This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse »
  Discussion on Where does this horse hurt - bizarre workup.
Author Message
Member:
kjthoma

Posted on Saturday, Nov 8, 2014 - 11:56 am:

I'm posting this here 'cause I know that Dr. O. has gaited horses. My vets aren't familiar with them.

So we've been struggling with what appear to be back issues w/ my husbands foxtrotter gelding. He's built like a little walker, has a camel walk, and prefers to step pace.

He goes back and forth being rideable vs bucking and refusing to turn left or go left, and looks lame in the LF pretty consistently. We've had the back injected twice, x-ray'd the LR up and down (he was acting sore there that particular day), and flexed fronts in the past w/ no appreciable change in gaits.

I decided to have thermographer out to see if anything 'lit up' on him because it's getting frustrating. Flexing the fronts does nothing, so I was expecting to see heat in the shoulder (in spite of the fact that he doesn't have muscle wastage there).

Instead, there was heat in the back along the spine and in the right rear. In fact, everybody could feel the heat in the right rear that day - and the longer he stood on the nice cold concrete the hotter it got. Next day he wouldn't let me palpate around that foot.

He was VERY lame the day that the pics were taken (and it was cold out!). He refused to trot right, and looked miserable trotting left.

Took the horse and pics to the vet today - and of course, he didn't react to any palpation or hoof testers anywhere. Vet agreed that he looked lame on the LF, so we started blocking there - and then it got weird.

I am wondering at this point how much he is compensating for his compensations from WHATEVER. Or if there really IS something in the RH. Or if the fact he is gaited is just confusing the issue. He is trotting on the circles - but is good at using the neck to change his weight distribution.

Vet is currently trying to figure out a testing protocol that might show something up.

Here are my notes:

1. Horse looks lame on LF pacing on straight.

2. No hoof or easily palpable soft tissue seems to be sore on hoof testing/palpation.

3. Horse looks lame on LF trotting left - hard surface. Horse has difficulty being convinced to trot right - hard surface.

4. Palmar block LF hoof.

Deep footing:
- Horse immediately turns right - looks lame on RF. Worse in deeper sand.
- Horse has to be chased to go left. Looks better going left.

Hard footing:
- Horse improved going left.
- Horse looks more lame going right. Horse still does not want to go right.

5. 4point block (whole foot/fetlock?)

Deep footing:
- Horse immediately turns right, and looks even MORE lame on RF - worse in deeper sand. Has to 'hop' to pick up trot.
- Horse has to be chased to go left. Looks WORSE going left. Has to 'hop' to pick up trot.

Hard footing.
- Horse looks lame on LF again.
- Horse looks better going right, and is more willing to go right...but is leaning in on the circle badly. By now the horse is holding the neck very rigid - compensating for something?

Straight
- Horse still pacing looking lame on LF.

X-rays of LF show nothing. X-rays of RH have one anomaly that isn't a fracture. Vet is assuming normal variability in coffin bone. Visible in the first 2 views, not in the third. Would appreciate input on that, too. It's the thing that looks like a "V" that I have circled.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/16880823@N07/15712297766/in/set-72157648767728719/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16880823@N07/15550563918/in/set-72157648767728719/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16880823@N07/15550563878/in/set-72157648767728719/
Member:
zaza

Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2014 - 10:46 am:

I've had my foxtrotter for 6 years and he was lame for about the first two with numerous farriers and one vet who had no idea why. Finally one vet figured it out... angles of his hooves were all wrong for his conformation causing severe heel pain mostly front two. Several farriers thought his hooves were perfect but I forced one to follow the vets directions and he felt great that day first time in his life, never took a lame step again. May I see lateral x-ray views? and or lateral hoof views with pastern included and camera shot level on the flat ground next to hoof?
I read you mentioned something about neck compensating the weight, does that mean head bobbing when walking/trotting? usually indication of front pain, head goes up when using front hoof that hurts. He might hurt with all which is why it is difficult to pin point. we figured it out because he nerved blocked both front heels and immediately we saw an improvement, heel to low although compared to any quarter horse they are double the height which is why all his farriers disagreed needed more heel but for his pastern not enough, he was broken back. Coincidentally also might have back pain as well... that would be a whole different ball of wax, but if his feet hurt the back probably feels worse.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Nov 10, 2014 - 4:28 pm:

I gave up on anyone agreeing with anything farriers don't agree, vets don't agree. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. I have Standardbred pacers. One of my horses just started racing as a 6 year old because he would not stay sound with shoes on. My answer was to train him down barefoot. I trim him myself and I very rarely have to do much of anything. He wears his feet the way he wants and the only time I trim anything is when he has a rough spot or a slight chip. He has kept his feet pretty well without me doing anything except conditioning his feet through exercise on the right surfaces and good nutrition. I had every intention of putting shoes on him to race, since I am dealing with stone dust racetracks. But so far, 1) he his staying sound and 2) his feet are not getting torn up as much as I thought they would, despite everyone else's opinions that he would not be able to race barefoot.

I would also like to see some confirmation pictures and some pictures of his feet with some solar views. It also sounds to me like his feet may be causing his back issues.
Member:
zaza

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 - 11:34 am:

Hi rtrotter

I was wondering what surfaces you mean when you train his feet. I am working on that right now with mine and any good tips would be appreciated.
I also have endured everybody disagreeing with everyone and with all literature out there on hooves. I let them know that the proof is in the pudding and nobody can argue with that. I've also had to go solo and teach myself how to make my horse sound on my own, learned a lot about anatomy.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 - 3:36 pm:

Hi Elizabeth,

For the most part a horse's feet will condition themselves to what ever environment they live and work in. A lot of people that try and go barefoot with their horses, do it too fast over surfaces their horses are not used to handling barefoot.( They can possibly handle those surfaces in shoes, but not barefoot).

By conditioning, I mean find a kind surface. For example my home training track is a mixture of sand, dirt and very little stone dust, so it is the perfect surface for me to condition my horse's feet as well as his body. When I started him back into racehorse training, I did not trim his feet. I started with 1 mile and kept him there to see how much wear his feet could deal with. Over a period of 2 months, we got up to 5 + miles a day. The only trimming I did was to any chips or pieces of hoof wall that were or looked to be ready to chip.

You have to get to a point where the amount of growth is equal to or greater than the amount of wear, more growth more miles, too much wear back off the miles. After 2 months he started to train, slow at first. The first thing I noticed was how secure he was on the track barefoot. He never felt like this with shoes, he was always floundering, never seemed to be gaited right, gaited balance(not hoof balance) was always an issue with him. Barefoot I had none of these problems. He continued to train down, until I had gone all I could go on my home track. Then I had to take him to a regular stone dust track, which is very abrasive. I limited how much work he did over the stone dust track until I felt ( and his feet showed me that he could handle it) His feet showed me what he could and couldn't handle by self trimming themselves to be shorter and more compact. So from the beginning of when he started training, he has gone from an almost 5 inch toe length and a 46 degree angle to a more normal 3 5/8" toe and a 50 degree angle. His feet do not chip, very rarely do I even have to touch them and the farrier was here today and said he looks like a horse that's been turned out and not racing barefoot. SO, I have reached my goal with him. His feet are conditioned to the surfaces he needs to live and work(and race) on and basically he did it himself, with very little effort on my part. The only thing I really did was pay attention to what he and his feet told me to do and not much else.

So, my advice to you. Is figure out what surfaces your horse needs to deal with and then work him up to longer and longer periods of dealing with those surfaces.
Member:
zaza

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 - 5:18 pm:

Thank you rtrotter for the in depth description to your process, it is very helpful. It is encouraging to hear success stories.
Member:
gramsey1

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 - 8:50 pm:

Let me add to rtrotter's advice . . . Yup!
Member:
paul303

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2014 - 11:01 pm:

Kim, Your horse is obviously lame. You can see it, he shows it in forward movement, and you have questionable x-rays. I've owned horses since 1971. I've encountered every lameness except broken legs in that time. When you've pursued everything...like x-rays and nerve blocks, and cannot yet settle on a diagnosis (I must say, I don't like thermography...hope you didn't spend a lot on it), my inclination has always been to ease the break over, raise the heel slightly and roll and rocker the toe. NO horse has ever suffered from these measures and many have benefited. As long as there is no evidence of an abscess, I've found a great benefit in adding Equipak which is easy to do when you add a degree pad to raise the heel. With these measures, although you may not solve the problem, your horse's discomfort should be greatly eased.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2014 - 3:49 pm:

Hello Kimber
ly,
A horse that is lame on one side and then goes lame on the other leg when blocked has a bilateral lameness. If there are some inconsistencies in the exam it would be good to repeat it and this time also block the right side to localize the problem. The article associated with this section discusses common causes of bilateral lameness. I first thought that the spot on the radiographs was calcification in the collateral cartilage but that does not make sense as it should be visible in the obliqued image. Perhaps in this direction the calcification is quite thin and in the other it superimposes over itself.
DrO
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC