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Discussion on Possible Placentitis???
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 25, 2005 - 9:15 am:
Merry Christmas!
My mare is 285 days along. She had a small bag yesterday and today it is even bigger. She has no fever and her udder doesn't seem painful. This is her 3rd foal. She started a small bag at 305 days with her first foal, not sure with the 2nd. Could this be normal? I plan on having the vet out to US and did start her on SMZ's. She is a few dates late on her last Pneumabort shot...I am afraid to give it.
Thanks,
Barbara
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 25, 2005 - 9:18 am:
One more pic.....
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 25, 2005 - 3:00 pm:
Merry Christmas, Barbara! Just what you need during the holidays, something to worry about, huh?!
Mares vary so much almost anything is "normal" when it comes to bagging up. Usually a mare will follow the same pattern, but not always. And, often their first foaling differs from the following ones. All that being said...
How sure are you of her breeding date? Does she show any other signs, like how heavy is she and where is she carrying the foal? Any softening around the tail/pelvic area? Restlessness?
If not, and she isn't tender to the touch, there is not fluid leaking, and no fever, I wouldn't worry much but would just keep an eye on her. Sometimes mares will bag up, loose the bag, and bag up again.
Another thought, how much exercise is she getting? A mare that is standing around will tend to bag up earlier and faster than one getting exercise in my experience.
As to the shots, at this point I'd call the vet this coming week just to be certain, but I think it would be o.k.
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 25, 2005 - 4:54 pm:
Thanks Sara,
Holidays always seem to be kept interesting with these horses.
She appears fine otherwise. She is out in a big field 14 hours a day. She moves around a lot, though no running....she's quite wide but not low.
I know her breeding date for sure as she was only bred once and it was AI. I did not write down when she started bagging up last year. But if it was this early I would have noted it.
I will be on the phone tomorrow AM with my vet to ask about the shot and U/S her.
-B
This is the mare a few weeks ago.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Dec 26, 2005 - 8:23 am:
Though this could be normal barbara, they are well developed for 285 days and maybe more important is how fast they are developing. We also have seen reports where the teats enlarge then subside with no ill effects. I would also factor in how developed she looked the preceeding 285 days and the character of the fluid, if any, you express out of them. Best would be no fluid (it is all edema) and most worrisome is if it looks like milk.
The bottom line is that from here there is no way to be sure so I too would US if I was concerned.
DrO
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Monday, Dec 26, 2005 - 1:40 pm:
We had the same thing happen with one of our mares last year except she had what looked like colostrum seeping. This went on for over a month before she foaled. It was her first foal and we were very concerned. However, she would do it for a day or two, and then quit. She ended up foaling without incident and had colostrum and plenty of milk. Hope this is the scenario with you rmare. Good Luck. EO
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Friday, Dec 30, 2005 - 7:51 am:
Thank you,
Her bag might be a little bit smaller but really not much of a change. She is on regumate and antibiotics. So I will hold my breathe for a another month.
I will be sure to update....hopefully, with good news.
-B
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 31, 2005 - 9:13 am:
What did the ultrasound find?
DrO
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 31, 2005 - 11:42 am:
DrO,
My vet said that she didn't find it neccesary to US.  The mare's bag is now about 1/2 the size it was. She is still on the antibiotics and regumate @ 291 days.
-B
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 1, 2006 - 10:07 am:
Because this type of exam is done so infrequently some do not have confidence in their ability to properly image the changes. Though the article gives fairly concrete ideas about what is normal and not normal, practice is still important and trying to get good images without a set of stocks can be tough. All things considered as much as I dislike medicating my fears if the foal was lost without an attempt at treating I would hate that worse and the changes in the bag are suggestive you are on the right track.
DrO
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 1, 2006 - 5:33 pm:
Thank you DrO. 
Here is her bag today.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 1, 2006 - 7:54 pm:
Looking at the first pictures that you posted, I was wondering if your mare had edema under her belly too, or just her bags? She looks more normal in the last picture. Mares!! She probably just doesn't want you to take anything for granted, and to keep you "on your toes."
btw, she's a pretty mare.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jan 2, 2006 - 7:22 am:
They do look less tight.
DrO
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Member:
Morg1
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Posted on Monday, Jan 2, 2006 - 5:36 pm:
I had a mare do the same thing last year. She started producing a bag about the same time as yours and she would go back and forth between having a really full bag and relaxed hindquarters to a smaller bag and not so relaxed. She ended up foaling on her 339th day. I would get myself all wound up and then check her a few hours later and she would look totally different. She also would go through several days giving me all the signs except milk and I would check her during the night, and then she would regress and I didn't feel the need to check her again during the night for another 2 weeks. When I finally saw the colostrum on her teats I knew it was close and she foaled that same night, but that doesn't work for all mares. I know that mares don't always act the same with every pregnancy, but I kept a log of her changes and what day of her pregnancy that occurred. Things like, 'Day 321: Udder is very swollen, and she has relaxed hindquarters.' I'm hoping that when she has a foal again I can kind of use that as a guide to remind me that she did that stuff before then maybe I won't be so nervous (yeah right). I'm wishing you the best. Good Luck.
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Monday, Jan 2, 2006 - 6:46 pm:
Hello,
I will have my fingers crossed for a long time. She foaled both times at 340 days and never had bag like this so early on. She has no edema on her belly.
My vet said something about a progesterone test to see if we should stop the antibiotics in another 7-10 days.
I'll never forget my mare who went 366 days....now that was nerve wracking....
-B
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 - 7:57 am:
Hi,
I am still holding my breath here at 308 days. We are getting closer to the 320 day mark.
I just wanted to give a quick update. My vet had talked about pulling a progesterone to see if we could take her off the antibiotics. The day she was coming out the bag got a little bigger. It is now almost the size of the first photos. So the mare will stay on the antibiotics and regumate a little longer. Her hind end has softened a bit, but her vulva remains the same. We did see the foal kicking (a lot) two days ago.
-B
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 - 1:59 pm:
Hang in there, Barbara!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 8:19 am:
Thanks for the update and we have our fingers crossed.
DrO
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 4:53 am:
All the crossed fingers worked. We have a baby and it's a boy.
He was born at 1 AM today. Everything was fine except after three hours and him not being able to figure out the whole udder thing we had to bottle feed him. He then nursed on his own.
Thank you to DrO and all for the support.
There was something I've never seen in a placenta which I will post a pic of in my next post.
-B
Here he is - This guy has four white socks.
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 5:03 am:
What is this?? It is about 5 inches long.
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 7:42 am:
OK, further investigation/less sleep leads me to wonder if this could have been a twin? It is not 5 inches, it is a little bigger than a tennis ball.
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Member:
Morg1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 9:34 am:
I've read something about this, but my memory is failing me at the moment. I'm sure Dr. O will be able to shed some light. That is one cute foal! Congratulations! Isn't it funny how babies can be marked completely different than their parents. I'm sure you will find more white on horses back in his pedigree if you look. Enjoy. I have 3 more months to wait.
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 10:04 am:
Congratulations Barbara - what a beautiful boy!
Lynn
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 10:36 am:
Great news Barbara and WOW on the coloring. It may be a cyst, granuloma, sterile abscess, etc... cut into it and see what is inside to know for sure.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 10:46 am:
Barbara , does the sire have any white on his face ? a snip or maybe some white on his chin...?? A beautiful foal.. and i am interested in the report from Dr. O on the ''what ever'' that is..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots...
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 10:46 am:
What a flashy little fella, Barbara . . . So glad for you that everything turned out so great . . .
Very interesting about the placenta . . .wonder if that had something to do with your initial post about her bagging up early?
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 11:31 am:
Barbara - what a beautiful foal! Love the white markings. He's going to be one flashy guy! I love his dam's color, btw. What breed? TB? I couldn't tell from the one shot of mom.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 12, 2006 - 12:50 pm:
Cut into it Barbara, I'm about to die of curiosity!
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 1:00 pm:
OK, we cut into it yesterday afternoon. It was not my foal's evil twin.  It was a capsule with fluid inside. The capsule had some cartilagenous looking/feeling parts. Really weird. My vet wasn't sure what it was.
The mare is a TB, she was my show jumper and I've owned her for 8+ years. The sire is chestnut with three socks and a thin blaze. This is her third foal by horses with lots of chrome. This is the first with so much white.
-B
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 1:11 pm:
Here he is last night. We've had some extra cold weather...I usually don't blanket babies.
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 1:18 pm:
He is just toooo precious for words.
Good Luck,
Shirl
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 1:25 pm:
Congratulations, Barbara. He's adorable and what a lot of chrome!
Sue
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 1:35 pm:
Oh, Barbara, you need to blow that picture up and get it framed! So sweet!!
How weird about the "blob." I wonder if early on it had started out as a twin? Or just misplaced cells? Very strange.
I once knew a girl who had a cyst removed from her stomach and it contained teeth and hair! Maybe this is the same kind of thing.
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 2:00 pm:
Sara! Teeth and hair! Makes my stomach churn just thinking about it...yuck.
On the up side, thanks for helping me stick to my diet - it's almost lunch time and I've suddenly lost my appetite!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 2:35 pm:
 Wish I was so easily put off food!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 3:02 pm:
Barbara, what a beautiful foal! Love the chrome!!
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Member:
Redalert
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 3:42 pm:
Oh my gosh, what an adorable pic. That little guy already is a pin up! He looks so comfy in his outfit! He looks like he has a sweet temperament,already, too!
Nancy
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 11:05 pm:
Your little guy is definitely a SWEETHEART  . Congratulations!!
Interesting about the mass in the placenta. I wonder if your vet could shed some more light on what that might be.
He is a looker and I am sure HA members are going to have fun on naming the baby if you haven't already done so.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 6:48 am:
Great picture picture Barbara of a really handsome foal. The tumor sounds like a vascular lesion, like a leaky blood vessel that exuded serum that developed a capsule that grew over time. These will sometimes calcify perhaps leading to the cartilagenous feel. Just a guess.
DrO
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 7:06 am:
Barbara, he's a looker! Congratulations! Have you named him yet?
D.
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 8:05 am:
Thank you DrO for your educated guess. Is it possible this tumor is what started the early bagging up? The placenta was otherwise unremarkable.
Yes, he has a name. Sometimes we come up with a name quick...and then there is our foal born in January that still doesn't have a name...
This guy's name should start with 'J' per his registry. So we named him "Jasper".
Now if you guys want to help name the first foal... 
-B
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 10:07 am:
My first thought is no, this is incidental to the bagging up unless the components are found to be inflammatory on cytology/histology.
DrO
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