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Discussion on How much senior feed to give?
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 2:09 pm:
Hi there..I mainly feed timathy hay to my 14 year old quarter horse mare...The vet floated her teeth and said she could use a little bit of senior feed.My problem is I don't understand grain and I don't know how much to feed her.She is approx.1000 pds.any ideas would be helpful.
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Member:
Qh4me
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Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 3:27 pm:
Tamara,
What is the condition of your horse at this time? Is she a little underweight, and that is why your vet suggested you supplement with a senior feed?
Horses should be fed as individuals to meet their needs of body weight and activity level.
Most feeds give you a recommendation on the bag, as it varies depending on the feed.
I use the recommendations as a guide, but keep an eye on the horses condition and adjust their grain intake to keep them at the condition I want them at.
Check out Dr. O's article Care for Horses -> Nutrition -> Equine Nutrition an Overview of Feeding Horses.
I have a 25 year old quarter horse gelding, I feed him Tiz Whiz Senior. He weighs approx 1100 pounds and he gets 6 pounds of Senior a day, but I am feeding alfalfa hay as well. Tiz Whiz suggests feeding up to 1 pound per 100 pounds of body weight.
No matter what feed you choose, be sure to start her off with small rations of grain, and work your way up to the desired amount. For instance, start off with 1/2 pound a day for a week, then increased to 1 pound for the next week and so on. If you choose to decrease her amount, be sure to do that gradually too.
I use 1/2 pound as a rule of thumb. No changes in feed more than 1/2 pound, weather decreasing or increasing intake.
Hope this helps.
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 4:12 pm:
The vet said she had wavy teeth which has been that way for years.He didn't want to take it all off at once. He said she wouldn't be chewing as well so she would benefit from some senior feed.She is a little ribby which seems to be the norm for her.She isn't being ridden too much lately.We had a bad hay year so the hay was a little overgrown, so lacking in nutrients a little.I would like to up her feed quality with the senior feed. Thanks for the advice.
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Friday, Nov 25, 2005 - 4:29 pm:
I am feeding alfalfa cubes to my senior mare 27yrs (10 pds a day) and she does very well on that.I'm starting to think that I should give my other mare the cubes too.I know its better to feed hay before resorting to grain.She's not too much under weight.How much do you think.5pds a day?Thanks
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 26, 2005 - 9:17 am:
Alfalfa cubes will be fine to boost the caloric / protein / calcium density of your current feeding regimen. There is no predetermined amount that will accomplish your goals so it is trial and error and keeping a feeding diary will help. The article Shawna references above has a section on thin horses and has a alfalfa recommendation. However there are other parts of the article that should be considered for other nutrients and your diet that the article will review. You should read the whole thing.
DrO
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 26, 2005 - 11:30 am:
Hi Dr.O...I'm confused I read the artical...Now I don't know what to do.Should I add veg oil to her diet,mineral supplement or use the senior meal as a mineral and vit supplement,with the 5pds alfalfa and timathy hay.help!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Nov 28, 2005 - 7:17 am:
Tamara, whenever you get confused you should repeat the "Golden Rule" in the article over and over until it sinks in. Feeding horses is just that simple. I know you would like for us to just say, "feed 5 lbs alfalfa" but any suggestion that we could make would not be right, or if right, not right for long. The article attempts to teach you to make these judgements.
You want your horse in a little better condition, therefore you need to increase the nutritional density of the diet a little bit. There are dozens of ways to do this including beginning alfalfa. As the article (and my reply above) says, a particularly good way to pick up the nutrition of feeding grass hay is to substitute some alfalfa because it addresses the nutritional weaknesses of the grass hay. Contrast this with what vegteble oil or grain bring to the nutrition table.
The article gives recommendations for the amount of alfalfa that you might need in the diet but it is more important for you to realize that any change you make needs to be assessed for results and further adjustments need to be made.
DrO
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 2:26 pm:
Dr.O Thanks for the advice.I'm adding 5pds a day alfalfa cubes and 1pd senior ration,and 1/2 cup corn oil, divided in half with 20 pds timathy hay .
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 5:03 pm:
Sounds like a good start Tamara. If you find your horse growing too fat on this first discontinue the oil as they are fairly empty (though concentrated) calories. If she continues to gain condition then cut the ration. The alfalfa is the best complement and could even be upped further if need be.
DrO
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 6:11 pm:
I am pleased to get the guidance we are always worried about doing the wrong things with our horses while we are learning.
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Member:
Mwebster
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 9:32 pm:
Hi Tamara,
Prior to making the change to your mare's diet, was she on free choice (all she wants) hay?
Melissa
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 1:47 pm:
Hi Melissa,No she's not on free choice hay because we don't have that much hay to spare.We have enough to get through the winter on 20pds a day per horse and I make up the difference with the cubed feed because I have to feed a senior anyway.I did get 47 bails extra of alfalfa hay but it wasn't dried properly and it all went moldy.Thats what I planned to feed to this mare if she needed extra besides the timathy hay.Thanks
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Member:
Mwebster
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 10:25 pm:
So, Tamara, it's fair to say then that her ribby condition isn't the result of a chewing problem, it's more an economic issue (hay's more expensive), right?
M
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 8:23 am:
Melissa your implication that Tamara's problem is because she puts the economic issues ahead of the good care for her horses seems inappropriate. The above discussion quite clearly demonstrates her desire to do all she can to care for her charges. If I have misunderstood your post, I apologize and you should correct me, but the implied meaning is strong.
DrO
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Member:
Hezajet
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 8:54 am:
 Tamara.......my compliments to you for finding a research site and putting yourself out there......using Doc O's articles and sifting through both the helpful information and (not so helpful or useful)information is a difficult and sometimes exhausting task............but well worth your time and efforts. I personally have found the information correct at this site, and the fact that Doc O...reads ALL our inquires is amazing. Having stated the above, I did not lose my best friend of many years because of one very simple observation that Doc O made and included in his response to my dilemma.
So all the above being stated.....Greetings and Welcome aboard to what I have found to be a VERY informative and caring site. I wish you the best with your charge/friend as well. Do not ever hesitate to ask a question and use good judgement to filter through some of the responses. You seem to be right on track with your senior citizen !!! 
Warm Wishes and Happy Trails
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 11:40 am:
Melissa, I don't know where you buy your feed, but around here cubed feed of any kind is a lot more pricey than hay.
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Member:
Dsibley
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 3:19 pm:
I don't know where Melissa lives, but here in the good old Midwest, we got hit with the worst draught in nearly 100 years. Some hay fields just dried up, others were good...and the only rain we got fell unexpectedly when it was drying on the ground. It's not only expensive to buy hay, but darned near impossible in some areas. I know of people who are paying semi drivers to travel to areas less hard-hit and bring big loads for several farms together. What Melissa describes in having a small amount go moldy could mean the difference between good feed and scrambling for any other alternative to keep the animals going for the winter.
Welcome, Melissa. I, too, am fairly new, but have already learned so very much from this site. Kudos to Dr. O for his work with us! *claps and cheers*
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:36 am:
Melissa,if you knew anything about hay you would know the cubes are better quality and twice a expensive as hay,and if you could read, we had a bad hay year.I had the vet float her teeth which cost me $375 for 2 horses so I don't think I am being cheap with my horses.If I didn't care about them I wouldn't be on the site.I am very upset that you would imply that I am being cheap with the care of my horses.If you read my first postings it would of told you that my horse had some teeth problems.Her previous owners didn't look after them and they are wavy and the vet didn't want to grind them down all at once,by the way the vets were equine vets.I do all the proper care vets,shots feet proper riding equipment etc.and if there are any problems I get help.If you don't know all the circumstances about people you should keep your opinions to your self.
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:42 am:
I would also like to add that she had pasture 24 hrs a day for 6 months we just brought them home 1 month ago.
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Member:
Mwebster
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 5:02 pm:
Hi folks,
I just checked back in and --- whoa!! --- no insult to Tamara was intended!! Yikes! I'm NOT saying an "all hay diet" is the only way to feed a horse, nor am I saying Tamara is some sort of cheapskate or "bad mom" for not paying "through the nose" for hay when it can't be had for a realistic price! I was merely trying to clarify that the horse doesn't have a tooth problem, i.e. it's more about getting enough calories into the horse, not about dealing with an "older horse" chewing problem.
M
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 5:03 pm:
Do not be upset Tamara we have a picture of a caring horse owner. Melissa is usually very nice perhaps this was a bad day for her or perhaps we misunderstood her meaning.
DrO
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Member:
Mwebster
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 5:06 pm:
I'm really sorry I offended Tamara. And I guess everyone else....
M
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 6:20 pm:
Thank-you I appreciate your appology.I love my horses very much.
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:21 pm:
Lest we not forget this is a very hard medium to communicate in, as each one of us has had to explain intentions that were interpreted, perhaps differently then we meant. Inflection, humor and other obvious benefits of speaking in person are lost in online communication.
Let's just remember that there is not one person here that wants anything other than the best for animals, and as I remember in a heated post I started once, that someone described us as a Passionate Bunch! What a great description!
When feelings are in jeopardy of being hurt, I am sure unintentionally, let's remember that We all care and love our horses more than words can say regardless if we are any good in written communication.
Having witnessed the outpouring of love and support on this sight, concerning everything from the death of horses, to ticks after long days in the pasture, to an undiagnosed lameness, I am sure no one ever means any harm in their comments and in fact have yet to run across a member who does.......people like that don't usually join wonderful compassionate sites like HA.
Tamara...I hope your mare is doing well...you are doing something right to keep her going strong at 27...keep it up. I am sure she really appreciates and loves you for all the work you are doing to diagnose her problem.
Have a good night guys!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 11:36 pm:
Corinne - well said.
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 6, 2005 - 10:58 am:
Just a little bit of info on hay cubes. They are like any other feed, you need to know the supplier/those who make them, and what quality of hay goes into hay cubes. We used to cube hay. We had different qualities of hay to cube as we did it in the field with portable machines. Our own hay that we cubed was of top quality. However, we were hired to cube hay for others in the field that had been rained on, was moldy, etc.
The only reason they had us cube it is it looked better in a cube. However, you can tell the quality of cubes you are buying and feeding by color, nice green, no little flecks of black in them which would be weed seed. The only blessing of cubing moldy hay is the mold spores are killed during the process due to the high heat involved in making the cube. EO
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 6, 2005 - 11:43 am:
Thanks for the advice.... I was always wondering how you would know the quality of the cubes.The one thing I do know is my 27 year old mare looks awsome from feeding some timathy alfalfa cubes and a couple other suppliments.I give her 10 pds a day plus hay.
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 6, 2005 - 12:47 pm:
Hello Tamara,
I have had to resort to alfalfa cubes for my gelding as he has COPD issues. He does not get hay in the winter. He is being fed around 16 to 17 pounds per day, plus supplements to round out the diet.
Your hay cube supplier should have a guaranteed analysis label on the cube container or sack. Depending on your supplier, the cubes should be graded 1, 2 or 3 or suitable for horse consumption.
Use that guaranteed analysis for some guidelines on feeding.
Hope this helps .
Susan B.
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 6, 2005 - 5:36 pm:
WSU, did a feed trial in 1980 using our hay cubes. They found that you can feed less pounds of alfalfa cubes than baled hay and get the same results. The horses utilized cubes better, they even gained weight using the same amount of pounds as baled hay. EO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 11:51 am:
Of course LKR this would depend on the quality of the hay and cubes being compared and also the moisture content must be taken into account. It is true cubes are dryer than hay so when compared on a lb for lb basis, even if the origin of the two is the same, the cubes will contain more nutrition.
DrO
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Member:
Winger
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 11, 2005 - 2:37 pm:
My girlfriend feeds her 30yr old guy 12pds a day of timathy,Alfalfa cubes soaked plus some supplements.She gives him a little hay but he can't eat it he only has chicklets for teeth and he is a fat tubby boy.It's amazing for 12pds a day.He is a 1000 pd quarter horse X.
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Member:
Choney
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Posted on Monday, Dec 12, 2005 - 1:50 am:
haha chiclets for teeth, that's cute!
Cher
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