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  Discussion on 5 day old foal still won't nurse
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New Member:
sgreenh2

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 11:33 am:

Hello all,

I have a foal who was born 1 month premature and is also an orphan. We have a nasal/gastric tube installed to feed her, and have a nurse mare ready to take her if only she's start nursing! She is strong. She can get up on her own and moves about the stall well. When she's hungry, she roots around at us and makes very small efforts at trying to suck. We've tried several different nipples but she just will not latch on to anything. If we force the bottle in her mouth she freezes up and falls over, fights us, and uses her tongue to push the nipple out of her mouth. We have also tried force feeding her orally with a syringe, and she will not swallow. She just lets it all run back out her mouth. As she gotten older and stronger, we've let her go several hours between feedings in hopes that if she gets hungry enough maybe she'd try to nurse, but she doesn't. My local vets are puzzled and really think she should be nursing by now and are out of ideas. We can't leave the tube in for the rest of her life, so does anyone have any advice on how to get her to suckle?
New Member:
sgreenh2

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 11:46 am:

I forgot to mention in my previous post that we do have the filly on gastrogaurd in case stomach ulcers are an issue, though she's never acted uncomfortable. Also, she urinates and defecates normally.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

We raised one premature foal, started him out with a syringe, then switched to a bottle in a couple of days. He was also approx. 1 mo. early, so I am also surprised this foal does't suckle.

Have you tried coating your finger with formula then sticking your finger in it's mouth and rubbin it's tongue, kind of playing with it? I wonder if that would gradually produce a suckling action?

I would go back to a 10cc syringe and put just a very little milk in her mouth at a time. You can't force it and doing so will make any foal fight. She thinks she's going to DrOwn! If you go VERY slowly and increase very gradually, maybe it would work?

I've also heard of people taking a clean plastic/rubber glove and pricking one finger with needle so just a little milk can come out at a time, and using that for the foal to suckle on. The glove is softer and more natural feeling than a bottle's nipple.
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 4:28 pm:

Stef, how many days in are you, and did the foal have a good suck reflex at birth? Has she been introduced to the nurse mare to give her a chance at 'authentic' nursing? One word of caution about bottle feeding is that you need to be very careful to get the angle at which it's offered right - it should be horizontal and not above the foal's withers - and make sure the flow is low. The last thing you want is aspiration pneumonia.

I doubt that a syringe will get you there, but have had some luck with the rubber glove method Sara describes. It needs to be a heavy glove and well washed to remove the rubbery odor and powder lining.

Many foals that can't nurse for whatever reason have good success drinking from a bucket. They can pick this up surprisingly quickly. Though of course getting her on a nurse mare would be far preferable to raising an orphan.

Best of luck, I know how frustrating it can be!
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 4:38 pm:

Oops, duh, I see from your post title the foal is 5 days old. I have had some luck introducing a nurse mare to foals coming out of ICU up to about 10 days but that is with foals with a decent suck reflex...
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 5:35 pm:

RE: the glove. In a very young, immature and underdeveloped foal, I'd use a sterile medical glove, or one of the disposable gloves you can buy in the box at Costco. With such a young foal, you need to be very careful of germs, and the softer gloves feel more like the real thing and are easier for the foal to suckle. When it is stronger, you can switch to the heaver, clean rubber glove, or a bottle with a lamb nipple - not a calf nipple- on it. Shannon makes a good point with correct angle of bottle. A lot of people also bend the foal's head under their arm, so neck has a slight bend, to make it more like the angle they'd have nursing from a dam.

Why was the foal premature, do you know? Did the mare not develop milk at all?
New Member:
sgreenh2

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 7:51 pm:

Her premature birth is quite a story. The mare got tangled in a high tensile wire fence a month and a half before her due date. She severed all her tendons, shredded the skin to the bone and lost blood flow to the lower limb, hence she needed to be put down. So the idea was to keep the mare going as long as possible to give the baby a chance to be born. We started the mare on cortisone shots to help baby develop faster and were planning to do a c-section on the mare later this week. Well, the mare decided not to wait that long and foaled last Friday. The baby did not have a suck reflex at birth either, but the birth was normal and easy... baby is just very very small. Of course we got some oral IGG and frozen colustrum from last year into her soon after birth, (through a stomach tube) but her igg was still low the next day so the vets gave her an IV and installed the semi permenant tube that's in her now. She is doing so well right now other than not sucking. We even got her out in the yard and she wanted to run around and play with us tonight. We have not yet introduced her to the nurse mare, we are waiting for her to figure out how to nurse first so the mare has a better chance of accepting her. They are stalled so that they can see each other and the mare talks to the baby, so we are really hoping that all works out. Thank you all so much for the suckling ideas. I will try the glove idea tomorrow. At our last feeding she tried to suck more than she ever has.....but soon lost interest. Still, it was an improvement.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 8:12 pm:

Poor mare! What a trauma for all concerned!

If the foal wasn't immediately getting anything, or if it feels it will choke, it will give up quickly. One thing about the soft glove is that is pretty easy, with a little practice, to control the flow of milk. Once the baby is nursing, you can increase the hole size a little, then switch it over to a lamb nipple on a bottle.

Good luck! If the suckling isn't successful, I'd try to start switching her to a pan with milk, then from that to a small pail. Like Shannon said, a lot of times they will drink even when they won't nurse.
New Member:
sgreenh2

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 10:48 pm:

She nursed!!!! Just about 1/4 of a bottle with a lamb nipple, but she did nurse. Then we tube fed the rest of the bottle. Still going to try the glove tomorrow if she isn't nursing more agressively by then. We are trying to use the bucket feeding as a last resort because it will be difficult for us to raise an orphan.( we have 80 mares, 50 of which are pregnant so we're gonna have a busy foaling year) Better to let the nurse mare raise her for us.
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 11:14 pm:

So teach her how to pan feed but keep her in with the nurse mare ....We had to pan feed a colt , but the mom still raised him ... he just could not nurse ... good luck with ALL them babies... please post a picture of your herd and this new one...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them spots..
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 11:14 pm:

AND WHERE IS DR. O ..?????????
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2012 - 11:42 pm:

Yay! Awesome news Stef. Hang in there and don't lose patience. It's a great sign that the nurse mare is calling to her. Nurse mares are wonderful and that is SO much easier than raising an orphan. Worth their weight in gold IMO =) If she has shown the ability to nurse from the lamb nipple I'd keep going with that and hopefully within a day or two you'll be able to introduce her to the mare. GOOD LUCK!!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2012 - 1:21 am:

Yay is right! Keep at it with the lamb nipple! Most foals do good with them once she catches on. Then, you can have her reach under the nurse mare for the nipple, then gradually switch her from the nipple to the mare. I would suggest mixing a little of the mare's milk into the formula/milk replacer you are feeding if that is what you are using, so she gets used to the change in flavors. Sounds like you are on the upswing now though.


And, I'm with Shannon. A nurse mare is worth her weight in gold. We were blessed with a mare that was able to nurse her foal and our orphan until her own baby got too aggressive (he was older and very big for his age.) We couldn't find another nurse mare, so found a miniature donkey to foster our foal. By then he was able to eat foal lac pellets, but she was a life saver in keeping him company and teaching him manners! Any sweet animal in a pinch is better than you having to do it full time!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2012 - 2:52 pm:

We had 2 foals born within 3 weeks of each other, my mare wanted nothing to do with motherhood and we had to raise her foal as an orphan. We started her colt with a turkey baster, and graduated to bucket within days. This little guy (which is what his barn name ended up being ;))would hear the back door on the house open, come hollering and racing to the fence, suck down his milk, and head back out to pasture. We did hold the other mare and let him nurse a few times, she would allow it if we were there but not otherwise. She did let him in her circle with her own colt so that was plus. We had another mare and yearling colt at the same time, they all got along great and the orphan grew up just fine. He's still going strong, must be 18 years old now.

Good luck!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2012 - 7:32 pm:

Hello Stef,
Congratulations on the success with nursing. At this point I would be careful about trying lots of different techniques and instead try to build steadily on what seems to be already moving you forward. I do not find it that odd that you are having trouble getting a appx. 315 day old newborn to suckle and actually believe the foal you describe above to be in better shape, physically and mentally, than many 30 day premature foals.

So congratulations on the good care and progress you have made. I do think having a bucket of clean fresh milk available for drinking is a good idea as orphans often learn to drink from a bucket quickly. The nasogastric tube is a mixed blessing. While it has kept the foal going while not nursing it does represent a bit of a hindrance to normal nursing and does introduce complications of irritation to the tissues it comes in contact with and possibly air in the stomach. If the foal is in good shape and showing real interest in nursing consider removing it as early as possible with the understanding that if inadequate milk intake goes on for more than 24 hours you may need to replace it for another 48 to 72 hours.

I am here Ann but this is not an emergency equine service. We are here to educate and inform in the general sense and our members must take the information and consider how it may apply to their particular circumstance. We do not pretend to be able to give actionable advice over the internet. A physical exam is required for that. We will try to help in every way possible but when immediate help is needed you need to contact your veterinarian and if that is not to your satisfaction then a referral service needs to be contacted.
DrO
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