|
|
Discussion on De-rotation questions
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 5, 2013 - 12:07 pm:
Hi Dr. O, I have posted over the past year and a half about a horse I have with numerous misc problems including rubbing his butt raw. On September 16 he presented very lame in both front feet and with a typical laminitis gait. I had two vets and two farriers look at him. His feet were over grown, the first farrier was due out that week to trim. I have some of this in another post with the original x-rays. Between the four people, it was called thrush, canker, but the x-rays showed rotation. The first farrier trimmed his heels and toes; the vet didn't think it was enough and I had a second farrier trim more to the vets directions. A week later I thought he was worse; vet came out and did more x-rays. He is aligned better but the vet thinks more toe off and has also suggested shoes for heel support. I have read your de-rotation article. This horse is still in pain. I understand each founder is different but I really don't know what direction to go with this horse. I have been keeping him in his stall at night so he can lay down and letting him out in a sand arena during the day. Last week he was having good days and he spent some time in a flat pasture (we have a lot of hills). The vet said his founder was more mechanical from over a period of time of long toes and heels and not to worry about grass. My question is about shoes. The farrier and vet are coming out this Thursday. I am worried about shoes. This horse, has in the past, grown foot fast with lots of toe and heel. I would think I should leave the shoes off until he has less pain and let the hoof wear as it is re-angled. I have thought about using boots on him and not shoes until he has less pain. I will talk with my vet when she comes out but looking for an opinion on boots vs shoes at this point. First picture is left front, second right front.
 
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Oct 6, 2013 - 10:22 am:
Hello Kimberly,
One reason your horse remains painful is the trapped sensitive corium between the tip of the coffin bone and the insensitive sole/ground. A shoe will help prevent this pinch but will also remove some support for the coffin bone to prevent further rotation. If the bone is currently stable I would recommend the procedure described in detail in the article associated with this forum. Read it carefully and present the possibility to your vet and farrier to see if they can get on board. If my presumption of the remaining pain is right, it is the quickest way to soundness.
DrO
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Sunday, Oct 6, 2013 - 12:34 pm:
Thank you Dr. Ogelsby, I will print the article and discuss with my farrier and vet. I have attached a trimming game plan one farrier has for this horse. I know you haven't seen the horse, I understand the attempt at trimming to realign but the farrier also mentioned possible casting which I am not familiar with. In the attached pictures the farrier rotated them to show where they think the coffin bone has to be in order for the entire scenario to start healing. The red lines mark
what has to still come off, the green lines mark either thrush or high bars. If the hoof capsule needs it, the farrier will put a cast on, maybe with a sole pad, so that the hoof capsule does not abrade when he is moving around and he will get some stability and comfort. Once the coffin bone inside the hoof capsule is set ground parallel, the wall can grow again where it belongs and the laminar attachment can regenerate.
Do you have any articles on casting or an opinion? 
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 9, 2013 - 5:55 pm:
Because of the complications of the cast itself (primarily pressure sores), I avoid casting whenever possible even if there is some indication. I don't see the indication for it here so be sure you ask the vet what benefit is expected and be sure it makes sense.
DrO
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 9, 2013 - 6:59 pm:
Thanks, I have read more about it and we did not cast him, just the correction trim as shown above which left him very sore; walking better but obviously still sore. How do you feel about boots? I don't know if I can say the name or not but got some easycare rx boots and it is amazing how much better he can walk. I have heard it is okay to leave them on all the time except to check the hoof a couple of times a day and I have heard we should only aim for 12 hours a day and leave him barefoot the other 12 hours. What is your opinion on boots and the healing process. He is scheduled for another check up/trim in about 10 days. He has some edema in his hind legs, I had been wrapping them but thought more movement would cause it to go down, any suggestions? We don't have any x-rays but I would say he had changes in his back feet as well.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 11, 2013 - 7:44 am:
Assuming the coffin bone is stable within the hoof capsule, the only downside to the boots would be if the hooves stay moist in the boots the horn will soften and be more prone to cracking, crumbling, abcess formation.
What is the cause of the swelling in the rear legs?
DrO
|
Member:
chiptwh
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 11, 2013 - 9:38 am:
Thanks, I am assuming the cause of swelling in the rear legs is edema. I am assuming this because he is less active. With the boots on I am trying to hand walk him and hopefully that will lessen the swelling but it has not entirely gone away. He is not stalled and can walk as much as he feels comfortable. Would wrapping him help? or do you think this indicates some other problem? I do not have xrays of the rear feet but I believe all four feet are involved.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Tuesday, Oct 15, 2013 - 7:38 pm:
I have used "casting" with excellent results in one of mine who had laminitis due to EMS and PPID.
He had the wraps changed every 60 days for about 6 months and had no problems due to pressure sores and did not get thrush.
A really good trim, balanced laterally and medially is key to good results, as is a heel that is properly addressed.
I prefer the materials used by and available through K.C. LaPierre that breathe and flex and use the small screws at the back, which prevents stuff from getting down inside the backs of the wraps.
When edema gets into a horses legs it can take a good long while for it to go away. The best remedy for that is is exercise, and that is one thing that the "casts" help to facilitate.
Wrapping the legs can help to improve circulation as can rubbing the legs with a thorough rub down with something like witch hazel, IME.
After I had my horse in wraps ("casts") for 6 months, his foot was very much improved. You would not know by looking at his feet now that he had laminitis and rotation, but also key was properly addressing his EMS and PPID problems.
His feet now have concavity back and appear to be totally normal. He is completely sound.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Oct 17, 2013 - 5:10 pm:
Kimberely edema is not a diagnosis you can have both active (from inflammation) and passive from simple congestion. For more on this see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses. You will find more information on treatment depending on the type.
Vicki I presumed Kimberely was talking about hard casting materials like 3Ms fiberglass casting tape and not soft wraps of some sort. I have never had to use hard casting or a softer wrap for such founders and have good results with many dozens of horses but delighted to hear your horse has done well.
DrO
|
|
|
