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  Discussion on Ppossible epm
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Member:
Kari

Posted on Friday, Oct 28, 2005 - 9:59 pm:

Dr. O.

I have a three yr. filly that has been diagnosed with emp.

Blood tests have been sent to confirm whether she is positive or negative. I'll probably have further questions on this due to her symptoms however at present we have been monitoring her behavior and have found that her left side, particularlly below the hock and knee are consideringly colder than her right side.

This has been observed by her trainer, her farrier, and myself. I have even checked other horses and the difference is quite apparent.

In your opinion, is this significant as far as possible epm, wn, or other disorders. I sent a similar inquiry yesterday but apparently it did not go thru.

Thanks in advance.

ST
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 29, 2005 - 10:01 am:

You should note that the blood test is not diagnostic for EPM, see the article for more on this. No EPM is not likely to cause such a change, instead it suggests possible circulatory problems. Could you describe the symptoms?
DrO
Member:
Kari

Posted on Sunday, Oct 30, 2005 - 6:44 pm:

Dr.O,

To give you a short history, this filly is being trained for WP. On Fri. Oct.2lth she was trailered to Murry, Ky. for a show. The trainer did not notice anything wrong except she hesitated to load. She was not ridden on Fri. only fed. On Sat. morn. the trainer saddled her up early for a workout. She seemed stiff to him and when he asked for the lope she refused. Sencing something wrong he returned to the stall and fed her her morning grain and hay. Shortly afterwards I arrived and when we checked her, she had not eaten anything and was standing with her pointed into a corner paying no attention to any of the activity around her. Her temp. was 101.5, her resp. approx. 34 per min. Her pulse was so faint we could not get an accurate reading.

At this point we suspected tying up or colic, however she had two bowel movement during the time the trainer had her saddled and you could easily hear gut sounds. No sweating or rolling and no moving around. Her head hung below her withers.

In attempting to load her to go to a local vet, the trainer had to pull her and I had to push her from the rear to get her to move. She wasn't staggering but moving more as if she was in pain.

The vet gave her a physical exam, raising and pulling the legs and tail. While she was reluctant, she did not ever come close to losing her balance and falling. He also tested each hoof with a hoof tester but she showed no tenderness in the feet. He then pulled blood to test for emzine (sp) levels and they showed all to be within normal range. At this point he suggested possible epm and advised us to place her in a quiet stall and administer 1.5 ccs of banamine and ace twice a day for 2 dys until we could have her checked by her regular vet. He also advised us to take her grain and feed only hay.

We have followed this routine and have only added grain in the last 2 days after consultation with this vet. Her vital signs today was 101.5 temp.,9 to 14 resp. per min. Her pulse is still too faint to count. She no longer has the temp. variation I referred to originally. She is not sweating, rolling, or staggering. She still remains in a depressed state with her head below her withers. She is eating all her grain (approx. 3lbs) and her hay (approx. 5 lbs.) twice a day. Normal bowel sounds and movement. She will move slowly to find her grain and hay but otherwise remains still and shows little interest in any outside activity.

Sorry for the length but would appreciate any thoughts from you.

S. T.
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Monday, Oct 31, 2005 - 12:36 am:

Dear ST Bruce,

What is her normal environment? Is she still at this show you were speaking of, or is she back at home? Have you noticed any stiffness before? How long have you owned her? Has she lost anyone close to her like a companion horse,person or another animal? How long was the trailer ride to KY show and did she ride with another horse?

Just curious,

WTG
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 31, 2005 - 7:26 am:

The cause of the depression is not evident in your post so you need to have your vet out today and examine the horse and possibly do more extensive blood work if the cause remains a mystery. I have to say the idea of giving a depressed horse a sedatvie with normal blood work and not suspect for founder is a bit confusing and did he really prescribe 1.5 cc of Banamine?
DrO
Member:
Vickiann

Posted on Monday, Oct 31, 2005 - 10:14 am:

Like WTG, I am interested in how long the trailer ride was, as well as how the horse was tied, whether the trip involved stopping and taking the horses off the trailer or was a straight through trip. Too many hours of bracing certainly will make a horse very stiff. I received one shipped to me who could not hold his neck normally after a trip from Pennsylvania to Florida. It took a number of days to straighten him out physically. His legs nearly buckled under him after exiting the trailer and he could not walk normally. His digestive system was very sluggish and he was a bit dehydrated. Within a few days he was fine.
Member:
Kari

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 1, 2005 - 7:39 pm:

Dr. O,

I was incorrect in the dosage or at least my trainer heard it differently. The prescription( according to my trainer) was for 10ccs of banamine and 1 cc of Ace given twice daily for two days. This was done for the Sun. and Mon. following the episode.

The regular vet for the trainer saw her late yesterday for two reasons. First, because she had developed a large abcess in the area where the first vet and probably the trainer had given the shots. He drained the abcess and was to prepare medicine for my trainer to give her this AM. Second, to check her for the episode. I have not been able to talk to him today for his opinion, however she was so sore in the shoulder from the abcess, I doubt he was unable to get a clear picture of how she appeared on Sat.

The good news is that when I saw her later the same evening that the vet drained the abcess, she was noticiably brighter and moving much better. Her head was above her withers and she was much more aware of any activity around her.

Assuming that she is coming back to normal is there any blood work that would indicate what caused the episode?

This filly has never been a "laid back" individual during training. She doesn't like bending or moving her hips but will give in when required to do so. We have shown her in several small Sat. nite shows and have taken her to larger AQHA shows where she stayed Fri thru Sun. in indoor stalls and was ridden in the warm up pens and areans in order to acclimate her to show activity. She had, up to this episode, handles the exposure well.

To: WTG & Vicki

The trip to Murray was approx. 65 miles, non-stop on a good paved two lane highway. She was stalled indoor with approx. 200 horses. She was tied in the trailer with approx. 18" of tie so that her head was above her withers and accompaied by a two year old filly she was farmilar with. No food or water was given during the ride.

She is out of a favorite mare of mine and for the most part lived an uneventful childhood with 24/7 turnout. She was started in May of her 2 yr. old year but when she didn't just "fall into" WP after two months I removed her from training and turned her out at home until Feb. of her third year for additional training. She has done well except for the areas I addressed to Dr. O.

Thank you for your interest.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 2, 2005 - 8:35 am:

Got it ST, though the initial episode remains a mystery it looks like the ongoing trouble is likely to have been found.
DrO
Member:
Vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 2, 2005 - 10:01 am:

Glad the filly is improving (and can see the episode should not relate to trailer stress).
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