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  Discussion on Acute Painless On/Off Chronic Stifle Issue cross-tracking
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Member:
Lennon1

Posted on Thursday, Dec 22, 2005 - 12:40 pm:

I hope the title links w/your 12/22/05 response to my question under discussion "Sudden Lameness, ?stifle" with DrM. I do not know how to move a discussion as you requested BUT will summarize findings, which elicited your response that it sounded like an acute chronic issue of some kind: Firstly, the horse has always had a hitchy way of presenting the left rear for hoof picking. He wants to flex the hock deeply, keeping the leg as much under himself as possible, and he makes a jerky movement almost like he is going to kick out. Other observations: Intermittent lameness in left rear leg, high up, appearing like the stifle, but no pain to palpation. In fact, horse seems to enjoy (DrOps down in relaxation) massage to stifle and muscles above after work. Problem shows as a short, stilted stride, with the leg crossing over medially (not tracking straight). Horse was in truck accident, which injured left hip and left front hoof (crushed). Horse is 7 yo QH reiner, used for Western Equitation at this time. Straight legs behind with clean hocks. Problem worse in cold weather, after standing in stall for hours, shows at beginning of work, sometimes after big trotting (which he has not done in past w/reining), better after forward loping, routinely observed in transition from forward lope to a forward trot, but is less apparent with a straight transition to an easy jog or quiet trot, shows mostly traveling to the right w/affected leg on the outside of circle work (bigger stride in trot; push off into lope), horse will halt drawing rear legs together (as Western horse stops: feet together to either back up or turn around or slide. Sort of jumps under himself), by putting most of the weight ever so slightly, on the RIght (momentary delay in left leg coming up under), problem comes out looking like a problem on front right (diagonal) as the front left neck seems to slightly elevate to bring left side forward. However, when left rear leg is encouraged (by my leg or whip on lunge), the unevenness in front levels out, left hind does not track straight, but crosses under towards the right rear and in play in his stall doing his spins & leaps, he steps on RIGHT rear bell boot and tears it off (he was tearing off his RIGHT shoe!), shows no sign of pain. Problem often corrects itself with continued work (5 minutes or so) and then leg become "tired" after about 25 minutes of serious work. Still, horse shows no discomfort and continues on even though it seems he has to work real hard to keep the left rear leg moving forward.

I was hoping it sounded like muscle spasm. It is a more consistent issue this Winter. My resources are limited and when I have my on-site Dr.Vet come, I'd like to know as much about the problem as possible (as he's not in pain) and be able to make decisions about maximizing my treatment dollars-IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. Therefore, in light of your earlier comments, my clinic has xray equipment and a standing MRI. The problem MAY involve the hip area as I know the left rear suffered impact in the Nov. 2002 truck accident and thereafter the horse was used by the previous owner extensively to learn the slide. To maximize diagnostics, would the MRI be most helpful with what I describe seeing? Would the MRI ALSO show what the Xray would as well? What about ultrasound? Would arthroscopic investigation use an MRI as a guide? I'd rather not pay for a lot of little diagnostics if the BIG bill for the MRI have the greatest chance of showing what's wrong by a sweep of the whole rear limb. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!}
Member:
Lennon1

Posted on Thursday, Dec 22, 2005 - 12:50 pm:

Oh - Forgot to say: horse is on MSM, ChonDrOitin sulfate, glucosamine HCL, (Devils Claw and LaminaSaver for front left hoof).
Member:
Lilly

Posted on Thursday, Dec 22, 2005 - 8:21 pm:

Hi Nancy,
I don't have any helpful information for you but your post really caught my attention when I read about the hoof picking. You precisely described how my horse reacts to having his back right hoof picked. He has DrOpped fetlocks with severely enlarged ligaments. He had ultrasounds on Tuesday and I was told to never ride him again.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 8:04 am:

His problem was acute and happened at odd times Nancy, while yours is a chronic with a regular pattern.

You have the cart before the horse here, the decision to do advanced diagnostics will depend on what is found on the physical and the answer to most of your questions will depend on the results of that physical. Wow in-house MRI is still quite rare away from research and teaching institutions but you can only do MRI on the lower legs even in the best machines, at least at this time.

Some of the vague hind limb problems you describe do trigger one shot in the dark however see Equine Diseases » Lameness » Muscle & Tendon Diseases » Tying Up, Rhabdomyolysis, and Shivers (EPSM).
DrO
Member:
Lennon1

Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 10:43 am:

Today warmed up to the 40's and he is just about 100% for Doc on the lunge! Yesterday I rode him and he was deep on his hind end and happy to go forward. Didn't want to leave the indoor after 30 work. Weird. Thank you for your thoughts, and as long as he in not in pain, I'll wait until the end of Winter to get the vet on board. See what I learn myself until then with bute, Robaxcin and careful note of temperature, etc. I'll let you know where it goes in the Happy New Year! Thank you both, and Ann, I appreciate your interest and hope you are coping with bad news - which we will all hear at one time or another!! God Bless
Member:
Lennon1

Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 6:52 pm:

Oh - my vet and farrier are those used by our US Olympic teams (jumping and driving and dressage). Dr. Furlong has a standing MRI in use for about a year and a half. He also has a nuclearcintigraphy machine. He's in Florida now, so that is another reason why I'm going to take careful observations until March. It was 45 degrees today and the horse went exceptionally well, with only a few phases of unevenness behind. Walk, stretch and bend and extra encouragement of the left rear seemed to reset. He backs 10 paces with ease, round (on a loose rein of course, as he is a very broke to the bit Western horse (Tom McCutcheon trained, another gold medalist for the US in Reining) and straight. Strange.

My farrier told me that he sees horses being shod below 25 degrees being uncomfortable with the nails. (He is a therapeutic farrier, with prior association with New Boulton, PA Horse Hospital. I trailer to Dr. Furlongs every 4 weeks for Steve to work on that front left foot). Maybe the scar tissue in this foot just hurts on the cold hard ground when it's cold and that sets off a chain of "cold" related events elsewhere. Whatever it is, I need to understand it as best as I can as it is something that we shall have to deal with more and more over time. Thanks again.
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