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Discussion on Recovery Time
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New Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 5:55 pm:
Hi everyone. I am new to the board and I joined in hopes that someone can help me. I have consulted vets, farriers and hoof experts in our area and I have a horse that may have to be put down if we cannot get rid of an infection in his foot.
I went to an auction last year in October and found a 2 year old that had a foot that looked rotten. The hoof was mushy and smelly and he wouldn't stand on it. My farrier said he could fix it by digging it all out, treating it and he would be as good as new.
He cut the infected area and found that it went well up into the foot (the main part was on the outside of the frog, inside the wall. The wall was cut away right to the top and then the treatments began.
We have tried epson salts, iodine, hairdryers, clean trax, etc. I am attaching a picture which is what the hoof looks like now and no one can seem to give me any real advise on what this is or what to do. I am worried that the infection is going to enter his blood and we will have to put him down soon.
The white stuff in the picture is damp, mushy, smelly and looks like a wet sponge.
Please anyone, can you help.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 6:07 pm:
you might also try asking at Farrier hoofcare resource center too...
https://www.horseshoes.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17
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New Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 6:13 pm:
Thanx, I will try there too. I was actually reading the section here on Cankers and I am thinking that this may be what it is? Anyone out there have an opinion?
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 6:46 pm:
Hello there Shawna,
And welcome to HA, please do not despair, my horse had chronic thrush for 10 years much like you horse, it took about 18 months of daily treatment but we got rid of it and it has great feet now.
We used a mixture of gentian violet peroxide and Lotrimin (athlete's foot powder) and it cleared out completly. Keep them clean and as dry as possible, also what works great and I am sure you can find it is a stuff called Thrush buster
Honestly my horse had it on all four feet, he could not walk, he didn't have a frog, instead he had what you describe!
But, it has to be a daily treatment, with thrush buster it may take less time, I only used one bottle that I managed to get from a friend that brought it from the U.S.as it is not sold here in Mexico,
I WORKS! Please do not think that you'll have to put him to sleep, it is difficult and it takes a long time, but, it will clear completely if you are constant with the treatment. Trust me on this, I was at my wits end with this horse!
Regards
Liliana
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 6:55 pm:
Just a note, If you look under Thrush buster you will get several suppliers. But here is one I found
https://www.texashorsesupply.com/hoof_care_thrush_buster.htm
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 8:33 pm:
i'm confused looking at the hoof. is that a side view of the hoof. cut out?
I think its way beyond thrush. Is he on medication for infrection? wow. what a picture.
Also try, barefoothorse.com and there are a couple of yahoo groups that are really into this and aren't regular farriers.
hope it all works out.
joj
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New Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 10:11 pm:
That is kind of a side view of the hoof, yes. The wall was cut all the way up to the cornet band and even then, they didn't get blod because all the wall was infected.
I printed out the article from this board on cankers and I showed it to my vet and farrier and from what they remember, this might be it. There is a pretty strict regimen to follow for that with cutting away the infected flesh, tetracycline and some other things but we are going to give that a try now.
Tonight I was out there and the wall had grown down further than in this picture (this was about a month ago) so they cut it back up so they could get to the bad stuff. It is just so high up in the foot that he has no sole on the one side.
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New Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 10:40 pm:
As a side note, this is what the hoof looked like when we first got him and cut away the wall. So approximately 3 months prior to the picture in the first posting.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 - 10:56 pm:
Shawna, looks like you are on the right track from the pix, there appears to be a lot of improvement in the 3 months...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 29, 2005 - 8:00 am:
Hello Shawna,
I cannot figure out what the stained tissues are in the first photo but agree the white areas looks like canker. It may be new horn formed by the wall laminae (which would be unpigmented and could be soft until it dries a bit) but it does not have the organized appearance of such horn.
It sounds like you have the basice concept down: every few weeks reevaluate and remove anything suspicious but I am concerned by what appears to be methyl-violet in the picture which will injure sensitive tissue. If you injure the wall corium sufficiently you will not be able to grow back functional wall. For our recommendations on topical and systemic treatment along with a description of debridement quidelines see, Equine Diseases » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Canker of the Hoof.
I don't see anything that doesn't have a fair chance of being fixed but radiography of the hoof might reveal damage to bony or articular structures that will not allow the horse to return to soundness.
DrO
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New Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Friday, Apr 29, 2005 - 11:36 am:
I think by the stained tissue you are looking at the area that is bluish/purple. I am not sure if menthyl-violet is the same as iodine solution, but that is what we were using for a while.
I printed off the article on the Canker and we are starting that treatment tomorrow. But I think I might get the hoof radiographed too, just in case.
Thanx a ton.
PS-I am going out tomorrow to watch them pare out some of the tissue and will try to take some good pictures and post them tomorrow afternoon.
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Friday, Apr 29, 2005 - 5:48 pm:
Dr.O I have never seen the wall cut off, is that normal procedure? It just seems to me that there is more chance of infection that way
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 30, 2005 - 7:42 am:
Shawna, if that is iodine then the radiographs may be problematic: the iodine is very radiodense and will make good pictures tough, check with your vet about this and you may want to wait a while to allow the iodine to dissapate.
The problem in some cases Liliana is that there is already infection up that deep under the wall that has to be uncovered to be treated. I have had to remove similar amounts of wall in several cases and as long as the foot is protected from trauma until the horn grows out it is surprising what can heal.
DrO
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Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 30, 2005 - 9:35 am:
Thanx, I will check on that.
The other thing that worries me about this horse is that he has stood up off that foot for so long now that I don't know what kind of damage he has done to his hips. He walks fine now, and trots too (he is a standardbred trotter) but he just won't stand on that foot. I think more from habit now than pain.
But because he is only 3 and has been like this since he was 2 I hope that there is no lasting damage to the proper growth of his hips.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 30, 2005 - 6:19 pm:
It is unlikely this has done any damage to the hips: the opposite foot is the weakest link. I disagree with your assesement that the above foot is not painful to stand on, and would avoid allowing vigourous exercise to protect the overloaded other leg and the dieased foot.
DrO
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Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 4:48 pm:
Hi again
I posted way back in April of this year. I have a 3 year old who had a REALLy bad case of canker, or at least we thought that is what it was and the vet agreed. We had the canker cut out by the vet in May of this year and we seemed to have gotten all of the canker.
But since then we have been constantly treating the foot for abceses and infection. He was on an antibiotic after the surgery and it took a while for the hoof to heal, or at least we thought it had healed.
Everytime we think it has healed, we pare out the new hoof growth and find more puss. It is not the typical white flowery looking stuff but it is just a little smelly, pinkish coloured flesh and white/yellow puss.
Our ferrier and his new trainer are treating him 4 times daily now with a mixture of different poltices (different one 4 times daily and then repeated next day), and they are keeping the inside of the hoof exposed in order to get right at the infection.
Now, since the operation we haven't seen anything we think is a canker, and our ferrier has dealt with one canker case, so he is pretty sure. But he has had at least 2 large abceses that have blown out the same hole that was make when the canker was cut.
Can we expect this to ever heal??? I am not too sure what to do now. The vet has done blood work and says it is not in the blood, he has done x-rays and says nothing is wrong there. And our ferrier is getting frustrated that the hoof keeps healing from the outside in, instead of inside out. Even with constant care.
Any ideas? How long is it usually until a bad canker case can be fixed?
Thanx
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 9:58 am:
I moved your earlier posts to here so that a complete history is available.
Shawna, why are you removing healthy horn you write about "the new hoof growth"? Perhaps pictures would help and we would like to know what is in the poultices being used.
DrO
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Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 10:09 am:
OK, I am heading out this morning.
When I say remove hoof growth, let me try to explain!!
After the canker, he had 2 abceses which blew out the bottom of the hoof (this was 2-3 months after and there was still a smell in the foot and it was still being soaked and wrapped daily). The ferrier cut out the abceses to create a hole in the sole for the infection to drain out of. This is the same hole that we use to pack in the poltices, and after a week, the hole covers over with what looks like new sole, or horn. Then when the ferrier comes back he cuts that away to see if the sole underneath has healed, because usually after a few days of no treatment there is a slight smell again.
I don't remember all the poltices, but I will write them down today, but one is iodine and sugar, one has DMSO, another has an anti-biotic and I am not sure what the 4th one has.
As I said, I will write everything down and take some pictures today!
Thanx
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Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 6:09 pm:
OK, here is a picture from today. It almost looks like a tiny piece of canker that is in the hole, but when cut it doesn't bleed, just pusses. And according to the trainer, all the white part was reddish 3 days ago. You can see at the top of the white blob, there is a small reddish part, and that is what the whole thing looked like.
The poultices used are 1 - sugar and iodine, 2 - DMSO and sulphur, 3 - DMSO and tribisine and 4 - Espom salt and iodine.
We were discussing it today and wondering if this is maybe a tiny piece of canker that was missed in the surgery and it was just so deep that the vet didn't get the barrier. The 2 abceses that he had were above this and therefore blew out the back of the anckle again making us wonder if they didn't blow out the bottom because it couldn't get past the canker. And lastly this white stuff wasn't there last week, but then after a week of no treatment it was there.
But, it didn't bleed, was just pussy, and was reddish after the first cuts.
We are not really sure, and as I mentioned, the ferrier dealing with this has only had one canker case so he isn't 100% sure what he is dealing with.
Thanx
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 7:40 am:
Wow Shana you have made real progress from the initial postings and with consistent care this may heal also. From your picture I cannot tell if I am looking at immature horn or canker: what is its consistency? The slightly cauliflower appearance does suggest canker to me but if you remain unsure, get the vet back out to look at this.
You should avoid the iodine and be using betadine instead or even better some of the proven therapies in the article on canker.
DrO
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Member:
Sboakes
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Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 9:22 am:
Thanx. The consistency for a few days was soft and mushy, but I am told that it is now more solid. We were thinking that it is horn material but we weren't sure. The biggest problem is that no one in this area really knows anything about cankers!! The ferrier we are using has only dealt with one case and the vet has only done the operation on my horse and never encountered it before. The vet is pretty good about doing research but not having any experience with it makes it more difficult to diagnos.
Thanx for the advise on using betadine, I will let my trainer know asap, why would it be better to use than iodine?
How much longer do you think we can expect to keep this up? Our ferrier thinks that if we get it, we will get it, meaning that after a week or two of aggressive treatment we shouldn't have to do anything to it again, if it is fixed. Do you agree with this? Or do you think we are going to constently have to work on it?
We are ordering a wellie boot from Europe because our winters are really muddy and wet and the boots they sell around here are like child's play to get off!! He has it off in 5 minutes of being outside, and being a 3 year old, he has to go out or he will tear down his stall!!!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 6:25 am:
Betadine is much easier on the healthy tissue. I disagree with the farrier, when the tissues are healthy, then you got it and not until. It is difficult to know how long with this problem and I would continue to treat until there is continuous healthy horn on the foot. One thing I would do a bit different than in the photo is to remove a little of the horn around the edges so that I could easily see what is happening at the margins. One of the tests for healthy horn is that is joins seamlessly with the more mature horn on the edges.
DrO
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