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  Discussion on Feed program for thin Cushinoid horse
Author Message
Member:
klmcbri

Posted on Monday, May 20, 2013 - 10:00 am:

I care for a Rocky Mountain named Drummer. He is 16yrs old. He was diagnosed as PPID last fall. He pees a ton, drinks a ton, gets very wooly in winter and previously had not shed out well in spring, last year I clipped him 3 times. We started him on Pergolide last fall and he shed out nicely this spring, still pees and drinks a ton. However now I can see he is too thin. I "weighed" him using the measurements in the weight measurement article and he comes out to 1052 lbs. He is 15.3 hands. I'd give him a BCS of 3 or 4. I can see his ribs, his backbone is concave and his hips are prominent. He does still have the cresty neck. I had the nutritionist from Tribute out to the farm last fall to do a hay test and look the horses over. She said the hay was fine for my horses. Activity is trail riding on weekends about 3 hours walking mostly. She thought he looked fine at that time. I thought he was thin then. You could see his ribs then but more so now. He is on drylot. I give him as much hay as he will eat. Usually about 6 flakes per day, fed on the ground so there is some wastage. There are times he doesn't eat it all. He eats better when in his stall. He gets 1 lb Essential K in the AM and 1 lb Essential K in the PM. The nutritionist had me stop giving the Cool Omega 40 that I was giving him last fall. He was getting 8oz per day. He also started coughing recently, It appears to be when eating his feed so I started wetting it down. That sometimes helps, but I saw a big green loogie on the floor the other morning. Vet says allergies and soak the hay. He doesn't seem to cough as much outside. I started giving 3 lbs alfalfa cubes soaked in water to him overnight and one flake of hay so he has something to munch on when the cubes run out. He has been dewormed and gets regular dental checkups. I want to know how to safely get some more weight on this horse with out aggravating the Cushings/IR/Laminitis that we finally have under control. I have only been giving the cubes for about a week. I called the nutritionist about the cubes and never got a call back. In this article it says hay cubes are safe for PPID, what about IR? Do I add back the Cool Omega 40? More Essential K? I am about to read up on the minerals as it appears the feed may not have everything they need as the nutritionist stated. ACTH on 4/15 was 43. I have a call into vets office for his previous ACTH and his insulin test from last fall. Will update that infor when I get it. Let me know any other suggestions.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 - 1:19 am:

You might discuss the pergolide dosage with your vet. I have a Cushings QH mare - 33yrs. old. She's been on pergolide since 2005. Over the years, she has needed her dosage increased a number of times. There is also some loss of conditioning that sometimes occurs with Cushings horses - along the top line. It shows with a prominent backbone and some ribbyness but still supports a belly and possibly some fat pads. The backbone on my horse filled in gradually as we got the pergolide dosage right and she began moving around more and resumed her normal activity level. I did notice that, from time to time, there was a real loss of appetite, and a true weight loss. I don't know if this was due to the medication or the disease. During these times, we cut her feed back to the largest amount she will finish at a feeding, then we add a mid-day feeding of the same amount ( they have grass hay or pasture always available ). We use a limited carbohydrate feed and 1/2 dose of Farrier's Formula.
Member:
klmcbri

Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 - 10:58 am:

Lee, Thanks for the info. When the vet came in the spring (4/15/2013) he did the ACTH and said at 43 to keep him on the same dose of Pergolide 1 mg. I got the info from the vet's office and his original ACTH (4/27/2010) was 45. That doesn't seem like much of a change to me. Not sure what to expect with the Pergolide. In addition I found out that his insulin/glucose test on 11/22/2012 insulin was 30.2 and glucose was 74, with a ratio of 69. Insulin was not that far out of range (5 - 20).
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2013 - 4:29 pm:

Kathy, I don't know whether you are using a compounded Pergolide, which is what my IR/PPID horse was on originally.

He has been doing much better on the Prascend tablets -- a 1 Mg. pill daily.

My large animal Vets prefer to be able to readily see the ribs on my horse (because of the EMS and his tendency toward laminitis) so I try to maintain him looking underweight because it serves his health better overall.

I also keep him on SmarPak IR pellets and a loading dose of Equithrive plus Farrier's Formula double strength.

He is doing very well and feeling good in spite of appearing thin.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2013 - 6:24 am:

Hello Kathy,
Yes alfalfa cubes are OK for horses with PPID which causes a secondary IR. What is essential K and Cool Omega 30? In general you need to get more calories in your horse and the safest form would be protein and fats or oil. For feeding recommendations see Advice.com » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Weight Loss in Horses » Overview of Chronic Weight Loss.

I don't think lab values are as important as assessing clinical response to the pergolide to determine a proper dose. If the PPID is the cause of the weight loss then increasing the pergolide might help.

If your horse has fallen to a condition of 3/4 you might consider quit riding him until he gets back up to a 4/5 however 15.3 at 1050 lbs does not sound like a 3.
DrO
Member:
klmcbri

Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2013 - 8:46 am:

DrO,
Essential K is a low starch/sugar pellet by Tribute. You mentioned it in another article. Cool omega 40 is a fat supplement pellet. I was using vegetable oil and the Tribute nutritionist said veg. oil will get rancid and the pelleted fat in Omega 40 is more concentrated and avoids the rancid issue. Ok, I'll ask the vet about increasing the pergolide on him to perhaps help up his weight. So your last statement gives me the impression that at 1050# you think he is not a 3 more a 4 or higher...is that correct? He currently is not ridden. Although since my husband's Rocky is having laminitis right now I may start riding this one, so we can ride together. We have 3 horses total. Hubby would ride my horse and I'd ride Drummer.
Member:
klmcbri

Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 4:11 pm:

Here is a picture from today of the "thin" one...doesn't look too bad from this...Drummer
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 7:28 pm:

No Kathy, you score condition by noting the horses appearance and though related is not the same as a number on tape. You must learn the condition factors and apply them yourself. What article do I mention Essential K in? I have no recollection of this product, but I am getting older. As to vegetable oil and rancidity someone has it backwards. Vegetable derived fats are slow to go rancid compared to meat sources. I have vegetable oils in my pantry that our years old and still perfectly good. It is meat derived fats and oil that are prone to a shorter period till they become rancid.
DrO
Member:
klmcbri

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 4, 2013 - 11:58 am:

Dr.O, Thanks for the info about vegetable oil. Come to think of it the nutritionist works for the company that makes the pelleted fat supplement that he used to be on. Hmmm. Anyway, I've reviewed all the articles and will be increasing his alfalfa cubes to 5# divided into 2 feedings. I'll reevaluate after a few weeks. If I need to I can add the vegetable oil back in. If still no change I'll press the vet about increasing his pergolide dose. Working the plan...
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