This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Respiratory System » Discussions on Respiratory System not covered by the above »
  Discussion on Odd Facial Swellings; Sinusitis or Guttural Pouch Infection
Author Message
New Member:
wolfie99

Posted on Saturday, Jan 28, 2012 - 3:35 pm:

Hello Dr O and others...My 9 yr old gelding developed unusual swelling above the chin about where a curb strap would lie. He had not been ridden so trauma was a non-starter. No halter in stall or pasture and no trauma or anything that looked like a bite. He is pastured in a small pasture alone. He also had a small swelling behind where the top of the bit would be. No swelling in lymph areas where strangles usually presents. Vet called, did a culture. No temperature. Slightly runny eyes and nasal on both sides, but clear and no smell. He said did not think was strangles, so prescribed Banamine for 3 days for swelling and uniprem daily for 10 days.

(also no other horses on place sick...and this horse has not been away and we have no new horses that have come in over the last two months)

Nasal and eye discharge went down to almost nothing, and the swelling near the mouth went away after 3 days. But on the 4th day swelling started along the cheek bone where it joins the neck at the top of both sides about 1.5" X 3". This stayed the same until the end of the uniprem, then the swelling quadrupled and included the flat part of the cheek as well. This was the first time the horse presented with lethargy, but still no fever, and still eating and drinking very well except seemed to swallow often, like something was bothering him.

The initial nasal culture(unknown medium) done early was a negative for strangles. Vet sent me home with Penicillin G, 2 X 15ml per day IM, and 1000 lb Banamine dose for three more days. After 24 hrs the swelling is down about 25%. He is scheduled for a scope on Monday.

My Vet is a smart young kid, but an all around farm vet...not equine specialist. Don't think he's ever done a scope in practice...in school maybe ?? I have asked him to culture and we'll do an antibiotic sensitivity test too maybe.

Do you have any advice for me on this test. Things to ask about, or be concerned with? Do the random swellings initially suggest sinus more than just guttural pouch infection? What about the lack of fever? I have just two days until the test...if anyone can help me with some advice I'd appreciate it. Thank you, Jane in Texas
New Member:
wolfie99

Posted on Saturday, Jan 28, 2012 - 5:31 pm:

I just went out to see my horse and he is doing well. (30 hours after first Penicllin shot/ and 30 hours after first Banamine in this latest series.) The general swelling has subsided about 35-40%, so I can now see the guttural pouch swelling outlined again.

But I did notice a small pecan sized and shaped swelling right at that point where the rear lip cups around and joins the jaw. Same place as the prior swelling which I thought was now gone. It is winter (even in Texas) and he is so hairy I might have missed seeing it earlier, so it might have not gone away completely before.

Such an odd place....any ideas? Thanks, jane
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Jan 30, 2012 - 12:52 am:

I've had a baby with a gutteral pouch infection, and the swelling was much higher than where you describe. Your's may be more related to the teeth or the sinuses.

Please let us know what the scope shows. I'd certainly continue with the Banamine or Bute, and Penicillin. How is his eating and drinking?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 1, 2012 - 3:51 pm:

Welcome Jane,
This has been more than 2 days since you posted and I was wondering what your veterinarian found. From your posts it is difficult to say much about what these might be other than to say this behaves most like lymph nodes. Note that there are lymph nodes in all these areas. A good reference for swellings is the article HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses. It has images at the bottom that helps put together locations of swellings under the skin and anatomical structures.
DrO
New Member:
wolfie99

Posted on Thursday, Feb 2, 2012 - 9:48 am:

Dr O, Thank you for the referral to the swellings article. I didn't find it before and I'm sure it will be helpful.

Re my horse. He is doing very well. By Monday morning his swelling was almost all gone with the exception of a small hard swelling at the very top of the check where it meets the neck. I took him to the Vet and they scoped him and inside everything looked very good. They couldn't actually get the scope into the pouches, but got a pipette in there and no pus or other signs of infection. Eyes and nose still show a rather minimal drainage and pretty clear.

The Vets suspect a Strep bacteria since he has responded so dramatically to the Pencillin. They said the hard swelling along the cheek line near the ear is a lymph node. They are hard and enlarged a little. They aspirated samples from each side and sent it to Texas A&M for analysis. I've not heard back yet, but will post as soon as we get some response.

Thank you for your help. If its okay to post pics, I will post the swelling pic I took on Friday. Jane
Member:
paul303

Posted on Friday, Feb 3, 2012 - 1:10 am:

Would like to see the pictures, Jane. That's how everyone of us here get to see different things.
So glad to hear things are going well.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 5, 2012 - 8:17 pm:

For help on how to post images see HorseAdvice.com » Help & Information on Using This Site » Uploading Images and Files Into a Posting.
DrO
New Member:
wolfie99

Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2012 - 5:09 pm:

UPDATE The vets took two samples from either side of his jaw in the middle of the swellings by aspiration on Feb 3, and sent it to Texas A&M Vet school. Turns out they were both salivary glands with no infection, no disease process and no cancer. At that point, a week after starting the twice a day penicillin, the vets said no reason to have him continue. They offered no explanations and when I asked about allergies they acted like horses never get allergies. I'm afraid Vet schools in TX may not spend much time on anything that can't be treated with antibiotics!! I looked up swollen salivary glands and came up with the terms, grass glands, and grass mumps. And pictures that look just like my horses problems. They all seem to point to some kind of allergic reaction.

Anyway, after 4 days, and allowing him out in his little pasture that has almost no edible grass...but no bad weeds either. He started swelling up again. But that also coincided with a whole new stall of shavings which were more sawdust than shavings. So we cleaned out the stall completely of all sawdust....sprayed it down to get out all dust and put in large flake pine shavings.

Three days of Banamine resulted in another return to normal..and then 3 days after that more swelling again, but milder. We are now keeping him inside more (fearful of pasture or grass type allergies)but he goes up and down on a 12 to 24 hours basis. He still shows just a tiny bit of clear eye drainage like you might get in a high wind...or like people get with allergies. No fever, no lethargy...no loss of appetite. He is doing great but still puffing up on and off. Right now I am watching him to make sure the swelling doesn't go up too much. I am pretty convinced its some kind of allergy, but the Vets have no suggestions other than 3 days of Banamine, and Penicillin, despite the results from the tests.

Dr O....if you know anything about this or something that might work like an antihistamine or something, let me know. I'm just glad he seems fine and is not sick..... Thanks for your help. Jane
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 29, 2012 - 9:07 pm:

It sounds as though the swellings are not a primary disease process. Some horses when they graze a lot swell in the head do to the increase hyDrOstatic pressure resulting in passive edema. I do not see a reason to treat this problem as described above.
DrO
New Member:
wolfie99

Posted on Saturday, Mar 3, 2012 - 3:09 pm:

Dr O...I don't think this is excessive grazing. First of all this started in January when he was not being put outside much due to cold weather. He was kept inside for three weeks after this started and he still showed the periodic swelling. Additionally there isn't much grass in the paddocks to graze on, so lots of times, the horses just stand around.

Each time he swelled up he was given Banamine for three days and he returned to almost normal with that treatment. But then 2 to 4 days after the end of the Banamine he would swell up again. This past week he was near normal for 4 days then started swelling again.

Since this started it does not seem to relate to the difference between being in the pasture or not. There seem to be quite a few posts online that describe his condition, and are identified as "grass mumps" which are swellings of the salivary glands like his.

From the tests we know it is swelling of those glands. The Vets said they think the inflammation, from whatever cause, is shutting down the normal drainage to the mouth and causing the fluid to drain into the membranes of the head...thus the occasional swellings on the cheek and along the jaw lower in the head.

The week in Jan when this started there were exceedingly high air levels of cedar, and some local horse people I've talked to say that a horses (and people)sometimes develops senstivity to the cedar after the first year they are here. This will be a year and a half after my horse was moved to Texas.

Have you heard of a company called Bio-Medical Services that does blood serum testing for allergies in dogs, cats, and horses? One woman I talked to said her Vet drew blood and sent it to this lab and they found out the problem her horse was having. But if this testing was legit it seems like more Vets would know about it. ??

If my horse doesn't swell up really badly I am going to not worry. But if he starts to get really bloated again like he was in Feb, I'm going to see about some allergic type remedies.
I can't just keep giving him Banamine every week or so.

I think this posting should be in Allergies instead of Respiratory... ?? Thanks, Jane
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 7, 2012 - 6:04 pm:

Yes I agree the background in your last post makes edema from the head being down for long periods unlikely. I have little faith in the blood tests for equine allergies, they have not been shown to be very reliable and if it truly is the salivary glands it is hard to figure how allergies figure in there. Right now they remain poorly define and unexplained to me and if they persist perhaps a referral to a equine specialist would help.
DrO
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC