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Discussion on Large lump base of neck
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New Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2014 - 3:50 am:
I woke up to this Saturday at removal of his blanket. No puncture or scrape, not hot, hard and not too touchy when pressed. All stats normal, he's eating, drinking normally. Today, Monday it's maybe bigger or the same, can't tell too much, and even after cold hosing and a dose of banamine paste via my local vet. He was crabby under saddle before the banamine so I put him away haven't ridden him after. I thought maybe a pulled muscle but I don't know if it would look like that. He's all by himself nobody to kick or bite him. He's a 7 year old thoroughbred. Maybe he ran into something in his stall? Weird it appeared suddenly, no cause like shots or a slow appearance over weeks like a tumor might, but who knows what happened? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks so much. Trying to upload today's pictures but even 8kb won't go. Sorry this is Saturday and the only pic that loads 
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New Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2014 - 3:56 am:
If this loads this is today 
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New Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2014 - 3:58 am:
This was Saturday 
Again, stats the same today as Saturday except his attitude (although he's just starting work, so he could just be sore from Sundays workout?)
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2014 - 8:29 am:
odd place but maybe pigeon fever ?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots .
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2014 - 6:31 pm:
Welcome DDinO,
For more on diagnosing this swelling see, HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses. It is a little more on point than this article. From the information we have so far this could be any fluid making event (seroma, hematoma, sterile abscess, or low grade infection) so if this does not start to resolve on its own the best diagnostic step is to tap it and see what type fluid you have. In this area sometimes drainage is required even if noninfectious because of pocketing of the fluid.
DrO
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2014 - 6:53 pm:
We had something like this happen to one of our horses. The vet drained it and then opened it enough for us to cold hose rinse everyday. It was a deep.
No idea what caused it. But, it healed up and she is fine.
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New Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2014 - 2:05 am:
Thank you for your replies. Pigeon fever is not common on coastal Oregon, but not impossible. I have the vet coming Wednesday to look although I read much of the forum posts you suggested Dr.O, but honestly I still am not sure it's an abcess, hematoma as its muscular/hard in feel, almost like a knot. I cannot imagine fluid coming out but I'm not a vet lol.  I guess I will find out more Wednesday. Ilkeep posting to help others.
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Member:
zaza
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Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2014 - 1:02 pm:
My 9 year old MFT had this exact appearance with no change in any other way just like you described when he was 6 years old. It was firm but not solid feeling, no pain, no heat, no visible wound and lives alone. His developed a little lower, right on his chest muscle made him look like he had a saggy boob. My vet didnt want to punture it to minimize a risk of causing an infection and more problems when there wasn't one already. So I waited to see if it would go away on its own (I never did anythin, no meds, no hosing, no salves, nothing just time, acted like it wasn't there) and took about one month to go away and like it never happened. Then recently my thouroughbred developed the exact same thing (apperance and lack of symptoms and firm large "mass") but her was under her belly. So I waited to see and sure enough about a month all gone. No vet bills... worth it. I gave it time only because it didn't show signs of pain, heat, fever, discomfort (still very energetic in disposition and willing to play), or changes in eating/drinking behavior, wasn't growing (happened like over night) and wasn't getting worse. That was my checklist.
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New Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2014 - 2:21 pm:
Hmmm yes I am having the vet coming Wednesday but she called me this morning and said that she'll look to be safe but to do just that, if nothing else goes South just let it be.
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2014 - 2:24 pm:
Ps. horses are weird. Lol 
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Member:
zaza
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 5, 2014 - 6:03 pm:
I am curious to know what the vet said or did...
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 6, 2014 - 3:39 am:
Hi there... so the vet came and is....totally confused lol. She said it's hard like almost a bony, but not a bony swelling, not a hematoma unless possibly submuscular, not pigeon fever, and because of the feel not likely a sarcoidosis. SO, we're letting it ride for a month or two and see if anything changes.
The next step would be to poke at it and see if it is encapsulated, but its not likely a hematoma so she said she'd rather not irritate it (because if it's a sarcoidosis poking it makes it worse.)
She suggested an ultrasound if it remains unchanged, but if it ends up being a really weird sarcoid, its
not in a place to need to remove it anyway.. Not sure what to think! Everyone is confused. 😕 what do you think Dr O?
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 5:55 pm:
Still at a loss with this. Finally rode him Saturday, and this morning there's a second subswell under the original bump. Ok. So is this a hematoma under the muscles that exercise is spreading, or a muscle injury that submuscles are now taking up the slack? Arghhhh I wish I had a proficient vet out here but I don't. Post pix to follow.
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:10 pm:
The white circle is the original injury and the red circle is the new swelling today. Thanks all! 
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:10 pm:
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:11 pm:
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:11 pm:
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:12 pm:
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:20 pm:
Can this horse get his head between any fence boards to try and eat grass on the other side of the fence? My horse has marks in the exact same place from doing that, but his are not swollen only rubbed a bit. Any possibility of splinters?
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 6:56 pm:
No, he's in a box stall with solid fence turnout. I haven't seen any kind of wound, neither did the vet.
😕
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 7:25 pm:
Does he have a yoke gate,a solid stall door or a sliding door on his stall. If a yoke gate, is he trying to reach something on the outside of his stall? And how tall is his fence in the paddock. It just looks to me like he is rubbing this on something and not necessarily causing an apparent wound. Or maybe his blanket is causing some type of irritation. Do you have a closed front blanket you could try on him?
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 8:36 pm:
Ok
He has a 6'side wall, solid the rest to 10', his gate is pipe about 4.5' and the turnout is 6'. So nothing really chest height. His blanket is standard buckle front, I'll see if I can take a pic of them tomorrow. Thanks for trying to help I appreciate it.
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 8:45 pm:
   
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 9, 2014 - 8:50 pm:
Ps, he can't get his head in between the bars of the gate, that I've ever seen, and he's tried.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2014 - 6:11 am:
Ok, Here is what I see in the photos. If you look at the picture of him with his blanket on, the cut of the blanket on the shoulder almost exactly matches the swellings. It may be that the blanket is causing the problem. If you don't have a closed front blanket, try to find a shoulder Sleazy. Both my horses wear these one piece liners to protect their shoulders from blanket rubbing. Also and I can't really tell from the blanket photo, but I have a blanket that looks similar to this, and I had a mare catch the front closure on a gate( groom put the blanket on with the snap part facing out instead of the rounded part of the snap out) Scared horse, but no physical damage to her. I think it was a Rambo Rug but had a higher neck line.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2014 - 3:55 pm:
Hello DD,
Tapping it is not that hard, see my post above.
DrO
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2014 - 1:36 am:
Welcome DDinO,
For more on diagnosing this swelling see, HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses. It is a little more on point than this article. From the information we have so far this could be any fluid making event (seroma, hematoma, sterile abscess, or low grade infection) so if this does not start to resolve on its own the best diagnostic step is to tap it and see what type fluid you have. In this area sometimes drainage is required even if noninfectious because of pocketing of the fluid.
DrO
Hmmm I wonder why my vet was hesitant to tap it then? Maybe she wasnt up to it lol so much for that ranch call $ heheh.. She mentioned infection risk and if it was a sarcoma tapping it aggrivates it. What do you think of those two things DrO?
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 - 1:56 pm:
Update : it was ultrasounded, biopsied, it's an abcess of unknown cause. Culture done but not back yet. Was opened and drained as much as possible Thurs morning, took three shots of sedative to get it done.
Ok so now comes even more trouble. He hates meds even hidden in grain or applesauce I have to starve him out and hope he eats it. Luckily the antibiotics are not as bad but the bute pills? Ya right. Anyway if he eats that bute at all, he's such a high tolerance to drugs horse he might as well have not taken any bute at all.
My issue besides the meds now is the daily flushing it. The first three times ok, but now he refuses to let me near it as nice as I am about flushing doesn't matter, he'll bolt,rear, kick, bite.. there's no holding him. It's obviously incredibly painful, the vet had to lance it deep, not just surface but internal pockets.
So.. Now what. I don't want to end up in the hospital keeping him out of it!
What do I do?? If I can't flush it? Arghhhh! Help, please.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 - 5:09 pm:
Hello DD,
as far as the Bute, while it may be more expensive. Bute paste works well as long as you can get it in his mouth. I would alternate a syringe of Honey with a dose of bute. That way he won't know which he's getting and may not give you as hard a time.
As far as the flushing goes, you can not let the drainage holes close up to soon, so you have to do what you have to do. If you can get one quickly I'd get a one man clamp or I have used a large blanket clamp as a twitch. If you can't get it on his top lip, put it on his bottom lip,under his chin, just make sure it has some spring in it and doesn't go on too, too tight, you just want to take his mind a little bit off what you are doing and you do not want to get hurt.
I had a horse I had to flush her face several times a day, I used a Turkey baster and alternated warm and cold.
also do you put him on crossties to deal with him?
Hope it goes better for you over the next few days.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 - 7:09 pm:
first of all you must not get hurt ... Rtrotter has some good ideas , have you tried a lip chain ? a chain under the top lip over his teeth? Have you tried a chain over the top of his pole ..? I hate to use such devices but your safety and treating your horse is an issue right now .. .. can you shoot a cold hose to irrigate the wound ?
Wish we could be more help , Wish Dr. O would suggest something ?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots .
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2014 - 7:10 pm:
oh maybe a bit of Ace under the tongue to calm him down .. takes about 50 mins orally to work ..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 25, 2014 - 8:57 am:
Hello DDinO,
"he'll bolt,rear, kick, bite.." It sounds like you need to seek some professional help here. Step back from the situation and realize that it is not worth getting hurt over. Talk to your vet about modifying the treatment regimen to something practical for you and the horse which may include oral tranquilizers. Our pages on sedatives will have some ideas HorseAdvice.com » Treatments and Medications for Horses » Sedatives & Anesthetics.
This horse needs some positive experiences with you. Consider behavior modification through conditioned responses. Check out HorseAdvice.com » Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavior and Training » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses.
DrO
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 25, 2014 - 2:05 pm:
Thank you Dr. O
I've just been hosing it and using a high pressure small tip nozzle in the hole, much easier for both of us. He's been on uniprim for 8 days, and it's nearly flat again. Vet left no instructions for when to stop antibiotics, but I'm out anyway and she's gone out of town.
Hes a hot thoroughbred, it is what it is. He's had it better with me than anywhere else he's been, including my patience for his antics lol. Background I've had show horses all my life, I'm in my 40's and he's not the first brat I've had but hes
he's the largest!
We've been doing great bonding, this set us back but we'll be back making progress soon. I do natural horsemanship with him, I'll say one thing for this guy... He's made me super creative on how to work around issues, that's for sure! Attached a picture of what he looks like now on the top grazing and underneath it is what he looked like when I got him in August. Yep, it's the same horse.
Happy Holidays
D
 
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Friday, Mar 27, 2015 - 2:34 am:
Dr O, can abcesses return in the same spot? Levi was trying to reach over the gate and appeared to rub that same spot. The next day? Another lump similar to before! Aaaaaaaack! Do abcesses form from trauma? He's thin skinned and pain resistant so who knows how hard he pushed. I'm thinking this is how he got the first one as a wound was never found. (?)
This time I've cold hosed and am hot packing once or twice a day, and once a day bute, and ichthammol spread on it. Not positive it's an abcess again but sure seems like it. It's always hard as a rock and not hot, no fever, no change in activity or appetite. Just like before.
If not a new trauma abcess... Could the original abcess have returned two months later?
He was tested for Pigeon fever last time, and it was negative. He was on Uniprim for ten days following lancing. Curious if an original can return, or a new one (some horses prone?) or trauma causes abcess. I have read all the info and lots of posts in the abcess section but do not find the answers.
Thanks in advance.
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Friday, Mar 27, 2015 - 3:48 am:
Ohh and another thing I noticed, last time, his right rear lower leg and pastern was warm and ever so slightly puffy before the abcess appeared and continued to be off and on until the abcess was drained .. The other day I noticed that his right ght rear was again warm, and then a day later, new chest lump. Not sure if it's coincidence, or chicken and the egg - side effect of leg or leg side effect of lump.
For some reason lymphatic issue comes to thought...?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 28, 2015 - 10:43 am:
Though I am uncertain as to the nature of your swelling, yes abscesses can return to the same spot. Trauma that does not break the skin do not often become infected but it is possible through bacteria in the blood or latently present in the tissues.
DrO
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Member:
ddoregon
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 29, 2015 - 1:09 pm:
I am uncertain too! Good news, it is an abcess and burst this morning. The hot pack and ichthammol did it, much better than the 480.00 vet bill last time lol.
Thanks again Dr O.
My additional question is if it's a latent infection, the uniprim did not clear it last time. He's VERY resistant to meds, we have to use 3x sedative for anything. I assume antibiotics are no different. Should I ask for a zpak this time or something else stronger or a longer course like a 30 day pennecillin? I'm gut feeling staph. Suggestions?
Thank you kindly
D
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Friday, Apr 3, 2015 - 1:26 am:
As to the medication administration: we used a 60cc Monoject syringe with the catheter tip and crushed up the meds with applesauce. You can order a box of the syringes online.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 3, 2015 - 10:03 am:
Hello CD,
Antibiotics work differently than sedatives so recommended dosing rates apply. If an abiotic is deemed necessary I do think a different one is sensible, consult with your vet as to what the best choice might be. Abscesses that are well drained and well cared for often do not require abiotic.
DrO
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