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  Discussion on Fetlock lameness in 12-yr old gelding - and a major dilemma!
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Member:
Erinport

Posted on Friday, Oct 21, 2005 - 11:32 pm:

Hi All-

My husband and I recently acquired a 12-yr old Missouri Fox Trotter gelding, to be used as a pleasure/trail horse. We're relatively new to riding and horse ownership, and have had some VERY bad experiences thus far. We actually acquired this gelding, Chief, in trade for two insane Tennessee Walking Horses that we were all too relieved to be rid of.

When I went to look at Chief at the seller's place, I noticed a couple of things: 1) the man is extremely heavy-handed with his horses. He had been riding Chief for over two hours in late-July Missouri heat and humidity before I ever got there to try him out. He was in a complete lather, and absolutely beat. I rode him very briefly, because I felt bad for him. 2) Chief seemed to favor his right rear leg, but very slightly. So slightly, in fact, that I kept questioning what I was seeing. I asked the seller about it, and he said it was his left rear white fetlock throwing me off visually. (Chief is a bay horse with just that one white fetlock on the left rear). To me, for the seller to say that was a bit of a red flag. By the way, after Chief's 2 1/2 hours of working in high heat and humidity, the seller stripped his tack, walked him over to the hose, and proceeded to empty a scalding hot hose full of water on him. Chief scrambled to the end of the lead rope, but the guy hung on and just kept spraying him. I was shocked, to say the least.

I really like Chief's attitude (a refreshing change from our idiot Walking Horses!), so I decided to pursue the sale further. I was not familiar with veterinarians in the area, so I used a vet that was recommended by the seller. That was my first huge mistake.

Chief failed the flexion test in his right rear leg. The vet did it twice, and each time, Chief trotted off with his right rear leg held clear in the air for five strides. I could tell that it was hurting him. The vet pegged it on a stifle issue, and palpated the heck out of the horse with absolutely no reaction. He tested the hoof, and again, no reaction from the horse. But the horse still seemed to have a very slight limp. In the end, the vet said that for our purposes (light pleasure riding), Chief was "sound enough", though he did question the right rear leg. I asked him if X-rays were warranted, and his answer was that if this was not intended to be a competition horse, then x-rays really would just be a waste of our money.

My husband and I talked a lot about this, and decided that we'd give Chief a try, but only if the seller would sign a contract guaranteeing the soundness of his leg. We figured it was really the only way to get out of our two crazy Walking Horses (one is a violent bucker, the other is uncontrollable on the ground). The seller immediately agreed to the contract.

My trainer helped me trailer the two TWH's out to the seller's place, and while she was there, I asked her to give me her evaluation of Chief. She rode him fresh and watched him move, and the first thing she asked the seller was if the horse had ever had any surgery in the right rear leg, specifically the stifle. Seller denied it until he was blue in the face. He then went on to say the horse had acquired a stone bruise in that hoof in the two days between the vet check and this day. We were skeptical, but he agreed to sign the contract, which I had written myself (based on sample legal contracts obtained online).

I got him home, gave him some time to settle in, and set about getting to know him. He is a wonderful, wonderful horse. But he really has a hitch in his gait. I figured this was something I could live with, because in terms of temperament, he was absolutely perfect for us.

I kept getting this nagging feeling that a piece of the puzzle was missing. So I got his Coggins papers out, and called the previous owner of record. He immediately told me that I'd bought myself a wonderful little trail horse, but he'd never be gaited quite right. I asked him why, and his reply was that Chief had had a tendon surgically cut in his right rear leg in April! He said he'd had stiffness in the stifle resulting from an old undetermined injury, or so they thought. His vet thought clipping the tendon would free up the movement in that leg.

Over time, I've found out more and more about the seller, and he's quite an unsavory, dishonest character. And he's selling my bucking TWH as an "anybody-can-ride" horse. To my knowledge, he's now bucked off five prospective buyers. I've personally talked to two of them, and they both told me that the seller "beat the hell" out of him each time. Nice guy, huh?

Anyway, my new vet came out to the barn to give Chief the rest of his vaccinations (that the seller had also lied about), and just to be sure, I asked him to take a look at his leg. We've been riding him in lessons once a week, and about two additional times a week in the arena. He favors the leg somewhat, but not a lot, under saddle. But when standing tied, he ALWAYS cocks that leg, and sometimes even holds it clear off the ground. I've had him on Glanzen GL (a joint supplement w/ Glucosamine, ChonDrOitin, and the whole nine yards) for about six weeks, and it seems to have made a bit of difference. The vet took one look at him and said, "it's the right rear fetlock, right?" WHAT?! Uh, no, it's the right rear stifle. He kept zeroing in on the fetlock, though. Said it didn't look right. This particular vet was recommended to me as the best "leg guy" in the St. Louis area. And he immediately pegged it as being the fetlock. He had me lead the horse off, and he told me that the horse was lame, and shouldn't be ridden. He then nerve blocked the fetlock. It took several injections and about 20 minutes of waiting, but it finally went numb. He did a hard flexion test of both the fetlock and the stifle, separately. Lo and behold, no limping AT ALL. I'd never seen Chief move so cleanly.

The vet came back and took films of the fetlock today. He called me this evening, and said that there was "significant change" in the fetlock, and that he had severe arthritis in both the front of the joint and the back. In his opinion, the stifle was misdiagnosed, and the tendon was cut for no reason. In Missouri, with gaited horses, when in doubt, cut a stifle tendon! It happens all the time. We've got some whack vets out here! They seem to forget that gaited horses have any joints other than the stifle!

Anyway, the vet said that the horse definitely should not be ridden by adults, and will never be sound enough or strong enough in that leg for trails. He said he'd like to try an injection of anti-inflammatory and hyaluronic acid in the joint, and see how he does. He also suggested buteing him the day before, of, and after any riding. But he really has strong doubts that this horse will ever be sound enough for me to ride, without causing him a lot of distress and pain. Chief is a very stoic horse, and has never once complained. If I ask him to work, he works, and suffers in silence. I feel terrible that I've been causing him pain by riding him. I've only had him since the last week of July. But I can only imagine the pain he's been in.

Here's my dilemma (or at least part of it). I have a guarantee, in writing, on Chief's injured leg. The contract says that if the leg is found to be unsound within two years of purchase, the seller will take him back and replace him with a horse of equal or greater value. The problem is, the guy's an absolute snake, and I would NEVER take a horse from him again. Additionally, I would NEVER take Chief back to the guy and let him abuse him again, knowing that he'd only turn around and sell him as a sound riding horse to someone else.

We really didn't expect to be paying all sorts of money for continued treatment of an injury. We expected to buy a trail horse, which Chief will never be. We've enjoyed taking lessons on him, and building up our confidence with him. And I've enjoyed tremendously just spending time with him and bonding. He's a truly awesome horse. But if he turns out to be unsound to ride, what do we do? Pay monthly board to keep him as a lawn ornament at the barn? I've considered (if he doesn't respond to treatment and is not rideable) donating him to a therapeutic riding center as a mount for handicapped children under 80 pounds (he has carried handicapped riders before). Those centers usually don't overuse their horses, and are usually on good, even footing. And they take excellent care of their horses.

Can any of you give me your experiences with injuries like this? I've read through the entire archives just about, and still aren't sure of his chances of recovering enough to be ridden. In your opinion, is the cost of continual injections, bute, and supplement worth only being able to ride him in an arena lightly, and possibly causing him pain even then? Any suggestions out there?

Thanks so much, if nothing else, for letting me talk.

Erin
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 5:09 am:

Dear Erin,

First I would do everything I could to put the horribly abusive trainer OUT OF BUSINESS!

I would call the ASPCA immediately to begin an investigation into the unforgivable unsavory animal abuse behavior occurring to these defenseless horses!!! It takes awhile for them to build a case.

Then I would get yourself an attorney and sue the #*#*#* out if him for breech of contract. If you have spoken to the people who have been bucked off the other 2 crazy horse's you have witnesses to this mans unspeakable behavior.

In California we do not take animal abuse lightly as you and most others wouldn't even think about mistreating an animal, any animal.

I beg you please go after this horrible man!!!!

It sounds like Chief has bonded to you. I can only imagine how he feels, you have saved him from a disgusting existence.

My client has a 28yr old Missouri Fox Trotter mare. She has not seen her horse in almost a year due to health problems. She does however pay all the bills of course.

When the horse came to me she had hock sores to the bone and bleeding, scratches, rain rot, lame on 2 maybe 3 legs, she had no frogs in any of her feet,her feet were in the worst condition I have ever seen in 37yrs, conjunctivitis in both eyes, worms,she had severe tooth decay, she was a least 100lbs over weight, her mane was falling out, and just to top it off she has Cushins Disease.

The owner had told me she had been paying for the mare to be cared for yet the girl supposedly caring for her was just taking the money and neglecting poor Angel.

After about 3months she began to get better as of course I did everything in my power to give her only the best care such as bedding, supplements, aggressive hoof care, veterinary care,proper shoeing, turn outs with my jumper-they are best friends, and a lot of flat trailing. I would ride my jumper and pony the mare.

Now she is the best bomb proof kid teacher for kids under 80lbs. She gets ridden walk trot only 1-2x a week for about 20-35 minutes. She lives in a 24X48 open pipe corral. Her attitude has much improved and she is happy.

For Chief only Dr.O can tell you the medical part of it. You had two horses before why not get one more and keep Chief. Have the courts take the other two crazy horses you traded and donate them to a University or charity with horse people who are loving and can care for crazy horses and make them happy and sane again.

My jumper was one of those crazy horses 5 yrs ago when I met him. He is now my puppy dog that follows me everywhere. I won't go into the story. The moral is and always will be anyone with a heart can train most horses(99.9%)with love and patience.

At Foxfield Riding Academy they trained us at an early age to never to use whips,chains or spurs only hand and leg. Gaining trust with your animal is key to any riders success.

Look up Monty Roberts. I get a kick out of this guy. He is so sweet and kind with the horses. He has just recently begun a program in London for students with behavioral problems. He is introducing the children to the world of horses. The children care for the horses a few hours a day and learn to respect the animals and themselves at the same time.

Anyway sorry for the long message. I cannot understand animal abuse. It is hard to even write about it. Chief is obviously happy with you and happy to be away from that horrible man who should be s#*#*.

Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do. I hope you win the war!!!

WTG
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 9:28 am:

With arthritis in the fetlock your veterinarians assessment seems right on. Concerning your next step with the horse you have to look at your goals and assets to determine what your next best step is and I like the idea of a therapeutic riding center. From your description I am uncertain the local humane organizations can get anywhere, I am afraid ignorance or a heavy hand is not enough to act on in most jurisdictions. If you did see clearly abusive practices or horses whose condition was poor you ought try but at the very least a report to the local BBB about your experiences might steer others away. If he can't get clients he will go out of business.
DrO
Member:
Dres

Posted on Saturday, Oct 22, 2005 - 9:56 am:

Erin... there is always a home for a good old boy that will pack a young child around happily... but you have to look .. and be careful on who you ''let'' have him... I have seen many retired lame horses go to nice pastures to take care of the young weanlings and young children living on the ranch...

good luck...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
Member:
Erinport

Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 11:26 am:

Thanks, everyone. I am going to take this one day at a time. Chief is pretty happy where he is now, I just have to figure out whether or not he can be ridden comfortably. I've read that a constant Bute regimen will often cause ulcers, and that's not something I want to give him on top of a sore leg. There are only a couple therapeutic schools around here, and my vet told me that one of them definitely does not take horses that need constant medical care. They go on donation only, and buying medicines and supplements cuts into their meager budget too much. I thought about seeing if they would take him if I would agree to donate his supplements each time. That way they wouldn't have to worry about that cost. Chief has carried a handicapped woman many, many times for his previous owner. The guy's daughter is handicapped, and cannot ride independently, so they put her on Chief and ponied him behind another horse. So we know he can handle the special situation of carrying a handicapped rider. He just can't carry a handicapped adult.

The guy who sold him to me has already unloaded my two TWH geldings at a sale, from what I understand. Of course, he had to go and make them half out of their minds first. But he did it. They both need a lot of work and TLC, but from an experienced horse person. They were too much for us, as we're relative beginners and can still get intimidated.

There really isn't anything I can do about the seller, except maybe put the word out that he's a crazy, abusive old coot, and hope other people don't buy from him. I can also contact the BBB, but very few people around here bother to check on businesses before dealing with them. It's just not a well-known avenue around here.

I think for now, I'm going to take the vet's advice, and do the first round of injections, and Bute him when we intend to ride him. If he maintains an acceptable level of comfort, we'll ride him in lessons only through the winter. In the meantime, I'll advertise him and see if I can't find a family who wants a really nice pet horse. A family who will be willing to take on a special needs horse that their kids can learn horse care with. Chief is wonderful and tolerant and patient, and would be a nice family horse. If any of you know of any families just looking for something like that, spread the word. I can help out on transportation.

If any of you have anything further to add on this type of injury, I would appreciate it greatly. I really love this horse, and want to do everything I can to keep him happy, sound and comfortable.

Thanks!

Erin
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 25, 2005 - 6:32 am:

Hello Erin,
There is a way to safely give bute in these situations and you will find an explanation along with desciptions of many other treatment ideas at, Equine Diseases » Lameness » Joint & Bone Diseases » Arthritis and DJD: An Overview.
DrO
Member:
Erinport

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 3, 2006 - 2:34 pm:

Hi Everyone-

Just a quick update on Chief. We did the injections, and he did very well with them. My vet, farrier, and I are also working together on getting his feet in good shape. We've got him barefoot in a natural four-point trim, with a good healthy mustang roll, and it's making a world of difference. We've reduced his work load, and have kept him on the joint supplement, and all of this together has had amazing results.

He's been listed for sale for about a month. I've gotten a lot of interest, but no takers. I email X-rays to anyone who wants to see them, and encourage prospective buyers to discuss the radiographs with their vet if they're uncertain. Maybe I've "unsold" him to a few people, but I'd rather do that than sell him to someone who doesn't realize what an undertaking it could possibly be.

So he's at our barn still, back to his old self, galloping and cavorting with the other boys, not showing a sign of lameness. And I'm hoping to sell him as soon as possible, as I've just bought an awesome little MFT mare to replace him as my trail horse. Hubby is throwing fits about boarding fees for two horses, even with the multi-horse discount!

I'll try to attach a photo on here, so you can all see my beautiful boy!

Thanks again, everyone, for the great comments and advice!

Erin
Member:
Erinport

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 3, 2006 - 2:35 pm:

By the way, the above photo was taken just a few days after we brought Chief home. His feet no longer look like that, and he no longer favors that leg. It's just the best photo I had of him. He currently looks like a bad imitation of a woolly mammoth!

Erin
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 4, 2006 - 6:15 am:

That is good news Erin. This is a great story for those dealing with unknown lameness issues and the power of accurate localization, my hats off to your vet for taking the time. If you have a moment a accurate description of the changes the vet saw in the radiographs, maybe you have a written report to copy from, along with your experiences with work load and soundness might help others.
DrO
Member:
Erinport

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 4, 2006 - 10:27 am:

Thanks, DrO. There never really was much of a written report, but the vet did email me the digital X-rays. I'll try to attach one or two of them on here. You may want to throw an X-ray of a "normal" fetlock on here for comparison. When the vet showed me a normal X-ray, it really made it visible to me, as a non-veterinary person.

Erin

P.S. Trying to post X-rays, and they're too large. HA won't let me. DrO, can I email them to you, and you can resize them? I'm not sure how. And I'm not sure which of the five views best show the arthritic change. Let me know. Thanks!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 5, 2006 - 5:59 am:

Yes that would be fine Erin or if you would like to learn more about posting images and how to correct this problem of image and file size see, Inspiration, Art, Entertainment members_only » Images. We have several free programs that you can download that will adjust the image and file size.
DrO
Member:
Erinport

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2006 - 11:30 pm:

Hi Everyone-

Good news! Chief has been sold! He's going to live with a 10-year old girl named Jess, who lives in Kansas City. Jess has been battling cancer for the last two years, and is now in remission. I think she and Chief will be very good for one another. They will meet one another next Sunday, to start their new life together. Jess's mom has extensive experience with arthritis in horses, as they have one "geriatric" that she's been treating for years for arthritis (among other things). So I feel very good, and very relieved, about this new home he'll be going to. Thanks to everyone for your advice and support. And a special thanks to Holly for her gracious offer of a loving home for my special boy. Holly is as excited as I am by his new home, but I truly appreciate my new friendship with her, and her offer of help. Thanks again, everyone!

Erin
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 5, 2006 - 8:42 am:

That IS great news Erin.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Feb 5, 2006 - 10:16 am:

This is wonderful! Good luck to Chief and the little girl.
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 4:35 am:

Dear Erin,

I am so glad you hung in there and found a great home for Chief. People like you restore my faith in the world and make it a better place!

Congratulations on a difficult job well done.

Sincerely,

WTG
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