Irritation is due to tumor". "Will call you later and discuss the antibiotics". This is the message which was left on my voice mail from the vet. I don't know much right now and he only works through a service so there is no call back option for me unless it is an emergency. I hope to know more soon and also hope to be able to ask about the blood panel. I have requested more med's so he has a full course of the "TMS" aka "TMZ". He was only given #5 days for whatever reason. That is the up-date as of Monday, October 3,2011.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Oct 3, 2011 - 9:04 pm:

Best of luck, Stephie, during such a difficult time. Hearts are with you.
New Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Monday, Oct 3, 2011 - 9:48 pm:

Thank you so much for your kindness, concern and help. This is a very special forum. I hope my "Life Experiences" may help others with their precious animals someday.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 4, 2011 - 8:12 am:

Hope that you get some clearer answers soon.

Thanks for sharing.

Wishing you and your horse all of the best.
Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 4, 2011 - 10:48 am:

The lab results were not viewed by the pathologist, so it will be another three days. I requested more ""TMS" and "Bute". The meds will let me continue to treat the symptoms and prepare "Smoke" for additional tests. The vet I am using is to have "Mobile Imagery Services" or so his web site states, so I hope his ultrasound is repaired and transporting my horse down the windy road is not necessary. I have found other vet's who offer the "Mobile" Imagery services and have placed Inquiries as to when they would be available to come to the ranch. The vet said last night that If the pathologist does not find the "cancer cells" an ultrasound and biopsy needs to be preformed to Identify the growth. It all seems so unbelievable. "Smoke" is doing so well and on minimal anti-Inflamatory meds (1 gram) Bute every 12 hours)and is urinating normally with very little driping/dribble. Eyes bright and all vital's good and HUNGRY! Talking up a storm and showing no signs of any discomfort except a little slow in his gait, but nothing more then any other cold morning in "Fall". He is big and proud and such an amazing animal. He has never let me down and I will not give up on him or take his life as long as he wants to stay. I know that the time will come when he is taken and I hope it is softly and in no way soon. As always I will post anything new and THANKS to ALL who read and respond. Thanks for the thoughts and best wishes. This site is medicine for my soul. I'm out the door to buy more bran for my "Boy".
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 5, 2011 - 3:23 pm:

Welcome StephieJ,
I will be interested in the ultrasound exams to see if it confirms the rectal palpation diagnosis of tumors present. If so the next step is determining the nature of the tumors which may be possible by examining the urine but often will require a biopsy. Let me correct one notion and that is the purpose of the antibiotic. It does not treat the cancer or prevent its spread. However cancer is often accompanied by secondary infection and I believe that is the purpose.
DrO
Member:
smokeysc

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 5, 2011 - 3:51 pm:

Dr. O,
What would the pathologist results tell about what may be a growth or tumor? Those are the remaining results yet to be seen and the lab results showed a rise in protein level and some blood. The lab also found no bacteria and the vet has told me the antibiotics were not helping my horse...The anti-Inflamatory "Bute" was the reason he was doing better. As of today he has not eaten his antibiotic/anti-Inflamatory meds for 24 hours. He is grazing and shows no discomfort. His urine is at times a little cloudy and I have started him on daily electrolytes to increase his water intake. "Smoke" is a good self-regulator. He will not founder himself with an overload of food and truly he has "Good Horse Sense". This is why I am not concerned about his not taking the bute because after a week of even the 1-3 gram dose...He may have some stomach Irritation. I give him fresh bran with the meds,cranberry extract and electrolytes when he does not consume the prior batch. The ultra-sound has not been ordered due to the pending results. If I may ask you your professional opinion on his ability at 24 years of age to recover from a surgery to remove a non-malignant growth? Would the anesthesia be the biggest concern? Thank you for your comments.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 7, 2011 - 8:07 am:

Hello StephieJ,
There may be cancer cells that have exfoliated from the cancer that can be identified. Knowing the type cancer you are dealing with should help some with it's behavior. If your horse is in good health I think the prognosis for recovery from surgery conducted in a modern hospital environment is good.
DrO
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