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  Discussion on Chronic Left Front Lameness and Shoulder Asymmetry
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New Member:
kholoure

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 5:07 am:

I have had my 7 yr old OTTB 16.2hh Gelding for 2 months. I originally meet him as a donated rescue from Wellington, FL under the excuse that he was not handling show life well and the original owners were looking for a better home then a professional show horse for him. He has an old surgery to the Left Knee from Racing as a 2 yr old, Fracture not sure if it was a slab fracture or not but the surgery was done and he was rehabed and shown on it for 3 1/2 yrs.

After a few days of rest upon his arriving to the Rescue and acclimating I was scheduled to ride him in a lesson to test him out and see what his issues were if any.

Upon grooming he presented with severe sensitivity to the following:
Topline (withers to croup)
Girth
both Flanks
He would pin his ears and bob his head, if you persisted he would lift his leg on which ever side you were on and give a warning kick, if you still persisted he would lunge at you if not for the x ties he would have nailed me more then a few times. Other then those sensitivities he was very good for grooming stood there well allowed all 4 feet to be picked up without issue to be cleaned, allowed me to groom his face and ears no issues. But again he showed some sensitivities when the saddle was placed on his back he would head bob and fidget, when you put the girth on he was very nasty pinned ears and lounging towards you if not for x ties again he would have gotten me. I have always seen sensitive girths on TB's I was always told it was their sensitive skin so I thought nothing of it just that people would just jerk the saddle on and he was just touchy about it expecting it to be jerk harshly. The ride went really well. He is very well trained, consistent trot going to the Left or Counter Clockwise, but when you switched directions and went to the Right or Clockwise he was weird. he felt like his back was stiff and crocked I have never felt that before his stride was even the trained said no noticeable stride length differences between diagonals but I told her that it felt like his stride didn't follow thru thru his back, like it stopped mid back, very stiff and crocked back to the Right but no lameness. He also had an issue picking up the Right lead on a canter we would turn and try to bit my foot queuing for the lead, no bucking or bolting just pinned ears switching tail and trying to bite. After he picked up the lead no issues was consistent no tripping or off balance, no stiffness to either lead very round and supple great speed control could collect him as needed no problems.

After 2 or so weeks at the rescue we removed his shoes and discovered that he is thin soled, so after a few months of abscess after abscess his shoes were put back on and no further problems for the next 6 or some months. He was used as a light lesson horse for advanced hunter under saddle and light jumping. Thru out all this he was also loosing weight and was on 3 qts Seminole Wellness Senior 2 x daily and had free choice hay, but again still no lameness and most of his back sensitivities were gone, brushing was no issue and neither was girthing.

At this time it is about mid February 2013 and I was finally ready to look at purchasing my next equine partner and low and behold the rescue had decided it was time for Trey to be put up for adoption. He was not showing any signs of lameness or behavior problems and was in need of some one on one person time that you really cant get at a rescue. I was happy to say id take him to the rescue and proceeded to get all the paperwork and proper facility approval underway.

After 3 weeks of paperwork and searching of a proper boarding facility I was finally able to move my new horse to a barn locally here in FL. The first week I gave him plenty of time to adjust to 24 hr turnout as he was originally a 24 hr stall horse and was not very used to turnout for extended periods, and to adjust to the new feeding times. During his first week we also had his hind shoes pulled and his fronts trimmed and put back on, the owner of the farm was iffy about rear shoes as if he kicked someone during his recent addition to the herd, there was some fighting going on, he could cause damage.
At this time he was still being fed Seminole Wellness Senior and we were uping his grain to about 6 qts 2x daily to try and get the weight back on him. He was id say a 2-3 on the weight scale and needed about 100 lbs put back on him at that time. My plan was to do light walk/Trot mostly with some cantering and a x rail for 30 minutes for 2 weeks to get him back into the swing of things and so I wasn't working the grain right off him lol.
I have to say the first week went well no problems was riding fine trotting very fluid and good extension, no weird spine stiffness and no pain on grooming or saddling, no issues with leads - picked up both fairly well considering he had had inconsistent work for about 7 months. We started to notice within a fews days of work that his Left Knee was filling up with about a half egg size pocket of moderately firm fluid the more work he did the more fluid would build up, no heat, no pain on palpation, and no lameness we were putting on DMSO daily after workout, some difference in fluid next day but would still be present about a half dollar sized amount of fluid. Noticable increase in fluid after riding with again no swelling, heat, or pain-no Lameness.

After a few days off from our week of work, I came out to the barn to ride -groomed him and tacked him up, I cant recall if he started getting girthy at this time or not . During my ride at the walk he was sound but after about 30-40 seconds at the trot he started Limping on his Left front going to the Left. As we went along he limped harder and harder, I noticed that on the straight he was just about sound but as we curved he would dramatically present lameness then fix himself on the straight again, we walked and reversed direction thinking that that was weird and trotted him to the Right and after a few strides he was just about sound going straight or curving. At that we decided to stop and figured we would see how he was the next day after 1 gram of Bute thinking his knee was bothering him as he had the fluid build up but were also thinking maybe his feet as they were thin. He again had some fluid on his Left knee as was usual for him at that time, no pain on palpation, no heat, no swelling. The barn owner said that he had romped pretty hard during my absence and may have bruised his sole or was just sore from whatever he had done to himself. So we gave him 3 weeks off hoping that rest would be the cure.

Sadly when we pulled him in after those 3 weeks he lost about another 100 lbs and there was no change in his lameness what so ever, the rest had done nothing to help him at all. So we decided to call out the farrier and have him take a look at his feet and have some pads put on the front if he thought that would be a good option for Trey. We also decided to change his feed and put him on 4 qts Nutrena XTN w/an additive of 1qt Alfalfa Pellets and 2 oz of Wheat Germ oil 2x daily hoping to really pack on the pounds and give him some energy as he was very dull not very reactive seemed depressed. For the week that the farrier was not due to come out we decided to put him on a 1 gram of bute as well to see how he did.

Next day he was noticably brighter, seemed happier and was walking very well with slight lameness at the trot, as usual no heat, swelling, or pain in either the legs or hooves.

Next day was even better after another 1 gram of bute no lameness at the walk with a slight ever so slight hitch in his step at the trot. Still same as the day before with some fluid on his left knee, no heat, swelling or pain neither in his hoof.

The next day we decided to stop the bute as the farrier was due to come out in 3 days, we wanted to have the farrier see any pain if there was some and see what would happen as that day he was again sound with no issues as was the day before. Not noticing any back sensitivity but noticing some flank and girth sensitivity to brushing.

Next day he presented with slight lameness at the trot with again fluid in the knee as usual with no pain, swelling, or heat in neither his legs or hooves.

Next day he was sound at the walk but lame going both directions this time at the trot. No heat, swelling, or pain on palpation still no heat in his hoof either. His stride is fluid no stubby gait, is forward with good extension at the walk and trot only with a limp. He is even cantering out in the field on his own big goof.

Farrier comes out and does the hoof test negative for pain on both fronts but positive for thin soles. After the farrier finished putting on Pads in front with aluminums we trotted Trey and saw a noticeably better trot with a slight limp. We thought that we had found the problem finally. 2 hrs later we brought him in for feeding... Moderately Lame at the Walk and severely Lame at the trot. No heat, swelling, or pain in either Front limbs, there was slight heat on the Left front hoof so I cold soaked it for 20 minutes. Afterwards he walked noticeably better out to the pasture. We decided to see how he was the next day before we put him on bute.

Next day fine no limp at the walk, limping either direction at the trot. We decided to just play it by ear for the next week thinking that he may need some time to get used to the shoes and pads if he had bruised his sole. No change really in his Lameness or his legs and hooves still no heat in his feet, still some fluid in his Left Knee with no swelling, heat, or pain on palpation. Had some good days were he was sound at the walk and some days were he was a little off at the walk but always lame at the trot. First week after farrier comes and goes still no improvement we are know looking at maybe an abscess but we are not seeing any worsening or heat in the hoof. No change in lameness or his knee. Noticing that he still has sensitivity to being brushed on his flanks, girth, and groin, no back tenderness noted.

Next week we tried maybe doing some walking lessons working on engaging his back and hindquarters properly as he has a slight hump at the end of his rib cage on his spinal process and has a moderately firm lump on his 18th rib about 5 inches down the right side from that Spinal hump. He were thinking hunters bump and the fact that he hollows out his back when as ked to engaged his back and evades the bit, teeth were floated Dec 2012, so we worked on extending and energizing his walk and asking him to engage the rear, bend into the circles nice and evenly, and to embrace the bit. The work did not increase his lameness continued to have trotting lameness on both directions under saddle and inhand. Worked stopped however when we called the Chiropractor/DVM to give him a check up and see what is going on she will not be able to see him for another week and a hlaf.

We did not know what was going on and did not want to keep riding him and possibly making the problem harder to fix, that and we noticed my saddle was a little too wide. After examination of the saddle we tried on a few other saddles at the barn and soon noticed that Trey is severely asymmetrical in his shoulders, id say at least 3 inches difference from his left being the weakest/smallest to his right being the strongest/largest. Since then we have not ridden or asked him to do anything work related other than to trot for lameness if none present at the walk. We have as of late noticed that the larger the fluid buildup on his knee the more lame he is as in if the fluid is more pronounced he is usually slightly lame on the front and if the fluid is less pronounced his walk is generally sound, that and if he has a hard run in the pasture he will have more swelling and lameness present. And we have also discovered that on checking his back with a pressed finger he will duck and scoot out from under our hand from withers to tail head.

So we are not sure whats going on but we are slowly starting to think that he has had long term Left Knee lameness and discomfort in his surgically repaired knee and due to not using that leg/shoulder properly he has built up more muscle on his right side creating torsion of the spine and upon riding him as his back is presently, the saddle obviously will not fit properly and is causing the back pain we are seeing. We are thinking that he was injected without ours/or the rescue’s knowledge or medicated with bute, as the low dose bute daily seems to make him very comfortable. That and we think he might have ulcers which could be explained by long term use of bute and showing… I am tired of not knowing what is going on, im limited in funds due to the amount of food and supplementation he needs to gain weight and board im paying roughly about 700 per month. Im currently paying 200 for board, 200 on food monthly, 100 on weight supplements, and about 200 on his feet. Id like to know what your guess is and your recommendation for veterinary treatments/exams I should ask for if the Chiropractor has no good news. Im thinking she is going to be able to help the back/shoulder pain but the underlying issue might not be found upon her examination and that ill need to call out a western medicine practitioner as she specializes in Eastern Medicine and holistic approaches to health care. Thank you so much for your time. I understand that finding the problem is key so that I can begin to build to rehab the Asymmetry he has.
**First photo: is Trey from the front I will try to get better pictures for you tomorrow You can see if you look close enough that the Right shoulder is more pronounced and muscluar then the Left.
**Second Photo: Photo of his left side you can see the FLuid build up on his left knee and the hump on his back ever so slight right before his rump
**Third Photo: Trey when he first arrived at the rescue can see that even then he had some fluid build up on his knee had more muscle and was more filled out
**Fourth Photo: Picture of him while he was showing in wellington, FL I believe about 1 yr ago
New Member:
kholoure

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 5:10 am:

Trey showing his Front if you look close enough you can make out his shoulders and how his left is less pronounced then the right severly
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Kindheart/Treyfront_zpsdbc42a17.jpg
New Member:
kholoure

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 5:12 am:

Trey in this picture you can see his Left side and the fluid built up on his left knee and his hump right before his rump

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Kindheart/Treygrazing2_zps5f0f7c47.jpg
New Member:
kholoure

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 5:13 am:

Trey when he first came to the rescue you can see his knee has some fluid built up there as well but in this photo his back looks to be more up and his belly tucked up with more muscle and filled out better

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Kindheart/Treyjustcomingtorescue_zps04549 7ee.jpg
New Member:
kholoure

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 5:15 am:

And lastly until I can get better pic for you tomorrow a picture of Trey showing with his last owner over 3'9" in Wellington, FL last year

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Kindheart/Treyshow_zpsce04d8d4.jpg
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 7:19 pm:

Welcome Susanne,
I don't see a question above but I assume you want to know how do you diagnose your horses lameness. This is gone into at HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse for the proper steps to follow. As to care until the problem is diagnosed check out HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse.
DrO
Member:
kholoure

Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2013 - 9:57 pm:

Im sorry I guess with all that i didn't clarify what it was I was asking lol I am asking anyone what they think this could be and if they have had anything similar with their own horses or know of someone with a similar experience.

I have the chiropractor/DVM coming out tomorrow evening to do a complete overall on him and see what she says but at this point i'm not optimistic about her finding anything concrete. So im looking to see what opinions and ideas are as to what this could be and where to go next after the Chiro and vet depending on what the chiro says and finds or doesn't find... Id prefer to keep this as low on the budget as possible as I do have limited funds but unlimited time and resources.
Today I did take some photos for more information on what is going on. I did do a knee placement view and did see about an inch difference, R knee was higher then the Left. Hooves were relatively even in height and width.
His natural stance is offset, with his Right placed forward of the left front. He does relax he hind legs evenly does not prefer one over the other. And does tend to have his head and neck more to the Left then to carry it center.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Kindheart/TreyWithers_zps16f4b4b1.jpg
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Apr 13, 2013 - 5:05 pm:

Got it Susanne,
First let me say I am sorry on rereading the above information I see the questions "Id like to know what your guess is and your recommendation for veterinary treatments/exams I should ask for if the Chiropractor has no good news." However the article I reference above gives you exactly that information. The lameness exam needs to be performed in a stepwise logical manner to first determine which leg or legs may be involved and then next starting at the foot and working upwards where in the leg(s) is the lameness coming from then lastly how do you determine what in the localized area of the leg is causing the lameness. Answer each question one at a time before you move on and don't skip steps because you "think" you know what is going on, the article tells you how to prove these suppositions.
DrO
New Member:
siscobab

Posted on Monday, Feb 24, 2014 - 12:36 pm:

I have a 10 month old foal. She came up lame 10 days ago. Vet said radial nerve paralysis. Sheeiq
is not putting her front right foot down is limping. What shall I do. He said time will be what it takes. Please advise
New Member:
siscobab

Posted on Monday, Feb 24, 2014 - 12:39 pm:

Dr.O will time heal this nerve problem?. My website is www.turningpointwb.com. She is Herzdame and a lovely filly.
New Member:
siscobab

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 25, 2014 - 7:52 am:

Please Dr.O could you advise about my post from 2-24-2014
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 26, 2014 - 7:08 pm:

Welcome to Horseadvice Claudia,
I believe we can help you with your question but let me get you started off right so you can get the best answer as quick as possible.

You will get more responses if you start your own discussion rather than post at the bottom on another member's discussion. Each discussion is "owned" by the original poster and all replies in that discussion should either directly or indirectly address the concerns of the original poster.

We do have a better article covering your topic where you can start your discussion. You will find it at HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse. This will be a Article Page on this topic. Below the article you will find a list of already existing discussions on this topic. Under this list you will find the "Start New Discussion" button. You should first review the article as it will have important information on your subject. Next check the titles of the already existing discussions to see if your question has already been answered.

If your question remains unanswered, now is the time to Start a New Discussion. Select a short title that describes your specific concern. A title like "Help!!!" does not help others find your specific topic. Instead something like "Ace for Colic?" allows others to rapidly find and understand what your topic is about just by viewing the title. This is likely to bring more responses from those with some experience with your topic and allows members to find answers to their questions quicker. Note I would like to see more description of the lameness to better know if radial nerve paralysis is actually the problem.
DrO
PS If you would like to simply see the prognosis for radial nerve paralysis run a search on "radial nerve paralysis".
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