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Discussion on Desperately need help with the below issues
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New Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 2:15 pm:
Here is a very puzzling and upsetting situation we have with our horse. He is an 11 year old Hanoverian/TB and has been sound every since we got him as a 3 year old, until very recently. He is beautiful, big, and has impossibly high withers, which is perhaps why we are having problems now.
In the past 2 months he has begun shaking/twitching his head occasionally and last month after a show it got so bad he had to be hand fed at eye level, as putting his head down to eat, even at chest level, was too painful. The bizarre thing is he has been very sound, at least he appeared to be to us and our trainer, who has a VERY keen eye for lameness. He takes his canter from the halt immediately, he does beautiful flying lead changes, and he jumps beautifully as well. I do feel he is not as comfortable to the right as he is to the left, but my husband is very much one sided and I try to do flat work with Dominic to keep him even (I do pilates every day to keep from being so one sided). No animal or human is perfectly even on both sides, so that didn't bother us, and it didn't seem to bother Dominic either.
So, back to the story: Naturally we called the vet the minute we realized his discomfort, and we had our massage therapist out too. The massage therapist is convinced it's the saddle, and the vet said he had a muscle pull in his neck, put him on muscle relaxers for 10 days, and advised we bring him back slowly, which is what we have attempted. The vet didn't think it was the saddle at all, and vehemently disagreed with the massage therapist. Sigh.
Unfortunately, even bringing the Dominator back "slowly" (i.e. off for two weeks, then just walking for a week, then a bit of trotting for a week, then finally when he seemed totally comfortable again, a very short canter, which resulted (after the very short canter) in the head tremors, head twitching, and immediate inability to eat his food unless we fed it to him. He does graze, but for some reason eating his food is more difficult. In other words, after all the time off, and then all the time spent "slowly bringing him back", well, it was all for naught after one short canter. Did he need 6 months off instead of only 2-3 weeks? I don't know!!!  )
You will ask about his teeth: We had an equine licensed dentist come out early Feb. so I don't think it is his teeth, although I definitely want that checked out again by another equine dentist. Unless of course, the equine dentist in Feb. did something to mess his teeth up, but my normal vet said his teeth were fine
My gut says it's his spine, and perhaps a lesion on the spine, but I am praying I am way, way, way off in my gut opinion because if it's that the problem he may never be okay again and my husband will quit riding as he is now 55 and has been Dominic's dance partner for almost 9 years and doesn't want to start over (don't blame him at all).
In the long shot it's his teeth/jaw/bit problem I have ordered a bitless bridle (arriving sometime next week) but in the interim I have been riding him in a happy mouth bridle with little or no contact "just in case". That is, until today when I finally cantered him and everything came crashing down again just like before, and I won't be touching him again until I get somebody to tell me what the heck is truly wrong with our beautiful brave boy
We both ride in the newest Wintec "Cair" panel pro jumper saddles and have adjusted the panels to a fairly wide position on Dom as our equine massage person said he needed more room. That, actually, is when all the trauma/drama/etc. started, as the saddle promptly fell on his inordinately HUGE in the height dept. but very thin in the width dept. withers, and rubbed him raw.
Since then, we've tried narrowing the tree again (massage therapist hated that we did that so we widened it again), spent $250.00 on a special pad to protect his withers, (didn't help enough so we added a big huge donut on top of the withers to keep said saddle up). Then, we borrowed some English saddle that cost $5k from a friend that was designed for "impossibly high withers" but it rubs me raw in 1 minute and I hate it (Gregory seems to ride in it okay) but my other horses despise it and my TB mare tossed HER head when ridden in it, so as you can tell we are really a big huge unhappy mess right now. I don't know if Dominic would be okay in it or not at the canter because it hurts me to much to try, and now that Dominic is once again back to zero I'm not about to try the other saddle until a month or more down the road, and my friend wants her saddle back or wants me to buy it for big bucks and I don't even know if it will work ) As to buying a treeless saddle, well, that's another $3500 or more, and once again, who knows if it will work or no? And I could buy a very nice bareback pad for $350.00, but if it hurts me the way I think it will, that ain't gonna work either. Also seems like most bareback pads don't have room for impossibly high withers, bringing us back to the original problem......
Any help/advise/vet references you can give me would be extraordinarily appreciated, but if you can't help I certainly understand. I am really just very desperate to help our big beloved boy, and I don't know what to do.
I probably should just take him to Gainesville.
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Member:
shirl
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 2:36 pm:
Have you thought of having Chiropratic work done on him?? Might be the answer, but this is just a thought.
Shirley
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Member:
always
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 2:58 pm:
Well that is certainly a very upsetting situation. I just attended a very interesting symposium last weekend, where a vet named Dr. Kerry Ridgeway gave the most amazing demos of acupuncture and chiropractic I have ever seen. He has studied equine balance and pain issues extensively, as well as a saddle fitting, because it is so important. He also has a video where he explains his ideas about it. He is located in N. Carolina, here is a link to his website: https://www.drkerryridgway.com/ I think if I were you I would do everything possible to get a hold of him.
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New Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 3:11 pm:
Our massage therapist is also a chiropractor and has been amazing with our horses so yes to the chiro question.
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New Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 3:12 pm:
I will watch the video now and see if this dr is available for consult, tx!,,
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 6:14 pm:
Another suggestion: get someone who does saddle fitting only for a living to help you with saddle fit. While many massage therapists, vets & chiropractors have the basics down for testing saddle fit, it is not enough to finely tune fit. Only an expert can give you expert advice.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 9:02 pm:
Agree with all of the above, he definitely needs a saddle fitter of his own, a saddle that fits him will not fit your other horses (I have the same situation, an impossibly high withered TB and nearly mutton withered WBs). One thought is possibly Schleese saddlery as they will adjust your saddle as your horse changes but they're not cheap. There are also shim pads that you can buy but you need something cutback or that will allow for his wither.
Chiropractors can work wonders, I speak from my own experience - I've had them out for my horses as well and they seem to be happier but who is to say.
Have you thought about having someone out with infrared technology or maybe taking him to a vet hospital that has diagnostic capability?
Could be something neurological going on there, a pinched nerve maybe? That can be very painful... Don't know, just throwing that out there... It might be something simple but it does sound to me like it involves the saddle.
Oh! Almost forgot to mention - you are absolutely right about everyone being one sided, right handed or left handed... Horses are not exempt. They each do have their favorite lead..
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 9:11 pm:
I have a question to ask---> Is it possible that this horse has hit his head recently, particularly the area right behind the skull? Years ago, I had a horse that had difficulty putting her head down to graze and that was the first question I was asked. Your statement about feeding at eye level makes me wonder about that. Just curious and thought I would ask....
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New Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 - 10:14 pm:
We have a very good saddle fitter here in Sarasota and if, after we take Dom to Gainesville (Fl State Univ) providing it isn't neurological, we will be visiting her next.
If Domanic had not been doing so well a month after we laid him off, and then gotten bad again after being cantered, I would worry about a blow to the head. Although.....I guess he could have had a blow to the head that causes issues at the canter, but the Univ should be able to see what is going on.
Interesting that the walk & trot under saddle doesn't bother him, but cantering does. Only under saddle though, he canters fine without a passenger. The added weight of a passenger starts the bizarre twitching.
As to having different saddles for different horses...yes, of course each one of my horses have their own saddles 
However, gregory and I both have the jumping pro saddles by wintec specifically because they are filled with air and have been awesome for us for years now, and they have trees that can be changed as the horses change.
We never had an issue until our massage/chiro had us widen the tree substantially, that is when the pandora box was opened, and now everything is really a mess.
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Member:
canderso
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2012 - 2:21 pm:
Reading through this post it strikes me there is a lot of talk about treatment but not really a lot of talk about the problem. Can you talk more about what the problem is?
Am I correct in understanding he is tossing/shaking his head, at the canter only, when under saddle only? Anything else?
Can you explain what exactly you see that leads you to think putting his head down is too painful?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2012 - 7:06 pm:
Welcome Gal,
I think Cheryl has it exactly right: without a diagnosis (and both those given so far seem highly conjectural) treatment recommendations are without any foundation. We call that "empirical" treatment. Amazingly it works almost 80% of the time, as does doing nothing at all. I have seen dozens of chiropractors at work over the decades and have not seen anything amazing though even in the veterinary literature there are a few amazing stories. However science suggests there is not much amazing out there when it comes to chiropractic medicine. Not the same as saying it is without benefit, just hard to find any strong science to support it.
Assuming your professionals are at their wits ends, Gainsville makes a lot of sense, it is much cheaper than new tack and there are a lot of smart folks there.
DrO
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Member:
divamare
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2012 - 8:38 pm:
Equine chiro did wonders for my mare; however, it was plainly obvious where her problem was (lumbar) as it was knotty and not flat like the rest of the spine. I'd vote for Gainsville first and get some diagnostic evaluation rather than another shot in the dark w/ a chiro which would be a wait and see...multiple visit scenario. Sounds like you have waited long enough, given him enough rest, etc. Good luck and keep us posted. Let's hope it is an easy fix.
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New Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2012 - 9:45 pm:
We lunged Dom today very briefly with no bit no saddle. He was perfectly sound, BUT afterwards once again he had trouble chewing feed but had no trouble eating grass. Bizarre. Also his neck muscle twitches come and go with no rhyme or reason.
Something is wrong, but the symptoms are unlike anything I have ever seen or heard tell of.
I am fearful Wed will come and with it bad news. Gainesville Univ. may not have the positive answers I so desperately want to hear.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 - 7:04 am:
Good luck!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 - 12:24 pm:
Would it be possible to take a video of the neck/head spasms and post?
The correlation with hard feed makes me wonder if this is some kind of partial choke.. I have seen horses exhibit a weird sort of head toss/neck spasm with a partial choke. Does he do it while he is under saddle or after when he is eating?
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Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 - 1:16 pm:
He makes a bizarre twitching movement and it can happen at any time. Started feeding black sunflower seeds can they get caught in his throat and cause choking?
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 - 2:09 pm:
Don't know about sunflower seeds specifically but in theory I guess anything could get lodged in the esophagus if the horse took a big enough bite and didn't chew sufficiently.
Did your vet or anyone see the episodes in action? I would think your vet would recognize it if it was a choke situation.
The horse I'm thinking of had a low partial blockage, and the symptom was an obvious spasming of the lower neck muscles simultaneously with throwing his head up. When it cleared he went back to eating normally.
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Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 27, 2012 - 11:50 am:
Had a friend that had been researching holistic alternatives for her child. She found someone in Sarasota that specializes in Craiosacral Therapy, which, according to the therapists website is:
CranioSacral Therapy is a light touch, manual therapy technique that enhances the central nervous system thereby facilitating the body’s own self-corrective mechanism.
So she came out yesterday and found that Dominic had a very hot spot on his left neck, and after further research (don't know how this whole thing works, but she just kept touching him and looking intent) she told us (my husband, my trainer & her daughter and me) that Dominic had hurt his noodle something which apparently is located on his topline and is supposed to stay there but had slipped or had been pulled sidewise due to the fact his back end was hurting so he had put stress on the topline to compensate and therefore had pulled his noodle loose.
That, of course, isn't exactly what she said, but it was something I had never heard of nor knew it existed, and I couldn't find my iphone to take notes (had the doggone thing on vibrate so it wouldn't disturb the session so then of course I couldn't find it) so noodle is all I remember.
Anyways....probably a long ongoing situation caused by poor saddle fitting?, or could be a recent injury from jumping or playing in the pasture, we have zero idea.
Bottom line is, my 1st holistic person was somewhat accurate, UF was somewhat accurate, and my local vet was the most accurate (he said a muscle was pulled in the neck but the conversation ended there).
So.....a month off, a visit to the local saddle fitter expert after the month is over, not before (don't want to stress him at all) and then very very lightly move forward and pray he is better and stays better.
The twitching/violent head jerks were from the noodle thingey slipping off his topline and pinching a nerve which results in a white hot feeling that causes him to mistrust whatever he was eating/doing at the time, and we think that is why he became scared of his feed.
Very long story, not told very well, sorry, but I hope my next update is to say Dominic is doing better.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 27, 2012 - 3:26 pm:
I think the vet may have meant the nuchal ligament?
In any case, fingers and hooves crossed for a full recovery!
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Member:
rdewitt
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 27, 2012 - 3:43 pm:
oh my golly i am laughing so hard! yes, I am sure that is it. Noodle ligament...oh my. Well, thank goodness I am a realtor and not in the healing profession. Oh dear, well, at least I can laugh at myself! Tx a bunch for the correct word
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 28, 2012 - 6:34 am:
No problem! It's often hard to take in at the time what vets or other professionals are saying because we get so anxious about our big vulnerable babies - I know I do anyway.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 28, 2012 - 6:51 am:
Hello ojg,
If you have the report from UofF I would be glad to review it if you can post it here.
DrO
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 7, 2012 - 8:55 am:
I read your post asking about Previcox . . . Equicoxx.
We have young retired jumper, about 11 years old.
He is loves to work, but without an NSAID he is sore. We have worked out a regimine using the Dog pill cut to 1/4.
His pain is joint related. It has helps him a lot. Not jumping anymore, but he enjoys getting out of the fences on walks and trails.
We had an OTTB that we started in Dressage. He got sore and irritable, an irritated OTTB is not safe. Not joint related, muscles. The vet recommended Naproxen as an aid. Said it was better on muscles than Equicoxx. A couple of weeks, and he was fine. Never looked back. He said that if the Naproxen didn't work, IM injections of Robaxin might be in order. Just until he was strong enough. But, we didn't need it.
Mind you, this advice followed X-ray evaluation of his back and a complete lameness check.
Sounds like you have good professional support. Talk to them about these options.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 7, 2012 - 10:51 am:
Guy, what form did you give the Naproxen? Is there and equine form?
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Member:
lrhughes
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 7, 2012 - 12:38 pm:
A quick note- In 60 years I've had two horses present with apparent neurological issues preventing head lowering and showing depression. Had full vet tests for possible viral/bacterial causes and got no indicators. Final diagnosis was likely hit to spine in withers area. Fed at raised level for a couple months and then turned out for the rest of the year. Both came back fine in the spring. A slightly shortened stride on one and a lengthy practice for regaining collection on the other were the only problems left. Both recovered. Later one was found to have broken 7 vertebrae in the withers. The other was never really diagnosed clearly. Broken vertebrae didn't affect Easy much and he remained a delightful and athletic riding horse on the rail, cross country and working cattle. He died at 19 of EPM (probable possum poop in hay...a far worse problem than the fractured withers as it turned out. EPM is a horrible disease. The other horse, Bravo, is still going fine at 22.
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 8, 2012 - 9:06 pm:
500 mg human purchased from an on-line pharmacy.
I followed the dosage guidelines on this site.
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