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  Discussion on Swollen eye lids redness 21 year old arab
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Member:
suemc

Posted on Sunday, Jan 8, 2012 - 10:39 am:

Hello friends

I was hoping not to need help again for a long time (I lost my lovely horse Copper in July) but now my Ellie has presented with problem with her eyes.

It has been exceptionally windy over several days-so bad that on Thursday our spare mobile stable block repositioned itself upside down in a neighbour's field! After that distraction i went to get the horses in and noticed Ellie's eyes were virtually closed. The wind wasn't particularly creating dust as it's not dusty in the fields. It was mainly her upper eyelids that were swollen (no signs of trauma) and both eyes affected. Red hot and swollen inside the lids. Vet been out - young woman didnt seem to have much experience and I'd not seen her before (same practice but they sent her) Didnt freeze or dye her eyes or anything. Had quick look and thinks conjunctivitis but not sure. Gave injection on Friday of flunixin and a small tube of fucithalmic to put in her eyes three times a day for 7 days Eyes got a lot better within a day of starting but three days on and I can see them closing and going red inside again and it's not windy now. Strangely no tearing. Not sure if the DrOps themselves are actually irritating her eyes!! Worried when I read about Uveitis. Has anyone else had experience of conjuctivitis caused by the wind? It's winter in the uk and she has had mild conjunctivitis before in summer when flies bad, but so mild that I have never treated it other than using a fly mask which has always sorted out. Any advice re treatment most welcome. She also seems quiet in general. Temp 101 and though I doubt any connection, she had to have a molar tooth out under sedation just before this started as she wasn't eating properly and dentist found it loose (she has gum disease) She's eating better and doesnt seem to have problems with her mouth.
Member:
suemc

Posted on Sunday, Jan 8, 2012 - 1:55 pm:

One further thing to add is that vet put her on Norodine antibiotics after she had her tooth out. Apparently some of the root sheared off and will stay in her gum so the antibiotics were a precaution. I have just read that norodine can rarely cause dry eye conjunctivitis in dogs... now there's a thought! I wonder if the drug combined with the wind caused this. Would explain the fact that although her eyes are sore they are not watering (like they usually do when she gets it in summer) Dr O - Any thoughts please
Member:
lsweeney

Posted on Sunday, Jan 8, 2012 - 2:07 pm:

I have seen eyes like this, but from allergies. Any other allergic symptoms like hives?
Member:
lsweeney

Posted on Sunday, Jan 8, 2012 - 2:09 pm:

Also, my Arab has had one clogged tear duct in one eye that will swell and weep. I wonder if the dust could have clogged the tear ducts?
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Jan 9, 2012 - 12:47 am:

If it was the tooth, it probably would be one sided. However, if the Norodine (don't know what antibiotic that is) has an eye drying side effect, that, combined with the wind could add up.

You might be able to make a mild ( boiled and cooled ) saline soak. I favor using a clean paper towel or a 4x4 gauze for each soak to avoid fibers from cloths.

The only other thing I can think of, is an ice pack or a bag of frozen peas on each eye, if he will let you, before the soaks.

I live in a sandy windy area. I've seen eye irritations develop occasionally. If you have a good clean fly mask, it might help to keep dust out of his eyes while he has to have the medicine put on and while his eyes are puffy.
Member:
suemc

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 - 6:31 pm:

Thank you Laurie and Lee. Situation still the same really. She is out during day with fly mask but wind has gone now. Although initial swelling reduced, it hasn't gone down any further and inside the rims of her eyes are still red and her eyes look sleepy. No discharge and not tearing. I am using optrex solution as an eye soak to clean them before using the fucithalmic 3 x a day (fucid acid) but they're still not right (day 6 since onset) and Im supposed to stop the fucithalmic tomorrow. She is also on bute (danilon) as advised by vet - I reduced it to half sachet instead of full one today but eyes look a little worse tonight so Im wondering if it's the antinflammatory action of the bute keeping the swelling down rather than the fucithalmic taking away the infection. Would appreciate your opinion Dr O? Thanks again
Member:
lsweeney

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 11, 2012 - 5:56 pm:

Some articles I found:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110807183004AABn7o2

"One thing I notices was the whites of his eyes were red; not usual for him, and being a stalled horse (panic in turnout weirdly) he did not have irritation to his eyes. I later found from the Oklahoma Vet School vets that reddened eyes is a sign of leaking intestines....not gastric ulcers, but intestinal ulcers."

Moon Blindness? My Friesian mare has been looked at for Moon Blindness. She will have episodes where one eye will close, swell, etc., and usually is a result of a fly irritation. So I'm careful with her that she keeps her fly mask on.

The vet also had me worm her with Ivermectin to eliminate the possibility of worm larvae in the eye region. Onchocerca, I believe.



https://www.holistichorse.com/Disease/equine-recurrent-uveitis-the-leading-cause- of-blindness-in-horses.html

https://www.igs.net/~vkirkwoodhp/eru.htm

https://www.helium.com/items/480752-how-to-treat-eye-infections-in-horses
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 11, 2012 - 6:49 pm:

Hello Sue,
This is not uveitis. It does sound like you have a bilateral conjunctivitis but this is not a diagnosis, it is a pathological description meaning inflamed conjunctiva but there can be many causes. The history suggests that some irritant has been blown into the eyes that either is still present or still causing a reaction. Sedation, blocking of the lids, topical anesthesia and a good exam of the eyes for foreign bodies and disturbances of the corneal epithelium needs to be done. If these are all negative treatment for allergies/contact conjunctivitis needs to be seriously considered.
DrO
Member:
suemc

Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2012 - 11:25 am:

Thanks Dr O

I didn't think it was uveitus either. Inbetween my post and yours had another vet out (I have lost confidence in vets where i live but we only have two practices so you have to pick one!) To give him his dues he did dye her eyes witeh green stuff which is more than other one did. Said he could see that the conjuctiva were slight red and that on one eye (the one that was worst initially) had a very slight patch on the cornea. he told me to look but i couldnt see it. Thought it was a trauma injury and said that it may have been when it was windy but that it was healing and was now underneath or something and not on surface (do his comments make sense?)

Then he mentioned that the green dye hadnt come down her nose so maybe duct from eyes to nose had inflammation - mentioned possibility of uveitis' and prescibed Maxitrol. 2 DrOps day one and then one DrOp for 5 days. However, if it's not uveitis and I really do not think it is then is this going to damage her eyes? He did not sedate or freeze her eyes.

They are not too bad at mo and to be honest Im thinking to leave well alone and dont want to stick stuff in that is unnecessary.

Please let me know what you think about this maxitrol. So appreciate this forum and website..
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 - 5:38 pm:

Hello Sue,
Without examining the eyes myself and knowing exactly what he said I have a hard time making such a judgment.

What are the active ingredients in the Maxatrol? I don't use that name brand.
DrO
Member:
suemc

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 - 7:22 am:

Hello Dr O

The active ingredients in maxitrol are dexamethasone 0.1% w/v Neomycin sulphate 3.500 IU/ml Polymyxin B sulphate 6.000 IU/ml. Im afraid I dont know what the IU/ml means.

Her eyes seemed to settle after finished the meds (stopped them Friday) and thought better but then this am squinting again and one eye had a slight bit of gunge like sleep along the upper lid this am which cleared. Both eyes slightly watery now (whereas they were really dry before??)

Very bright day yesterday sunny and frosty didnt put her mask on as I thought she was cured. Bright and sunny today too. No wind

She seems very jumpy in stable at night when I approach her she jumps backwards as if her eyesight isn't right.

Cant see any cloudiness and her pupils are small in the sunlight.

I put something called goldeneye in her eyes today (recommended on several forums and available from chemist) it's used for human conjuntivitis and blepharitis (non steroidal and just contains an antiseptic) and put her fly mask on. Incredibly her eyes seemed to improve within 5 mins!! Not sure what this means for diagnosis!

I have vet due out today but you know my opinion on our vets here... please can you tell me more about the risks of using the maxitrol if she hasn't got uveitus and whether you think we still have conjunctivitis here or something else
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 20, 2012 - 6:10 pm:

Hello Sue,
Pain and discharge as you describe in your last post can be caused by many disease processes including conjunctivitis. What is happening now requires a good exam. Steroid containing antibiotic eye preparations are very commonly used and very effective for inflammatory disease processes without ill effects. Where they are contraindicated is when there is a keratolytic (ulcer forming) infection of the cornea.
DrO
Member:
suemc

Posted on Monday, Jan 23, 2012 - 3:29 pm:

Dear Dr O (and friends)

The different vet couldnt find anything wrong with internal structures of Ellies eyes. I was naughty and didnt tell him I'd had another vet who'd mentioned uveitus. He put stain in - no sign of damage to cornea or any cloudiness etc and he couldnt explain what is causing the conjunctiva to still be slight inflamed. He never once mentioned that he was concerned it was uveitis!! So what was the first vet on about?

Told him I had started on the golden eye human DrOps as they seemed to make her eyes better and though he said I shouldnt use human medicine he wasn't worried by it and said he would ring if when he looked it up he was concerned - he hasn't called. I stopped the ointment a few days ago

This evening when I took off her fly mask (that im using to reduce possibility of wind irritation not for flies as it's winter here in UK) there was some more stringy white stuff in both eyes - not much.. like sleep (but Im sure she never used to have it as much as this before) also she wanted to rub her face/eyes on me.

I'd stopped using the golden eye antiseptic DrOps a few days ago so decided to use again tonight as it definitely seems to calm her eyes.

When I pull down the lower lids to put it in, I am noticing that the inside of these are 'untidy'? I don't know how else to describe them. Instead of the inside being like ours, I can see like bits of light pinkish white/yellow fluffy like skin or some lower eye lid structures coming up from below or behind the conjunctiva. I havent had a problem really with my horses eyes before to ever pull them down so I do not know what they're supposed to look like, but Ive had a quick look at my new horses eyes (washed hands!) and cant see these 'bits' in his - nor is he as willing as Ellie to let me look anyway! Dr O - What are these untidy bits of 'skin/matter'? I dont know if they're bits of her third eyelid or what and cant find any reference to this on your page on eye structures or elsewhere on internet. Can see it in both eyes. Getting more and more worried. More advice re eye structures and what this is please
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 - 10:23 pm:

Sue I am afraid "untidy bits of skin/matter" does not make a description that leads me to any further clarification of what you might be looking at. What do the vets who have examined the eyes say this is.
DrO
Member:
suemc

Posted on Thursday, Feb 2, 2012 - 2:27 pm:

Hi there - back again for help about Ellie's eyes and would appreciate any input from others out there as I cant afford to keep getting the vet out.

Thank you and sorry Dr O - I didn't ask the vet about the structures in her lower eye lids that I was unsure about as when he came he had already put the green dye in when I thought on so it rather put a stain on the matter so to speak. He never mentioned it though so I think they're meant to be there but perhaps just a little irritated which is why they are more obvious.

The situation now is that her eyes are occasionally tearing - took her for a ride Tuesday and it brought on clear tears down her face when I returned (one eye only). It was a cold day, breezy - brought tears to my eyes and to my nose so wondering if Im over reacting about this. Having said that I took my new horse out same day same route - no tears. Her tears did dry up and she had fly mask on today - no wind and no tears.

The thing that mainly worries me is that she is still having the slight discharge. It's like stringy opaque grey/white jelly like stuff - not particularly nasty looking. It is there on her eyeball on a morning when I see her (so I wipe her closed eyes with optrex solution and it comes out) and it is back again in the evening so I clean them again. The amount to give some perspective would put a 3 - 4mm diameter blob on the end of your finger if it was round

I do not think her eyes are particularly swollen now but still get the impression that their not 100% settled.

I decided over a week ago to stop all ointment and other than bathing with optrex solution to get rid of the stringy stuff - Im not using anything at all. No worse - no better.

Is a certain amount of this sort of discharge normal and do some horses get more of it than others? Im wondering about her being stabled having an effect. She was out 24/7 up to end November and in at night since December due to the cold and wind of winter. Stabled on pine shavings and cant see any dust as they're supposed to be dust free, but I have bales of hay in the adjacent stable so there could be an amount of unseen allergens/irritations. Does anyone else have horses whose eyes do this normally? Or do you think there is still some residual infection going on? In comparison, my other horse has the tiniest weeny bit of dried matter in the corner of his eyes sometimes on a morning which is normal I am sure

Certainly from when Ellies upper eye lids were swollen like balloons on that really bad windy day a month ago they are so much better now. Strangely then though her eyes were over dry and no discharge at all??!! I do not want to be sitting on something that isn't right if it still needs treatment

Please can I have opinions. Does anyone elses horse have this mild discharge 'normally' Thanks to everyone
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Feb 2, 2012 - 11:08 pm:

One of mine has much more discharge than my others and gets more swelling too.

Once when he underwent treatment with a lot of oral antibiotics because he had cellulitis, it seemed that his eyes improved greatly for quite a period of time. Perhaps it was just a coincidence.

Interestingly, he has also been diagnosed with having a metabolic problem. A friend of mine had a horse with Cushings who had very messy eyes. Can't help but wonder if there can sometimes be a connection due to a suppressed immune system from the metabolic problem.

My Vet says is it as allergy thing and my boy was much better most of the time when we were in Virginia last summer, VS Florida, as my Vet told me he would be.

I have a friend too who has a horse whose eyes have more discharge than normal and she has to clean his eyes every day. When his eye got quite swollen a couple of times, however, he had an infection. If they start to rub due to irritation that can start all kinds of trouble.

I keep fly masks on all of my horses during the day time hours as they have all been more irritable than normal due to flies.
Member:
natalya

Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2012 - 10:24 am:

I had an gray Arabian she was 26, she always has runny goopy eyes, if it’s too windy, too cold, flies, you name it and time to time they swell up. Fly mask all day long break at night. I just cleaned it with a warm water, she seems liked it, and where it was really bad I use over the counter non steroidal Pink eye relief, it was working, at least took the swelling down. Seems like Arabians has more problems especially gray ones, I have brown one, always something wrong with her, she such a high maintenance girl.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2012 - 10:57 am:

Natalya, if your horse had constant runny, goopy eyes, she either had an infection or an allergy. I've had Arabians most of my life (have bred and raised them) along with several other breeds, and the only time I've seen runny eyes was when it was really windy and dust got in the eyes, or there was infection. Many of my Arabians were gray also.

As a breed, Arabians are pretty hardy. If there is always something wrong with your current horse, and there was always something wrong with your past horse, I would review your management practices.
Member:
natalya

Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2012 - 11:36 am:

Do not get upset, I didn't mean it on a bad way. I love Arabians, my horse who past away last year was a risqué horse so is 2 current ones. She was gray and full of melanomas, we did some major surgeries on her, she did has allergies and very sensitive skin, so is my QH-paint is too, she is white. My current Arabian she just so curios, always get herself in to trouble, she has all kinds of bumps, swellings, ulcer, fix one another started. Maybe because they were in a bad shape in a beginning, I don't know how to explain it, I'm at a vet all the time with one or another, I can’t afford to buy expensive horses I get rescues, don't pay much, fix them ,give them another chance in live and they are great horses. We love them anyhow. And I think my management is pretty good considering everything :-)
Member:
suemc

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2012 - 9:15 am:

Hello Vicki Z and Natalya. Thank you for your feedback about your horses. Natalya I know what you mean about looking after your horses like they are your babies - but then still one problems after another! Mine have the best possible care, always they come first and yet people who don't look after theirs - and there are many - never seem to have issues. Not that i'd wish issues on anyone

I have decided to get vet out for a third visit. Have to wait till Tuesday as I dare not have another day off work or I'll get the sack. Not having the vet who just gave me steroid DrOps without any diagnosis! I refuse to put steroid DrOps in when there is no evidence of uveitus. After the £8,500 vets bills I spent trying to save Copper (the horse I lost aged 11)I really could do without Ellie having eye problems. She's always been so healthy, but I am now convinced there is something wrong. More greyish coloured gunk in them this am. I cleaned them with luke warm tea and though she liked it - the lids actually look a bit swollen this afternoon now as well. Arrrrgggh!

Im using fly mask during day as precaution and also if windy I leave it on in her stable at night because she sticks her head out.

Dr O - the messy bits that I mentioned when I pull down her lower lids I have determined is actually more gunk sitting there that hasn't reached where you can see it! So there is more of it than I thought.

If we do go back to the steroid DrOps(dexamthasone) how can the vet be certain there isnt a fungal infection which it would worsen if there was? He checked for ulceration of cornea with the green dye but that's all. I dont trust the vets at all here so I need to know how to eliminate this possibility from this forum please
Member:
theresab

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2012 - 10:40 am:

Interesting, my old gray Arab had the same gunky eye problem. His was determined to be allergies that would flair up every spring for about 3-4 weeks. My vet recommended warm compresses to help make the gunk fluid and rinsing with saline to get the gunk out. Most important was to keep the fly mask on him during that particular pollen season. It seemed to help but the only thing that cleared it was a bit of time.

Have you been unseasonably warm or wet or something that would inspire an early bloom in something she would normally have summer issues with?
Member:
frances

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2012 - 11:09 am:

Hi Sue,

My mare is prone to eye problems too, and had an operation some years ago for entropion (congenital condition where lower eyelids turn inwards as they grow) which wasn't really successful.

I use artificial tears once a day to soothe her eyes, recommended by vet, and when she occasionally seems particularly sore I use DrOps containing dexamethasone + an antibiotic for 3 days. I too would not want to use cortisone alone, but the vet assures me that the combination with an antibiotic is nothing to worry about, and it makes sense to me.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2012 - 1:11 pm:

Sue, You are correct to be concerned about the possibility of a fungal infection!
Member:
lilo

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2012 - 2:04 pm:

Wishing you good luck. The last time my gelding had a problem with his eye (he is prone to it, and has had his tear ducts flushed at least twice) I kept a fly mask on him day and night even though there were no flies. I did it so he could not rub it - apparently it was itchy. Cleaned his eye daily with warm water and I got lucky - it resolved after about 10 days of this treatment. I was ready to call the vet and have him examined, but it cleared up. Eyes are tricky, however. Hopefully you will get a diagnosis the next time.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 5, 2012 - 8:29 pm:

Sue have the nasolacrimal ducts been checked for patency. When they do the florascein stain do they check to sure it comes out the nostrils opening?

There is no way to be 100% sure there is not a fungal infection. But if there are no signs of corneal trauma it is very unlikely. You need to quit using all kinds of unapproved remedies you may be doing more harm than good. If you need a eye cleaner get an approved eye wash. I see no reason you should not follow your veterianarians recommendations but if you feel there are endangering your horse you should get a second opinion from a veterinary ophthalmologist.
DrO
Member:
suemc

Posted on Thursday, Feb 9, 2012 - 8:01 pm:

Hello everyone - thank you all so much for your input to this. I really appreciate knowing of other's eye problems to try and compare to Ellie's

TheresaB - not unseasonally warm - it's freezing here in UK! However when this started we'd had bad winds for many days - I mean really bad (Our spare mobile stables blew over on the day her eyes started - nowhere near her so not the cause!!) I came home and her eyes were really swollen. They weren't discharging then though - the discharge started after the swelling had gone down?? maybe the irritation just hasn't settled?

Well vet came on his third visit. Was glad (in a way) that there was discharge to see and he poked at it and then examined eyes again with florascein. He did watch for it coming out of nostrils - we waited 15 mins as thats what he said to do before looking. One started coming out nearly straight away - the other eye took longer and not so much stuff came through. He doesnt think nasolacrimal glands need flushing based on this.

He has said we need a plan!! Has decided to go back to the same antibiotic as before - fusidic acid based (non steroidal) although he did consider this and decided against for now for 7 days and also to change bedding from shavings in case there is any allergy going on. I cleaned and hibiscrubbed stable and rubber mats and changed to an oil seed rape based bedding with eucolyptus - smells lovely.

Started this therapy two days ago. Not really noticed a difference in discharge - possibly slightly less not sure as cant tell what is the antibiotic coming out of corners and what is the discharge. No tearing at all - just this slight mucoid/white discharge which is more than just the tiny crusts that other horse gets normally

Dr O - Can I question your knowledge please - Tonight when it was really dark, I looked at her eyes with bright light and compared it to my three year olds eye reaction. Ellie's pupils in the dark do not react so much or as quickly to the light and stay quite big even with the light from my torch shining right at them!! His go quite small and narrow quite quickly. Ellie doesnt seem to mind the torch light though - just obviously closes her eyes a bit. That said I dont think she likes the bright sunlight as she half closes her eyes at it (fly mask makes her more comfortable)I have read that uveitis can cause smaller pupils (constricted) but what about bigger slowly reacting ones? Vet did look with a light too but the stall wasn't that dark so I doubt he would see this like I have.

Also the other thing I have noticed is that she seems to get more stuff sticking to her eyes as if the fluid is a bit stickier than normal. e.g loose hairs/eye lashes. I see them stuck to her eyeball and then they come out with the discharge n corners of her eyes. Never see this in my other horse??

The next stage will be taking her to their clinic for a more detailed and expensive exam or ignoring it and hoping it goes away. She gets very stressed away from home and all this started after boxing her to the dentists for a tooth out which took two hours of stressful loading some weeks ago. Stress seems to have so much affect on her health so I am reluctant to box her again unless things deteriorate. Wish i could get a better diagnosis at home!

Thanks again to everyone and Dr O thanks for your feedback. In answer to your points - Vet hasn't seen any sign of corneal trauma so if we do end up going down the steroid route hopefully it wont worsen anything - would appreciate very much your further answer to my two questions to help me in my own mind about things and where to go/decisions next if doesnt resolve.
Member:
suemc

Posted on Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 - 10:16 am:

Hello friends - Dr O

Well today was interesting. The usual slight (but more than would be normal) mucous discharge was present and when I put the antibiotic in, I noticed a foreign body appear across one eye ball. It was like an unusually thick eye lash. I opened her eye and it was stuck inside lower lid so I teased it out with my fingers and investigated. It was actually a very fine eyelash that was covered in slightly hardened mucous. I guess it must have been in a little while. When I looked closely at the eye I could see a few more hairs stuck to her eye. Hopefully they will come out on their own

I am now starting to wonder if it's these fine loose hairs in her eyes that is the cause of the whole problem. Why does she suddenly have them in her eyes though? I have had her 20 years and never this problem.

Dr O - could these loose eye lashes/hairs in her eyes be causing this discharge? Horses can't remove eye lashes like we can! Cant understand why there seems to be so many getting in. Maybe she has finer lashes? Even when vet came (first visit) I remember there was a loose lash on her eye and when he saw it he mentioned that at first he thought something was on her cornea and then said - oh it's okay it's just a loose lash as it's moving

Opinions greatly appreciated
Member:
suemc

Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 - 8:18 am:

Well I am feeling quite depressed about Ellie today. Her eyes are puffy and as well as the mucous and fine hairs that keep getting in her eyes, I have also noticed that for sme reason when she closes her eyes, the upper lids dont meet properly (maybe due to the inflammation?) and so her upper lashes sort of touch her eye. They also seem to point downwards worsening the problem (I have read about ths somewhere I am sure) No wonder the're sore. If the vets dont know what is going on though what the heck am I supposed to do now?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 - 3:15 pm:

Hello Sue,
If you don't want to follow your veterinarian's advice because you think it is suspect, you should get a referral to a veterinary ophthalmologist. Yes any foreign body including eye lashes, fingers, or chemicals (all things that I see in the above posts having been done) can cause irritation.

I couldn't figure out what the other two questions you reference above to have answered.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 - 10:18 pm:

Dr. O is certainly right about seeking the opinion of an eye specialist, if you can find one.

What you said about the eyelashes pointing downward worries me as that is what happens with Uveitis, but perhaps it does with other "itis" eye conditions also.

Hope that you can find some answers quickly.
Member:
suemc

Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2012 - 2:39 pm:

Thank you DR O and Vicky. Hoping it's not uveitis in both eyes at same time!

I have already looked up equine opthalmologists in the vain hope that one lived next door!! Not so - they are a truly a rare breed here in the UK. To see one I'd have to get a referral from the vet and the nearest is at the equine hospital over two hours away. The one which put my beloved Copper to sleep (catastrophic lami caused by vet prescribed dexamethasone) so I can't face going unless absolutely essential

So what I have done is to ring my former vet (one who I trust - 22 years equine vet who I used up to moving areas four years ago and I never had cause in the 20 years I used him to doubt his judgement) He has said he will see Ellie even without the other vets referral as long as I take her to him. Only day available is Friday. No leave left at work but hey ho they'll have to deal with it as my horse comes first. The whole thing depends on whether i can get her inside our trailer as she's only ever boxed to see the dentist. 6 weeks ago it took two hours and then the dentist took a lower loose tooth out so I doubt she will want to repeat it (I still wonder about some connection to this as its a funny coincidence that the eyes started a week after and she has got gum disease which isn't getting better hence the loose tooth) Anyway fingers crossed we'll get her to my old vet and without too much stress for her or us. Sedalin (ACP) ordered!
Member:
frances

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 - 8:52 am:

Good luck, Sue.
Member:
suemc

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 - 9:59 am:

Thanks LL - Im back on site today as you will not believe this! Decided to try and ignore her eyes and take her for a nice little gentle ride. She hasn't been out for two weeks due to snow. She's always been highly strung (arab) and two horses passed her afterwhich she jogged and wouldn't settle. ALmost home and wham - azotoria! She's had it a few times before and the last was about 4 months ago. Not sure how she'll be on Friday now or whether it would be damaging to put her through the stress of loading. She can barely move at mo. I just cannot believe it. After all the effort to get my former vet to look at her. feel like crying
Member:
helenw

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 - 10:06 am:

Hi Sue MC, you certainly are having a horrible run of bad luck with your horses. I would certainly ask your vet to rule out entropion as it is very painful (although I would have thought you would have seen copious tears on Ellie's face if this was the case). One thing did make me wonder - you say her eyes seem a bit DrOopy and slower to react to light. I wonder if she has got some neurological problem which could be causing this. Nerve damage perhaps? Years ago my old girl banged herself just above her eye on a redundant salt-lick holder that I hadn't removed when we moved into that stable, and it left her with a very DrOopy, half closed eye for many months. Eventually it did go back to normal, but when she was tired it didn't blink very readily and that lasted even longer.

And now azoturia. Lets hope it is your third dose and final one of trouble. Perhaps the cold weather didn't help. No doubt you have cut her food down to hay and not much else already. Check with your vet that it is ok to move her by Friday though.

I'm sure the journey will be fine (when you do it!). I had to take my "I'm not going anywhere near any ramp" girl to Leahurst back in 1998 and we had to have a large volume of diazepam (can't have ACP/Sedalin) but even with that washing around in her, as soon as the engine started so did she - trashed the inside of the lorry!! But we did made it there and back.

I shall be polishing my lucky horseshoe on your behalf :-)
Member:
natalya

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 - 10:21 am:

Oh Sue, please don't get too stressed out, you know something will always comes up, when you think you at a edge, somebody will give you a hand. It’s always like this when you think you hit a final point of your stress level. She will be OK. You have a couple of days till Friday. Maybe vet would be so kind and make a trip to your place? Good luck, I will pray for your horse and you.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 - 4:51 pm:

So sorry that you are having such a time with your horse and hope that things come around soon so that you can get things resolved.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 - 8:54 pm:

Sorry to hear about your latest trouble. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Member:
frances

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2012 - 1:30 am:

What really bad luck. How is she today?
Member:
suemc

Posted on Thursday, Feb 16, 2012 - 5:16 pm:

Hello all and thank you so much for your wishes and advice

LL - I am hopeful that she did not have a very bad azoturia attack this time as yesterday she was moving about okayish and today she is only a little stiff (she is on low dose bute) The last attack was worse than this. Good job we were almost home when it started

I think we will try to get her into box tomorrow because after all the effort to get my old vet to see her, I don't think I want to back out and then struggle to get a new appointment. He deals with racehorses for a big racecourse in the UK now as well as his own clients so I know he has his hands full. Im going to give her the ACP and just hope we can all cope with the stress. Maybe I should have some too!! joke. If she gets really upset and I think another attack due - then we'll have to stop but fingers crossed.

Regrettably Natalya I tried everything to get the receptionist to pursuade my old vet to come out but there was no way... I even offered to donate to the rescue horses he is involved with. Will still do this if we get her there tomorrow. Thank you for the advice about the stress! I will try!

Helen - keep polishing the lucky horse shoe please! Not just for me but for everyone with horses who are having a bad time of it and looking through the posts some worse than me and mine. I would love to give her only hay but because of her poor teeth I have been feeding her a mash of high fibre pellets and chaff 4 x a day plus winter daytime grazing and hay if she wants it (she struggles to chew it) In addition to the stress of her losing her best friend and gaining a new one I am sure that her diet necessity has contributed to the latest two sudden attacks of azoturia but to keep her weight up in the winter Ive sort of had no choice, she is very fine as it is. I agree with you about it though and I have reduced the pellets since the attack and tonight and in the morning before we start the loading process, she will get just damp hay.

LiloB - thank you - In comparison with what we went through with losing our Copper, I guess this is nothing and should be sortable - but we could just do with a rest from horse health problems and I just can't believe it. We've always been able to rely on Ellie being healthy and well! I guess it's her age catching up on her.

Anyway thanks everyone again. Please let her go in the box nicely tomorrow!!!!
Member:
lilo

Posted on Friday, Feb 17, 2012 - 3:55 pm:

Fingers crossed!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2012 - 9:11 am:

I am sorry to hear about your latest troubles, the problems just will not quit it seems. We do have extensive information on both of these subjects. For the rhabdomyolysis (azoturia) check out HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Muscle & Tendon Diseases » Rhabdomyolysis: Tying Up, Shivers, PSSM, EPSM. For the problem loading see HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavior and Training » Trailer Loading a Horse.
DrO
Member:
suemc

Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2012 - 5:04 pm:

Thank you Dr O and friends

Amazingly, we managed to load her within half an hour and it wasn't too stressful. Bet it was all the good wishes! It was the usual two man job with a foot at a time lifting method plus the essential sedalin dose! Not conventional I am sure Dr O but it works for her! Once she's in she really doesnt mind. There is a window at the front of the trailer that we can see her through when driving and she was as good as gold. We'd allowed ourselves two hours to load her so ended up at my former vets over an hour early.

He's brilliant! He looked at her better eye first and said the discharge wasn't really concerning but then when he looked at the one that has always been the worst, he said it did have too much unpleasant gunk in it. He examined her eyes. Showed me some red blood vessels on the whites of both eyes under her upper lids leading to the iris and said that although they can be indicative of uveitis, he didn't think in Ellie's case that they were bad enough to actually diagnose it from just these alone and that there was nothing across her pupils or something. He did a florasecein stain test and when it didnt come down her nose within a few minutes, he sedated her and flushed her ducts through her nose. A plug of gunk came out of the worst eye but nothing from the other. He then did a second florascein test but still no stain down her nose. He said the ducts were clear as the fluid was coming out through her eyes okay and that the little hole where the tears drain into sometimes gets inflamed if irritated -hence the tears and mucous cant drain properly.

His view on what he has seen is that the gunk doesnt appear infected and that her eyes are suffering from a cycle of irritation, rubbing and more mucous so more irritation and so on. He cannot be sure about uveitis but he doesnt think so. Said she had a cataract forming on the best eye and two other things on or under her cornea (he did say what and Im usually good at remembering but i cannot) Said the cataract wasn't connected to the problem and probably down to her age. Whatever was on or under her cornea he wasn't concerned with I just wish i could remember what he said.

He says we need to calm the irritation and swelling and as I am a little anti steroids, he has prescribed an NSAID - Ocufen - active ingredient Flurbiprofen sodium as a topical solution. It's in little vials one to each eye for ten days. Started last night and after today's dose I think her eyes are opening up better and didnt seem as much gunk in the worst one.
I have read up about the drug and it is used to treat inflammation including uveitus so I guess if it is that (and he didnt think so) then we are treating it by default anyway.

It was great to have a vet looking at her who I trust and who examines properly and who gives information that sounds right. Was a little embarrassing repeating the foot lifting loading method to get her home - but hey ho

I just hope it clears up now.

Thank you everyone - will let you know.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 - 11:56 am:

Sounds promising. Good luck!
Member:
frances

Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2012 - 1:58 am:

What a relief that you could get to your old vet, and that he found nothing too alarming. The Ocufen sounds very interesting as an alternative to steroids.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2012 - 4:02 pm:

Sounds like progress Sue.
DrO
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