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  Discussion on Gelding urinating every time we ride
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Member:
stuart05

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2012 - 7:05 pm:

Hi, My 12 yo TWH gelding has started to stop on trail rides and act like he has to poop or urinate. Often he will poop during the ride but now he is stopping and putting one front foot out like he is going to stretch to pee but doesn't. Eventually he will find a spot he likes and urinates. It seems like a normal amount, not too much or too little. I have not noticed him drinking any more than usual or urinating any more than normal. He has had one other development too. He looks to be scratching around his anus but not his tail, under his tail on either side and below. He has some red scrape marks on mostly the left side. Last Friday I dewormed him with ivermectin even though he was not due until next week. I recently had my old 29 yo horse fecal tested since he was losing a little weight and his was negative. Other than the scrapes on his butt and the stopping while riding, he is acting and eating fine. No temp. I had the vet out today and he felt along his back to see if he had any sore spots and we couldn't find any but recently when I am cinching him up he will flatten his ears, that is new too. The vet took a fecal sample and I was lucky enough to catch some urine (but not in a sterile container). I am waiting to hear back on any findings. I am wondering what this may sound like and what direction to go in. Thanks
Member:
natalya

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2012 - 10:22 am:

Our 13 year old Arab mare always, I mean always urinated more on a trails or arena. Sims like every time it’s time to work she got to go. On a trails we allow her but on arena our trainer sad no, she can pee when she is done. And she is fine with it. But cinchy and pinning years could indicate ulcer. The same mare has ulcer history too, and when she gets more irritable its time for Gastro guard. Thou I didn’t know if urinating on trails connected to ulcer. I use to have mare who will scratched her but a lot, she had pin worms. When we clear it up scratching stopped and never returned till her last days. Hope you find your answer.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2012 - 11:15 am:

Hello Kim,
Considering your description of the butt scratching I would consider pinworms and they can be difficult to diagnose on fecal alone, for more see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Parasites and Worms » Pinworms (Oxyuris). As to the urination problem certainly a thorough exam of the whole urinary system including possibly a ultrasound of the bladder is in order. Something else to consider is mild colic which often presents with the appearance of a horse trying to urinate. To test this hypothesis try a preride treatment with oral Banamine and see if this prevents it.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2012 - 8:33 pm:

A friend of mine has been having this problem after a case of impaction colic.

The Vets at the hospital suggested the possibility of ulcers or kidney stones.

The horse is stopping along the trail and urinating several times on each ride.

Also, he is passing manure but not in significantly large amounts at one time so somewhat worrisome.

He had a large worm load along with the impaction colic so is having a fecal test next week, 30 days post colic.

Hope you get to the bottom of your horse's problem.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 - 10:17 am:

Frequent elimination can also by a sign of nervousness. Not saying that is the case here, but I ride with a friend whose gelding frequently urinates and also used to stop and pass manure a lot. Small amounts each time. He was healthy otherwise, just had a case of nerves, we think. He does not do that anymore.
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 - 6:54 pm:

Just an update. Fecal came back clean. He has stopped itching under his tail and it is almost entirely healed and disappeared. He continues to just stop on the trail, lift his tail a bit and stand. He only poops once on the trail but it is once every ride. He again urinated on the ride. He seems to do it in the same patch of dirt every time as well. He does not pee more than once or poop more than once. He just stops for a minute and acts like he is going to poop or pee but doesn't, then he finally pees when he gets to the same place on the trail. I plan on getting him more thoroughly checked out, but could he possibly be playing me? knowing that I have let him stop when I thought he need to poop or urinate. I also switched saddles today to see if that made any difference and it didn't. I also find it interesting he doesn't do this on the way home.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 - 7:12 pm:

I have seen horses stop and stretch out when I have felt that they were doing so just to "get a break."

There are some who seem to do so habitually without it being any real physical problem other than that they want to stop and stretch their back and rest.
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2012 - 7:57 am:

Another update,just trying different things. Maybe I wasn't clear originally. I work until 4pm. He is out in the pasture all day, free choice grazing. He isn't a pig and takes breaks and naps. When I get home at 430, I feed and then ride about an hour later. This has been when he is stopping and acting like he has to poop or pee. He eventually does both on an hour long ride. We just walk, a little gaiting. The last two rides, I rode before feeding. He again has stopped to poop. Not unusual for him, but again stopped and urinated in the same spot along the trail but didn't seem to want to stop as often. So again not sure if I have a health issue or a behavior issue. I have gotten a little stricter on the stopping. Only letting him stop when he is already started pooping and only allowing him to stretch and urinate in his favorite "spot". There is nothing remarkable about the quantity of the poop or pee, it seems normal. The rest of his behavior is normal.
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2012 - 1:59 pm:

Kim the pinning ears when being cinched up says saddle fit issues or pain to me. I would check for sensitivity/sore spots immediately after a ride, then a couple hours later, then the next morning.

If it weren't for that I'd say let him pee at his 'favorite' spot and the rest of the time insist that he keep moving. Horses don't need to stop walking to poop though they will if you let them =) But if you have saddle fit issues he might be stretching out to try and adjust the fit or move out from under the pain? Like a person trying to adjust an ill fitting back pack. Just a thought.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2012 - 6:23 pm:

I missed that about the ear pinning and agree with Shannon.
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2012 - 7:22 pm:

Thanks for the feedback, but saddle fit is very important to me. His saddle is custom made by dixieland gaited, I did the fit form thing and tried on about 8 steele trees and took pictures to determine the best fit. Went with the flexible gaited tree that fit him extremely well. The other saddle I occasionally ride him in is an M&W lite trooper saddle. The way it sits on him I can't imagine it causing pain. The vet went up and down his spine and he did not react. He only pins his ears when I tighten the girth. I was just thinking it was his long winter coat hairs getting caught up in the girth. So perhaps I will try bareback for a couple of days. I am out of town all next week so he will have an entire week to heal up if it is a soreness issue.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2012 - 7:48 pm:

Kim,

I have gone the custom saddle route (from a certified saddle fitter) for thousands of dollars and found it to be rather unsatisfactory in the end.

A horse's back changes over time and the saddle fit of a custom saddle right along with it.

Wish that I had my money back!!!
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Sunday, Apr 1, 2012 - 3:00 pm:

update, have ridden bareback and with two different saddles that I do believe fit well. I use a diamond wool pad. He isn't acting cinchy anymore. He is still stopping every now and then and will always poop once and now pee once on every ride. These rides are only an hour long. He has started itching his butt again. Not the tail head, under the tail and on either butt cheek. I will have my vet out this week again but I am stumped. I also dewormed with zimectrin gold about 10 days ago just in case there was a tapeworm issue. His behavior besides the butt scratching and the stopping on the trail are normal.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Apr 1, 2012 - 3:45 pm:

I think most horses will poop/pee once during a ride, even a short ride. I don't rind that unusual at all. The itching tail and butt would bother me more. No midges (biting knats) coming out? Can you see any sign of pin worms? Are his sheath and penis clean and no bean? Only other thing I can think of would be dirty, dry tail head or possible sarcoid growing on underside of tail, which I'd guess you'd have spotted by now. Maybe he's just trying to drive you crazy? :>)
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 3, 2012 - 9:16 pm:

Update...appears the itching/rash on butt and cheeks is worse. I didn't ride today. I will try to upload a couple of pictures of his butt. I took the pictures after putting some furizone on them, hence the yellow tinge. Any ideas?left cheek
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 8, 2012 - 2:31 pm:

Kim check out this article on pruritic skin diseases, HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Hair and Coat Problems / Itching / Irritated Skin » Overview of Pruritis: Scratching & Rubbing.
DrO
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Monday, Apr 9, 2012 - 8:47 pm:

Thanks Dr. O, could the pruritis affect his behavior under saddle? Also had blood work done last week, everything was normal. Was gone overnight last night and came home today to notice it looks like he has been itching his sides, flanks and as far back as he can reach on his hips. Should I assume this is itchiness or a sign of pain in the back or gut? The vet also listened to his gut and he was fine. He continues to eat normally and poop normally. Would the best first effort to be to try and calm the itches? or investigate pain further or digestive system further? I am trying a non-ivermectin wormer tomorrow but the vet doesn't think pinworms because none of the other horses on the property are exhibiting pinworm infestation behavior.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2012 - 8:05 am:

I think pruritis is a more likely explanation of the symptoms you and images provide. Certainly a pruritic horse might be more agitated under saddle. The decision to where further diagnostic work should be done will need to be based on you and your veterinarian's assessment of the situation. I have had good luck with double doses of pyrantel (Strongid) paste for resistant roundworm infections.
DrO
Member:
stuart05

Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2012 - 11:30 am:

Update - my gelding has stopped scratching his butt. So whatever it was, he is over it.

I wanted to respond back to the people that suggested saddle fit as part of the stopping on the trail issue. I finally figured I'd try a horse chiropractor that someone recommended to me that also is considered an expert on saddle fit. The minute she looked at my gelding she said he looked like he has a saddle fit issue. It turns out my trooper saddle was sitting up against the back of his shoulders. Since I had mostly been riding in this saddle since I have neck issues and it's my lightest saddle, it seems his behavior did coincide with the saddle change. However, and thank goodness, the custom saddle I had made for him actually does fit him but she did recommend rigging it center fire which I had done originally but then got lazy.

I've ridden him three times since she was out with the saddle that fits and while he has stopped to poop (actually had to), He has not stopped at all and just acted like he needed to go without doing anything and he hasn't urinated under saddle. The chiro seemed to think he was a smart (maybe spoiled) horse and he obviously caught on that I would let him stop to poop and pee and that gave him some relief from the shoulder pain. I guess I will just see if this lasts and make sure I keep checking that the saddle fits. I don't know if the chiro part of it helps but this one was a vet too and she really helped with the saddle fit and explained some exercises to get him happier and rebuild some of the areas that suffered from the poor saddle fit. I'll see how this goes in the long run but it was interesting to have a hands on saddle fitting and really know what to look for in a saddle for this particular horse.
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