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  Discussion on At a loss...heaves/copd or something that is being missed?
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2000 - 10:09 am:

I have a 16+ year old Standardbred that has some kind of respiratory problem that has been for no better finding - called heaves. He has been taken off hay - he gets dengie at nite. His grain is a high quality complete feed with beet pulp. I have had vets do the "barn level" tests, bag, exercise and listen along with the antibiotics, steriods, bronciodialators, antihistimines etc but nothing changes his "symptoms". His symptoms are: white or clear discharge from the nose, runny eyes, "heavy" breathing. He has NEVER coughed and the only time I have worried about riding him was a very steep uphill climb that he didn't hesitate to do but he was huffing and puffing so hard I got off on the ride down and took a break. I do not have him on 24/7 field turnout as there is no shelter in the field where he is so he is stalled. His stall is bedded with white mulch - not shavings of any kind and it is an open front stall that gets good air circulation. I had him vetted when I bought him and nothing was "heard" in his lungs - the vet (#2 to look) now say there are dead lung sounds ? He was put back on albuterol and gave me a 3-day steriod shot - no change. I'm at a loss as to what to do next.

I have also put him on a supplement recently called DMG5000 that is supposed to help with allergies and heavey horses. Might see a slight improvement.

I am looking to move to a field boarded situation which would be the ideal arrangement, but then I am worried about grass founder but to him being on over grazed/over used pastures. If it's not one thing with this horse - it's another.

If there is anyone that has any ideas on what the best direction is to go or what this may be since no medicine seems to make the symptoms better or worse, I'd appreciate all input.

Oh, I believe this guy was off the trotter track in his earlier days but was bought by a family and has been a trail horse since probably about early 90s. I only use him as a trail horse mostly walk, little trot, no canter (he won't). I don't know if that would give any clues to things....

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2000 - 5:18 pm:

Hello Karen,
What do your veterinarians diagnose the problem as or what is there best guess? How did this start? How long have the symptoms been going on and is there any seasonality to it? I assume he receives no hay. I need a detailed list of medications, dosages, and times given also.

If this is allergic COPD it could simply be the barn environment is maintaining the problem. Be sure to study the article and scientific reports there is a lot of important information in them.
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2000 - 12:53 pm:

Dr. O,

Answered last night, but it didn't post. Oh well, first vet said - unknown. She is the one that did the bag test, exercised him then listened, did anitbiotics, steriods, albuterol, and trihist. This is been going on for the better part of a year. No seasonality to it. No changes with med therapy. Second vet said - COPD/Heaves - take off hay so I did, gave him 3 day steriod shot and liquid albuterol which again had no effect on symptoms. I don't know what type of testing to do next. He doesn't seem to have any problems being ridden - other than "blowing". I saw that term in another discussion about Standardbreds and it is a good definition for what is does but I don't know what it means.

I'm trying to determine what next to do and what caused this. I did have him stalled at a barn where they used very fine wood shavings (basically sawdust - wood scraps that were ground up) from a mill versus the store bought pine shavings or wood mulch - could that have been the cause of the problem.

I'm just pulling at straws to figure out what is wrong. So if I put him out "fielded" and the problems don't get better which way do I go?

Posted on Friday, Apr 28, 2000 - 8:10 am:

Hello Karen,
You may have some other probme than COPD and a complete respiratory work up needed for accurate diagnosis.

I assume since on the 26th you stated your horse was being stalled and on the 27Th you said he was out that the horse has only been out of the barn 24 hours?

If it is COPD, there are two forms and the lack of seasonality suggests you either have allergies to hay and barn mold spores, or have both allergies to barn spores and something that occurs in the pastures during the summer: pollens, molds we are not sure yet. If you have the second problem well...it takes moving the horse but this form is much less common than the first. Let's say you have the form that 95% of all horses do: the spores found in the barn and hay.

The first problem you are having is you are ignoring the basic tenet of treating COPD: The horse must be taken off hay and not allowed access to the barn at anytime until he gets well. Just minutes of exposure to the barn can activate the problem.

The second problem is you have to realize it takes time, sometimes several months for all the problems in the lungs to clear up. If the problem has been allowed to go on for some time there may even be permanant damage. Only time and a lot of it will tell us.

So you have two choices: further diagnostic work up to better define the problem or just assume the most likely cause is the COPD the second vet diagnosed and then put the horse out to pasture. To speed up recovery you can use corticosteroids as directed in the article but it is important to understand that the aggressive use of steroids may control symptoms but if there is continued exposure to the allergins, contined damage to the lungs will occur.
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 28, 2000 - 8:41 am:

Dr. O,

Thanks. I am going to find a place to board him that I can put him out of the barn completely. You read to fast - what I wrote was he is NOT out 24/7 as there is no shelter so he has to go in at night and his original barn stall used wood shavings....this guy has never been on field board.

I will get him out on field board just as soon as I can. I'm 1/2 way to correcting the problem in that he doesn't get hay - he gets chopped forage called Dengie - or should that go to? I was told that this is what he had to have due to COPD.

Time will tell I guess if being out helps. Can he still be ridden? and what further diagnostic testing do I ask for if I decide to go that way?

Thanks - I just need some unbiased advice so I'm not just walking blindly into this disease.

K

Posted on Saturday, Apr 29, 2000 - 7:36 am:

For more information on diagnosing lower respiratory disease see: Equine Diseases: Respiratory System: Chronic Lower Airway Disease. Any forage that is free of mold will do. I am not sure what the Dengie is so I cannot judge. Essentially to process grass so that it is free of mold it needs to be mechanically dried as it is cut. There are some other suggestions in the article on COPD.

Whether he can be ridden or not depends on how serious the problem when there is just a cough riding is OK but when they are having breathing problems it si best to wait.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 10:24 am:

Karen,

I have a 30 year old pony that has had heaves for several years. She is completely symptom free at this point. She is on a dry dirt paddock (no grass), being fed only beet pulp based feed and alfalfa cubes. This eliminates her symptoms. Before I found this "miracle cure" combination for her symptoms, I used MSM and sulfur-based nutrients. Also, alfalfa is a natural antihistimine. They helped. I also tried all the vet medications available, including the very expense ($250/bottle) albuterol-like gel from Canada, and didn't get much (if any) relief. I had her on a nebulizer (didn't help much), and was about to build an air conditioned, air-filtered, enclosed stall for her. Nothing's too good for my baby! Thank God, she is symptom free today, and kickin' up her heels like a 2 year old. Best of luck to you and your Standardbred. Go into the alternative medicines if nothing else works. Some have reported that acupuncture, chiropractic, and energy therapies have really helped.

Cindy

Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 11:11 am:

Was he ever scoped or had head xrays?
My mare has trouble breathing, she is not heavey, just labored, esp. going up big hills.
I found that she had one side of her nose blocked, she was diagnosed with sinus cysts.
(Long story, you can check it out under Ethmoid Hematoma) Anyway, I have had her on Homeopathic Sinus Remedy and she has been improving steadily, I also started her on Cough Free, even tho she does not cough, I feel it helps to keep her "opened up".
Please have that possibility ruled out, have your vet scope him and see whats up there.
Good Luck to you!! Keep us informed. :)
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