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  Discussion on Seizure, cold back, HYPP??? 6yr. old Paint mare.
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 1999 - 5:48 pm:

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, and I'm correct in creating a new conversation.

About three weeks ago, my wife and her trainer/friend were readying our gelding and mare for a trail ride. My wife was tacking our mare, Janie. She cinched her english girth strap - perhaps suddenly, and definately all the way! Janie's front legs buckled. Her back legs supported her rear, but her chest was on the ground, and her neck was stretched by her cross ties. I released the cross ties and let her head lay crumpled among her limp front legs. She seemed to be in seizure, but no choking or shaking. Her eyes were open but glazed and unresponsive. Her mouth had grass in it and her teeth were clinched. This went on (or nothing else happened) for about 15 seconds. There was no movement, but perhaps her hind end quivered a little. I touched her hind end - kind of to keep her from falling over - and she jumped up. I don't know if the touch triggered her jumping up, but I do think she was aware that she was holding her butt up. So I guess maybe when I moved back there and pushed, she figured it was time to get up. My wife walked her around the yard a couple of minutes letting her graze. Janie seemed unperturbed and calm. So my wife and her trainer/friend went for a 2 hour uneventful and totally pleasant trail ride.

First thing I did was to check her papers for Impressive bloodline. Her papers only go back 4 generations, and no names sound Impressive. I went to the web and was able to go back another generation or two in a couple of lines. While I can't rule out Impressive, nothing in her papers indicate that and the previous owner assures us she is not from Impressive.

The previous owner said there is a thing called "cold back" in which a horse collapses during cinching. She said this is something like a kung-fu person pinching some nerve in a person's neck and making them fall down. Another person whom we respect in horse matters confirms this type of pinch paralysis, and adds that it can be associated with a cold horse that's not altogether prepared for tacking (it is getting colder here, and we did just walk up, halter, cross tie, brush, and tack).

I found a discussion here on cold back, but that seems associated with tenderness resulting in bucking. I never found any other mention of cold back on the web. I found things about "tying up synDrOme", but that didn't sound like an unresponsive or catatonic period. Descriptions of HYPP episodes indicate they happen suddenly, can last a short period, and that the horse seems fine as soon as they are over. HYPP sounds the closest, but we've only seen this once in 10 months. The previous owner bought Janie at 8 months and trained her daily until we bought her. She never saw this event/behavior in Janie.

I guess I've given enough detail. I'd appreciate any insight you can give.

John Dowdy

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 1999 - 8:31 pm:

John, I had that same experience several years ago. I had the gelding on crossties and the horse was very content and motionless. I put the saddle on and immediately girthed up....too tight too fast! The horse immediately went down for a few seconds and then got up somewhat daized as to what happened to him.

I know now that I was too quick in tightening the girth especially when he was more or less unaware of anything around him (sleeping?!?). I shocked him and it was almost like he couldn't catch his breath. It never happened again, because I made it a point to make sure he was aware of what was going on prior to girthing and I no longer tighten the girth right away. I let them has a breather in between the tightening. So I wouldn't be overly concerned as to what happened at this time. Just imagine someone putting a corsette on your waist/ab area and then tightening it on the shortest notch without letting you exhale first!

Hope I helped a little. Jo

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 1999 - 7:45 am:

Hello John and Jo,
Well this is a surprisly common phenomenea and yes these do look like seizures. I have gone as far as taping them andwatching in slow motion for clues and I still am not 100% sure. It sort of strikes me as a narcoleptic type seizure since they do not have uncontollable tonic/clonic like seizure movements and they are arousable. Some horses will do this in cross ties without the cinching. Some during brushing in cross ties.

You have found the cure: cinch slowly.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 1999 - 7:48 am:

Hello John and Jo,
Well this is a surprisly common phenomenea and yes these do look like seizures. I have gone as far as taping them andwatching in slow motion for clues and I still am not 100% sure. It sort of strikes me as a narcoleptic type seizure since they do not have uncontollable tonic/clonic like seizure movements and they are arousable. Some horses will do this in cross ties without the cinching. Some during brushing in cross ties.

You have found the cure: cinch slowly.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 1999 - 1:43 pm:

Thanks Jo, and Dr O!

I appreciate the quick and personal response from both of you. I am satisfied that Janie was just snoozing a little and that my wife cinched too quickly. It was scary though!

Thanks again,

John Dowdy

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 1999 - 2:32 pm:

What are cross ties? If they are a form of side rein why on earth are they connected at all when you are just getting tacked up? Look forward to understanding better before commenting...

Imogen

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 1999 - 3:53 pm:

Let's see if I can describe what I call cross-ties. We put the halter on our horse and stand her in the aisle of our barn. On each side of the aisle, I have a hook which holds a 7' rope with a snap hook on each end. The horse stands in the aisle and I clip one rope to each side of the halter. The horse stands calmly while we brush, tack, etc. The horse can move her head up, down, side to side, and can walk forward and backward about 2'. Ideally, she doesn't move at all - just stands still because she's tied to both sides of the aisle. Our gelding doesn't cross tie, but our mare does fine (except this one time). I don't know why they're called cross-ties since they don't cross.

Posted on Thursday, Oct 28, 1999 - 2:03 pm:

Dr. O : Do these narcoleptic-type seizures only happen when a horse is on cross-ties? Does it ever happen when the horse is standing quietly, not tied, in a loose box? Or grazing?

Alexa

Posted on Friday, Oct 29, 1999 - 8:04 am:

No, I have known one that does it while eating and a stallion that does it during intercourse. Classic times for a narcolleptic seizure in people.
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 30, 1999 - 1:49 pm:

The seizure thing sounds very interesting but could there be a simpler explanation?

I was just wondering if these cross tie things force the horse's head down as well as keeping them in one place. If they do I definitely wouldn't use them when tightening the girth since some horses like to put their heads up a little when the girth is tightened, particularly if they are also the kind of horses that like to blow out. Try this. Tighten your own belt hard. Now put your chin down on your chest, and breathe in (which is what many horses do when you try to tighten the girth). Not very comfortable, is it?

Is there a reason why the horse can't just be ordinarily tied up to a single ring by a single rope?

All the best

Imogen

Posted on Sunday, Oct 31, 1999 - 9:35 am:

Crossties or not, when something is not used properly you will always have problems. Crossties are not suppose to be used to put (force) the horses head in a certain position. There is freedom of head movement and depending on the type of material the ties are made of, there is alot of give to them. They are used to keep the horse from roaming around while being groomed and tacked up. Using crosstimes or a single ring tie can be a personal preference upon the owner/trainer. Prior to being put on crossties or a single ring, the animal should be trained/conditioned to stop pulling once pressure is applied.

If a horse is trained to stand quietly with the lead rope on the ground that's fine too. The "seizure" can happen tied or not. Always use common sense and patience when girthing, just like anything else you do.
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