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Discussion on Hives
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 27, 2012 - 2:34 pm:
Hello All,
Well I haven't wanted to jinx it, but Brave's been doing super well as far as his lameness goes. He's no where near normal, but he is pasture sound on no daily meds and riding him for about 20 minutes at a walk helps stand his fetlocks/pasterns up significantly.
I'm here again with a question on hives. Brave got hives three weeks ago and stopped eating after 4 days. Vet was contacted, Brave has been on antihistamines for the last 3 weeks. Accupuncture and benadryl helped initially, I took his meadow hay away after the benadryl and accupuncture and the hives got better - virtually gone, then they got worse. He was changed to timothy hay and equine senior (just to get the antihistamines in him) during the period of hives virtually gone.
I've put him on an immune supplement from SmartPak as I understand hives are caused by an overactive immune system.
Brave is irritated, but eyes are clear, he's hungry and thirsty, and wants his food NOW! lol Oh and his poops are normal.
I did move him to the stall next door, about a week before the hives appeared, as I got a rescue in who was recently gelded and didn't want the rescue conversing with the mare in the barn.
I have moved Brave back to his old stall, paddock, pasture as of this last Sunday. As of today, the hives are still there but are fewer and smaller. That gets me hopeful but that has happened often in the last few weeks so I'm not holding my breath.
I'm writing all this to see if anyone has any ideas. I've gone the nitrates in the hay and water route... lol...
I hope you all are well, thanks for any info you can provide!
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 27, 2012 - 2:36 pm:
Oh and we can't go the steroid route as the vet is wary for laminitis concerns. Vet has suggested a $60 bottle of antihistamines... but I'm leaning toward another appt. with the vet accupuncturist first...
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Member:
lsweeney
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 27, 2012 - 3:21 pm:
Experiences I have had with hives:
When I was young, I fed my horses a bunch of supplements, sweet feed, etc. and I believe that the vet told me that the horse was getting too much protein. If not, it was too much of something, so I stopped. My horses now just get hay and a little bit of senior feed to carry some vitamins. They are not heavily taxed, and are fat on this anyway.
More recently, my Friesian mare started breaking out with hives over a summer, and I think she found a new weed in the pasture. There was something with white daisies that started growing. I don't know if this was it. Anyway, I try to keep hay in front of them so that they don't get hungry and start investigating other unhealthy food choices on my 3 acres. She hasn't had a recurrence in several years, so I'm not sure what she was getting into.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 27, 2012 - 3:50 pm:
Hi Laurie, thank you 
Yes it was probably protein, I heard that they could be "protein bumps."
I am on small acreage, so it's pretty easy for me to see weeds, but there is only one area that he's never had access to that he's had in the last month. No weeds there, could it be in the dirt?
Thank you for your input
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 27, 2012 - 4:49 pm:
Hi Aileen. We too had hive problems with one of our stallions. We tried everything to figure out what was bothering him to no avail. Once the autoimmune system gets inflamed it seems to over-react to everything, things that normally have no effect, which makes figuring out what's causing hives all the more difficult. Good luck with Brave! Glad he's doing well otherwise.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 2:09 am:
Hi Aileen,
Glad to hear Brave's doing so well except for the hives.
Re the immune supplement you're currently giving him: won't that stimulate his immune system even more, and make his hives worse?
Just a thought .
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 10:25 am:
Hi Sara, well that makes sense. It does seem as though everything affects him.
Off topic, but the other thing he does is freak OUT when the mare leaves. Bucking/rearing/ cantering in place... Just crazy. I told him to knock it off or he's going to do that and his piaffes and passages under saddle! lol,... I have to wonder though if an overactive immune system can cause anxiety which can then lead to hives?
As of today there is no change in his hives, meaning they are not worse, nor better.
One vet said that I need to remove the offending hay (meadow) but the mare eats the meadow too. I suppose I can move the bales out... that it's inhaled.
That said my main vet said he didn't think it was the meadow...Brave has been eating it for about a year.
LL, I think that's a good question! Vet said the supplement was a good idea but who knows...
Thank you ladies
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 10:32 am:
Dr. O, how do you calm down an over active immune system?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 11:58 am:
I think what set off Mikey was inhaled, but will never be sure. He had been at a new barn for a couple of months, and when fall started the place was surrounded by a yellow flowered weed called Rabbit Brush. You could smell It in the air. Vet didn't think that was the cause, but I do. We canted shavings, used no shampoos etc, nothing made him better. Cold water rinses with apple cider vinegar mixed with water sprayed on seemed to sooth. He had huge hives over neck, chest and back and his testicles were swollen at one point. We tried antihistamines which didn't do much, and finally had to give him steroid injections along with the antihistamines. I hated doing it, but he was miserable. After a couple of corticoid shots he cleared up. He got this way every fall for several years even though we moved him, though after he was moved he wasn't as bad. He has had no problems for quite a few years although we only use "natural products" on him, and keep him extra clean.
With out the steroids and other than the antihistamines I don't know what you can do. I guess you could try eliminating things in his diet and care and see if removing or changing things helps. Did you read on this site to see what information is there? I know I read stuff here but was so long ago I don't recall it. Reading on hives (google) might help you understand what causes them and how the process works. I seem to recall reading that allergy testing like you do for humans isn't very conclusive.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 1:03 pm:
HI GF.... haven't talked with you in so long ... I HATE HIVES have had my share of it with a few of my horses too ... what i found is in my case/ horses / it ran its course and left ... with a mare it came back 2 years in a row same month / season ... i cold hosed her and that was about it... next season waited they did not show up ... phewwww ... Her son got them .. different season ... and flys seemed to bother him as well ... i manage him with cold washes and a fly sheet ... i hope like his mom, that he will out grow it too ..
Good luck ...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them spots..
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 2:45 pm:
Hi Sara,
Yes, I did reread Dr. O's article, and I am in the process of elimination... how long do I give each thing? 1 week? I'm supposed to call the vet with a report tomorrow morning.
Ann! How's it going? Ok, so I should just let it run it's course... I wonder if I can ride him without getting pitched? lol
Hard to see as this was taken in the barn during a storm, but here he is from last week, he's a bit better but hives are still behind the shoulder and the lower barrel:
At his worst:
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New Member:
always
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 4:58 pm:
Hi, I have had an interesting experience with hives this year. We had a spell of warm weather and some gnats I have never seen before appeared--next thing I know, my horse has hives as well as a rain rot/scratches type of condition, which proceeded to get infected! (this, in the middle of the Mojave desert!!! Horse always kept clean, NO mud, rain etc at all, though I did send him out to be body clipped earlier in the year--) Anyway, it was a mess. I thought at first there might be a photosensitivity element at play, so I took away his alfalfa, fed only timothy--and he got worse! Well, it proceeded on to his non-white areas. Anyway, I found that by taking away his timothy hay, (alfalfa only now) and being absolutely meticulous in treating the rain rot/scratches infection, he has not had any more hives. So, you might want to check over your horse's legs/croup really carefully and make sure you do not have any tiny little spots of dermatophilus lurking--Dr O's article also mentions there can be a connection, but it took me a while to figure it out. I now check him closely twice a day, treating any tiny crusty area that appears--wash him with aloedine weekly (or more if I see any crud starting) as well as keep him fly sprayed daily, as somehow the gnats, hives, and dermatophilus seem to be connected. So far, so good. Hives are SO aggravating, good luck!
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2012 - 5:12 pm:
Oh! Is dermatophilus contagious? Off to search. Thank you!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 29, 2012 - 7:56 am:
Hello Aileen,
The most reliable ways to calm a histamine based allergic reaction remain the recommendations in the article and they remain my best advice. I would allow 21 days as the time for eliminating possible causes.
We should comment on your veterinarians fear of corticosteroid use and founder as this remains unfounded.
DrO
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 29, 2012 - 10:17 am:
Thank you Dr. O! I will wait 21 days and not be too worried if we have to go the steroid route.
He does have some dermatophilus on his cannons and on the top of his croup, but not bad. I just curried then wiped off with a wet wipe. Mostly dirt on the croup but the scabs with hair on his cannons. I don't think this would be enough, would it?
He was better still this morning. The hives are still there but not as high... just barely above the surface of the skin.
I'm assuming since he still seems to be improving I don't need to go the expensive histamine route, nor the steroids...
Thanks!!
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New Member:
always
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 29, 2012 - 11:04 am:
Hi, that is great that the hives are receding, hopefully they will go away and not come back. But, you might want to go ahead and treat the dermatophilus--all you have to do is remove the crud (horse does not like this) and swab it with betadine. (Dr. O has a good article on details of this. And yes, it is contagious!)Allergies are weird, it seems like once they are sensitized to one thing, then other things can aggravate it. One item I found interesting is that your horse is chestnut--so is mine. And, in over 40 years of owning horses, the only ones who ever had hives were the chestnuts. Of course I realize that this is not definitive, I am sure vets see them in all colors, however I found a very interesting post in my rather extensive online research where one lady found out (somehow) that chestnut horses need extra copper in their diets, and when she started supplementing her chronic-hives(chestnut!) horse with about 100mg/day of copper, his problems cleared up.(I just toss that out there as a point of interest.)
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 29, 2012 - 12:40 pm:
Ok thank you I will do that with betadine solution. It's been a while...I don't need to rinse the solution correct? Only need to rinse the betadine scrub?
And I will bleach the brushes and curries and check the rescue horse! I have to wonder!
That is interesting about copper and chestnuts, I will keep that in mind!
Thanks to all
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Apr 9, 2012 - 10:37 am:
Good morning all,
Jane may have hit it on the head, that the skin condition could have been part of the problem. I'm guessing the immune supplement and keeping him clean and dry have worked. His hives have been gone now for 4 days. Could be a coincidence, but if he gets them again that will be the first thing I look for.
Thanks!!
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