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Discussion on Toeing Out in a Young Prospect
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 12:09 pm:
Hi all,
In my search for my next horse to replace Guinness, I have found a very nice young gelding who toes out. I wanted to hear of experiences from folks who have dealt with horses with this defect. Did they become lame, if so, with what work load and at what age. How bad were they and where did the toeing out come from (knee, shoulder, pastern).
This horse is 2.5 years old. He is not narrow through the shoulder, he toes out from the pastern. I really like him, but I don't want to open myself up for heart break and I don't want to make him lame. He would do very well as a dressage horse as well. He does not paddle or wing.
I would be using him as a 3 or 3'6" hunter, not in the conformation hunters, though.
If you want a video of it, please post your e mail and I will forward the video of him to you.
Thanks!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 9:30 pm:
Hi Alicia,
I bet your going to have to get a photo to show everyone at HA. But, as a general rule, toeing out is not a huge concern. Of course the severity needs to be established. We just bought a med pony that toes out a lot at the pasturn. The vet could have cared less. This pony has done the local hunter shows and everything. She is 11 and quite sound.
Here is my theory on the less than perfect horse. . . . Quite often, a minor conformation fault (or even a minor soundness issue) is just enough to cause a vigilant owner to stay on top of their shoeing and take good care of the legs. This, in turn, significantly improves the future soundness of any horse.
On the other hand . . . you have a horse that passes its soundness exam with flying colors. The owner goes Yee haw ! Never thinks twice and ends up with with soundness issues 5 years down the road because they did not take those extra measures.
Also, a quick check you can do is a fetlock flexion test. I was asking Dr O. maybe to post some guidelines on the do-it-yourself flexion test for horse owners or potential buyers. I havent checked if he has pulled anything together yet.
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 - 9:34 pm:
Also, some young horses change in the chest area as they age. This can cause the front legs to widen and change their orientation slightly.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 - 5:55 pm:
I need to figure out how to get a photo off the movie she sent me. I will work on that again on Monday when I get to work, can't do much from home. The owner sent me four clips of him walking toward and away from the camera. The issue is, I have other prospects with better conformation, but none jump or move as well as this one, he doesn't wing or paddle either.
I will add a photo when I can. Any other experiences? By the way, thanks for your experience!
Alicia
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 - 6:13 pm:
I think toeing out is easier on the joints then toeing in....
good luck on your search...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 24, 2005 - 9:17 pm:
Alicia, what is his breeding? If he has some warmblood he could easily change over the next few years. I have seen my latest two year old with different angles on most all of her joints almost weekly, but I have faith in the eventual outcome because of my experience with the slow growth of the Trakehners. I don't know for sure about TBs, but I'm sure plenty of HA folks can comment.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 6:52 am:
Alicia there is not enough information in your post to make a judgement or even compare your situation with others. The degree of rotation, how far up the limb the rotation goes, the degree of angular deviation (which sometimes accompanies rotation), foot conformation and wear, and how the horse travels all will figure in to how dysfunctional the legs are. If you email me the movie, horseadvice@horseadvice.com, I will see if it will install in this discussion.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 11:17 am:
Stacy,
His breeding is Dutch, I think crossed with TB.
Dr. O.,
I will do that Monday, our uplink is so slow here it times out before I can get much off. That would be the best, as you can see what he does very well in the videos.
I checked my mare, and to my surprise, she toes out a slight bit too. Not as much as he does, but I hadn't ever looked before. Never been lame in the front ever since I had her.
I can't wait to get to work and mail the videos.
Oh regarding trims, when I spoke to the owner she said he has not been trimmed specially because in cases like his it can make it worse. She is a pretty large breeder in Canada, so I figure she is probably more knowledgeble than I am on these matters.
Thanks all!
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Monday, Nov 28, 2005 - 3:55 pm:
Dr. O.,
I sent you the videos. There are a total of 4 in two messages.
Alicia
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 6:26 am:
Got them Alicia, I will see what I can do with them.
DrO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 9:06 am:
Here are the films that Alicia submitted. Note they are all around a meg in size so will be slow to download on anything except a high speed connection:
Front Legs:
Walking Toward You:
Rear Legs:
Walking Away From You:
Please feel free to comment on them.
DrO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 9:29 am:
Well Alicia,
The films show a horse that moderately toes out front and rear but the whole leg is rotated out and appears to align well. The horse does wing-in as would be expected with this confirmation but does not interfere in any of the movies, though it is close behind. Are there any signs of interference? Even if not so at this time, when the horse is worked in earnest it may occur.
I would also be interested in how the feet are trimmed, particularly the medial lateral balance and does the foot look symmetrical when viewed from the bottom. Does the apex of the frog point toward the apex of the toes wall or has there been a strong attempt at adjusting the appearance and flight of the foot? If so there will be extra stress on the lower joints.
All in all I have certainly seen horses that appeared as this horse does that remained sound when used for dressage or hunting but this does not take the place of a careful evaluation where the horse is looked at under different views and different conditions particularly when lunged and/or worked under saddle.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 10:01 am:
Dr. O.,
I will forward your message to the owner to see what she has to say to answer your questions. I will ask for a photo too.
I want to do the 3'6" hunters with him, so he would need to stand up to some pretty high jumping for a long time.
By the way, here is a site where you can see him free move at trot and do some jumping.
https://www.summerbrookfarm.com/pages/12/index.htm
Oh, and in case I didn't mention it, he is 2.5 years old right now.
Alicia
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 10:52 am:
Just my personal opinion as a warmblood breeder and a three-day competitor - too much to pay for more than one conformation issue in an unstarted horse. Is he a little narrow in the chest as well? The only thing that would make it different for me would be if he was already under saddle, so I could weigh what I had performance-wise. Good luck with your search. Stacy
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 11:13 am:
Greetings from wet Northern CA... 
Alicia , I down loaded the video of your prospect... I am on a very slow hook up and got most of my kitchen / bathrooms cleaned while I did.. LOLL...
Anyway , he is very cute... Black? I would venture to say a dark / seal bay.... but videos / pictures are not always accurate...!
I can't see the confirmation by the video , being narrow in front is not a bad thing at this age.. In fact he could be narrow for a few more years while growing and muscling... base narrow behind might be an issue down the road....
He travels nicely at the trot , the canter is not a natural balanced canter , but that can be youth / butt high ..
If the toeing out is not that bad and can be managed... I think you could get a nice horse for that money...
Just my two cents...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 12:52 pm:
Stacy,
Well, in my intensive search, I have not found anything that has a nice a hunter trot as he does. Also, his jump is on par with the best ones I have seen. Note, I only have 10 thousand to spend, as I stupidly didn't insure Guinness for more than that, but it does limit my choices quite a bit, even in youngsters.
He should be ready to be lightly started in the spring.
Ann,
I really like his look too, and the white socks really add to it. Funny you think his canter is unbalanced, as my dressage trainer, who is VERY picky about balance, thought it was balanced, especially for his age.
Well, so far I have a lot more information than I started with, and I figured going here would help that ;)
I guess the next step is to send the video to my vet.
In the mean time, I have about 10 other horses I am looking at!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 8:21 pm:
Dear Alicia,
I think it is great you are looking at new horses. Good for you!! I am sure that Guiness is watching out for you from heaven.
While searching for horses I have found 99% of the time that the perfect horse will find you. You will instantly know when you have found your new horse. There will be no questions in your mind to be answered. Only a clean vet check to look forward to for you and your new horse.
Good luck in your endeavor!!
WTG
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 7:52 am:
WTG,
The problem is that I thought he WAS the one. Then I found out about his conformation. I would have already bought him except for this. That is why I am trying so hard to make sure it won't be a problem for him down the road.
Alicia
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 7:36 am:
I have found that if I focus on one specific problem it never becomes a problem. Some other problem jumps up and bites me from the blue. I would take a look at his parents and siblings. Do they have similar confirmation? Are they sound or have they had problems. If all is well there I would x-ray the feet, ankles and hocks and do a complete set of flexion tests. If all is well - go for it. There are no guarantees but you have covered your bases pretty well.
The other think I think is good for any youngster who is bound for a physically demanding career is starting them young on a joint supplement to prevent problems rather than have to treat them later. I like the Recovery EQ.
I'm glad you have found one you like!
Ella 
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Friday, Dec 9, 2005 - 3:49 am:
Dear Alicia,
Just wanted to say I can see you have put a lot of time and effort into this animal. The hard facts of life are sometimes just that. Sometimes it sucks to be an adult because we are the ones who must make these difficult decisions.
If you feel this is the horse for you and you can live with the possibility he may not turn out the way you want, I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment down the road.
I will say he sure has a willingness and a good attitude to jump. He does jump very cute. From the video he looked pretty well balanced in the air to me.
I agree with Stacy about being narrow in the chest maybe he will get wider. The amount of money is way tooo much. I also agree with Shelly he may change with time for the better or maybe not. That's a 50/50 chance you would have to take. I also agree with Ella about his ancestry. Are there any direct brothers or sisters you can look at for the toeing out issue? Can you see his parents or their parents?
In Belgium or Europe you can buy a made horse for $5000 or less. Shipping can be arranged by your broker, I think it is around $3500-$4000.
My friends did it last year and the year before. They all came home with amazing horses who have been showing on the AA circuit and winning.
Just a idea. Good luck to you in whatever you decide.
WTG
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 9, 2005 - 3:35 pm:
WTG,
Here is a site with all sorts of half brothers and sisters.
https://www.mts.net/~woodhave/sales2.htm
He is by Dublin a Dutch stallion, out of a TB mare.
I have talked to a lot of people about this particular defect mainly because I was so taken with him the moment I saw him.
I am getting him vetted, and will get him extensively x rayed if he passes the vetting.
I am not going to offer near what they are asking, though he is nicer than many that I have seen people asking double what these folks are asking.
I have another favorite here
https://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/SearchResult1.asp?Name=Valantje who doesn't have the defect, and is a mare, which is what I wanted. But she is a lot more expensive, and doesn't move or jump quite as nice as the gelding. She is tied with him really as far as I am concerned, but I just like West Jett better.
Also, importing was something I thought of, but I really didn't look too hard as far as that went.
I am not locked in yet, if you know of anything or any sites I could look on.
Alicia
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Friday, Dec 9, 2005 - 9:01 pm:
Hi Alicia, did you do the "advanced search" on www.dreamhorse.com? I love that site because you can really refine your search by about 20 parameters, including price and area of the country, breed, discipline, even down to desired colors! Check it out - I find it useful when I am selling to help me set pricing in a current market sense. Good luck, Stacy
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Friday, Dec 9, 2005 - 9:17 pm:
Dear Alicia,
I looked at the mare. From the one jumping photo they show I see the mare uses her hind end a little better than Westjett. But Westjett uses his front 90% better than the mare. Photos can be deceiving so it is really difficult to compare the two without seeing them in person or on good video.
With video one can pause and slow motion through the horses moves. This could be beneficial to you if you were able to get video clips on both and slow mo them. You will be amazed at what you see and don't see.
I used to be a professional photographer. Great images can show you everything that is right and wrong with any horse.
Since both of these prospects are still babies, their jumping form should improve as they get older and more skilled.
As long as the horse you want passes the most vigorous of vet testing as well as XRAYS and or radiographs, go for it with all the glory you possess.
If I had to pick between the two it would be Westjett. #1Because I do not like mares and dealing with their heats. #2 In Westjetts jumping photo it looks to me like he uses himself better than the mare. Again still photos can be deceiving.
I would also keep looking while I made my decision carefully and slowly.
My friend is a trainer here in Malibu Calif. Every year she goes to Germany, Belgium and other parts of Europe to buy horses for her clients. She always comes home with the most beautiful movers and jumpers. If you want her name & phone# email me privately at angelcastingusa@yahoo.com
Good luck I am so envious. I would love to be looking at horses for sale everyday if I could. The more you see the more you get the idea of just how many horses are out there waiting for you.
WTG
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Monday, Dec 12, 2005 - 10:52 am:
Stacy,
Yes, every day!!!
WTG,
I private e mailed you.
Everyone,
He should be getting vetted today. I asked the vet to do a regular exam without x rays for now. If he passes that, I will go all out with the x rays. Of course, it is about negative 10 degrees up there right now, so the vet didn't think the x rays would come out anyway!
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 10:33 am:
All,
In the excitement of looking and getting closer to getting a nice new baby, I am going to get into the more serious thing, finding names ;) !!
I have named my last two show horses Poetic Justice and Poetic Inspiration (the ones before that were named by my trainer and were silly, Strike a Pose and Somerset). Lilly's baby has the name Poetic reserved for it when it comes. I was thinking Poetic License but what other two word phrases with Poetic are out there?
Also, if I get a mare, I would like to give her a barn name that is a flower. I have had Jazzmin, Lilly and Laurel. If a boy, I want to name it after a beer. I have had Guinness and Foster.
Any suggestions? I prefer the name to have some meaning (Guinness got his name because he was dark and stout), but it doesn't have to.
Thanks all!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 11:02 am:
I always keep the name the horse comes with whether I like it or not as I have heard it is bad luck to change the name. However, my dad changes his horses names all the time and has always had good luck. Just another old cowboy tale I guess....
Some good names might be:
for the girls:
Dahlia, Foxglove, Iris, Sage
for the boys:
India (pale ale), Molson, Corona, Grolsch, Kirin. Smithwicks and of course, my all time favorite - Chimay!!!!
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 11:44 am:
Debbie,
Oh my g**, if I had done that, I would have been laughed out of the ring with Lilly. Her JC name was Matilda May
So far, I have Ivy at the top of my list, but it isn't technically a flower. Iris is one I like too. Foxglove is poisonous, so I will probably avoid that one . I also like Hazel, Bell (for Bellflower), Lark (for larkspur), and Clary (clary sage).
I like Kirin, hadn't thought of that one.
I had Miller, Harper (Harp), Rocky (Rolling Rock), Cooper (Coopers) and Murphy (Irish Stout). Kirin is good because I don't have to change the name at all for it to work.
Thanks!!
Alicia
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 12:07 pm:
Yes some horses have truly bad names. We now own a Sonny as a result of my "don't change the name" rule. I also owned a "Beep Beep" when I was a kid. I hated the name at first, but then it grew on me. Because we did junior jumpers, the announcer always had a great time saying "there goes Beep Beep the Roadrunner!"
It's all good.
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 12:56 pm:
How about Poetic Memory?
It seems fitting.
Ella
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 12:59 pm:
My first horse had the distinction of being named "Super Dupe" (fortunately his registered name was better, Loftier Power, and I used that one in the show ring). I really wanted to change the Super Dupe, but a friend convinced me to keep it. I always had trouble explaining that it wasn't MY idea of a good name...Of course, now I have Sparkles - again, not my choice - which is probably more apropriate for a cute little pony than a big elegant warmblood.
When Dupe & I first showed, I remember hearing an announcer declare the winner of one class. The horse's name was Big Truckin' Momma. Over the fuzzy PA system, the name of this horse sounded...ummm...well, use your imagination . We nearly fell out of our chairs laughing...
So, whatever you decide to name your horse, say it out loud a couple of times and consider how it might sound when announced at a show!
Have fun!
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 1:15 pm:
Ella,
That does seem fitting. I will mill that one around. I will have to consider whether it will make me too sad all the time.
Fran C, Debbie,
Yes, I have heard many a strange name. We hunter folks try to make sure it is pronouncable. Regular words are good things ;)
I get to name Lilly's baby an unpronouncable name, as it will only be it's Dutch registered name, and I won't use it for show. I have found some really beautiful Welch names that I really like, but I bet no announcer would be able to pronounce!
Examples -
If it is a male Cerwyn, pronounced KER win, means fair love in Celtic.
If it is a female Caoimhe, pronounced KEY va, means gentleness beauty and grace in Celtic.
I had a really neat one if she had a boy when she was first pregnant (it was an A year). Ahearn, which means lord of the horses in Celtic. Would have been cool, it was a boy too .
Alicia
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 1:31 pm:
Alecia,
As for boys names...after beer...I like Killian's and Shinerbock (an old Texas favorite) or you could go foreign, Orien beer was our favorite in Okinawa.
And as for Poetic...here are a few that come to mind...Poetic Style if she is flashy, Poetic Rhythm if well...she has good rhythm, Poetic Vision if you have visions of winning, Poetic Intentions, Poetic Capability if she is willing and capable, Poetic Art if she is a true work of art, Poetic Form if she has great form, and my favorite...Poetic Tribute, perhaps as a combination of using the poetic name and a tribute to Guinness.
Good luck naming! So glad to hear you are doing well.
Take care,
Corinne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 1:50 pm:
Corinne,
WOW, thanks for all those. I will put them on my list and mull them over. I figure when I pick the horse, I should have a list of names to choose from and see which one fits.
I am doing better, but I still think of him all the time. I count each day as less of a day without him. However, I am looking at this as an opportunity to choose a new horse that I wouldn't have had. I can now use my extra experience and knowledge I have gained to hopefully choose a good prospect that I can train to be another star and another friend.
Alicia
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 2:27 pm:
You folks are amazing!
I think you have initiated THE HORSEMAN'S ADISOR BOOK OF HORSE NAMES)
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Member:
Dsibley
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 2:54 pm:
Oops...I hadn't heard it was bad luck to change names...I changed my Baron's name from 'Zaino', which I was told meant healthy and sound in Spanish. Well, I don't speak Spanish and neither does he, so it got changed to something a little more refined.
I also changed my mare from Janie to Java. The barn where I board is owned by a Jamie, and I was afraid that if I said Janie looked like she was getting fat, I would get kicked out!
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 3:27 pm:
Yes, bad luck. Read this article to see how far people will go to not change a name....
https://www.royalarchive.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=212&Itemid =2
ZARA RIDES INTO TSUNAMI ROW: Royal's horse name blunder
Written by Judith Duffy, Daily Record
Monday, 07 March 2005
ZARA PHILLIPS has ridden into a storm of controversy after entering a horse named Tsunami II into competitions.
The Queen's granddaughter spent thousands of pounds buying a share of the mount over the winter.
She has entered him in the first two cross-country events of the season.
But Princess Anne's girl passed up the chance to change his name following the Asian tsunami which killed thousands.
A showjumping source said yesterday: 'Zara bought this horse over the winter and has entered it as a novice.
'Once a horse has reached the advanced level, owners can't change its competition name, even if they want to.
'To reach advanced level, horses must accumulate 61 points or more - with points being awarded for good competition placings or wins and for double-clear rounds.
'Tsunami II currently has two points.
'Zara clearly has not thought through the adverse reaction she might receive for this horse's name.'
British Eventing confirmed a horse's name can be changed free, so long as it has not been registered at the start of a new year. Changing it later costs £75.
But one rider said: 'There is an old superstition among the horsey community that changing a horse's name will bring horse and rider bad luck.'
Zara has entered novice competitions at Great Witchingham in Norfolk and Somerley Park in Hampshire later this month.
Yesterday, charities Oxfam, Concern and UNICEF refused to comment on the horse's name.
Last month, Zara donated a Moschino dress she wore to a premiere to an online auction to raise money for the tsunami appeal.
Mar 7 2005 Daily Record By Judith Duffy
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Member:
Cpacer
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 14, 2005 - 4:27 pm:
I wanted to change my horses name but didn't cause of the bad luck thing--I'm glad since I would have thought that was why he spent the first 3-months lame!
All my animals have about 10 nicknames anyway...
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 6:14 am:
Dear Alicia,
How about Honestly Poetic(barn name Honey) or Mystically(Misty) or Magically(Magic) Poetic to add to your Poetic group of names?
Just a thought. By the way, I hope you received my private email.
Good luck!!!
WTG
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 7:46 am:
Here's another poetic name: Poetic Rhapsody.
That's about as creative as my analytical brain can get! ;)
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 11:08 am:
WTG,
I called your friend, and she answered, and it looks like my price range is an issue. I am going to call her back today (she was talking to me from the back of a horse!!!). She seems very nice.
All,
Well West Jett passed the vetting. He toes out, but he is totally sound even on flexion and circles, etc. The vet who checked him called me and told me that he couldn't sell him as a race horse as those folks like the legs totally straight, but he would buy him as a hunter or jumper any day. He is going to x ray the front ankles and hocks for me next week. He said he couldn't find a single "pimple". He really liked the horse and said he was great for the vetting, even though they did it in a snow storm!
So, here is a picture of him jumping.
My mom has suggested I add wine and champagne names to the list of potential barn names. What a great idea!
First off, the show name will be Poetic Tribute, just love that too much, and he looks so much like Guin. Plus the phrase actually means something, a poem in tribute to my boy.
So, for boys barn names, I had:
Kirin, Miller, Harper.
Wine names, my favorite kind is Red Zin, so maybe Raven for Ravenswood (my favorite).
Champagne is so classy, maybe Chandon, nah, that is not a name you can say with love and to chastise.
Help me out guys! You are all so creative.
Alicia
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Member:
Wgillmor
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 11:25 am:
My favorite wine name is Folie à deux. You could call him "Folie" with love. When chastising, just remember the "à deux" part of it.
Good luck with him.
Wiley
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 11:27 am:
He is gorgeous! I love the show name too.
It might not be wine or champagne but I like "Bailey" for Bailey's Irish Cream.
Ella
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 11:40 am:
Wiley,
I can't even pronounce that ;)
Ella,
Bailey is cute, but I think a bit too common. I want something that is different. I like Harper, but it doesnt' flow yet. Of course, Guinness was Guin Guin when he was good, or bud bud or Guin bud. I can't see myself saying Harp Harp, sounds silly.
Darn, this one is hard.
Watch him fail the x rays then I will have to start all over again!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 3:49 pm:
OK, I think I have found the barn name.
Pinot. What does everyone think? I will still accept other ideas, but it is cute, different, and it makes me laugh to think I may end up calling him PP for short ;)
Alicia
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 15, 2005 - 7:27 pm:
Alicia, OMG! West Jett is handsome! It's wonderful you're so close to having a new baby!
Poetic Tribute is a beautiful name. The initials (PT) made me think of 'Barnum'. OK, silly idea.
Your wine selection (Pinot) brought to mind Shiraz, Beaujolais, Syrah, Merlot, Chianti and Sangria.
Some Champagne houses: Castellane, Montebello, Bollinger, Perrier Jouet, GH Mumm, Duval-leroy, Ayala, Draper, Lemoine, (Charles) Lafitte, Moet & Chandon, Diligent Kid, and Venoge.
Lots of luck picking out the barn name.
D.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 9:42 am:
D.,
Thanks, I think he is amazing. If he didn't move or jump so well, I woudln't have even considered him. My gelding was a great jumper, but not half the mover this one is. I think this one won't have the scope Guinness did, but then he was kind of a freak of nature. Of course, Guin had more talent than we needed even for the 4 foots, so this one, even not quite as catty or talented, should still be able to do that height (not with me, I am too chicken!!!).
OK, I really like Draper as a name, what kind of Champagne is that? I myself prefer a toasty complex dry champagne, but I don't think I want that in a horse! I would think a powerful, sweet, and tasty one would be a good description of a horse. The other wines don't flow off the tounge. Can you imagine saying "Good sangria, good sangria"? ;)
I like two sylable names that can be shortened to one to be cute. The only problem with Pinot is that shortened it is P P !!!
Duval is another one that I like. I had thought of Chandon, but it also just doesn't flow too well. How do you pronounce the last one (Venoge)?
Thanks for the all the suggestions!!!
I thought Pinot was it, but my plan really is to say all the names I like to him the first time I see him, and see how each fits him and how he responds.
This is fun Some good for me as come out of Guin's death, though having him alive would be much better.......
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 10:38 am:
Dr.O,
I have a question for you now that I have resigned myself to buying a horse with a known defect. What all should I look out for with him? Splints, ring bone, anything else in particular? I can look up the symptoms. I want to make sure I keep my eyes open for any signs. IF it turns out jumping is too much for him, I will try to develop him into a dressage horse and sell him to someone who wants to do that when he is ready.
Also, I think I know the answer, but do you think I should immediately start him on joint lubricating supplements? I don't know if any hard research has been done yet regarding starting horses on them young.
I don't have a problem giving him one, I just don't want to do it if it will make anything worse.
Thanks,
Alicia
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 11:17 am:
Alicia, I just spent another minute admiring West Jett. Mmm, Mmm, Mmm!
Draper is English for Drap(p)ier. They're a French champagne house and a brief history can be found at (midway down the page):
https://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Archives/Show_Article/0,1275,2040,00.html
or at:
https://www.champagne-drappier.com/
but the latter is in French.
They make a variety of champagnes but the description of their Brut Rose is intriguing:
"Full-bodied and substantial in tone, with a deep copper color, ripe cherry and honey flavors." (I'd like a bottle of this one myself.)
Venoge is pronounced Veh-noge' (sounds like loge). The English version of their web site is:
https://www.champagnedevenoge.com/home.html
Did you know: the most commonly used grapes for making champagne are the Pinot Noir, Chardonnay and Pinot Meunier varieties?
So, if you decide on a champagne name, you'll be getting a little bit of Pinot!
This is getting fun!
D.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 12:04 pm:
D.,
This is getting VERY fun!!! That sounds like I should go buy some now!!! Actually, I think I will buy some of each of the types that make it to the final list, just to make sure they are worthy of him I am a big sparkling wine drinker, can't afford too much of the champagne, but get some when I can.
I still am not sure how to pronounce the Venoge. Is is ven as in pen, then noge as in rogue with a hard g?
Also, my mom preferred the name Duval. Can you give me some info on that type?
I am getting way too excited!!!!
Actually, both my trainers (I actually now use 4 trainers, haven't been able to find one that can consistantly come out to my place) have horses they want me to consider as well.
The one is a TB mare who is 6 and smaller, 15.2. Winn Alden is the trainer who wants me to try her. She is an R hunter judge and knows what the judges like. She likes the horse, but she isn't sure she woudln't be too small for me. I am going to go try her, but I am pretty sure I will tower over her.
Also, my dressage trainer, who I would like to lesson with every week, but who has only been out to see me about 3 times in the last 6 months has a Darwin daughter she bred who is going to be to small for her (she is taller and heavier than I am).
Hasn't been broke either, and my trainer is going to try her over a few jumps this weekend to see what she does. She is close and my trainer is totally honest so I wouldn't even have to pay for vetting.
I just wish West Jett didn't toe out and was a mare, he would be my dream horse. As it is, he has just those two things against him.
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 1:01 pm:
D.,
Is Drappier pronounced the same (dray per) or is it pronounced French (dray pee a or draw pee a)? My mom thinks it would look neater to have the french spelling, but I like the english pronounciation.
This is so cool, I really like your suggestions!
Alicia
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 1:20 pm:
How about "Dom Perignon". Could call him "Dom" for short.
This is the Champagne of champagnes, so to speak, and I do remember tasting a bottle or two with a good friend many years ago  .
I know you have asked Dr.O about some preventative medicine and he will answer in record time, but have you considered having your farrier have a look see and make some suggestions?
I am so happy for you .
Susan B.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 1:39 pm:
Susan,
I had considered that one too, but it is just too common (half joking, half not).
I showed photos to my farrier, and he said he has shod many horses like him or worse with no problems. He basically said straight legs are just an aesthetic thing and aren't that important.
He is coming again in January, and I will have him trim WJ then. Notice I didn't use a name yet, as I have not decided! WJ is his registered Dutch name. The names that year had to start with W. The mare in the photo above is also a W.
Alicia
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 1:42 pm:
Alicia, looks like Duval-Leroy has several wonderful champagnes but the one I like the description of (and would like to try for myself) is their Brut 1er Cru:
Color: Green gold, fine bubbles
Aroma: Dried fruit aromas, roasted biscuit aromas
Taste: Elegant and well-structured, balanced, supple, fresh and powerful
65-80% Chardonnay; 35-20% Pinot Noir
Venoge: V schwa (more like eh) - noge' (soft g more like zh) as in doge, loge, luge, etc. The 'N' goes with the 2nd syllable.
What a fine looking mare! What I know about the hunter world would fit on the head of a pin, but I like her looks!
Hope you'll post a picture of the other mare!
D.
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 1:53 pm:
Oops! Sorry I missed you question about Draper. The French word is correctly spelled drapier. The family name Drappier is a variant thereof. The pronunciation is: Drah' (like draw) - peeay (a blend of 2 sounds if that makes any sense).
D.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 2:08 pm:
D.,
The draw peeay makes perfect sense. The english pronounciation is just as it is spelled, right?
I LOVE the description above "Elegant and well-structured, balanced, supple, fresh and powerful". That is the PERFECT description of a horse, isn't it!
Hey, everyone, look at that!!!!!
That is for Duval, right? Is the val like hall or like value?
Woah, please write out the V name so a dunce can understand. Is it Ve (as it vet) noge as in lodge? If so, I get it. I like the sound of it too, but that taste description is perfect!
Here is the other mare, same sire, different mom.
As you can see from her name, she is a year old than the other two.
Alicia
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 2:17 pm:
I guess if we are into Champagnes', nothing like throwing a few Diamonds into the mix.
How about "Winston" as in "Harry Winston" ?  .}
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 2:55 pm:
Alicia, that fabulous description is for a Duval champagne. And yes, the val is pronounced like 'hall' (think of Robert Duval the actor).
Venoge: Ve (as in vet, phew, that one's out of the way) - noge (sounds like no + gzh).
Drapier/Drappier: English/French pronunciations are close. In French the 1st R is rolled and I don't believe there's an English equivalent. So, Drah' - peeay is about as close as it gets.
Wow! That's another beautiful mare! I wouldn't be able to sleep at night going over all the prospects in my mind!
Susan, you're funny! Harry Winston, indeed! (Only in my dreams!)
D.
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 4:37 pm:
Oh Alicia,
The mare, the one named "Val" is Gorgeous and take another close look at her.....(blinking eyes).
D.,
Your explanation of pronunciations are exemplary  . Nicely done! No doubt you put the "Spell Check" into a tizzy or should I say "Spell Chuck". You have warmed and amused my heart...he he he.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - 8:29 pm:
Guys,
Yes, they are all three very nice. However, note on West Jett the way his knees are totally even, and above the horizontal. Also his head is down so his knees are even with his cheeks, which is the ideal hunter jump. The absoulte best ones lift their knees higher than he does, but they also cost over 6 figures. He is also an incredible mover. See the vide on my trainer's web site. Floaty, daisy cutting, trot, rhythmic balanced canter, he is just amazing.
The other two are very nice too, that is why they are on my final list
Alicia
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 17, 2005 - 9:35 am:
I think your first sign of problems is unusual swellings in and around the front ankles Alicia. The ligaments of these areas get a loft of stress and are quick to show it. Of course many hard working horses develop innocuous windpuffs and stocking up of several varieties but that is where I would first expect to see signs of stress.
DrO
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Monday, Dec 19, 2005 - 12:32 am:
Dear Alicia,
I guess the Germans got wise to the USA because you are right, the prices for the horses as well as shipping has gone up. I had no idea. I can understand the shipping, as gas prices are high everywhere. I would think the pricing for the horses would stay relatively the same because there are thousands of horses for sale over there.
BTW congratulations on WJ passing the vet check. I wish you continued success on the xrays.
Best Wishes,
WTG
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Monday, Dec 19, 2005 - 10:11 am:
Dr. O.,
So the ligaments first before the joints? I don't think boots do anything to support, but should I use them in case he does hit himself until I am sure he won't?
Also, should I put him on joint supplements? IS there anything else supplement or oinment or exercise wise that I could do to help?
I have no problem keeping an eye on his ankles. I do that with all my horses. I feel for heat in the feet and legs every time I groom.
WTG,
Yeah, I got deflated price wise real quick!
Oh, here is a photo of his head. Bad quality, she got it off the video, but at least it is a still.
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Monday, Dec 19, 2005 - 6:15 pm:
Dear Alicia,
I spoke to Beth today. She mentioned when she had spoken to you she did not have any horses available. The owner of her barn just told her today that she wants to sell her big bay horse. I do not know anything about the horse. But knowing the ranch owner it's a pretty fancy horse. She is asking only $12K but may go down as she wants to buy another horse right now.
I am going to visit Beth next week. If you are still in the market for a horse. I will have a look at the horse for you, if you want.
Beth told me to tell you to call if you want to and she will send you a video and or some photos.
Any news on the xrays for WJ?
WTG
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 20, 2005 - 9:01 am:
The pros and cons of administering oral joint supplements to sound horses is discussed in the article on them, Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » The Joint Protective Treatments and I would not use boots without a clear indication for them.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 20, 2005 - 9:49 am:
Dr O,
Thanks, I will read the article. I also don't like to use boots. What about polo wraps? I know they don't offer joint support, but for protection of the skin from the opposite hoof?
WTG,
I think he isn't getting x rayed until tomorrow, so no news as of yet.
I am always open for looking at other horses. I will give her a call today in the afternoon. I plan on keeping my contacts I have made in this search even if I buy WJ as I want to keep my options open in case he doesn't hold up to intense jumping.
Thanks
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 2:30 am:
Dear Alicia,
Did I read somewhere along this post you do not like to have your horse wear protective boots while jumping?
I have never heard of that. At our barn all of us use only the best protective boot wear for all of our horses legs front and back.
It is so important. Especially for younger prospects who are just learning to jump.
So many times they may misjudge a distance and clip themselves. Or they may clip the fence. I cannot express to you how much a horse will benefit from protective boots.
Polo wraps can produce many tendon problems as they do not allow as much circulation as proper protective boots.
The only exception is in the show arena. In the divisions judged on the horse alone no boots are allowed. In the equitation classes you will see all the fanciest boots made.
If I read this wrong please disregard this message as I know you are an accomplished rider.
Best Wishes and Happy Holidays!
WTG
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 9:48 am:
Same advice for polos Alicia.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 10:05 am:
Dr O,
Thanks, I won't use any.
WTG,
I never have used boots on any of my horses in the 12 years I have been riding, and the worst that happened was a small cut on the conorary band of my current mare when she was being lazy.
I am not allowed to use boots in the hunter divisions I show in either. None, not just the conformation ones.
So, no, I have not found them necessary, which is why I was asking Dr O if he thought I woudl be wrong in not using them on this horse with his special conformation.
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 11:36 pm:
Dear Alicia,
Wow, how lucky you have been not to have incurred any major injuries. My horse has near perfect conformation and the one time in 6 yrs I turned him out with out bell boots and splint boots he clipped himself on the coronet band so badly he needed stitches. I felt sooo guilty. The vet bill wasn't any fun either.
As I stated in my earlier post we too are not allowed to use boots in the conformation divisions or any class which is judged solely on the horse.
Do you ever show equitation over fences?
I do know of some people back east who don't use boots. I guess being the paranoid freak I am I always error on the side of caution.
There are so many different schools of thought out there. It is so interesting to be able to learn about them. I understand and respect your opinion.
I guess it has been hammered into my head for so many years(boots,boots,boots)I thought that's just how it was everywhere.
Happy Holidays!
WTG
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 22, 2005 - 8:10 am:
We always put splint boots on. Just the cheap little neoprene ones. I put them snug but not tight. I'd rather have a boot than need a stitch or a splint from a wrong step.
Ella
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 22, 2005 - 9:58 am:
WTG and Ella,
I never use boots. I think maybe that is why my horses don't injure themselves as much as others, because they are more careful? Not sure. I have owned 5 different horses, all of them were shown and jumped and none of them ever got more than a scratch while being ridden. I did boot one while lunging, but other than that, never. Never in turn out either.
WTG, do you turn out every day and for 8 hours or more? If I only turned out for a few hours a day, I might be more prone to try to protect from scratches as those horses seem to be more prone to act up while out.
I don't think it is luck, but I never have used them and unless WJ proves himself to interfere on his own or while being trained, I won't use them on him either.
I think this has gone on to be a different topic......
I talked to Nancy, WJ's owner today via e mail. The vet is due to come out this weekend.
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 3:48 am:
Dear Alicia,
My horse has lived in a 24X48 corral for the last two years. Since that time he really doesn't need turnouts. Additionally since he lost his eye this June I cannot turn him out alone as it upsets him if he cannot see any other horses. He will run around crazy and fall down on the blind side. He only had to do this once before I decided no more turnouts in the big arena.
He gets turned out with his 28+ yr old girlfriend everyday after we have ridden or jumped for about an hour, sometimes longer. He is always calm with her. They do enjoy their turnout time together even though they live right next door to each other.
I am so sorry to have changed the subject. It just seemed we were bouncing around from the toeing out, the names, and the the boot question came up. I am very interested in how other people care for their horses.
It is obviously not a bad thing to jump without protective boots. As the AA show circuit doesn't allow the most of the Hunter divisions to do so.
Although I personally have never ever seen any jumpers without boots in the show ring. Have you?
I think with the Hunters it is okay not to wear boots because they are not going for speed. They are competing for the most graceful lopey and consistant round.
Maybe you are right about horses jumping without boots being more careful. I had not thought about that before. Very interesting.
How is WJ coming along? He is really cute. Have you been able to see him in person and or briefly ride? As I realize he is young. Is he broke?
Best Wishes and Happy Holidays!
WTG
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New Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 3:18 pm:
Just to weigh in this interesting variety of topics: Hope all goes well with vet check on WJ Alicia. He is lovely, and I love the jump on him. On names, I am a Beaujelais (sp?) fan with the nickname "Beau" or "BJ". (Pinot concerns me because PP could be "pee-pee" (you know?)). The show name is gorgeous and a fitting tribute. On boots, there is no indication that Alex interferes but he does overreach and has successfully pulled a front shoe off with the back foot on lunge, on turnout and under saddle. So he wears the Davis bell boots in front, large, so the backs DrOp down practically to the ground. Also, I jump with Escadon's in front and have been interested to note scrapes on the insides of both boots, even though he is not hitting fences (although he bucks sometimes). I too agree with WTG on being conservative about boots. A horse I sold years ago was a very successful preliminary jumper and three-day horse until he clipped his suspensory while turned out. No amount of surgery could bring him back to jumping form. Of course, boots may not have helped as he clipped himself pretty high. Alex and I will only be showing Hunters and Eq and I plan to have bell boots and cannon boots on him until we are ready to go into the show ring. I'm interested if anyone has anymore comments on the "downside" of boot wearing.
Happy Holidays All!
Suzanne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 8:09 pm:
WTG and Suzanne,
We can add boot wearing if you guys want, doesn't bother me I just know that on the chronicle, they make you open a new thread so I thought we could do that.
In regards to being safer than sorry, I guess that makes sense, but then I have never had a problem so I will continue not to use them. If my horse had studs in his/her shoes I would use them, but a smooth shoe I would think should be safe. What about when the horse lays down, wouldn't they cut them selves then?
Just seems to be something that is more for the owner's feel good than for the horse.
WTG,
He should have been x rayed today, I should get results next week. One of my hunter trainers saw him for the first time today and said for that look and jump, she would excuse less than perfect x rays. I guess I will make up my mind when I see what there is to see.
No, he is not broke, no, I have not met him. I had to compromise on meeting him for money. I am glad he isn't broke, I do plan on gently starting him when he turns 3 this spring.
Suzanne,
If he scrapes the inside, I can't imagine it is caused by jumping.
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 27, 2005 - 9:26 am:
OK, got the x rays, totally clean. The vet left a message Christmas eve to let me know. He said he would send the x rays to my vet for their interpretation. I am going to have him do that, as that way we will also have a baseline.
I made an offer, and she counter offered, and I accepted that, so it looks like all I have to do now is get him a ride!
Yay
Alicia
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 27, 2005 - 9:56 am:
Alicia,
Congratulations on the finalization of the buy! What a great Christmas gift to get clean films.
I am sure you will find your new boy a ride home soon. I can feel the excitement coming through in your post. That's the best Tribute of all. I know that when WJ steps out of the trailer for the first time there will be instant love.....he coulnd't be luckier than to find such a great new Mom.
Blessings to you both for the New Year.
v/r
Corinne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 27, 2005 - 10:07 am:
Corrine,
Thanks! I hope he feels lucky to have me too!
His new barn name is going to be Duval, unless I look at him and something else hits me.
Alicia
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 28, 2005 - 2:04 pm:
Congratulations! What a great way to start the New Year. I hope you and "Duval" have a wonderful journey together!
Fran
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 28, 2005 - 2:24 pm:
Fran,
Thanks!!!
I just wish the journey could begin! I can't for the life of me find any shippers. Anyone know of any pros who do this route (Canada to East Coast)?
Alicia
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Member:
Lilly
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 28, 2005 - 2:43 pm:
Alicia,
Have you tried to find a shipper on a website like this one: www.horses-etc.com/Horse_Transportaion.shtml ? I have had success working with Clay Rawls and All Ways Horsing About. There are other transportation websites like this one with many more shippers listed.
Ann
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 28, 2005 - 2:54 pm:
I have requests listed on about 4 sites, but until now haven't contacted shippers direct. Will do so now.
Thanks!
Alicia
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Member:
Lilly
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 28, 2005 - 2:56 pm:
Hi Alicia,
I just found another website for you. There is a list of shippers at: www.infohorse.com/html/displayaddirectory.asp
The company Brook Ledge, Inc (800-523-8143) makes trips to Canada. They are listed at this website.
Ann
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 28, 2005 - 3:04 pm:
Ann,
Thanks, will look there
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 1, 2006 - 5:19 am:
Dear Dr.O,
Should this be under a different discussion?
Dear Suzanne,
The boots I use are also EskaDrOns made in Germany by Luger Beerbaum. The front splint boots sometimes get scratched up after jumping, but not on a regular basis.
As you can see by the photo posted under my profile(just click on my name in any of the posts on the board and scroll down)my horse has pretty good jumping form. However all of the boots do get scratched at some point.
Every time a horse jumps occasionally they don't leave the ground as balanced as we would like. I think that is when they may be clipping themselves.
My horse uses his hind end very well and is so athletic, yet the rear hind(half boots-also sheepskin EskaDrOns) get scratched up as well.
I do not think boots can prevent a suspensory injury but can avoid unnecessary surface wounds. I was taught boots kept horses legs clean for conformation classes.
I have also seen many injuries to young horses who are just learning to jump. For example many have ripped off shoes, needed stitches around the coronary, pasterns front, cannon bone areas in both front and hind.
Injuries and vet bills that can be avoided I am all for, considering how many times we have already seen the vet and two hospitals this year.
I really cannot complain as my horse was so good to me for the first 5 years, meaning only having to see the vet for vaccinations and maybe 2 emergencies in 5 years.
I do believe boots can create confidence for both horse and rider. Even if I am not jumping my horse is fully booted.
Anyway to each his own. Sorry for the late post I was out of town.
Alicia,
Oh my God, Congratulations on your purchase!!! What a fantastic Christmas present. I am soo happy for you especially with clean xrays. Good luck to you both. Please keep us posted on Duval.
Happy New Year everyone!!!
WTG
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 1, 2006 - 10:11 am:
No this is fine WTG.
DrO
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New Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 1, 2006 - 12:42 pm:
Thanks WTG. I won't worry about him interfering. It wasn't an issue in the vet check. I had a trainer with me when I tried him both times and she didn't notice anything. When things dry out (I'm in NorCal) and we start jumping again, I hope to get some video of him jumping. As long as no one sees a down side to using boots, I'll keep them on.
Congratulations Alicia! Did you find a transport?
Happy New Year everyone.
Suzanne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Monday, Jan 2, 2006 - 1:25 pm:
Suzanne and WTG,
Note above, Dr. O. said "and I would not use boots without a clear indication for them." He also said " Same advice for polos" So, Dr. O. doesn't think I should use them unless he shows signs of interfering, so my mind has not been changed in regards to boots.
Suzanne,
Found several rides. I may get him as soon as next weekend, yay!!! I did find something that puts off my riding plans for a few months. His birthday is June 8, 2003, not March. He is 15.3 right now, but the breeder thinks he won't end up over 16.1 as dad was 16.1 and mom was 16. However, that said, this breeding has produced larger horses, so 16.2 is not impossible.
Hope everyone had a great New Year's holiday!
Alicia
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New Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Monday, Jan 2, 2006 - 1:47 pm:
Alicia,
Not trying to change any minds, just exploring pros and cons. Obviously what you are doing works for you. I have just gotten back into riding after twenty years off. So much has changed! This site really helps shorten the learning curve. Thanks for all the input.
Glad you have transport for your horse and that you will be united soon. Enjoy and Happy New Year.
Suzanne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 3, 2006 - 2:40 pm:
Suzanne,
Thanks Looks like he is leaving Canada the 9th. I am going to be on pins and needles the whole time!
Sorry about my choice of words, I was just trying to emphasize that even with this conversation pro boots, my mind is still as it was. Of course, if he starts to interfere, all those old boots I bought in the past before I made the decision not to use boots will be brought back out!
Oh, one more interesting bit. I read that using hind boots causes horses to put more weight on the front which causes excess wear on the joints. I think I read that in the Dutch Warmblood magazine I get monthly.
Found that interesting. Maybe I am remembering it wrong, but that is what my mind is telling me I read.
Alicia
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New Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 3, 2006 - 10:14 pm:
Alicia,
I hate it when they are in transit. My Hanoverian broodmare had to come from Vermont to California (funny since she was bred in CA about 20 miles away from where I keep my horses now and in 11 years had found her way to the East Coast). They were stopping every night and then the truck broke down and they got held over two days somewhere mid-country. But they called me every day and kept me posted. Hopefully your shipper will do the same. D'Lady made it safe and sound and is now in foal for a July baby.
Interesting about the back boots. I bought them but don't use them. I put them on my TB mare once and she lifted her legs so high like they were shipping boots or something. They seemed to bother her so I just leave them off both horses. The back ones (EskaDrOns) are so small, they seem to really be for interfering only. I still wonder why the front boots are open in the front except for the Velcro wrap, since it seems common for horses to hit the front of the fetlock or cannon (if they hit higher than the hoof).
I hope you will send pictures when your new boy arrives. I'm sure we are all anxious to see you united with him.
Suzanne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 4, 2006 - 10:24 am:
I plan on taking photos before he gets muddy, as he has never had a bath and I don't intend to teach him in this kind of weather. I assume the breeder will give him a clean up before she puts him on the trailer!
Alicia
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Member:
Angel77
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 5, 2006 - 8:05 am:
Dear Alicia,
I was not attempting to change your mind or any one elses for that matter. I was just wondering how many other people were using or not using boots.
Simply researching the amount of people who boot their horses. I hope you understand I agree with both points.
There is a little difference between hunters and jumpers. I ride jumpers. They can be crazy.
For conformation hunters the horses do not wear boots. It really is beautiful to see horses jump around clean and slow.
When I am going for speed, boots will always be in need.
When do we get to see photos of Duval? I cannot wait to hear all about him.
Suzanne,
The front boots are open in front I think because that is the strongest part of their leg(canon bone?). The front legs are protected around the more tender, injury prone areas.
On the back boots because they are Velcro it can be easy to put them on too tight. Every horse is different as we all know.
There are so many different types of boots for all disciplines. Everyone has a unique style.
However in the show ring on the West Coast for Equitation... only Edgewood, or custom made bridle & martingale attire are recognized.
Which coast are you on?
Happy New Year!
WTG
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 5, 2006 - 9:07 am:
I was told once upon a time that open front boots are designed to protect the tendons of the front legs from being hit by hind legs. The front is left open intentionally so the horse can feel the "sting" of the jump if he hits it and learns to be a more careful jumper.
I don't use boots myself unless longing, but just wanted to pass on what I heard from a rated hunter/jumper trainer years ago who was a master of every piece of equipment known to exist in the market.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 5, 2006 - 9:56 am:
WTG,
As long as they don't hurt a horse, I see no reason not to use them. I just don't see a reason to use them either (emphasis on the to) in what I do.
I can't wait to see him in person! The breeder practiced loading him for the first time yesterday and he went on and off like a pro. She said he was a little worried about backing off the step down backwards, but did it anyway.
As of now, the plan is for him to leave the 9th. Not sure of when he will arrive, but I am hoping before the end of the week!
Alicia
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Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 5, 2006 - 12:40 pm:
Thanks WTG and Debbie,
That all makes sense. You can see the front boots are really protecting the fetlock and back tendon with that hard shell.
WTG, I guess I am out of luck. I'm on the West Coast and don't have custom bridle and martingale or Edgewood, just whatever fairly good stuff I have found on sale. I won't be showing rated for a while though, so maybe it won't matter. The trends are funny. My trainer told me green jackets are out. Too bad, I think green is the prettiest thing on the chestnuts. Fortunately, Alex is grey so we will be showing in blue. Perhaps we should start a string on show styles, both horse and human attire. I bet it would be entertaining as well as informative.
Alicia, sounds like your boy has a very good mind and willing attitude to go along with all of his athletic ability. I'm told Alex won't back out. I fortunately have a warmblood slant load so I haven't had to try it yet. The few times I've moved him have not been a good time for a training session so we haven't worked on it yet. Seems kind of stupid for a race horse not to back out, but maybe he had an incident. One never knows.
Best wishes for the count down. It won't be long before you have your new boy in the barn.
Suzanne
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Monday, Jan 23, 2006 - 7:25 pm:
Hi Alicia,
I was hoping to hear about your boy's happy arrival... did he come?! Is everything OK? Let the rest of us know - I haven't had a new horse in three years and wanted to have a vicarious experience to stave off doing anything rash!
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 - 12:20 pm:
Stacy,
As far as I know, we are on for the 1st or 2nd of February. I am going to e mail the shipper today to make sure that is still the plan.
10 days left!!!!
Alicia
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New Member:
Lovemytb
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 - 5:20 pm:
Hello everyone, I'm a new member with a 2.5 year old gelding that also toes out and I have a question for the vet. In the prepurchase exam my vet said that his legs rotate outward, one from the shoulder and the other from the carpus. He will need corrective shoeing to an extent and that this fault may or may not become a problem eventually. I'm wondering what would be the first indication of a problem and is there anything preventive I can do to avoid lameness and injury? The vet also says he has alot of growing and maturing to do but does not believe he will straighten though so many people tell me that he may. I'm hoping to start him in the late summer and train him for dressage, possibly low level eventing. I have pictures and a video of sorts but I guess the images were to big to upload.
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New Member:
Lovemytb
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 - 5:23 pm:
Alicia,
Your boy is gorgeous and I love his show name. My new boy is a doll - I can't wait to start training him. He'll be three on March 10th. Isn't that close to your guys bday?
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 - 5:38 pm:
Lisa,
Turns out his birthday is actually June 8. I wish it was March! I was all ready to start him in March, but now I am going to have to wait.
By the way, Dr. O. told me just to keep an eye on him for any swellings. I don't remember getting any specific lamenesses mentioned that correspond to this condition.
Alicia
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New Member:
Lovemytb
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 - 10:54 pm:
Dr O, Can I email you videos of my horse? Once the vet cleared him I saw no reason for xrays (neither did she) but now I'm nervous about his potential for injury/lameness. He's so young. His toeing out is unlike Alicia's horse's so I thought there maybe something else I may need to know about this fault.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 25, 2006 - 7:37 am:
For conformation, better would be taking some still photos and posting them in a new discussion along with the description you give above. Take them from squarely both in front and the side, with the light coming from behind you. Include some close ups of the lower legs from the mid cannon down and be sure the horse is standing square.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Jan 27, 2006 - 9:57 am:
ARRGGGHHHHH, I got a call from West Jett's breeder yesterday telling me he came in lame! She thinks it is an abscess as it was sudden and he has no swellings or heat on his legs. It is his left hind. She wanted to wait till Monday to have the vet out and I insisted on having them come out today. I sent her your article, Dr. O. and told her I want it pared out, not let to burst on its own, which is apparantly what she normally does. So, he is not coming next week, which was the plan.
D**M!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Jan 27, 2006 - 3:44 pm:
So sorry to hear this Alicia...I can only imagine how frustrated & disappointed you are. You must be jumping out of your skin waiting for him to come to home to you.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that it is indeed only an abscess & that it heals up quickly so he can head your way soon!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 28, 2006 - 9:44 am:
I agree with you Alicia, there is no reason the horse should be painful all weekend with an abscess. I might let one go till next day but not all weekend.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Monday, Jan 30, 2006 - 12:18 pm:
Dr. O.,
The breeder, on my insistence, got a vet out Friday, the day after he came in lame, and they pared away some of his sole and then poulticed the foot. The next day, he was totally sound. They didn't get any puss when they pared, so she is assuming the abscess drained while the poultice was on. He has been better now for two days. I have a "date" for him to leave Canada the 7th.
I am not getting my hopes up, I don't want to jinx it again!
Alicia
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 9:10 am:
HE IS ON HIS WAY!!!!!!
He should be getting to his new home Wednesday evening or Thursday AM. I am so excited!!!
Pictures will be taken as soon as I can!
Alicia
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Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 12:24 pm:
Congratulations. Can' wait to see the pics!
Suzanne
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 7:17 am:
Alicia, that's so exciting! Can't wait to see more pictures! I'll be watching for a post from you announcing his arrival.
D.
P.S.--I'm going out today to pick up a bottle of Champagne to celebrate your new guy's arrival. I'll be looking for a bottle of Duval-leroy!
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 7:50 am:
When he gets there give him a big fat kiss on the nose from all of us here!
Ella
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 9:07 am:
Yeah! Can't wait to see pix of him when he arrives.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 10:30 am:
OK, I got a photo of him right before he got on the trailer Sunday night from his breeder. Here it is.
You can see he is currently in a growth spurt, I hope he doesn't get too much taller, I really like 16.1. He was 15.3 before this growth spurt, but as you can see, it is just his butt that is taller right now ;)
I was told by the hauler that he is traveling well and drinking fine. They are going straight south to Kentucky and then East to me. He is supposed to be here between Wednesday eve and Thursday AM.
YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYY!!!!
I am still reminded of Guin at this time, but I feel nothing but good thoughts when I think of him in regards to this guy.
Oh, D., I have bought three bottles of the Duval-Leroy since I named him that (by the way, if it doesn't suit him when I meet him, I won't be calling him that, but he does look like one from the photo). I had one just to test it, one to celebrate the Steeler's win, and will open the last the day he arrives Good stuff!
Alicia
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 11:07 am:
Oh what fun, a new horse!!!
He deserves a bottle of Guinness Stout, don't you think? lol- maybe two- afterall he is the one making the long trip to his new home.
Hope he is all you dream he will be.
Chris
Wish there was a button to click, that would take you to the bottom of a post, this one is getting kinda long.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 11:24 am:
Chris,
Duval is replacing Guinness, maybe drinking one would be good symbalism.
Alicia
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 12:14 pm:
Alicia, yes I knew that, thus the reason for suggesting, and also have heard that horses really like it too. I know how hard it was for you losing Guiness, bet he is smiling up in heaven and happy that you are happy once again.
Cheers- wish I liked Guiness (just a little too stout for my liking) I'd have one for both horses. I will partake in a Modelo Negra (yummy)on your behalf instead.
Best wishes,
Chris
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 12:35 pm:
Chris,
I have tried it on every horse I have owned since I went on a riding vacation in Ireland. None of mine have liked it, though I REALLY wanted Guinness to like it!
I do have a few six packs at home right now, I will try it on the new guy.
Are you supposed to pour it over grain or add it to water, or just give plain?
Is Modelo Negra that Mexican beer? I like that too. I was thinking a Molson would be good for me to use as West Jett is Canadian ;)
Alicia
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 4:21 pm:
Alicia, not real sure now that you asked- I just assumed one would pour it in a bucket, by itself.
I have heard of a hunter barn back east that gives all the horses a pint of Guiness every evening- keeps em happy they say.
Yes Modelo is Mexican beer, and my favorite, I drink the Especial in the summer the Negra in the winter since it is a dark ale.
Molson is good too and it may be more appropriate for Duval being he is Canadian
I bet you feel like a kid waiting on Christmas, I am getting excited too, it is so much fun getting a new horse. Cant wait to hear all about him.
Chris
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 10:35 am:
Alicia, he's gorgeous! Be sure to keep us posted!!
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 10:43 am:
Chris,
I think I will get some Modelo, I am having a tasteing party (wine and beer) this Saturday and was going to use Corona, but Modelo is much better!
Yeah,I never did figure out how to feed it, anyone else here know? Dr. O., should I make a new post?
He is in Missouri today and should be here Friday. They are picking up and DrOpping off other horses. The guy takes them off every few hours to walk around. Apparently, Duval is a great trailerer and is doing very well.
He has so much to learn, but from what I have heard of all the pro horse folks who have delt with him, he should be easy to train.
I just look at that photo and get teary eyed, he is such a beauty.
Alicia
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 11:03 am:
Alicia, I agree Modelo is much better, only buy Corona when I cant get Modelo. Don't forget the limes!
I am disappointed to hear it will be Fri. instead of today, but sounds like your hauler is doing it 'better safe than sorry', which of course is a good thing.
Tears of joy- awesome- you deserve that after all you have been thru.
Chris
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 11:19 am:
Yeah, I agree safe is better than fast, plus tomorrow would have been a bad day for me as I have to wait for furniture to be delivered, then I have a doctor's appointment, so I probably wouldn't have been able to be there when he arrived. Today was a pipe dream I see now!
Yeah, I am so happy, and the picture of Guinness I am looking at on my desk here at work looks happy too (odd, I know, but I never saw that in that photo before!).
Alicia
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 - 8:44 am:
I too am a big fan of Modelo Negra but some believe it is only Guinness that has that magic for horses. Of course my Bud friends would disagree.
I am sure pouring it on the food will work for many but I have seen some horses that take it from an offered bottle, just pour a little in ever so often if they like it. I had a canned Guinness (with the funny rattle on the inside) this weekend and have to say, it will never replace the bottle or tap.
DrO
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 - 10:50 am:
Dr. O.,
I totally agree with you about the best way to store Guinness. It is the absolute best in Ireland in a pub, of course ;)
I will try it in my hand or a small bucket first. If he doesn't like it, I can always toast to him myself!
Alicia
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Friday, Feb 17, 2006 - 1:02 am:
Alicia,
Congratulations...WJ should be there just about now. Don't forget to send arrival announcements with his show and barn names for our memoirs....along with a good head shot...you know...because you are a new mom again.
So excited for you!
Saying a little prayer for your future lives together. God Bless,
Corinne
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Feb 17, 2006 - 8:55 am:
All,
Well, the guy who owns the service called and left my mom a message last night saying they (my horse and the guy driving) were at the Kentucky West Virginia border at 11PM Eastern. I guess he was going to stop and sleep sometime and I assume they will be here sometime soon. I am supposed to expect a call between 9 and 11 this AM to set up a DrOp time. I am, however, in a telecon and my phone is in use. This is driving me crazy!
Alicia
Corinne, thanks for the blessing
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Friday, Feb 17, 2006 - 9:23 am:
Good luck! Hope it all works out ..
Lilo
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Feb 17, 2006 - 9:25 am:
He called, between 2 and 4 this afternoon!!! I can't concentrate at ALL!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Feb 17, 2006 - 4:04 pm:
Alicia...It's 4:03 EST...is he there? Is he there?!?!?!
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 1:14 am:
I know it is late. Had to post.
West Jett came around 4 today. When I first saw him, I wasn't thrilled, but he grew on me quickly. He took everything in stride. He went into his first indoor and became comfortable in a few minutes. He adjusted to concrete and the items in the aisles in a few seconds. When he is scared, he just stops and
stares. No running or pulling back. I went into his stall and he stood stock still as I groomed him. I think this horse is going to do well for me.
Watching him trot is breathtaking. Best moving horse I have ever owned.
Can't wait for him to shed out, he is a mule right now!!
Huge legs, ponyish head right now, I just love him. Here are some photos.
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 9:27 am:
Congratulations! To me he looks good - you should see my furry beasts!
Lilo
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 9:40 am:
WJ is beautiful! After a long journey I don't look that pretty either! He will grow into his legs. Congrats once again.
Please keep the pics coming.
Take care,
Corinne
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 10:03 am:
Alicia, I can see thru the hair and dirt. I think he is beautiful!!
Which beer did you offer him?
Congrats- may the two of you have many happy moments together!!
Chris
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 10:43 am:
Congratulations, Alicia!
He sounds like a level-headed guy . . .
I'm sure he will surprise you quite regularly with his unique personality and will endear himself to you . . . (Up till now, your relationship has been kinda like an online/long-distance courtship!) Enjoy!
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Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 10:58 am:
Look at that lovely topline. You are going to have a blast. Congrats!
Suzanne
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 11:10 am:
Congrats! He looks great and sounds like he's got the temperament to match.
Have fun!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 11:24 am:
Congratulations Alicia, he is gorgeous! If I may, I'd like to second Chris's wish of you having many happy years with your new horse!
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 12:04 pm:
Alicia, West Jett is so handsome, even with the dirt and fuzz! Tonight it's Duval-Leroy and a cheese souffle to celebrate! Wishing you many, many years together.
D.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 5:47 pm:
Thanks all! By the way, I hate to say this, but Duval isn't going to stick. It is too snooty for him. He is such an easy going laid back guy. I need more name suggestions, again beer, wine or champagne related.
I can't wait till he sheds out, it is kind of hard to see how he will look this fuzzy. I have always clipped my horses (started clipping Guin as a yearling) so I am not used to this, but I know he needed it in those cold temps up there in Canada.
Alicia
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 6:14 pm:
Barley? LOL
I have friends who named all their incoming polo horses after liquers and wines:
Molino, Chambord, Midori, Dubonnet, Amaretto, etc.
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 6:46 pm:
Porter?
Off theme but somewhat relevant: Zephyr (west wind or gentle breeze).
D.
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 9:22 pm:
Why this came to mind, haven't a clue- Gilligan- Gill for short-
Chris
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Member:
Sureed
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 18, 2006 - 11:01 pm:
I'm still pushing Beaujolais or Gamay Beaujolais, with "Beau" [French, from beau, bel, handsome, from Latin bellus.] for short.
Suzanne
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 10:55 am:
Congrats!!!
O.K., forgive me but here is a weird name suggestion. There is a beer called Otter Creek - call him Otter for short. To me he looks like an Otter - all dark and shiny. I know he looks fuzzy to you but you should see my Maine snow ponys! If you dig you might see a horse under all the hair!
Ella
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 4:52 pm:
Hmmm. the best laid-back beer I know is Rolling Rock. Multiple options for nicknames there. I am so happy for you - he looks just fine to me - really balanced for his age. Congrats, congrats, congrats... Stacy
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 - 11:27 am:
He is just lovely! Congragulations...to both of you! I'll be looking forward to pictures of you both sailing over jumps and winning big in the show ring (in a couple of years.)
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 - 1:07 pm:
Thanks all for the congrats and the name suggestions.
Stacy, I think Rocky (for Rolling Rock) is at the top of my list right now.
I was thinking Asti, because he is so sweet and uncomplicated, but I HATE Asti Supmanti, so I am leaning against that.
Holly, I tend to lean towards two sylable names for barn names, it is just easier. Even Guinness turned into Guin most of the time.
Those names are nice and different though, which is something I want. I had thought of Cooper, which is a beer, but we already had a Cooper at our barn a while ago, so that won't go.
I like Harper (for Harp) still too.
I need to get the list and look at him and say them and see which one fits.
This is harder than I thought it would be!
D.,
Porter might fit, I will try that one on. Zephyr is a bit too snooty (not saying you are, just the snooty names don't fit him).
Chris,
Gilligan is a bit TOO silly ;)
Suzanne,
Still too snooty for him. He needs a light and sweet name. However, Beau might do......
Ella,
No need for forgiveness Otter just doesnt' do it for me, though you are right, his coat mimicks one to a T.
Sara,
Yeah, at LEAST a couple of years! He looks so young right now. He is going to be pretty big, I think. The breeder estimated 16.1, but he is already close to 16 right now at the withers, his withers are pretty non existant also and he is butt high. I am going to try some future height estimates tonight. His head looks small compared to his body (short nose) but he fits a horse sized halter pretty snugly. He is on the second to last hole in the nose band and head stall!
That, by the way, is my least favorite part of him, his head. It is so coarse! His nose is short too. I am used to long narrow heads like Guin and Lilly. I hope when the hair goes away and as he matures, it will suit him more, but right now he really looks like an overgrown pony. When you get close to him, it is apparent he really IS a warmblood, HUGE cannons. They are also nice and short, which is a big plus. I imagine the wither will get higher, as it is part of the last part of the body to finish growing. It is pretty short right now. Funny thing is, his trot and jump are amazing, and folks usually say a longer shoulder and wither make for better jumpers. I guess confomration is not an exact science! Guinness had a HUGE wither, and his worst gair was the trot, of course, he did have a nice jump, but not as nice as this guy.
Alicia
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Friday, Mar 23, 2007 - 11:18 am:
I have an update on my boy. His barn name is Harper, and it fits him well. He has been through two sets of pro trainers, one to work on ground work and putting a work ethic in place, and one to teach him aids and get him working under saddle.
He is a wonderful boy, and I am very glad I chose him. We have had a time of it, as his supposed abscess turned out to be a coffin bone crack. He is just out of his special hind shoe and we are just putting him into real work now.
I actually had my first group lesson on him last night. My trainer set up a course for the other girls to ride, and when it came my turn, he put the jumps down to x's. Note, he had only ever jumped over fences in a chute on his own, and one time with a rider on his back. We went up to the first x, and he just went over like a pro, besides his weaving back and forth, but he does that on the flat, so I didn't expect him to straighted up like magic for the jumps! We ended up doing a course of three jumps in a row, all trotted. He even got up to a foot high verticle. He was so nonchallant about the whole thing. I even mistakenly asked him for a canter on landing over a fence in the middle of the arena, then asked him to change directions, which resulted in a smooth easy flying change! This horse is so easy.
My biggest problem now is going to be not pushing him too hard, finding a saddle to fit (his wither is just now beginning to sprout), and finding enough money to send him to culpeper with my trainer in the summer!
Alicia
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Member:
ngossage
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 - 8:38 pm:
Hi, Alicia. Glad to hear things are working out so well with your boy! I know what you mean about finding the money to go to Culpeper. I'll probably never make it there because of that. I'll be sticking with the local series in Middleburg & The Plains. Hoping to show my boy over fences for the first time this summer. Wishing you and Harper all the best,
Nicole
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 - 9:18 pm:
Pictures you big tease!!!LOL!! Can't wait to see him all grown up. It always restores my faith in the sweat-spending pedigree/conformation research to see the fully functioning finished product. I read back through the post - can't believe how time has flown! Raising a glass of my own to your future as we speak. Best Wishes, Stacy
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 11:02 am:
Stacy,
I took a short video of him Friday, and intend on putting it on my computer then posting it on Utube. I will notify the list when it is there. It is about 5 minutes of us walking trotting, and cantering. By the way, his left lead is still tricky as his hind foot was sore for so long. He is unbalanced to the left. I am going to work on that in the next few months along with general transitions and maintaing the forward.
Nicole, I am actually very close to the equestrian center in PG county, but I am not going to show there until the trial for Guinness is over, in December. I think it would be in bad taste to go there until then. So, we will probably stick to the Merrymount's, and the shows in upper Maryland. I don't intend on showing him over fences this year, but we will see. He took to it very easily. I wonder if it was because he was sent through a chute as a youngster, or if it is just his temperament? He does have a very good temperament, his main quirk is mane pulling, which I am working on every day.
Thanks guys
Alicia
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 11:08 am:
Oh, I forgot one thing. In regards to him being all grown up, he is definately NOT yet. He is still finishing his upper bones (you know, the feet finish first, on up the horse, to the wither), and his wither is just starting to spring up. I imagine he will grow another 1.5 inches up front before he is done. He also is still very narrow. When you see his video, you will notice he is all legs!
In regards to that, my saddle doesn't fit him too well. His lack of wither allows the saddle to slip from side to side. Any suggestions on what to do until he finishes? I am trying to sell my mare (she was just inseminated last weekend, and I am getting the embryo transferred) as I can't afford three boards (her's Harpers and the recipient mare), and I intend on using her sale money to buy a new saddle, and hopefully new custom boots. Anyway, I don't want to buy a new saddle till he is finished or at least close enough so I won't have to buy another one.
Any suggestions?
Alicia
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Member:
cspanhel
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Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 11:34 am:
Hi, my dressage stallion stood toed out until 3-3.5 years old...once his chest developed, no more toeing out + he moves straight (and always did). I asked my farrier about the toeing out and he said it would probably go away as the horse matured, and it did as already noted. cynthia
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 11:37 am:
Alicia,
Nice to know Harper is coming right along. I see that you mention a Trial for Guinness. What are the courts trying to determine? Hope all is well in that aspect.
Can't wait to see the U-tube post.
Take care,
Corinne
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 12:12 pm:
cynthia,
Well, he is already 3 years 9 months, but is still very undeveloped in his torso. The legs are definately done growing, but he looks almost like a yearling torso wise.
Corinne,
They are trying to determine who was at fault in the accident. I can't say much more, sorry.
Alicia
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 3:50 pm:
OK all, here is a video of me riding Harper a few months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI-vwDzi_g4
He is coming along nicely
Alicia
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 4:21 pm:
He's looking good. He looks relaxed and just looks sweet. What's wrong with his head? It looks nice to me.
How long have you been taking lessons?
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 5:26 pm:
He looks very relaxed.. How long under saddle? I am not a hunter nor really understand riding it.. I have a question .. you have no contact with him at all, other then your calf.. Is this hunter riding.. ?? Remember I ride dressage so am learning..
He is lovely, you found a perfect horse..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 7:48 pm:
What a lovely boy! Still some height to come in the front for sure - such a relaxed attitude as demonstrated by the gently swinging tail. To me, that ground-covering canter says "take me lower level eventing Mom!"
Congratulations and best wishes for the future... Stacy
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 8:45 pm:
He looks beautiful to me, Alicia. Very nice rhythmic and even trot and canter. He looks like he'll make a lovely hunter. Have fun!
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 2:47 am:
He's very slightly lame on the left fore to my eye. Is that where the problem was? Otherwise seems lovely and relaxed and balanced for a young horse.
Imogen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 8:23 am:
Good eye Imogen.
DrO
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 9:55 am:
Sara,
His head is really too coarse for a top hunter, but if all else is good, that won't matter much. I have been taking lessons since I started riding, 15 years ago.
Ann,
I don't always ride with no contact, but from time to time do. It depends upon what I am trying to accomplish. In this video, I was just trying to ride him free and let him do what he wanted without me trying to influence him. Normally, I DO ride with contact, and in the A show ring, you have to have contact, but a light one. I think my dressage trainer called it a training level contact. I try to ride him with mostly seat and position, and my leg is supposed to only be used when asking for lateral movement or to get him to step under more.
Stacy,
Yeah, we measure him growing another 2 inches. His canter is lovely, but I am not of tough enough stuff to do eventing!
Fran,
Thanks!
Imogen,
I didn't see that. However, yesterday, he turned up lame on both fronts, after my farrier had just done him. I am switching farriers. The problem was the hind left, not the front. His tendons were very sore. He had been done about a week prior in this video too. This last visit, I had called him because Harper had been tripping and hitting his fronts with his backs. So, the farrier cut more off his fronts. Made no sense to me, but I assumed he knew what he was doing. When Harper turned up so lame yesterday, that was the straw. I hope the new farrier can fix whatever it was the old one did.
Alicia
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 10:17 am:
Alicia, got it , thanks for the education..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
aannk
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 11:02 am:
Ann,
Also, I am yelled at a lot for not keeping contact, so that may have had something to do with it too! My early training incorrectly got me in the habit of not using any contact, as my trainer incorrectly told me that judges like to see a horse go around with no help from the rider. That may be true in beginner classes, but when you go to the rated stuff, the judge expects you to be able to ride, not just sit on the horse's back!
I still constantly have to remind myself to keep my contact consistant and even. Un learning early training is very hard for me!
Alicia
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Front Legs