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  Discussion on EIPH PROBLEMS
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2000 - 4:33 pm:

I have a 10 yo QH gelding that was raced as a 3 yo. Original owner says horse was not a bleeder while on the track. I started this horse on barrels last Feb. and he is doing quite well. Problem is that he is a bleeder. I did not experience this problem until recently. I ride 4 miles 3 days a week (1 mile/ walk, 1 mile/ trot, 1 mile canter/ gallop, and 1 mile walk), until 2 weeks ago he never bled during his workouts. He is on 5 Prednisone (prednisolone is now recommended instead of prednisone) tablets daily, as he has pretty significant allergy problems. I live in the Houston, Tx. area where it seldom gets very cold, so I leave him on the Pred. year round. His blood work is normal and his recovery times are as good as my 6 yo geldings'. When he bleeds, it is only about a teaspoon full through one or both nostrils. He has no cough and his performance is better than ever. My question is, how much bleeding is too much and when do you say O.K., he can't do this type of work anymore? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! P.S. This horse is a true winner and my HOPE is to haul him professionally by 2001.

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2000 - 10:08 am:

I suspect the allergies have weakened the tissues of the lungs and are partially responsible for the bleeding. What are the symptoms of the allergy when it is uncontrolled and what other managemnet changes are you using to control it. What are you feeding?
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2000 - 11:45 am:

The allergy symptoms include rapid breathing (resp. of 120 and shallow, at rest, during the summer months only) and increased heart rate, along with a clear nasal discharge occasionally, and watery eyes. He gets straight oats (as he is a little high, naturally) along with Grand Vite supplement and hay which is generally soaked. I had him on Strategy, but I have to feed him too much of it to maintain his weight. He maintains well on the 6 lbs of oats that I am feeding and he doesn't get silly.

I had also read somewhere that sweet clover can cause unexplained bleeding in some horses. Looking back on the last couple of weeks, we are really greening up and the clover is unbelievable in our yard. I had let him graze for about an hour last Sat., in the clover. The following day, after exercising, I noticed that his nasal discharge was pink. Then, on Tuesday, after a run on the pattern, he bled about a teaspoonful, total, out of both nostrils. I have taken him off pasture altogether. I'll wait a week, without changing anything else, and see what happens. What do you think? Could the clover be the culprit? JOY

Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2000 - 11:07 am:

How interesting. Respiration of 120? That's a problem. Something that is a little odd is generally horses with allergies have difficult breathing, not shallow. Are you feeding hay or have you been feeding hay?

Some types of clover contains a harmless compound called coumarin. Some types of mold will convert the coumarin to dicoumoral a powerful anticoagulant. I have listed yellow sweet clover and white sweet clover as containing coumarin. it is possible this is your problem if the horse has had access to moldy clover.
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2000 - 9:32 pm:

I do feed coastal hay 2x daily... His allergy symptoms were rather unusual. We had him on 1 packet daily of Azium, for a period of one week. We then switched him to 14 Prednisone (prednisolone is now recommended instead of prednisone) tablets daily (crushed in his feed) and the breathing problem subsided in just a few days. We gradually decreased the dosage by 2 pills daily until we reached what we found to be sufficient in controling his symptoms. We are at 5 pills daily at this time. There are also days (when it is cold out) that I can skip dosages with no apparent problem.

RE: Clover - I have kept him in the corral with no access to grazing this week - I exercised him regularly today, with no bloody discharge at all.
AMAZING! Thanks, Joy

Posted on Friday, Feb 25, 2000 - 8:53 am:

Joy,
You need to read the article on COPD in Diseases: Respiration. You may be doing slow but permanant damage to the lungs by continuing to feed hay.
DrO
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