|
|
Discussion on Horse with irritated anus
|
| Author |
Message |
New Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2013 - 7:05 pm:
It has been a while since I have posted about my gelding - our previous username was Stuart05. We are continuing to have significant skin issues on his back side. He spent all summer itching his rear end raw and at times his sheath, I posted several pictures. I hoped the cool weather would bring an end to his itching, hoping it was bug related but it hasn't. But here is the catch, it doesn't appear he is itching. It just seems like his skin is constantly irritated below his anus, like he is having an allergic reaction to his own feces. His blood work is normal, he is worm free. My vet recommended removing any molasses from his feed which we have done, another vet recommended Cool Stance feed which we have switched to, I have also added probiotics to his feed and Hilton Herbs Milk Thistle plus. I keep a few whole oats in with it or else he won't touch it. I can't decide if he has a skin problem, an allergy problem, a digestive problem or something worse. His weight seems fine, but his attitude has changed some for the worse. What do I try next?
|
New Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 - 10:55 am:
I took a couple of picture this morning of what I am trying to describe.  
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 - 1:12 pm:
Hi Kim,
I had something similar going on with one of my horses, although not to the same irritation level as your horse shows. It may be more visible on your horse because he is light colored.
My horse was itching and rubbing and no matter what I did it did not go away. My horses problem seemed to be the watery manure dribble(that's the only way to describe it)that happened when he passed manure.The manure dribble seemed to irritate him causing him to rub and it seemed to happen more when he was fed a lot of hay, this also caused a lot of gas that lead to attitude problems.
The following steps were taken that relieved the problem.
1) I cut out everything other than feed and hay. I use a feed called Thrive which is a forage based natural feed pellet that can be fed free choice with or without hay. I feed a grass hay.
2) I upped the amount of Thrive and reduced the amount of hay until I did not have any more watery manure dribbles. This decision was based on my understanding of how the Thrive is supposed to work in the digestive system of the horse. This took 3 days to clear up
3) I didn't feed the hay and the feed at the same time, but spaced through out the day.
This cleared up the dribbles, the gas and the irritation that led to the itching and rubbing.
I had at times tried different things on this horse including probiotics, but those seemed to make it worse and not better.
Sometimes it is simple things that work the best.
take care
Rachelle
|
New Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 - 3:08 pm:
Thanks, I'll check out the Thrive. I have also thought about doing kinda the opposite, taking away everything I am currently feeding him and switching his hay and just feeding him hay for a month and see if anything changes, then slowly add some feed back and see if there is a reaction. Poor guy,
|
New Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 29, 2013 - 4:59 pm:
Just an update, after reading some other posts on Horse Advice I decided to try some Desitin on his butt, of course the generic kind, and now 48 hours later he is almost completely healed. There is nothing new and he only has one red spot left. So is this a clue to the cause or cure?
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 29, 2013 - 6:50 pm:
Desitin is a wonderful product for horse owners in so many ways. Generic sometimes has more of the good stuff in it than the brand name.
If the Desitin worked, seems like the problem may be irritated and sensitive skin.
Pin worms cause terrific anal rubbing but believe that you have probably ruled that out.
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 29, 2013 - 8:43 pm:
I used the generic CVS brand of Desitin. You need to be careful. Look and see what the zinc oxide strength is and if the strength you bought works make sure you get that same strength the next time.
I thought I bought 2 tubes of the same thing, but they weren't, one was much stronger than the other and I couldn't figure out why one worked and the other didn't until I read the ingredients and looked at the strengths.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013 - 4:08 pm:
Hello Kimberely,
If the Desitin continues to work for you consider that moisture is leading to microbial buildup and either a direct infection or reaction to the organisms metabolites. If you continue to have problems with erosions and ulcers I would recommend a biopsy. Pink skin around mucocutaneous junctions is prone to Squamous Cell Carcinoma. SCC would not normally respond to the Desitin.
DrO
|
New Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2013 - 2:21 pm:
Thanks Dr.O,
If this is a moisture problem leading to a direct infection or a reaction is there a cure? or just keep treating with the Desitin? If he is fine with the Desitin but when I stop,the red irritation comes back, is that an indication of SCC? I have the vet coming out next Thursday, the SCC is an interesting thought that I had not considered and I will check up on it more. Do you think any of this is related to his diet or should I just stop going down that route?
Thanks again, 40 years with horses and always something new! Kim and Stu
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2013 - 8:37 pm:
If moisture is the problem, keep it dry. Diet a factor: no. To rule in/ SCC is not a game of consistent history/semantics but a negative on a biopsy.
DrO
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 22, 2013 - 10:16 am:
Hi, I figured I would post a follow up, since I seem to find posts I can relate to but never see a post on what happened next or the resolution.
My gelding continued to rub his butt. The Desitin would help clear up the redness but he still would not stop itching. I tried changing his diet. That did not help. I had the vet come out; she was happy his redness had cleared up since after just seeing pictures she was concerned about SCC. She thought he was showing typical allergies. She commented that in her experience in South Carolina many teenage horses develop allergies, even those born in the state. She gave him a Ventalog shot, we did deworm again with an anthelcide just in case, we used Triamcin ointment, and hyDrOxyzine antihistamine. I also began spraying him with apple cider vinegar to keep any bugs away. In about 10 days he was much better and had considerable relief for another 10 days. He never entirely stopped scratching. After that 20 days he seemed to decline again. More scratching and abrasions on his butt cheeks. The temperature became colder and I could not effectively clean the area and his tail became matted with the Desitin. About six weeks out we gave him another Ventalog. The temperature warmed and I could keep the area more clean. Now about ten days out he is much better again. When he is itching a lot, I notice he is grumpy and easily agitated which is not his normal behavior. He becomes very cinchy and sensitive on his right flank. He will kick out when it is touched. Is that from the allergies?
The vet said we could do allergy testing but it was pricy. I didn't go that direction because I assume it will be something in the environment; pine, oak, dust, grass.
I have started just focusing the creams on his anus. That seems especially itchy. I am a tad concerned that perhaps it is not an allergy but something in his anus. Maybe a lesion or SCC?
Unfortunately the pine pollen came full force last week and now he has a runny nose crusted with pine pollen. So now I am more in agreement in believing it is an allergy.
I have also re-started some supplements for his coat that are high in omega 3s, healthy coat and some rice bran. I have a horse friend in the area that had a lot of success with a specific allergy supplement. I am giving it a month try because it is expensive and I am not convinced that there isn't something comparable that is cheaper.
So that is the update. No miracle cure attm. but I will occasionally post. I am hopeful for my gelding that if it is allergies in time he may improve. When I moved to South Carolina, I brought an older horse that had developed heaves so bad I had considered euthanasia. But with some targeted management, we got that under control and for the past 4 years he has been symptom free and vets cannot hear any abnormal sounds in his lungs. That horse is now 30 years old.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 23, 2013 - 11:01 am:
Thanks Kimberely, perhaps a over the counter hyDrOcortisone cream might help?
DrO
|
Member:
npo33901
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 31, 2013 - 9:42 am:
I don't thin it would hurt if you try -
The best olive oil you can buy.
I clean horses ulcerated nostrils , and any other ulceration with olive oil .......when I burn myself - no water - olive oil.
Poor horse !!
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 7:24 pm:
Okay, next update...I thought I may have gotten a handle on things. I only fed him grass hay, about a cup of alfalfa pellets mixed with hyDrOxyzine antihistamine, an allergy supplement (I know its just expensive stuff that makes me feel like I'm doing something), and healthy coat and probiotics and using topical Triamcin ointment. I noticed that it is not his entire butt that is itchy just his anus and inside his anus. So I backed off the salve to just that area. When I did that, I didn't need to use any desitin as he stopped itching enough to cause a wound. He seemed to feel and act a little better. I coat his belly and butt with apple cider vinegar to keep the biting bugs off. This all seemed to help and his hair started coming back but it was never all the way there, also I noticed when he pooped it would look normal but there was always a dribble of liquid at the end that ran down his backside. I slowly backed off the hyDrOxyzine antihistamine and the expensive supplement thinking maybe he had a food sensitivity. I also have been using Gold Bond anti-itch powder to keep it dry under his tail, Well with the bugs out now he is quite bad again. As a matter of fact, my neighbor had to take care of him for a week while I was out of town and he developed crusty sores on his mid line. Then riding him last week, he pooped and I actually saw a live pinworm in his poop. I was in shock, I have been deworming this horse every four weeks. The vet is out tomorrow morning and I'm not sure what direction to go. Do you think I would have better results going the steroid route or just try to keep doing what we have been doing. My only other concerns is that the "allergy" thing may be masking something else. He always stops and urinates when I ride him. Sometimes he will stop and step out a bit and not pee but it's not like he is straining or can't. When he pees it is a normal amount but I can't help but have bladder stones come to mind. Also some of his symptoms seem closely related to what my friends who have horses with ulcers describe. I will update after the vet, but am truly stumped at this point. Worms? Food Sensitivity? Ulcers? Environmental issues? Could a horse have a SCC in his rectum? Is it time to switch hay? Poor guy, just want him to feel better.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 8:24 pm:
Interesting.
Sounds like he has some pin worms that are resistant to wormers and I have heard of this happening more and more over the past few years.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 5, 2013 - 7:09 am:
If you saw a live pinworm you need to address that. The article on pinworms talks about treating resistant forms.
DrO
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Thursday, Jun 6, 2013 - 6:12 pm:
Thanks Dr. O, when I noticed the pinworm the only dewormer I had was Ivermectin. I know that probably didn't do a thing if they are resistant but how long should I wait before doing something like a safeguard powerpac? Do you still recommend that larvicidal dose fenbendazole (10 mg/kg body weight daily over 5 consecutive days?) Also, I have a 30 year old QH that lives in the exact same environment and has the same worming schedule and has shown no signs of pinworms. Isn't that very strange?
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 11, 2013 - 7:15 am:
When switching to another class of dewormer you need not wait. Yes the Powerpac is good to try. I have also found in some cases a double dose of pyrantel paste (check with your vet since this is extra label use) effective. No matter which you use further observation and testing for efficacy is necessary as your population may be different.
DrO
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 - 8:35 am:
Update on Stu...started the Powerpac and have given 4 doses. The second day noticed numerous dead pinworms in manure piles. I will attach a picture. Although his anus is still a little bit irritated, it appears he is not rubbing his butt. He did have a liquid discharge which I wouldn't call diarrhea, and more frequent gas but he looked like he is handling it well, no colicky behavior or real diarrhea.
My question is in the life cycle of the pinworm, after this treatment when can I start considering that Pinworms can be eliminated from the list of reasons for the butt itching? I'd be thrilled if this was the sole cause of the irritation but I assume he still may have other allergies or bug sensitivities but how long after the Powerpac should (and I know there is no guarantee) the pinworms be gone from his system? So then I can re-address the allergy possibilities. Even in four days I can tell he is less irritable. So even if the pinworm issue isn't the only thing going on, it obviously played a part. I can only say how bad I feel if this pinworm infection has been going on for a year and I didn't make the connection. I just trusted my deworming schedule and he had three clean fecals in the past year and even though I know that pinworms are usually not seen in fecals I just didn't put pinworms high on my list as a possibility. So I will probably post another update in a month to see if we have any success. What are the chances of him being re-infested with these obviously resistant pinworms? I will re-read your deworming article to set up a better rotation of dewormers.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2013 - 2:11 pm:
Hello Kimberely,
I see no reason not to believe pinworms alone were the cause. Yes the location of the redness in the first pictures above were a little bit deep in the perineal area, on the vulva, and you say that he had quit itching but we now should presume your horse is finding a way to itch that area.
Reinfestation is almost certain as the life cycle causes almost universal distribution of the larvae which are resistant to environmental degradation. A resolution of the the irritation and pruritis then a return to itching and irritation almost certainly indicates reinfestation. If you still have concerns a biopsy is still your best tool.
DrO
|
|
|
