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  Discussion on Possible nerve damage
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New Member:
Benson

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 6:47 pm:

I really hope someone could give me some advice. The story is quite lengthy so i will cut it down as much as poss. I purchased an 11 yr old Gelding German Hanoverian 3 mths ago. The first 10 weeks were fantastic. Then one day he came in from the field biting at his left shoulder. A few days later it got worse and his left shoulder was twitching up to his wither again he was biting at it. As the days went by I had the dentitst check him, farrier check him, back lady check him all to no avail. The back lady did suggest it may be neuroligical. After 2 weeks of watching my horse get more and more miserable and agitated I called the vet. By this time on a few occasion he has got so agitated he has been bucking and thrashing out in his stable, he is so laid back usually and this is totally out of character for him and very distressing for both of us. She couldn't find anything physically abnormal at the time of the examination, a blood test was taken and the results showed a virus (unable to specify) we added a Vit B suppliment and immune supplement to his feed and gave him a rest from work, he was still going out grazing each day, initially after the 1st week he appeared to be improving however he appears to have taken a turn for the worst now and my vet visited again today and he is now showing signs of lameness in his right hind, she is going to refer him to the diagnostic ctr in newmarket asap. I have looked up almost everything i can think of on the internet but I cant seem to find any symptoms that resemble his. The twitching is almost continueous now and he is getting more and more agitated with it, he is now quite sensitive to things around him which he was never like that before??
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 2:36 am:

Dear Lisa Morton,

We had a horse at the Indio horse show. He collided with another horse. Both horse and rider went down. The vets x-rayed his legs. There were no breaks in any of the four legs.

When the horse arrived home he just was not himself. He went to a couple more shows and the trainer decided something was definitely wrong.

They finally x-rayed his shoulders only to find out he had a hairline fracture in his shoulder.

He was given 8 months off. He healed nicely and is currently jumping 4'.

Horses can't tell us what is wrong with them so we can only observe their actions and symptoms.

I am not saying this is what is wrong with your horse. The horse with the broken shoulder took at least two and a half months to diagnosis. So one never knows until all problems have been ruled out for a proper diagnosis.

I am sure Dr.O can advise you further, since I am not a vet.

Good Luck and God Bless all of the animals and all of the people who take care of them.

WTG
New Member:
Benson

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 3:29 am:

Thank you for your reply, In a way I am hoping that it is an injury to his shoulder and that way, hopefully, it can be diagnosed and treated. Unfortunately I can't watch him all day so I am unaware if he had a bump or tumble in the field, he only grazes with 3 other geldings and they all get on really well, but you never can tell. My biggest fear at the present time is that when he gets himself really upset and agitated he sometimes gets really worked up in his stable and I am really worried that he may injure himself. The vets thinks this may be why he is showing lameness in his right hind now and he wasn't 2 weeks ago, we think he may have injured himself thrashing out in the stable. I keep him out grazing as long as I can, however all the horses are stabled at night so he is unable to live out. Hopefully he will be in the hospital soon, the vet advised me that she would like him to have a test that shows up 'Hot Spots'?
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 3:56 am:

Dear Lisa,

If your horse is out with other horses every day unsupervised, could it be possible one of the other horses kicked him in the shoulder??

My horse is extremely aggressive when it is feeding time. Therefore I must always bring the two horses in from the turnout before the feed truck arrives or Aly will try to ruffhouse with Angel.

Just a thought.

WTG
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 1:00 pm:

Lisa, I do not think it is wise to turn a horse with a worsening lameness out, with other horses or not. They don't heal too well playing in the pasture.
What does your vet say about keeping him lightly tranquilised in his box until you know what you're dealing with?
Dentists, chiropractors and farriers can not diagnose shoulder problems. Only a vet can.
And supplements do not kill viruses, nor do they correct worsening lameness.
I am afraid you have lost quite some time, I hope not crucial.
Until you know what's wrong with the left shoulder, you need to support the other leg that's taking all the strain now. He has already started having a problem with it, don't wait!
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 1:10 pm:

You may also want to consider that a normal box is not too good for a shoulder problem, the horse has to turn sharply, which is difficult on a painful shoulder and very distressing.
A roomy paddock may be the best.
New Member:
Benson

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 4:51 pm:

Thanks for your reply, I do understand that supplements do not kill viruses however, he had a blood test and is showed a virus (unable to specify), the supplements were to aid/boost his immune system in turn to hopefully help fight the virus, at this time the vet was unsure if the virus could be linked to the shoulder problems so we were treating one thing at a time? I only had the dentist out because my horse had some dentistry work carried out in the weeks prior to the problem starting so I wanted him to re check that his teeth were ok, the same with the back lady. Today he has been referred to an Equine Clinic and he is going in next Wednesday. Yes the vet has advised me give him a sedative at night to keep him calm whilst in his box, but she still feels that turning him out is ok? Unfortunately the yard he is at does not allow horses to be turned out over night even in the small paddock (especially on their own) therefore I have no alternative but to stable him in his normal box.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 8:29 pm:

Hello Liza,
I have seen such reactions in horses being bitten by horse flies. The first thing to try is treating for biting mites and first treatment should probably be a double dose of ivermectin. Other causes are allergies, including food allergy/intolerance, atopy and contact allergy, as well as ectoparasites.

Otherwise we will all have to wait for a total exam and perhaps a biopsy of the pruritic areas to rule out things like skin or migrating subcutaneous parasites. However there are some poorly understood conditions that result in horses self-mutalting themselves for no known cause:

Equine self-mutilation synDrOme (57 cases)

Dodman NH, Normile JA, Shuster L, Rand W.
Department of Surgery, School of Veterinary Medicine, Tufts University, North Grafton, MA 01536.

Owners who believed they had a horse with self-mutilating behavior were asked to complete a questionnaire to obtain information on the signalment, clinical history, clinical signs, management, and treatment of the condition. Fifty-two owners of 59 horses responded; 2 cases were omitted because an organic cause was determined. Owners also were asked to complete information for unaffected horses on the same farm. Various breeds were affected, and of the 57 horses, 20 were stallions, 31 were geldings, and 6 were mares. Affected horses tended to develop the condition prior to sexual maturity. Clinical signs included glancing or biting at the flank or pectoral areas, bucking, kicking, vocalizing, rubbing, spinning, or rolling. Several management and environmental factors were examined, but none were found to be exclusively related to expression of the disorder. Castration was associated with improvement in 7 of 10 stallions. Medications and changes in management reduced or prevented the behavior in some horses. The synDrOme appears to be similar to Tourette's synDrOme of human beings.
DrO
New Member:
Benson

Posted on Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 - 2:39 am:

I did initially think that it could be something to do with flies/midges however, it doesn't appear consistent enough now, he also has a herbal supplement called "Fly Free" fro Global Herbs and I have thought about omitting this from his feed, only as coincidently it did start not long after he had this added to his feed? Other than that his feeding regime has not changed since I purchased him and he has the same feed that his previous owner gave him, we have stayed in touch since I purchased him and she is as concerned as I am. Is self mutilation synDrOme something that can just appear over night? is it heredity or congental?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 1, 2005 - 2:48 pm:

Yes it can appear suddenly and there is no reason to believe it hereditary. By all means discontinue the herbal supplement to see if that helps, particularly since there are no such preparations that are thought to be effective by parasitologist or entomologist.
DrO
New Member:
Benson

Posted on Thursday, Jul 7, 2005 - 6:17 pm:

Well Jonnie has been to Newmarket now and has x-rays on shoulder and withers etc, no injury or trauma showing, he also had a scintigraphy and nothing showed up on that either, the diagnostic vet seems to feel that the stable behaviour however in frequent is a seperate issue and that he is just showing signs of boredom and frustration at being stable at night not through injury, I am picking him up Sat am and have been advise to resume work again, as he has now been out of work for 4 weeks, he also did not show lame when examined at the diagnostic centre? any suggestion, am I now dealing with a vice here, they informed me that whilst stabled there he was box walking constantly and not very happy about being stabled all day (can't blame him) but i am now wondering if this was the problem all along, been on internet looking up the stable mirrors, anyone using a mirror? could this ease the problem, could it be that he has got frustrated with being stabled at night?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 8, 2005 - 7:07 am:

I have not tried the mirror personally but have been recommending it for horses that have vices and cannot be managed with 24 hours turn out because there are reports of effectiveness and there is little else that might work.
DrO
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