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  Discussion on Severe muscle wound on forearm of foal...need advice
Author Message
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 9:34 pm:

Sir,
On Sat evening, neighbors of the barn where we board bought a seven month old colt from auction. He had never been weaned from his mother and that night at his new home he tangled himself in a barbed wire fence. The new owners found him in the morning after he practically ripped off the entire muscle on his right forearm. He also had a deep lacerations to the right shoulder and his left knee and had lost allot of blood.
They took him to the local cow vet (as no one else was available) and the vet, under mild sedation, excised the muscle flap as well as the skin leaving a huge gaping hole. He said it was unviable tissue but had to clamp two bleeders when removing the muscle. The new surgical wound is approximately 6 x 5 and an inch deep. It also tracks up about two inches on the proximal edge of the wound to the bone. No IV fluids were used to replace lost blood volume and the other deep wounds were left open.
The vet then covered the wound with aluminum spray and told the owner to take him home. We are all surprised that he did not recommend transport to inpatient care, although the nearest clinic with such capabilities is 2 hrs away.
The owner was told to lavage the wound with water daily, administer 20 cc of Penicillin QD, and cover with the aluminum spray. They were also instructed to Bute him. The vet did not dress the wound as "it's impossible to dress a wound near the elbow".
The new owner, in shock himself, then took him to our barn immediately after because he needs to be stalled, and the poor thing collapsed in the driveway for four hours right out of the trailer. My instructor happened to be at the barn and stayed with him with his head in her lap worried that he was going into shock and was going to die right there. His mucous membranes were dehydrated and he was lethargic. They called another vet who said if he indeed was in shock there was nothing he could do because of how far away he was.
Thank goodness, four hours later the colt rose and they used their arms linked behind his hind quarters to lead him to the stall. The wound is horrific and it's a bit distressing to see this colt and his condition today.
Anyway, the owner had to leave town this morning and his wife just gave birth so they are leaving his medical care up to the barn managers...so we are all lending a hand because they can not handle him either.
The colt is scared and won't allow anyone to halter him, and he is not broke to lead. He has sustained further wounds from rearing. He is also chewing on the open wound and licking off the aluminum spray.
I asked the wife of the man who bought him, when she stopped by today if she had any discharge instructions for his wound care. She said she did not, and her husband was away on business as of this morning, so she said it was okay to write the site.
When I left this evening he was drinking, urinating, stooling, and afebrile.
Unfortunately, no one can get near him safely to give him his antibiotics however we were able to lavage the wound with a syringe and apply the spray this evening through the bars in the stall.

Our assessment at the barn is the colt needs inpatient care or at least a vet to come daily and sedate him to do the wound care and give the penicillin.

If the owners are not amenable to that idea.

1. Should the wound be open? Or should we make an attempt to dress it. He is a stall with shavings. Would you recommend they switch to straw to prevent further contamination?

2. If we are to dress it what type of dressing. How about telfa, and a diaper for padding then vet wrap? (I have read all the wound care articles)

3. If it’s left open how can we prevent him from chewing on it. I have heard you can collar them? Where can we get one?

4. If the vet doesn’t come for daily bute injections and wound care, and we can not give the antibiotic injections because we can not get near him, what are the chances that a wound of this magnitude will heal on it's own, via secondary intention, completely open to the elements without infection? Is there any oral pain meds we can give?


I have permission to send pics tomorrow. And will do so in the morning. There is no other history to give on this poor boy.

Any information anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.


v/r
Corinne
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 10:23 pm:

Wow! this is like a worse case/nightmare scenario. The poor little thing! Imagine; torn away from his mother, and all this happening. Someone needs to spend the time to let him get to know them and to gain some trust. This needs to be done not only so he can be treated, but also for his future relations with people. You might need drugs at first, if he isn't hospitalized. Dr. O. can advise you on the medical needs; but someone needs to take the time to just sit in the stall with the colt so he can et used to people.

At first sit in the stall and ignore him. Read a book, listen to music, etc. and let him sniff you and figure out you aren't going to hurt him; then go from there. Poor baby. I'm glad you and your barn friends are willing to help.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Monday, Oct 17, 2005 - 11:45 pm:

Sara,
I was about in tears myself when I saw this little guy today. I feel so bad for him. We did try to console him a little this evening prior to doing the wound care. And he did not protest to the wound care but we couldn't get in there real good. Your right it's a trust thing. Right now, humans are not his friends.
We were also letting him get used to our scent, giving a tiny breath near his nostrils so he would recognize us. Small touches, nothing too quick, a soft voice.
Because the family is overwelmed with a new baby and a husband on busniess trips each week, already, there has been an offer to assume his care in exchange for them giving the horse to our friend who could take him home and rehabilitate him where he will have an experienced eye on him 24 hours a day as unfortunately, our barn managers aren't there during the day.....so he is all alone.
We have each spent some time with him today and I will go up prior to riding to just spend some time with the scared boy. The new owner came up about four times just to check on him but with the baby in tow she couldn't spend time with him.
Right now we are most concerned with the wound and the instructions that were given for it's care. My instructor said she has never seen a wound where muscle in that large amount was removed and then left completely open. In her 22 years of horse experience she said it's the worst wound she has ever seen....I think the most horrible thing it that it's just a baby and all he wanted to do was get to his mother.....(there were mares in the next field and perhaps he was seeking them out for comfort) The people who bought him did not know that he was not weaned until that day.
I have never allowed my horse to be in anything other than horse safe fencing but unfortunately, alot of people around here used barbed wire....if they could see this baby...perhaps it would change their mind.
Well...take care...we will look after him best we can.

Corinne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 7:22 am:

As close as possible Corinne follow the instructions in the article on Long Term Wound Care. If you cannot give injections of antibiotics you should definitely start the colt on oral antibiotics (TMP-SMZ?). Tetanus prophylaxis is a must.

I would not dress a wound in this location partialy because of the difficulties involved in keeping it up and partially because of the difficulty in applying such a bandage to an uncooperative patient. It is uncertain that chewing on it is going to be a problem and if you find soiled shavings are contaminating the wound, yes, straw might be preferable. If chewing becomes a problem, cradles can be bought or made. I would check out Nasco first.

Without a careful exam it is difficult to prognose the wound but there are very few that won't heal with time and good care. Without good care things don't sound so good for such an extensive wound. Bute or banamine can be given orally but I would concentrate on getting the antibiotic in.
DrO
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 11:47 am:

Sir,
Thanks for the fast reply.
I will forward this information on to the owners and will make copies of the wound care articles to share with them. The vet is coming back out today to clean the wound and give his meds....as one person has already been struck in the head with that front leg when he reared (it was the owner before he left town). We can only hope for the best....for the poor guy....and anyone that has to handle him because doing anything other than saying hello is causing the colt to panic. He even broke the top of the stall which is ten feet high when he reared without provocation, by himself. Blood from the wounds is sprayed everywhere.
The barn managers are trying everything they can to remove anything that could be dangerous
and are also switching to straw.
Someone also removed the ill fitting head collar he came with so he wouldn't choke himself.

Any suggestions on how we keep him safe from himself? I think getting his trust would help but no one can get close enough for too long.

Can't get out there to take pics as I have the flu but will do so on Wed.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Take care,
Corinne
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 12:16 pm:

Dr O

Would it be advisable to sedate this little guy with some oral tranq in his feed at this point so that they can get a hold of him and prevent him from being a further danger to himself and everyone else?

It sounds like a dreadful situation right now with him flinging himself around the stall.
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 1:53 pm:

While the vet is there, get a halter and a long lead rope on him so you can get some control. Then, whenever anyone has time, have them go in, grab the rope, and let him get calmed down and handle him when he isn't getting treated. Possibly a little ace in his feed before having to treat would help? How bad of an effect would that have on him Dr. O since they are between a rock and a hard place? EO
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 3:53 pm:

He has never eaten grain, so hopefully if feed through tranq is recommended he will eat it.
There is no way to get paste of any kind down him.
Everyone is scared of handling him but we are trying anyway....Will let you know what the vet says.
Talking with the other boarders we all agree that he needs inpatient care at a facility that can deal with his injuries but we don't think that's an option for the owners.
They are also looking for someone who they can give him to who can give him the appropriate attention he needs.
So that's another goal now...asking around for someone who wants a wounded colt who may not survive. If I could I would take him but my other horse is already breaking our bank.
If there are any horse lovers in ND who want to take on this foal....please email me at my email address on my profile. He is beautiful but scared and hurt. My heart aches for him.

Say prayers we can treat him until he finds a new home...

Corinne
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 4:21 pm:

Wish I was in ND, Corinne. Poor little fella. Gosh . . .
Still, I don't know if moving him again is the best answer. Who do you have there who can give up a few days to just sit with him? Sara is right about the best method to desensitize him . . . He just needs human closeness with as little forcing as is possible. It is imperative that he get antibiotics. SulfamethoxizoleTrimethoprim is easily dissolved in water or easily crushed and sprinkled on "tacky" grain or dampened pellets, and it is supposed to have almost no taste. How 'bout some dampened Calf Manna pellets? Just enough for him to get the meds?

I have found that if I make myself small (crouch down or sit on the ground) that some frightened horses are much more willing to accept my presence and will eventually come over to investigate. If I were there, I would sit with a dish or bucket of medicated pellets in my lap or on the ground by my feet while I wrote Christmas cards or worked on embroidery or read the latest best seller . . . and just hummed or sang softly . . . and would try to let him acclimate.
I just hate barbed wire . . . I detest the stuff. Horses and barbed wire just don't mix. I have seen so many scarred horses here in the west . . . and heard horrendous stories of horses running through fences and fileting their chest muscles and slicing through arteries . . . Corinne, bless you for caring and suffering for this little fellow.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 4:29 pm:

P.S. Corinne . . . I didn't see a personal e-mail address for you on your profile. I have a good friend who is working in Parachute, CO, right now during the Lyons's select certified trainers who are there for a clinic. I have asked him to let me know if there is anyone there who is from or has contacts in ND. If you post your e-mail address or send it to me (hollysjubilee@hotmail.com) I will send you any information he sends back to me or, if it's okay with you, have him contact you directly.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 5:02 pm:

Holly - exactly what I had in mind. That is the way I got our wild burro and her filly to trust me; I just sat in their pen every spare minute I had and read out loud to them, hummed, etc. while sitting next to a tub of grain. With a youngster I'm sure it would work as they are so curious.

It's too bad this little guy's owners chose this time in their lives to decide to have a horse, and that they chose to get such a young one - and then to not be aware the poor thing hadn't been weaned......it's just been one bad judgement call after another with him it seems, and he's suffering because of it. Good thing I don't live anywhere nearby!!
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 5:25 pm:

Ladies,
Thanks for all the advice. We are absorbing as much as we can.
My instructor is on her way up to the barn to check the situation out.
Holly thanks for offering to post the information. My email address is LtSassy1@aol.com.
Currently, and unless something changes, there is a saint of lady horsewoman three miles down the road who has offered to take him on. She is also willing to take the next two weeks off from work to be with him. All she has asked is that the owners have the equine vet from McClusky, two hours away, come and give an accurate assessment of his condition. That Doc is my horses vet and we all trust him. Doc will put it out on the table and say whether he thinks he can survive or whether he is suffering so much that he should be humanely euthanized.
If, and we pray it's the former, she will incur expenses and take him to the equine clinic and will then move him to her home down the road and assume all care. If she moves him he will be sedated for the trip but he will be going to lovely barn with a wonderful family who is gaining nothing from this other than helping a helpless animal.
We haven't heard back from the owners yet but it's a win win situation for them....and if they allow her to take him on...(she is not made of money) we have started a save the foal fund to help her with costs.
Keep your fingers crossed.

Corinne
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 5:51 pm:

Wow, that is one awesome lady to make such a selfless offer, Corinne. I assume that if the vet thinks the little guy is salvageable and she takes him on, he is hers to keep?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that the current owners don't deserve or seem responsible enough to have him.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 6:03 pm:

Sue, Holly, and Sara,

Please check your personal email....I emailed you all to your posted addresses with some aside comments.

Yes, he will be hers to keep....

Take care guys.

Corinne
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 7:15 pm:

Good luck to all of you. I suppose it's possible the fellow who bought the colt just didn't really know what he was getting into. This should be a lesson to all about the dangers of barb wire fencing. A lot of people in the west use it, and because it work for cows they don't give it a second thought when it come to horses. Unless you have seen it, it is hard to imagine just how badly injured a horse can get when it runs into barb wire. I have seen some really horrible cases at our vets.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 7:37 pm:

Yea! The owner just emailed me and agreed to a vet check by the equine vet who can't get up here until tomorrow and has agreed to give him to our friend.
Hopefully the prognosis will be good and the baby will be off with the new owners after a short hospital stay.
If there is no hope and it is determined that he is suffering the appropriate decision will be made........although things are looking up because as of today, still no temp, no signs of infection, and he is still eating, and remains hydrated (although the wound has tracked a little deeper probably from him rearing or hitting the walls of the stall). We will inquire about sedation and feed through meds but if he is going to pull through the vet will transport him on the spot.
I guess we will see on Wed. The owner is sending pics this evening.

Take care,
Corinne
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 18, 2005 - 10:01 pm:

Sorry guys I know there have been alot of posts on this topic. One last post for the evening...I promise.
Apparently infection has set in on the left knee....and since my last post...we discovered someone had canceled the vet today, so he hasn't had any antibiotics since sunday, no pain meds and only mild wound care....although we have tried.
If the vet tomorrow says he will survive the owners have now decided they may not be giving him up....and that's their choice and we have to respect that...but that doesn't change the fact that he will need aggressive wound care and even though he is a bit more trusting today he is still to scared to let us get any meds in.
Hopefully the equine vet tomorrow will give them the straight story and allow them to make the best decision for the colt....that is if the vet will travel up here...he wanted pics tonight and if it looks to bad will probably recommend that he be put down and he won't make the barn call.

So sad...

Will keep you all posted.

Corinne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 6:26 am:

This is so discouraging Corrine. Not seeing the injury it is difficult to comment but over the years I have always been amazed at what can heal and how well it will heal with a little help. That said, if there has been unattended infection within a joint capsule for over 48 hours there will probably be long term arthritis in the joint.
DrO
Member:
Morg1

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 8:25 am:

How terrible. I agree that horses and barbed wire should be kept far, far apart. We are currently replacing barbed wire fence on land that we purchased. The only thing is that I don't really think it works for cows either. I don't know how many times I have seen a calf run through barbed wire. Just this year, I saw 5 calves (some 400 to 500 pound calves) go through barbed wire fences. Cows reach through it to graze like it's not there. I know of a barbed wire fence that is a year old that is already sagging in places, because of cows reaching through. It is the most dangerous, ineffective fence that I have ever seen.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 11:25 am:

The owner emailed me these pics this morning.
Here is the forearm last evening. Looking straight on, on the proximal edge of the wound, on the left side, is a 3 inch wound track that is not visible. Sorry about the aluminum spray but no one could get near enough to clean it off.

Forearm injury
Member:
Dres

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 12:11 pm:

I have seen much worse... and they have come thru.. all tho we were able to medicate them as well... I wish you all luck....

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 12:53 pm:

This is a different vantage and includes the shoulder injury and his cute little face!
You can't see the left knee but it's doubled in size.

forearm and shoulder

We believe that they are all manageable injuries but no one can get near him to handle him without risking injury to himself or to us. He is refusing grain so feed through traqulizers might not work.

Please let me know what the risks are of not performing daily wound care and med administration...so that I may pass the information on to the owners....so that armed with the all the facts they might make the best decision to move him to a facility that can care for him.

Not sure if I posted this with the last pic but the cow vet is coming out today to sedate him, to clean the wounds and give his meds, and the pics have been sent to the equine vet for his recommendations as well.

Our hope is that he will be moved some place
that can assume his care, as the owners are gone often and we can't all be there all the time as boarders because we all have jobs etc....besides it's hard for us because we can't make decisions about his care.

Take care,
Corinne
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 2:00 pm:

I, too, have seen much worse, but again the wounds were treated. Dr.O would have to be the one to give you a prognosis without treatment, and I'm not sure even he can do that long distance. From what I can see, if he'd just trust someone to treat him, he would heal up pretty good I think. Poor guy!

This whole episode sure highlights the needs for foals to be handled from day one, doesn't it?!
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 6:33 pm:

Well good news. Looks like there has been a turn for the best. The local vet came out today and was able to successfully sedate him, clean his wound and administer antibiotics. Although he didn't give instructions on wound care...other than to keep it clean.
The baby is starting to trust a little bit more and allowed saline lavage and poultice application long after the sedation has warn off.
The owners were also given oral paste antibiotics that my instructor was able to get in.....so we will all help out as we don't want the new mom owner to get hurt....can't say for sure if he will be like that every time but at least it's a start.
The vet was more concerned about that left knee but after examination thought it just might be dependant edema (even with the wound)...so we will have to see about that one.
He recommended hand walking...which might be a little far off at this point but it looks like he is staying at the barn for now and we are making progress.
The other owner is coming home tomorrow....
Thanks for all your well wishes.

v/r
Corinne
Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 8:11 pm:

Well if everything is done right, this baby will be totally broke by the time it is healed. Some of the best bonding I've had with my horses has been nursing them back from an injury.
Member:
Sonoita

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 10:02 pm:

When he heals what do the owners plan on doing with him? It sounds to me like the owners do not have a clue. And letting someone else do the medicating or taking care of him is very irresponsible. I do not understand how they could not let someone else who really cared about the well being of the colt have him. What is wrong with these people.
I think the colt will heal , but what becomes of him after?
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 - 10:38 pm:

WIll give more details in am....tooo tired.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 6:26 am:

What type of poultice are you trying to put on the wound Corinne?
DrO
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 10:02 am:

Sir,
I haven't been to the barn in two days because I have had the flu but I think they applied Animalintex? on the left knee which he allowed only one person to do...I suspect my friend was trying to get some of the pus/exudate to drain. I have read some on poultice and I presume they work using osmotic pressure much like a wet to dry dressing?
She has also been able to get a halter on him and will try to lead him around a bit and has offered to take him on as well...

Corinne
Member:
Annes

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 11:07 am:

This little colt is so lucky now to have so many people caring and looking out for him. I was so happy to read that the vet was successful in treating him. Animals understand when people are trying to help them. I continue to hope and pray that the owners will watch out for him in the future. I hope he will have a "buddy" to be a caretaker horse for him when he can leave the stall.
Member:
Sparky

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 11:26 am:

Corrine - I helped a friend with a similar wound to their colt. He also was not halter broke and had not been handled. Once we got the halter on him we left it on so that someone could just clip the halter rope on. We managed his wound without sedating him by using the big gate in their round pen as a squeeze. the halter rope was long enough to get good wrap on the post to winch him in. Then the gate was closed on him to snug him up to the fence. He really struggled in the beginning and it looked pretty frightening but he could not hurt himself and he soon realized that he was in a safe tight spot and co-operated. We used the gate for a long time as to protect him and us. We also used old shirts as bandages - see pictures in the post of Care - Tips and Tricks 2004 - Wound protection posted 8/18/04
With time and the constant handling he became managable and the wound healed very well. If there is any kind of a good gate and fence combination anywhere it would be well worth a try. We did the fly around the stall and pen thing just trying to give him his medication also. It was quite an ordeal. It was when another friend came along and looked at us like we were nuts and he showed us how to use the gate. You do need at least 2-3 people to make it work in the beginning. We were able to clean and dress the wound consistantly. He learned to step into the sleves to get his shirt on. We also tied the gate behind him to hold it secure. Good luck
Janet Schmidt
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 1:20 pm:

Wow, Janet. Great ideas aboout the improvised squeeze and the shirts as bandadges. I must have missed those postings. Thanks for sharing.
Member:
Sparky

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 1:56 pm:

I forgot to mention to make sure that your equipment is all in really good shape and up to the test because the halter will really get a work out. He must get snugged up to the post pretty short. We had no problem giving him his shots and hosing the legs this way. We also had someone petting him and talking to him in a calm soothing voice. The owner did put a small rubber stall mat right in the area under the squeeze area that helped keep things clean and not turn into a mud puddle.
Janet
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 3:16 pm:

Corinne,
I've been following this thread since it started. I have to say you and your friends at your barn have been saints. I remember two years ago I went to a QH auction and purchased what I thought was a 8 month old black and white mare that I fell in love with. I realized that I had mis-calculated her age and she was 6 months old and hadn't been weaned either. Just loaded up out of a field and taken to the sale barn. I kept her stalled for two weeks working with with her every spare minute I had. The first day I put her in a small turnout pen, she jumped and fell over a four foot fence to get out with the other horses. Only a sprain and back to the stall for another two weeks. I look at your poor baby and think about what could have happened to mine if I hadn't realized what was going on and just turned her out.
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 3:26 pm:

Corinne,
I've been following this thread since it started. I have to say you and your friends at your barn have been saints. I remember two years ago I went to a QH auction and purchased what I thought was a 8 month old black and white mare that I fell in love with. I realized that I had mis-calculated her age and she was 6 months old and hadn't been weaned either. Just loaded up out of a field and taken to the sale barn. I kept her stalled for two weeks working with with her every spare minute I had. The first day I put her in a small turnout pen, she jumped and fell over a four foot fence to get out with the other horses. Only a sprain and back to the stall for another two weeks. I look at your poor baby and think about what could have happened to mine if I hadn't realized what was going on and just turned her out.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 5:14 pm:

Hello all! Just in from errands and the barn. I was able to spend at least 40 minutes with Oatmeal in his stall singing to him. My instructor has done wonders with him....and they have developed a strong bond. He nuzzled and was playful grabbing my ponytail and trying to eat my jacket.
Someone (although not sure who? maybe the barn managers) had wrapped the knee but since we were told by, not only Dr O, but the equine vet who has been consulting via pictures to leave his wounds open to air, I was asked by my instructor (who was at work) to remove it (obviously with the blessings of the owner)and he licked with relief to have the bandage off.
His left knee looks infected and is warm to touch but now his knee on the forearm injury site is huge. The forearm injury is weepy with pus and he has torn a bit of the flesh from the distal (towards the hoof) wound edges. He is also now hopping lame on both front legs.
I spoke to the owners this afternoon and they had not been out to give his meds because the kids were out of school. Not sure if this is only for humans, but don't you need to keep the antibiotic levels going with regular timed dosing the same time each day to ensure adequate blood levels? He was due at noon....coach will give it when she gets there after work to check on him and clean his wound.
With intermittent care givers I suggested today that we put up a wound and med schedule to ensure that duplicate treatments are not given or missed.
I also asked about his pain meds and the owner said she thinks the barn managers dissolved his bute in his water bucket. I don't think that dissolving the med in a five pound bucket would ensure he was getting his pain meds and my instructor agrees and had unfortunately, relayed all the same information last night.....she recommended they give the bute with a bit of molasses.

Once again....we are not the owners....

All great ideas by the way for helping us handle him. I will continue to pass these posts on...

Oatmeal thanks you! I have to run and teach a yoga class. Take care.

v/r
Corinne
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Oct 20, 2005 - 5:22 pm:

A white board with med schedule and messages is imperative when there are so many care-givers and chances for miscommunications. Make sure everyone is "on the same page" with directions and measurements . . . Good thinking, Corinne.

Poor little guy may have all ready been a trusting fellow before all of this caos in his life, so "bravo!" to all of you for your patience and compassion to gain his trust.

Bute can be ground with baby carrots, baby applesauce or thinned molasses or honey and given like paste wormer with a syringe. It is probably the best way to insure he is getting the proper dosage at the proper time.

Bless all of your hearts . . . especially little Oatmeal's.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 7:03 am:

I am uncertain that Animalintex is suitable for an open wound like this, I went to the site and could not find its composition, is it listed on the box? I would be using the recommendations in the article on long term wound care for topical treatment.

Are you aggressively hosing this wound daily? If you are it should be mainly serum exudation but not purulent.
DrO
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 1:07 pm:

Sir,
Last time I spoke to my instructor on the issue she said she used the poultice on the left knee on Wed, the knee that has the small laceration but is severely swollen, to encourage draining and decrease some inflammation, she has never used it on the forearm.
When I go up for lessons I will get a wrapper and will forward it's composition so you can let us know whether it's appropriate on the swollen knee.
When I saw him yesterday afternoon I just removed the dressing on the left knee that someone had put on and put a little more aluminum on the deep wound on the right as the owners said they were doing wound care in the afternoon. From what I could see the drainage was definitely purulent from all wounds. He looks allot worse than the initially posted photos. Will take more this afternoon. Perhaps the lack of antibiotics is now catching up with him.
The one owner came up and lavaged the wound for 10 minutes total, for all wounds, last evening (although it was recommended for longer) She said she walked him a bit but did no other wound care. She took the recommendation for the bute....I think he ate the bute with applesauce.
The husband is coming home today and will be briefed on exactly what is needed to prevent his declining health from getting worse. He goes away for three days a week, every week, and the wife has the new baby so her time is limited. I say we just take up a collection and buy him....but some think that they are not going to take us up on that either.
Will have to wait and see...should be an interesting afternoon at the barn with all of us there at the same time....all with very emotional opinions regarding the health of this animal.
The whole situation has really stressed us out as we can't think of anything other than poor Oatmeal.

Take care and thanks for checking the poultice out.

v/r
Corinne
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 1:43 pm:

If anyone would like to email me personally, to discuss this issue outside of the forum...feel free! LtSassy1@aol.com
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 8:57 pm:

With great sadness I must say that this afternoon didn't go well....so I forgot to get the poultice instructions.

I offered to buy Oatmeal myself (would worry about the money later) but the owners said they had "grown too attached" and are now providing all his care. The husband came home today and has not even offered one thank-you to us for our help. (Not that we were doing this for thanks but it attests to his character)

Neither has spent any time with him until last evening (30 minutes and today for an hour while the kids were alone in the car) and then unfortunately, to make matters worse, when the owner tried to walk him in the arena....the colt panicked and he pulled hard in response and he almost flipped over backwards. My instructor was yelling for him to let go! It took him a minute to do so. He inadvertently caused injury to a horse last month doing the same thing you think he would have learned.

Anyway, all that aside, the horse's spirits are high but the purulent drainage running down his knee is copious. I suspect severe infection. Hopefully they will heed our instructions to give him his meds everyday.

I had to leave the barn in disgust when instead of cold hosing his wounds...he cracked a beer and when the barn manager said he should change his name to something that could attest to his will for survival. the owner smirked and said he should be called him "nimrod" and "hamburger".


Got to go cool off. as my blood is boiling.

Thanks for everyone's support.

Will be in touch. We will keep an eye on the situation and ensure that his care is given or we will notify the people that need to know.

Sorry for the bad news....our hearts are broken...
but your support has made it easier to bear.

v/r
Corinne
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 9:26 pm:

Don't screw around with these ignorant jack@sses any longer. Get the SPCA or some such outfit to get in there and make things happen the way they should. As far as the copious stuff running down his leg, that is what those type of wounds do. Go for it as far as getting him away from these nerds. They are not horse people and should not have this one in particular. EO
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 1:14 am:

My Instructor and I would like to say...as we are sitting here late...contemplating the situation...
In regards to these people and the care of Oatmeal, there is nothing positive one can say about his owners. We have offered his owners every opportunity to remove the burden of his care from them. We are aware that the male figure of the family is away working most of the business week, the mother has four children at home the youngest of which is just two weeks old. Neither has the time to offer this young colt what he deserves, after their stupidity caused his injury. We have done everything that we can to this point to remove the burden from them. We are VERY disappointed that after previous indication that they were going to take this offer, that they have changed their mind. We believe this to be motivated by their arrogance and ego to prove that they can provide the care that he needs. We hope that they can truly provide the care this colt needs and are very deeply saddened that we can not save him at this time.
Again, we hope that they will live up to our expectations and will do EVERYTHING in our power to "pursued" them to ensure this colt's chance for maximum healing - so that this colt will have the best opportunity that can be afforded to him.
As an instructor, a "horse person" for 22 years I can honestly say I have never seen such a case of ignorance and neglect. I AM DEEPLY saddened by the this occurence. What has given me hope is that there are so many wonderful people who have offered their expertise and their contribution in what ever way, for this little guy. You truly are very amazing people. I thank you all, for what you have offered. Those of us here will do everything we can, including not telling the people, what we really truly think of them to try to encourage them to give up this guy that they cannot really help. We are doing this to try our very best to help him all we can. I do not know if we will be successful, but I can guarantee that we will take any and all action to ensure his long term survival from this injury.
The owners, for whatever reason, want to help this colt at this time, we must respect their decision and support them. We must ensure they learn the correct wound care for this little guy. It is very difficult when we see this degree of ignorance and neglect to let it pass. What we must understand, as horsepeople that is our duty to train and educate these new horse owners the correct and appropriate way to care for their new charges. It is very difficult for me to see this and not act, and it's not as though we all haven't tried, but now the owners have decided to take responsibility, it is our duty to make sure they follow through. Trust me, we will be watching them closely. We have given them the opportunity to pass on this burden to those better equipped. For what ever reason they believe they can follow through and give this weanling the care he needs. We will make sure that they do. Thank you very much for your care and concern. It means the world to all of us that there are people out there who feel the way we do. Keep praying for this little guy, and we will do all we can to keep him safe and as healthy as he can be. We will keep you updated on the situation and if it changes you will be the first to know. Thank you again.

Emma-Jane Fennell and Corinne Meadows
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 2:46 am:

I don't know what the laws on animal neglect/abuse are in your state, and it will probably take expert witness and advice to do anything legal to terminate their ownership, but if you find that the owners are not following vet's orders and the youngster is failing, and that the other horses are not getting the care they need, calling the ASPCA may be an option.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 2:56 am:

Oooo . . . sorry, EO, I didn't read your post until after I posted. After watching, ANIMAL COPS, on the Animal Planet station tonight, I'm feeling a special urgency to remove animals from ignorant owners. Ignorance is no excuse for allowing harm.

Also, I don't know what the owner meant by saying the colt's name should be Nimrod, as I understand it to mean "mighty hunter." As far as the "hamburger" joke . . . the owner is obviously devoid of empathy and compassion . . . and I wish that was enough to prohibit him from being the owner of any animal . . . I would hate to be his wife or one of his children, let alone one of his "pets."
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 5:23 am:

Dear Corinne,

I agree with Little King Ranch. Stop talking about it and have the ASPCA take the horse away from these incredibly stupid people!!!

They do not have the foals best interest at heart and it pisses me off!!!!This never would have happened had they had any horse sense!!!!!!

I would like to know what idiot sold an innocent foal to such an undeserving selfish family.

Their KARMA is coming for them. I hope they are ready.

I am sure everyone at your barn could come up with some kind of solution. It seems by your posts someone has been caring for this poor little guy.


WTG
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 5:54 am:

Still up....can't sleep.

Please don't worry as the humane society is on my speed dial.

I have already spoke to some people who have worked with the humane society here, as well as to an attorney, and they say we will never have a case for neglect as long as they are now trying to provide care...the owners have consulted with vets, are now giving his meds (they say they couldn't initially because he wouldn't allow them near him) and are providing wound care (however minimally) as well as keeping him in a stall with fresh bedding and food....regardless of the fact that they are not doing a very good job.
I wish there was some law in terms of not living up to standards I believe all animal owners should stand up to.
We are having an attorney draw up documents now that, if and when they get tired of the work by next week when the husband is gone again, and try to offer him to us again, we can have the paper work signed on the spot relinquishing all ownership so they don't keep going back and forth.
I will also be checking with the folks at the local horse auction to see if we can at least get the word out that these are not the people they want to sell their horses to.
Anything else we can try...please feel free to let us know....

Going to try to get some sleep.

v/r
Corinne Meadows
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 8:59 am:

Since they are not there, what is to keep you and others from hosing the wound if it needs it? As long as you aren't doubling up on the meds, extra work on the wound won't hurt him. I empathize with you. We now own a TB mare that we got for a nurse mare for Buzz' Dream Weaver, our orphan this year. She was skin and bones when she came, didn't work as a nurse mare but we just couldn't let her go back to her previous situation. We purchased her, got her in foal to Basket Weave and she will have a bouncing baby for us next year. She has gained about 200 pounds and looks wonderful. She has made friends and is a nice mare to be around. I also watch Animal Planet, they need more animal cops everywhere that are backed up by the justice system like they are in Houston. EO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 10:04 am:

DITTO THE WORDS HOLLYWOOD AND EO!!!!!!!! There have been so many times in the past, I just "secretly" cared for an animal either against the wishes of the owner, or without their knowledge. I suppose it may be illegal, BUT ... my advice in almost any circumstance, follow your heart! Which, I have a feeling, is what you are doing! God bless you in your efforts,
Nancy
P.S. EO, my vet rescued four PMU mares, and they are carrying embryos this year ... in a big pasture with all the water they can drink! Makes me so happy just to see them!
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 10:20 am:

If you want to prove neglect and eventually retreive ownership of the colt, I don't think it is wise to help the owners with care . . . otherwise, how can you prove that their care is lacking? On the other hand, if you believe the owners' procrastination and inactivity stem from their fear because of lack of knowledge . . . then your care can be part of their education in learning to be good horse owners.
Member:
Onehorse

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 11:19 am:

I ditto all of the above-- especially Little King Ranch/EO and Holly'ssuggestions to involve authorities -- however, since this has failed (based on lawyers assessment) perhaps you can implore the owner to bring the horse to your friend who offered to care and administer treatment to Oatmeal and have the owner pay for such care to bring the horse back to health. Perhaps it's a long shot but since they want to keep the horse (who knows why) perhaps you can appeal to them that it would be more economical in the long run, i.e., concentrated and consistent care will revive the horse quicker than intermittent care.

Also, I agree, again, with Holly: point out that the 'good will' of the barn managers, you, your trainer and others will no longer be available and if the horses health deteriorates you all will move to get the authorities involved.

I think I speak for all of us who have followed this string: Corinne, you and your fellow caretakers of Oatmeal are incredible people, generous, and absolutely deserving of all animal lovers gratitude, thanks and admiration.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 1:20 pm:

Little King, Holly, WTG, Rick and anyone I may have forgotten.
What seems to be working at this point is calling when the care or meds need to be given (they live one block down the road...which I think is a sad)
and reminding them it needs to be done. Then when they show up giving advice etc.
But how do you prevent them from being stupid when we are not there? The majority of us live about 20 minutes from the barn. One of the boarders arrived after they did wound care and saw Mane and Tail shampoo and dirty sponges in the shower stall. She suspects they may have cleaned the wounds with it. Now they have been sent the wound care articles, it's been drilled into their heads what needs to be done....I even bought them gloves so they don't care for the wound with dirty hands and we all reiterate what needs to be done everytime we see them but it seems to fall on deaf ears. They try to do whats right we are standing there but then you find evidence of stupidity when they have been there when we have not.
I do like the idea of perhaps offering to send him to our friends and to have them pay for his rehab...will suggest it....suspect he is going to say again...that well if you all can do it...so can we. But it's worth a shot.
The other comment I made to both of them is that they can not leave the baby in the running car, with a four year old for an hour while one of them (whoever is there at the time) is in with the foal...which is what she was planning on doing next week when he was gone. She looked shocked when I said that...but as a medical professional I am obligated by law to report cases of neglect with children as well.
Anyway, I have totally been scrimping on grad school this week taking care of this so I am taking the day off from worrying and getting some work done.
Have a blessed day.
New Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 2:02 pm:

My goodness, I cannot believe what I have read here today. I know that the people who have posted here are truly nice and caring people and it’s unfortunate that you have been misled by the people posting the condition of our horse on this site.

Before I go any further, I want to say that the people who have posted such negative things are people we trusted and respected and it has hurt us deeply that they would say such hurtful things behind our back, without even really knowing us.

Let me start by saying that this colt is a very sweet and gentle, easy to work with young horse. All of the advice given to us by these people we considered friends, either through the local vet or this website; we have taken to heart and done - everything. He is not the crazed, unmanageable horse described in previous days. He allows us to work with him without any resistance including giving him shots, irrigating the wound, and leading him around for exercise. He even enters the small, enclosed wash rack with little hesitation. We live just minutes from the barn and go down there several times a day to check on the little guy and work with him. He is definitely not being neglected. We are very responsible, caring owners and spare no expense to make sure his recovery is a comfortable and safe one. My husband has been around livestock and horses nearly all of his life and his family owns two horse ranches in Texas and his aunt in Arizona owns a horse rescue. We have been in constant contact with them and have sent them pictures and they have been giving us advice as well as talking with their vets to find the best treatment for this little guy. We are definitely not stupid or incompetent, and as stated earlier, we have done everything asked of us. Keep in mind; it has been less than a week since this injury occurred.

There have been other things said, e.g. the horse names my husband was using in jest to the stable owner. This is a traumatic situation and he was trying to lighten the mood, we would never name a horse something so mean. Along this same line, speaking to the lead rope incidents, what was not mentioned is that in the one incident, my 8-year-old daughter was on the particular horse and spooked. My husband was merely trying to make sure our daughter was not injured and the horse was not injured as previously stated. As to yesterday's incident, the instructor came into the arena with a horse and spooked the colt. My husband did not want Oatmeal to hurt himself or the other horse so he held the rope and lead him around until he calmed down.

Lastly, I would like invite any vet or the ASPCA to com out and inspect this horse. We have had two vets personally come out and another one here in North Dakota look at pictures. Besides this, we have had a vet in Arizona also look at other pictures we took and have been given additional care instructions from him. We are also having some wound medicine not found locally mailed to us that we can start using this on him. He is getting his daily dose of antibiotics and anti-inflammatories, being exercised daily, and having his wound washed daily as well. Please remember, just because these people don’t see us at the barn does not mean we are not there.

Again, we only want people to know our side of this unfortunate story as well as address these unsubstantiated, mean-spirited remarks by people we thought were trying to help. We should all be focusing on the care of this sweet little colt, rather than spending time slamming the owners in a public forum. We will keep all of you aware of how he is doing. What we need right now is support, not criticism and any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thank you and God bless.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 2:06 pm:

No names were ever mentioned! Thanks
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 3:23 pm:

Dear Oatmeal's Caretakers,

I've been following Oatmeal's saga.

I feel terrible for a baby to suffer such an injury. I believe barbed wire has no place near horses, especially babies just weaned and brought to a new farm. I tried for months to help save a friend's horse from a barbed wire cut. In the end she needed to be put down.

I hope you have had a vet out recently to check on the progress of the wounds. That is where you will get the best advice on caring for this colt. I would also recommend, if he isn't on them already, an ulcer preventative. Are you able to monitor his temperature?
I truly hope Oatmeal receives the care he needs and survives his injuries.


-Barbara
Member:
Lilly

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 5:49 pm:

Barbara- You are absolutely right about the barbed wire. If Oatmeal's owners are truly concerned about his welfare, and the other horses welfare, they will replace all of the barbed wire immediately. There are plenty of cheap alternatives. Of course they would have to hurry up because it's already been snowing in North Dakota and pretty soon the ground will be frozen solid. I lived in ND for 3.5 years. The winters there are brutal.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 6:46 pm:

Mrs. Rascoe,
Obviously, emotions run very high when the welfare of a living being, especially an animal or a child, is at stake. Thank you for assuring us of your dedication to Oatmeal's well-being, and please don't fault others for their dismay at Oatmeal's condition following the incident. The accident could have been avoided if he hadn't been turned out in barbed wire . . . a very dangerous fence for any colt, let alone one coming to a new home, and one just removed from his dam.
Most of us members of The Horseman's Advisor take the care of our horses, and all animals, quite seriously, and that is why we belong to a site that helps answer our questions about the best horse care methods available.
I am relieved to hear of your efforts on Oatmeal's behalf and ask that you continue to post pics and keep us updated on his progress. Oatmeal has many friends here, and if your assurances are true, then I know his friends will be your friends, too.
Welcome to HA.
Member:
Onehorse

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 7:14 pm:

Mrs. Rascoe,

Clearly the people at your barn have been giving you and your family a helping hand with Oatmeal; and further, the communication between them and you has somehow deteriorated or they feel underappreciated. Whether it is true or not they believe (based on the postings) that responsibility for Oatmeal's care is amiss.

Holly's suggestion that a board for all those lending a hand document what is being administered and who and when they are attending Oatmeal would certainly clear any misunderstandings. Consider it. It would go a long way for people to see that you and your husband have been doing the right thing.

There is an old adage that says there are two sides to every story ... and then there's the truth.

I am glad to hear your side of this situation and simply hope all that can be done is done for Oatmeal. Oatmeal seems to be surrounded by caring people and owners. Try to figure out a way for 'all to get along' and clear the air.

Welcome to HA. You, your family and Oatmeal now have even more people to assist.
New Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 10:17 pm:

First, I agree, barbed wire is not the way to go, one portion of my pasture is, this is my neighbors and I have not finished putting up electrobraid on my side of his fence. The rest of our fencing is 4 foot horse fence, so I know we won't have issue there. I also agree that there is a lot of knowledge on this site and have read all of the posts and we have tried everything mentioned. My wife and I did not want to turn this into something, all we care about is the welfare of this horse. Many things where said, and we just found this site and read these posts this morning. I just want to say that Oatmeal is doing fine, I spent 8 hours there today with him and I will post pictures of his progress. Again, thank you for your advice, it did not go on deaf ears.
Lance
New Member:
Chellis6

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 10:41 pm:

Hello, I have sat here all week reading these emails on this little fellow. I agree that there are two sides to every story. However, it is true that somehow with all these people who are showing an interested in oatmeal need to come together. And the idea of putting a board there would be great thing. Therefore, the poor guy does not go thru something twice.
My question here is this.
As I understand this barn is where the people are, boarding there horses. And the barbwire is to keep all these other horses in. Therefore, this problem could happen to any of the horse boarded there. Yes, barbed wire is one of the worse fences for horses but from my own experience, rope fence and also tape fence can be bad. I my self had a horse try to kick at another horse in the other pasture and when he brought his back left back towards him he also brought the rope fence with him and then took off with the rope fence around his hocks. Well the wounds where so deep down to the bones. We had to put him down. After that time, I went to tape fence and snap insulators. They snap open with tension.
Now as the new owners brought oatmeal to the barn the owners of the barn new it was young. Moreover, allowed oatmeal to go in this pasture. As for my self-when I bring anything new home, I put it in our round pen for a few days to see how it behaves. Something that it would be hard to brake out of. Especially something this young. I would want to bond with it first. Also as all of us now when you buy something at an auction you never really now the truth about these animals.
As some of you started to say to get the ASPCA into this. I too watch animal cop and cry when I see some of these horses. However, sometimes I really think some of the horses they take do not need to be taken from certain people they go to far. So long a owner is trying to provide care., in contact with a vets, are giving his meds and are providing wound care. And as I understand the barn itself is making sure there is water food and bedding there. The owners are paying the board to keep oatmeal sometimes people are too fast to call the aspca in and then complicate things more}}
Yes, the number one thing is the welfare of the animal. In addition, as we all now we all have made some kind of sacrifices for our animals at one time or another.
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2005 - 3:42 am:

Hi Mrs & Mr Roscoe

Welcome to the HA. As you can tell, there is a terrific amount of support and experience here for your little guy.

We are all most interested in seeing Oatmeal's progress and would welcome updated photos as he improves. As a warmblood breeder and a clinical trials administrator, I am familiar and never cease to be amazed by the trauma that a body can endure and recuperate from. We are truely amazing creatures, one and all.

Please bear in mind that all animal lovers are only focused on the best possible outcome and never forget that blame is a weapon with a hair trigger. It is mostly misdirected.

We are all wishing the best for little Oatmeal and look forward to hearing about his progress. Dr O is an invaluable resource and we all heed his words of wisdom.

Best regards

Sue
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2005 - 9:28 am:

Hey Mr. and Mrs Rascoe
Like Sue said, there is a phenomenal wealth of information here at HA, as well as compassion and personal experience that can help you get Oatmeal thru this ... true enough, every story has two sides, however there is a right way to treat an animal. As you may know, horses can "survive" many accidents, but, as horse owners, one of our jobs is to recognize and avoid accidents that may happen. Looks like that did not happen here, BUT, none of us are perfect, and, now it is good to see that, perhaps you learned something, and will now help Oatmeal to regain his health! Please keep us posted! One thing we all have in common here at HA, is the intention to learn (and, sometimes that includes admission of not doing things just right, as DrO will point out). Welcome to HA. Even as a horse owner/breeder of 40 years, I have found this site to continue to be very informative, with up to date research, and great advice from a knowledgeable vet. I hope all goes well with Oatmeal,
Nancy
P.S. I just have to say this(I tried not to), but, alcohol and horses do not mix. Even just holding a container while cold hosing a youngster is not wise. No judgement here about the content of the can, as I love my toddy too, just not in the presence of horses.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2005 - 9:45 am:

Estella,
The barn where we board our horses and where Oatmeal is currently recovering is a wonderful facility and he is in a very nice stall. It does not keep any of the boarders horses in barbed wire. It is all smooth wood....personally walked by the managers and owners of the barn often to ensure it remains safe! The stall with the injured horse is being used as a rehabilitation stall, as he was brought here to recover in a heated barn.

Thanks for your concern.
Member:
Morg1

Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2005 - 10:56 am:

Estella, I understand that the colt was injured at the owners place and they took him to the barn to be kept while he healed.

Lance, I also have some barbed wire that is my neighbors fence, but since I don't want it for my horses I will be replacing it as soon as possible. I do not expect the neighbors to replace it or even share the cost of replacing it since it is a perfectly good fence for their needs. Electric might keep a horse from getting into the barbed wire 90% of the time, but we know our horses will find a way to get hurt, and that other 10% will land you in the same situation that you are in now. Just something to think about.
New Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2005 - 12:56 pm:

Thank you, thank you, thank you all for your kind words and wisdom. I'm sure we will be finding ourselves visiting this sight often and hopefully meeting many new friends.

Nancy, I wanted to address the alcohol issue right away and thank you for bringing it up because, like most of the previous information, it was taken completely out of context. Lance has a strict rule about working and drinking instilled at an early age by his father - they don't mix. He was simply having a beer with a friend AFTER spending a significant amount of time with the colt and completing his care. He was just winding down after a stressful day/week.

I also understand that when it comes to injured animals that emotions do run high when it comes to their care. If I had read the previous postings about Oatmeal's care, I would have thought the exact same thing all of you did. I would have been absolutely furious! I would have thought, 'What the heck is wrong with these people?' However, we are doing everything in our power to make sure that he comes out of this ordeal as safe and as comfortably as possible. As I wrote before, these were people that we trusted and respected. I even would call them at their homes to update them on Oatmeal's progress and to let them know he had received his daily care. I would ask them personally or email them daily asking them for advice. They were never ever confrontational when we saw them at the barn and in fact, were very nice and supportive in person.

We are here to get the focus of this issue back on track - and that's the care of this little colt. We are having the vet come out this week to check on his progress and give us further care instructions. I will post pictures of the wound in the next couple of days so you can all see his progress. We have read and reread the article on Long Term Wound Care, which is a wonderful article, and have been following it. He is truly a wonderful animal and such a pleasure to work with! (We also did not use Mane and Tail on this horse. Come on, there are 18 horses being boarded at this facility!)

Again, thank you so much for all of your support. Any recommendations, advice, or similar stories (those are the best) are so greatly appreciated.

Warmest regards,
Shannon & Lance
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Sunday, Oct 23, 2005 - 2:47 pm:

At this point, as always, I refuse to name any names in the above situation and implicate any specific parties.

Even though permission to post was provided in the beginning, I have chosen to no longer post about this horse’s condition.

I stand unequivocally by the facts and opinions posted in this thread but apologize if anyone who read these posts felt hurt by those words.

The entire thread and subsequent postings that provided opinion, were written out of compassion for a hurt animal and only that. There was no other motive involved. As you all know everyone sees two sides to one situation.

To the baby horse I say, may you heal quickly little one and have a long wonderful life.

Take care and God Bless,
Corinne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 6:50 am:

Wow, loose my network connection for a few days and you can guarantee big things will happen.

What a difference another point of view can make and what a great illustration of the limitations of this medium, the Internet. The Internet is a powerful tool for spreading information but the information often comes fast and without qualifications. This makes it just as powerful at passing misinformation or passing opinion as facts. Above we see 2 sides of the same story, both told convincingly. How are we decide?

I think one of the reasons for the success of this site is the very careful, though not always successful, attempt to delineate opinion from fact. In equine veterinary matters I have decades of daily experience with what is "described on the phone" and then going see "what I find first hand". These experiences teach me to be very careful to not pass my opinion off as fact and instead address questions with general knowledge and concentrate on how you answer the question and not pretend I can know the exact nature of the problem from a second hand position. Conversely we argue strongly for the science of equine veterinary medicine versus the opinion of alternative medicine, even if that alt med is well established veterinary procedure.

The same is certainly true with situations where emotions run very high. We were all relieved to see the horse's owners so willing to give proper care for this little guy and out of this relief the answer to our quandary falls out: not only do we not have to pass judgement but we should not pass judgement from second hand information. Instead we should address the needs of this little guy, with our opinion of what might be best. But since we are all second hand observers it is just our opinion and we have to rely on the judgement of the care givers for the final decision.
DrO
Member:
Caroltd

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 8:34 am:

If the owners aren't following the vet's recomendations and show no intention of doing so and won't allow someone to buy him or take him who WILL try to help him, perhaps they should be reported to the local animal protection people? As private individuals you can't take the animal from them to ensure that he gets proper care, but they can.

Carol
New Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 1:02 pm:

Monday morning update on Oatmeal.

Oatmeal is doing very well with his injuries and the medicine is paying off. We are still giving antibiotics (either in a shot or paste) and are giving him bute crushed up in applesauce, given orally through a syringe. We tried a couple of other methods (biggest being molasses) and he likes the taste of this the best. In addition, we are cleaning his wounds by washing them out with water and Iodine, after which, we are spraying Scarlet oil on his wounds. This is being done atleast twice a day.

As for Oatmeal's injuries, on the right leg (the one with the major damage as a result of barbed wire), the swelling has went down and talking with my wife this morning, the drainage has gone down significantly (thank goodness). On the left leg, the swelling has also went down and the drainage is all but gone (whew).

He has been very active these last days and he is starting to get cabin fever. We have been taking him into the arena for 20 minute sessions to get him moving around and to give him a break from being in a stall. We are going to talk to the stable owners about putting him into a 60 foot round pen that has grass to give him some outside time so he can romp around and be a young horse (anyone have some thoughts on this?). He is easy to handle and comes to us and let’s us halter him, give him shots, play with him all with no problem. So our thinking is, that if we first walk him around in the round pen on a lead rope to get him used to the environment, then we can let him loose in the pen for an extended period of time. The big question is, will he let us put him back on the lead rope to bring him back in, more to follow and I will keep you updated.

Also, the vet is coming out on Wednesday to take a look at Oatmeal and see how things are progressing, we will let you know how this went and let everyone know what the vet thinks our next steps are in Oatmeal’s recovery process.

Next update will be on Wednesday after our vet visit.


Take Care and God Bless,

Lance and Shannon
Member:
Sonoita

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 1:21 pm:

Hello, Just a couple of questions. Why do they want a young horse? Second I read that he wants to turn him out in a round pen , if he is tame , why would you worry about being able to catch him? If he is getting antsy about being in the stall could you maybe give him something to help that, like Quietex? Sir, when you say play with him are you saying like grooming him and picking up his feet, things like that? These would come in handy when the farrier is called. I also would love to see the pictures of how he is doing.
New Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 1:45 pm:

Wanda - good questions. The reason we have such a young horse is so we know this horse from the beginning - no surprises. At some time or another, we either know someone or have heard of someone who bought a horse thinking they could ride a certain way or do a certain something only to find out it was not true.

This is a seven month old horse, who is showing a lot of promise, but, putting him in a round pen is something new for him, and because he is injured the last thing we want to do is cause stress in his life. He had not been worked with before he was bought, so baby steps are critical as we need to worry more about his recovery, but understand Oatmeal’s needs and find the best path for both.

As for the term playing, we are grooming him daily and working with his feet. In addition, this past weekend, I did some Parelli training with this horse and he respond very well. Oatmeal is very smart and is very willing, but again, baby steps.

Personally, I would not use Quietex in this situation. I have used it before with performance horses, but, in this situation, we are more inclined to expand his time outside his stall.
Member:
36541

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 4:39 pm:

Following the thread, wishing all involved the best of outcomes, and wondering in an effort at levity... why "Oatmeal"??
Is he good for the heart? I'm sure from all the posts that he is "filling" and as my Scots mother would say "sticking to the ribs" for many of us. I have cared for a few wounds like this over the years, and have always been amazed that they closed so well with consistent basic wound care, even when the initial deficit is large. Good luck, Stacy
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 5:02 pm:

Why "Oatmeal"? At the same time we bought Oatmeal, we bought a shetland. I had my nine year old daughter and seven year old daughter with me. I let each of them choose a name, my oldest chose Oatmeal because of his color and my seven year old named the shetland Marshmallow because he is brown and white.

He is good for the heart, we love him very much and hope for a speedy recovery.

He is smart though, I had put a hay bag in his stall because I was using the collar to keep him from chewing when I was there with him. This afternoon, he pawed at his hay bag and the stall has a feeder door. Well, needless to say, he opened the feeder door and escaped. HE IS FINE, my wife was called and she went to investigate and he was walking around the arena when she arrived. We now know we can catch him. He went right up to my wife and she was able to halter him and put him in his stall. She had to leave, but she came back 30 minutes later and is there now working with him. The bag is now gone.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 5:39 pm:

Lance,
Hay nets and foals DON'T go together. In order to avoid future accidents with this youngster, please ask the advice of more experienced individuals. There are NO short cuts that can be taken with horses that don't result in someone getting hurt.

Your wife mentioned that you grew up with horses. That doesn't insure that you KNOW horses or will make the wisest decisions about their care. There are many folks I've encountered in my life who have boasted many years of working with horses, yet they use barbaric methods of horse care and training and often exhibit no common sense. Thankfully, more gentle ways of training and more advanced methods of medical care are becoming widely accepted . . . and that helps the horses and the horse owners, both new and old.

It is true that we learn by experience, and when the welfare of a living being is at stake, it is preferable to learn from the mistakes of others rather than have to remake those same mistakes ourselves. There is much common sense floating around the barn where you have Oatmeal. Don't hesitate to question others first . . . it will save you a lot of trouble in the end.

Glad the little stinker is back where he belongs. Take care and thanks for the updates.
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 6:25 pm:

Holly Wood, I agree about hay nets, it was one of the canvas bag ones with the hole in the middle, I do not like the other ones. Also, I found out that he opened the feeder when he pushed down on the bag while eating and it was on the pole that locks the feeder door in place. it by no means was a short cut, it was a way for him to get to his hay with the collar on (vet recommended). But, as mentioned, we have taken it out.

I agree about growing up around and knowing horses. I too have encountered people who use cruelty to get a horse to do things, and I find it appalling. I have personally bought a horse from such a person at a loss to my self, but a gain to the horses well being. My wife and I have owned horses together for six years. We had our own stables in Florida where we raised and showed quarter horses. We love horses, would do anything for them and would never use cruelty. We train our horses with time and love. I would rather spend hours doing one thing and have the horse respect me than to beat a horse to get him or her to get a desired outcome. Even now that we have moved to North Dakota, we are building our stables and have horses other than Oatmeal. Once our stables are finished he will be moved to his new home, about a mile away from his current stables. As far as our overall training methods, we use the Parelli training method for all of our horses. We have been doing so for two years now. And we are still learning, going to training, reading what we can, and talking with experienced horse trainers that we know.

And, believe me, I ask questions, I talk daily to people I respect when dealing with horses, and we have made changes based on their recommendations. We are actually waiting for some medicine that we cannot get in North Dakota from Arizona, should be here today or tomorrow. This will add to our arsenal to help with Oatmeal’s recovery. Which I know is what we all want, that folks here at HA, the people who are boarders at the stables, and all the other people who have helped.

And, it does not stop there, we are working with the owners of the stables to go even further in his recover, getting him more time out of his stall now that he is doing better. All of which will help him get better, but making sure his safety is our number one priority. My wife and I have a schedule that we are following with specific times for all of his care needs. His vet will be there at 11:30 am Wednesday to check his progress and to recommend next steps.
Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 7:07 pm:

Come on people!
Not sure what everyone is trying to prove here. I have never seen this much attacking on this site before. People used to go out of their way to give the benefit of the doubt. As far as I am concerned, Lance and Shannon have had the most civil posts, at least they have managed to maintain some decency despite all this attacking. If you are TRULY concerned about this colt then you will not drive away the people who are responsible for his future. Honestly !!
Member:
Morg1

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 8:50 pm:

Good point Shelley. We have heard two completely different stories here and we don't know what to believe for certain. We just have to trust that these people are doing what they say they are, and they are asking for advice. We need to give them all of the advice and support that we can offer. Lance and Shannon are speaking to us with the upmost courtesy while they are being attacked by several members. I for one commend them for not losing their patience with us, and that shows something about their character.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 11:25 pm:

My aim is not to attack, but to state facts. Foals rear and play and get feet stuck . . . and I don't care WHO recommended a hay net, it's a bad idea with a foal if it's hung low enough for him to get a foot caught in it or attached to a door latch that opens with downward pressure. Not all accidents are avoidable, but common sense goes a long way.

I am also one who admires your courtesy, Lance and Shannon, and apologize for seemingly "attacking" you -- Not my aim at all as those who know me can testify.
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 11:27 pm:

Shelley and Karen, well said, well put. I've been following this thread with a bit of shock myself. I don't believe there is any one of us that couldn't/wouldn't be critized for the way we care for our animals. Everyone has their opinion and thoughts as to how things should be done that may differ from the rest of the world.
The patience and respect Lance and Shannon have shown says a lot for them. Let's stop the "this is wrong, that is wrong". Lance and Sharon the best to you and your horse family and future plans. Shirl
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 11:50 pm:

To all, we can understand your compassion, I wish that everyone how owned a horse shared this zeal. It would make for a better life for horses and horse lovers.
Member:
Lynnea

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 12:30 am:

I have read the posts from the beginning and was also extremely worried about Oatmeal. Before I put in my two cents worth, I have waited until now. Gladly, I might add. As the two sides are confusing. I think it is gracious of the owners of the colt to show patience and tolerance for the comments regarding their colts care. However, when you love horses and are confronted with a story that wrenches your heart, we are all ready to take the position to protect and see that everything possible to save them from neglect or more harm is done. We are we so exposed to the cruelties and abuse that haunts the lives of so many horses, that I believe it is natural to feel as everyone here has felt about the plight of Oatmeal.
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 2:10 am:

Well said Anne. Looking forward to seeing some more pictures of Oatmeal.

Imogen
Member:
Morg1

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 8:21 am:

Holly Wood you are offering advice I never intended to it to sound as if you are attacking these people, but we all make mistakes with horses and hope that our horses don't suffer because of it. Lance and Shannon have learned their lesson and Oatmeal wasn't hurt in the process. Even the best made barns have horrible horses accidents, because what shouldn't happen will with horses around.
Member:
Yitto

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 10:25 am:

Hi all, First I would like to say I love this site, although I admit I don't use the message boards because people tend to attack you. It becomes frustrating trying to get the info you are seeking and have to start defending your stance in the matter.

I have watched this thread from the beginning, I could have offered some advice with this little fella along time ago. I choose not to defend my thoughts and experiences. I do need to say that Lance and Sharon you need to have just one or a couple of people giving you advice, they need to have seen Oatmeal and willing to help you get him through this. HA is great for information, but we haven't seen the animal nor how you are dealing with his care. There are a lot of people in that barn who are more than willing to get you started in the right direction. In fact these very same people tended to the animal while you couldn't, and tamed and halter broke him for you. I can't say you did anything wrong, but if you can avoid some pitfalls it will benefit you in the long run.

I currently have in my barn a 2 year stud colt that was injured in a barbwire fence 3 weeks ago. The owners didn't follow instructions and now the wound in full of infection and proud flesh. Now the poor fella is here and having to go through some extreme painful procedures to correct and hopefully heal him. It didn't have to end up this way and the owners never saw it coming. I feel badly that I didn't be a bit more pushy from the beginning with the owners, I only rechecked the horse once a week. My experience with the horse's owner in the past is much like what is going on with Oatmeal. I can't make them do it my way, they have valid reasons why they do what they do, but the evidence is in the horse I have to treat now.

One misconception I will comment on here Lance. Buying a young horse so you know the horse can get you into big trouble, one that could be costly to the horses life. There are many fine horses out there and if you can't find one that you can get along with then there is a problem. Unfortunately there are many people who believe buying a young horse will fix all their problems, at some point someone else will have to deal with a spoiled rotten horse and life is going to hard on him. You may make it work for you, but what if it doesn't?
Member:
Ejar

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 11:15 am:

Well, Like Darbie, I've been watching but staying out of the discussion. I have been on both sides of this fence (my own horse's injuries, the care offered a friend's severely injured horse.) Nothing is more annoying than having to defend your knowledge of a horse's situation and care when you know it all first hand.

So, that said, here's my thoughts on Oatmeal:
1) I took care of a friend's horse for 3 weeks who had a really nasty steak-sized chunk taken out of his rear. Vet had tried suturing, I was following my friend's directions, but the wound looked uglier as the first week wore on. We started flushing the wound twice a day for ten to fifteen minutes, and it was amazing how quickly that wound began to heal! The changes were totally visible day to day. By the time our friends were home from their trip, his rump looked like it had a fist-sized rub spot instead of a gaping, oozing hole. So keep the water running! The horse had unlimited turnout in a 100x50 space.

2) I purchased my horse as a weanling and brought her home at 11 months. I basically treated her like the family dog - I took her on walks, I groomed her, I taught her tricks. We played 'dress up' in adult horse clothes - blankets, bareback pads, bridles without bits. We went on a lot of walks, did a lot of hand grazing. I spent six to eight hours a day there, doing all my regular barn chores with her by my side or within visual distance. We didn't spend much time in the round pen, but if that's the safest spot you have for turn out, then I would use it.

I would give Oatmeal as much time as I could afford, on a lead, walking. He'll burn off some energy, learn manners, and give you both an opportunity to face 'issues' on the trail - bags, lizards, cardboard, sheep, dogs, goats, and other spawn of the devil (my term for anything scary!).

I bought my youngster so I could know her beginnings, and like you, have found that there are no guarantees. Thankfully you can take this healing time and turn it into a bonding experience, so that when Oatmeal is three or four, saddling and riding will be no big deal.

All of the ground time with my mare has paid off. While she is more sensitive than most, she has never completely refused anything I have asked, she has never taken off out of fear. And she loads in the trailer like a dog into a pickup!

Good luck.
Member:
Sonoita

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 11:43 am:

Lance,
What has the vet said about turn out in a big area? How is the wound doing? I have a horse that cast his self and tore up his leg and I started out cold hosing and Novalsan and finally switched to aloe because the nolvasan did not seem to be clearing the would up. It drained a lot and never really was healing.The aloe is doing wonders.The Indians knew
a lot.The reason we yell loudly for Oatmeal is he does not have a voice and so we yell for him. So now you have six horses? WOW!}
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 12:15 pm:

Shannon and I have tried from the beginning to take the high road on this subject. We could have not done anything, let people spin their webs and sat idly by, caring for our horses.

But, we chose not to. We felt as owners we needed to explain our side of this. The results have been mixed, but you have to expect these things when you are dealing with the internet.

As we have mentioned before, we our consulting people who know this horse, what has transpired, and have seen this horse OR have dealt with horses with similar injuries. The people we have are veterinarians, two of which have personally seen him, and two have seen pictures, and been given specific information about the horse and his wounds and people who own and care for horses and on average have over 10 years of quality horse experience. Additionally, we have used HA and other websites and searches for information about caring for an animal with these types of injuries.

There are some issues though I want to address, Shannon and I have been the ones caring for this animal, my wife has had assistance by people in the barn, but it is us, not anyone else managing his daily wound care. We tamed and halter broke this horse, no-one else. As a matter of fact, no-one else would go near him, until we showed these people that you could put a halter on him, you could lead him, you could bathe him, and that he was not what people made him out to be.

What is disturbing is people the people reading these posts, and then posting, do not know us, but are willing to make judgment calls on our care.

I will give everyone a typical day for my wife during the week.

Morning Session

Oral Antibiotics (Paste)
Wound Cleaning, Washing and cleaning his wounds. After which, spraying scarlet oil on his legs to prevent chewing.
Exercise – minimum 10 minute session

Mid-Afternoon Session

Bute and Applesauce mix given orally
Wound Cleaning, Washing and cleaning his wounds. After which, spraying scarlet oil on his legs to prevent chewing.
Exercise – minimum 10 minute session

Evening Session

Wound Cleaning, Washing and cleaning his wounds. After which, spraying scarlet oil on his legs to prevent chewing.
Exercise – minimum 10 minute session

Again, people do not know who we are, they do not know our experiences with horses and in training horses. We are not incompetent, we are not misguided, and we consistently are learning to make ourselves better horse people.

I am hoping that this thread can please get back on track with the issue. That is; a 7 month old colt is injured, he is under a veterinarians care, and if you have thoughts or methods you feel could help in the progression of this horses healing process, please advise. Because that is what we and this horse needs, your thoughts and comments on how to get this angel better.

As previously stated, we are having the veterinarian come out on Wednesday. At this time, we will post his finding on this site along with his recommend next steps. Additionally, we will post pictures of his wound so that people can see his progress.
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 12:24 pm:

Wanda, I posted before I saw your message. Today, we started letting him out in the stables enclosed arena for about 1 to 2 hours in the morning while the stable owners clean out all of the stalls, this is in addition to his exercise schedule. Additionally, we will be talking to the vet about exercise tomorrow. We will allow ask about Aloe and we can start looking at this as an additional method of wound care. We only have four horses; two Shetland paints, a paint gelding, and Oatmeal.
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 2:37 pm:

I don't care to get involved in the 'he did/she did/they did/they didn't end of this thread. I do believe everyone has the same bottom line here...that the colt recovers. 'nuff said.

Lance and Sharon, is it possible to share any pictures of the colt?

This thread reminds me a bit of the Help, I'm a Mom thread where we were the recipients of an unexpected foal this spring! The HA family stepped up and shared their exuberance and their expertise to help us answer some questions that we needed answered, since we are not accustomed to foal care. I learned a lot...from these people at HA. I think 'little Oatmeal' has become our next HA family project....hope you guys don't mind...we kind of think of everyone's horses as communal at times. It's a great feeling, knowing that so many people care, as I'm sure you've now discovered.

Horse prayers to Oatmeal. Get well soon! We all love you here at HA!
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 3:22 pm:

I agree Sherri, at the end of the day, all we care about is our boy Oatmeal getting better.

My wife will be taking multiple pics tomorrow. We may post one here and then provide a link to our yahoo photo site.

Thank you,

Lance and Shannon
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 26, 2005 - 8:27 pm:

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that the vet came out today and Oatmeal's assessment was very promising. He said that he was not worried at all about the deep wound on the upper right leg and that it was healing properly. He was a little more concerned about the wound on the left knee because of the swelling. When he examined it last week, he mentioned that there was a deep pocket in the wound and that may be the reason why it has taken so long for the swelling to go down. After examining the area, he didn't think it had gone down to the joint. He recommended using a product such as Derma Cleanse, SSD cream, or Granulex to use on the wound and wrap it to try to control the swelling. He said both wounds would benefit from using one of the creams, of course wrapping the right upper leg would be close to impossible. If anyone has any information or preference for one of the products, please let us know. I used Derma Cleanse because we already had some in the barn. He also recommended discontinuing the scarlet oil as it may be caustic and do more harm than good. He did give the thumbs up for Oatmeal to have some time to play outside, either in the round pen or a small paddock (he will be so happy!). He even said we could put him out with other horses. We will be working on that starting Friday so Lance will be able to spend time with him making sure he doesn't overdo it. He has had some time to himself in the arena, but I think being outside with a buddy will do wonders for the little guy. He has been walking just fine without favoring one leg over the other and seems pretty balanced. We will also be administering antibiotics for 10-14 (total) days.

Here are a couple of pictures of his wounds. If you would like to see more, try our yahoo website at https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shannon_rascoe/album?.dir=a564&.src=ph&store=&prod id=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos. Let me know whether or not the link works. We have been using the scarlet oil up until today, so the wounds look more angry red than they really are. Also, I took pictures both pre and post irrigation so that is why there is drainage in some of the pictures.

Thank you again for all of your support and prayers. We will keep you all informed of his progress.

Warmest regards,
Shannon and Lance
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Thursday, Oct 27, 2005 - 2:04 am:

Dear Lance,

Just out of curiousity how long have you had horses? What discipline do you ride?

WTG
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 27, 2005 - 7:24 am:

Granulex is a spray based around the enzyme trypsin and is primarily for use when there is a lot of necrotic material to be removed, not a condition you are experiencing. I am uncertain what is in the other two products you recommend. The wounds look pretty good in the photos but yes the wound close to the joint may be the most serious.
DrO
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Thursday, Oct 27, 2005 - 11:57 am:

Jointly (my wife and I) have been working with horses for 6 years. I have been working with horses for even longer. My wife and I ride western, we do not compete, but rather ride for pleasure. My oldest daughter does hunter - jumper and has competed in Florida. My younger two are just starting out and are learning the basics for now. My littlest one is only a month old, so she does not ride, yet.
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 1:44 am:

Wanda,

When you said why Oatmeal? Did you mean why such a young horse or why the name?

Lance,

Is Oatmeal your first young horse? Do you understand the magnitude of owning a foal? They are most certainly not children. In my own opinion babies are to be raised by expert handlers only. The liability in itself is insurmountable.

On the round pen issue, babies like to be with other horses. Especially babies who have just been weaned. Horse like to be in herds. It is their nature. Maybe he would do well. Do you want to take the chance? I say no way until the vet signs off on it. Even then I would be guarded.

Since you are now finally involved with this animal, why don't you walk him around for a couple of hours? After all your child wanted this baby. It would possibly be time well spent especially if you are using Pirelli method and plan on keeping him. Since he is so well behaved you shouldn't have any problem.

Erin & Darbie,

All hail the babies!!!! We love them. They are soooo cute and cuddly. Yet until their four some of them no matter how great the training still live in terrible two land.

Yes there is a problem if one cannot find a horse that is rideable-compatible with a rider, or suitable-a horse one likes and wants to buy. That to me is quite suspicious.

To all,

In the interest of Oatmeal, lets hope the owners are really doing what they say they are doing and can continue excellent care or give him to someone who can.

I have been in Corrine's position before. That is what happens when you are a professional. I cannot imagine she is exaggerating or embellishing the truth. She seems pure of heart. Lets remember she took care of this horse for how long, when the owners could not? I am not sure if she was properly compensated for her efforts.

So I would like to commend her for reaching out to all of us. I also commend her for documenting this saga of Oatmeal, just in case. It was the best thing she could have done for him!

The owners now know they are under a microscope. I am sorry that yet another innocent animal has fallen prey to ignorance. If this story is true.

Everyone at my barn is praying for Oatmeals speedy recovery. Oh yeah, how long will it take?


With a heavy heart,

WTG
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 7:21 am:

No one here is under a microscope, WTG. The only thing we are concerned about is this foal's recovery.
DrO
Member:
Lilly

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 8:33 am:

WTG,
You said a lot of things that I have thought to myself over the past few weeks. I have to agree with you wholeheartedly about babies. They are NOT for everyone. I made the horrible mistake of buying a green broke 2 year old mare with the idea of "growing old" with her. She was hot and skittish and I was way too new to horses to own a horse that young. I ended up falling in love with her anyways but decided to sell her after I could see bad habits developing - habits that I didn't know how to fix. I thought I sold her to a good home but I have now discovered that she is for sale again, after only 4 months in her new home. It is so heartbreaking to know she is going to ANOTHER new home. I have a new horse now, he's 19 years old and perfect for me. I don't plan on ever buying a horse again if there is a chance I will have to sell it later. I had to learn the lesson about babies the hard way. I believe that is why HA is giving Lance so much advice. LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES!!!
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 8:41 am:

At the risk of offending my esteemed and respected HA family...."For heaven's sake people.......the guy's not on the witness stand...get off his back already!!!!"
Member:
Yitto

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 10:53 am:

Hi all, Sorry I haven't finished what I started here. We are in the process of moving our clinic to a new building and it has been time consuming. Although very exciting!!

Lance your colt is looking pretty good. I have tried all of the things your vet has mentioned with varying degrees of success. What I have found works best is good old Nolvasan cream applied twice a day. When I see the wound is starting to heal well I stop the Nolvasan and use Aloe heal. vitamin E and Panalog (now called Animax), mix all this together and apply once a day. This speeds the healing and less scaring. Personally I do not turn the young horse out on it's own for at least a month to lesson the chances of tearing what has healed. I do hand walk them twice a day for 10 minutes.

The knee swelling is a concern and would like to see that get the most attention at this point. What I would do is apply a cold pack for 10 minutes, heat pack for 10 minutes, and then 10 minutes more of the cold. Not hosing it down, use ice pack! This will reduce the swelling by helping the body flush the area that is now stagnate. Poultices are great but often slow to get a response, if wanted to use one then do so after the hyDrO flushing.

My comment on the young horse was due to some inconsistencies of this whole mess. Baby horses are the best, I have raised quite a few and now the joy of knowing and shaping who they are. I do see a lot people getting babies for this reason and it turn out to be really bad. One needs to be experienced with horses beyond riding them and make sure you have a place to raise a foal in a safe environment. So before you take little Oatmeal home this time make a safe place for him to be. And like I said before find someone you trust to help you with this little guy so he indeed grows up to be what you want him to be. He is a nice looking little fella and I do see why you love him.

Finally, I am not trying to pick on you, just share what knowledge I know to be true. A great deal of planning goes into having a baby. This isn't the last problem you are going to have, but with careful planning you can avoid some of the worst situations, like what has happened. It happens to all of us so don't feel that you are being singled out in any way, just believe that most of us care and want to help you and Oatmeal.

Raising baby horses is like trying to nail Jello to a tree.
New Member:
Chellis6

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 11:07 am:

I total agree tot these commits
At the risk of offending my esteemed and respected HA family...."For heaven's sake people.......the guy's not on the witness stand...get off his back already!!!!"
No one here is under a microscope, WTG. The only thing we are concerned about is this foal's recovery.
DrO
We all come here because we love our animals. In addition, looking for whatever help we can to get them back on the right track.
I also find it funny. That some of you do not really listen to the whole commit that someone writes.
If you all keep up pass judgment on people for coming here for help, you will only loose them from coming here for help.
I think we should stop putting them down and be here to give advice and not put them down for looking for help.
I have done my share as many of you have made mistakes with raising horses.
What right do we have to tell people what to do with there chooses. If someone has purchased a young horse and comes here for help do not tell them how unwise, they are but help them along to raise a loving animal.

we are suppose to be here to help and be supportive. Let us try to do that.
Lance Rascoe to you and your family good luck and hope you will have a foal to love for many years to come.
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 12:19 pm:

Dr. O, Sherri, and Estrella, Thanks for trying to put an end to the "trial by fire" here. I agree, it's gone on way to long, and I admire Lance and Shannon for even sticking around. Judge not least you be judged, or something like that. Best to Oatmeal and his family and thanks to the above mentioned three as well.
I lost my beloved Sierra a year ago today, so excuse any bluntness on my part. Shirl
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 12:58 pm:

Hi all,
This has been one of the most interesting discussions I have ever witnessed! It is unfortunate that the subject is a baby who is suffering. We have heard from both sides and we all have our own opinion as to what is happening. At this point, unless someone has very pressing evidence that Lance and Sharon are not capable of adequately caring for Oatmeal, maybe we could end the negativity and put our energy toward helping Lance, Sharon and Oatmeal with positive support.
Sending positive energy to Oatmeal and family.
Kathleen
Member:
Sonoita

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 1:02 pm:

First of all folks , if Oatmeal was being treated the way it said on the first entry . You bet your sweet bippy I am going to try and find out the truth and do something about it. And I will do everything with in reason to help that colt. NO HORSE deserves to be mistreated. If you ask for advice you need to be ready for the answers. I have been attacked for some of the things that I have done in the past , but I learned to . So do not ask for advice if you do not want it. We are only interested in the foals health because we can be his voice. I wish him a speedy recovery. And I pray he has a happy and useful home.And good luck to the owners.I also hope they will keep us up to date on his progress.
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 1:50 pm:

Good afternoon everyone,

We want everyone to know that all the comments made since we joined HA are okay with us. They are all written with emotion and compassion. We have learned an awful lot in the past week and only hope that our situation can help others who may experience something similar in the future. We will not leave HA because there is so much to learn, no matter how much you already know (or think you know!), and our main concern is Oatmeal.

We have owned babies before. We had an Arab/Paint a couple of years ago that was like night and day compared to this little guy. We understand the time and commitment involved in raising a foal. Although I have to admit, Oatmeal is making it very easy for us. He is very sweet, gentle, and extremely well-mannered. All of the attention he is receiving is definitely paying off!

Dr. Olgesby - the Derma-Clens contains benzoic, malic, and salicylic acids, the SSD (silver sulfadiazine) is used for human burn patients, and we also have recieved Nu-Stock which contains sulpur, pine oil, and mineral oil. Which of these products, if any, would you recommend for these wounds, or do you have a better suggestion? Would you recommend them for the larger, upper leg wound even though it cannot be wrapped (ingestion is a concern)?

Thank you again, everyone, for your concern over this little guy. We will keep you posted on his recovery and continue to add pictures so you can see his progress.

Shannon and Lance
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 2:01 pm:

Has anyone thought about suggesting starting a new post for new questions?

This way, divided as some are about the topic, there will be expedited answers from the vet and from the forum without delay or emotion from past postings.....I think that might be something we can all agree will be best in this situation.

Just a thought.

v/r
Corinne
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 3:17 pm:

Darbie - great advice, we will try these out and let you know how everything works out.

Lance
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 7:08 pm:

Lance,
I am hoping the best for Oatmeal.
And your quote - 'We want everyone to know that all the comments made since we joined HA are okay with us.' Just seems very stand-up. I am glad you can see that everyone's heart is in the right place.

I think a new post to update Oatmeal's progress and any questions is a great idea.
-Barbara
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 29, 2005 - 10:16 am:

It seems like the Derma-Clens is designed for removing necrotic tissue and not really appropriate for a healthy healing wound. Silver sulfadiazine is a very suitable treatment however. We make recommendations for long term treatment at, Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Wounds / Burns » Long Term Deep Wound Care.

The problem with moving this post at this time is that all of the history is lost.
DrO
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 - 12:21 am:

Dear Ann,

What upsets me most of all is this tragedy happened in the first place. And then to read the owners were unable to care for Oatmeal leaving the 2-3x daily work to Corinne and others.

We all know when you have a baby, structure and good habits must be imprinted very early. If not the horse could end up #1 going to slaughter, #2 severely injuring himself or other horses,(as we see here)#3 injuring or killing people(which my horse did as a yearling-he killed a groom at the Thoroughbred Corp in Kentucky). I did not meet my horse until he was 6.

Basically taking a risk with my own life, I re broke him with love and patience. He was a mean aggressive terror, ears pinned back most of the time, baring his teeth and lunging at anyone who came close to him. No one in the barn would go near him. It took me three weeks to be able to walk him around without the iron mating muzzle that the previous owner had to use to keep him from biting her and other people. Especially when he would break loose from her or pull back and run around like a crazy horse.

This horse had a bad start. Now he follows me anywhere like a puppy. He jumps anything I ask him. He has manners now because he knows his job. In addition he knows I love him.

The last thing I would want for Oatmeal is to become that crazy horse no one wants. Thus his training and well being falls on the owners. If they had a foal before what happened? Where is the foal now? Why did they sell the foal?

To Estella & Dr.O: anyone who owns a horse is always under a microscope unless you are a respected professional. Don't think people are not watching because guess what, they are. If you read my post I never said this site had people under a microscope. I meant at their barn. Usually people who have had horses all of their lives try to help those who are new to horses. I am just glad to hear from the owners now that they are involved.

As many other people have stated, myself included only want the best for this suffering colt. Yes it is emotional and personal at the same time. Certainly I do not want to offend anyone, ever!! The hard questions needed to be answered and they were.

This colt has a long hard recovery ahead of him. Any number of things could go wrong at any time. I believe the HA family is a great forum for this colt and his family. I was both surprised and happy to see the posts from Lance and Shannon.

Best wishes,

WTG
Member:
Rrranch0

Posted on Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 - 11:13 am:

WTG,

I am hoping that after this post that we can all move on and focus on the care of this little colt.

We are saddened that this injury did occur in the first place and have learned a hard lesson about weanlings. Oatmeal is, however, recovering well. Since day one, we have been actively involved in his care. The only activities done by others in the barn are an occasional irrigation and spending time in his stall, which we encouraged. We also expressed gratitude on several occasions and invited their opinions and expertise. We have the complete support of the barn owners/managers and our local vets and they will all attest to our involvement since the day this injury occurred.

As far as the other colt is concerned, we sold him to a horse trainer who bought him for his fiance as an engagement gift after he fell in love with him (he was a yearling at the time). We knew he was going to a good home.

I hope that it is clear to everyone that the care of this little colt is paramount. We have provided pictures, and will continue to provide pictures, in order to obtain information that will aid in his speedy recovery.

Oatmeal has had a busy weekend! He is getting some much needed exercise, first in the round pen and then in a small paddock behind the barn (under our supervision of course!). He is doing very well and is really enjoying the fresh air. We will add some more pictures this week and continue to keep everyone updated on his recovery.

Warmest regards,
Shannon & Lance
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Oct 31, 2005 - 2:30 pm:

... I'm looking forward to seeing the new pictures of Oatmeal's wounds. From what I can make out in the previous pics posted, Lance, it looks like the silver sulfadiazine "sticks" mentioned by DrO would do the trick. I had a colt who was in a terrible accident years ago, yes, wounds as bad as your colt's, and now you cannot even see a scar! It was a long process, but, with a successful outcome. Hope Oatmeal's outcome will be the same!
Nancy
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