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Discussion on Typically, how long from swelling to drainage?
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 2:03 am:
Hello- 16 yr gelding exhibiting signs of Pigeon Fever, (swelling on chest- little stiff when moving) but still unsure until vet exam. He is eating, just moving a bit slower and warm swelling in chest. The swollen area seems to be a bit tender. He has been a lone horse for over a year, with no known PF at my premises ever.
From first signs of swelling, typically, how long might it take before drainage occurs?
Are there cases of PF where the abcesses never drains and the horse recovers? I just got done reading earlier posts of terrible results. Can there be mild cases that don't need much treatment? Or am I looking at a long road ahead full of daily treatments, flushings, etc.? IF in case this is PF. Just trying to do a little research...and learning... which I have, on your site and other articles. thanks for giving me a heads up. I'll be able to go to vet with a little knowlege. Appreciate your comments.
Liz
P.S. 3 mo. ago this gelding had large laceration on hoof to which he was on antib. for 2 weeks.
He also has COPD. Poor guy, now this!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 7:55 am:
Hello Mary,
We don't have PF here so I have never had to treat a case other than those on this site but this is what they tell me. Though the time to rupture is very variable, and I understand can be weeks, the abscesses typically are going to have to drain to heal.
DrO
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 10:46 am:
Mary , start hot packing it, this will speed it along... but again it can take weeks.. i have heard some can go for months... We have dealt with it on several horses, each had a different time table...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 10:51 am:
You are in North Carolina I see! (son's golf team is headed to Myrtle Beach in April). I am in CA and had never heard of Pigeon Fever or Dryland Distemper until speaking with my vet on the phone (we really have no horse vet in our area, so must trailer out or wait until the "vet days" a couple times a month). He suggested possibly the PF. To watch closely & monitor his symptoms for a couple days before trailering. I guess as long as horse isn't ill, can't lance swellings until they are ready? As you know, and I do too, it is difficult to diagnose over the phone or net.
The horse's pectoral muscles between front legs seem a bit weird and swelling in chest area.
Are these symptoms of other things? Is it possible that coughing hard from COPD to cause anything like this? Other wise, horse seems hungry & semi happy, just moving slightly slower in front.
thanks
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 10:57 am:
Thanks Ann for your comments- my phone vet suggested possibly hot compress too after a bit. (he said watch for a day or so, maybe the horse rammed the fence to cause.... maybe the pigeon fever... I'm fearing the latter, after closer exam by myself)
Dr.O and all- how do you 'hot pack'? for how long? etc. Have not had to do that ever before either! I read somewhere that you recommend a salve to bring out an abscess too.
again, thanks.
Liz
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 3:22 pm:
Hot packing is a royal pain on your hands..  specially in the winter when the air is cold.. what i have done is i fill a bucket with boiling water, by the time i get to the pen its cooler so that i can dip rags in and then place them on the chest and hold them there till cool.. this holds the heat for a few minutes... my bucket stays hot for about 20 mins worth of ''packing'' .. i have tried the those snap glove / shoe warmers.. worthless , they don't produce enough heat... becareful you don't burn the horse.. i know , i know what about your own hands? they get burnt as well.. also i shave the chest, it makes for easier packing and cleaning later when the abscess breaks...HAVE FUN , have plenty of hand cream..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 8:06 am:
Ann has it down. Use 2 rags. I usually put a little antiseptic in the water. Betadine will evaporate in the heat but chlorhexidine works well. In the winter, transporting the water in a cooler works well to keep it from cooling. When you get done, dry the area and apply a little ichthammol ointment (usually you can get this from your vet or tack store) to the swelling to encourage maturation.
DrO
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 10:37 am:
After first noticing swollen area, how long to wait before hot compress? The sooner the better? or wait until? Is this condition a wait and see thing ever? It has been a couple days. Horse seems to be doing ok in all other aspects, just waiting for swelling to soften.
And, is there another name for chlorheidine that I might recognize, or it that the shelf name?
Thanks so much. Better start.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 1:52 pm:
IF you are dealing with pigeon fever, i wait till the lump gets pretty large and it does.. then a soft spot starts to form, or a golf ball like shape forms on the large lump, this is where it will break.. that is when i start the hot packing... you could be hot packing for several days.. or even more.. some take their sweet time to break.. My horses never went off their feed, only one filly became a little sore... its just a nasty illness that takes it course...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 2:48 pm:
I had I horse that loved to get PF on his chest every year. He was the only one in my barn. I rigged up a big piece of vinyl like a diaper between his front legs that had a strap that held up one end around his neck and another strap that held up the other end at his girth. Then I took saturated hot diapers and shoved them in while he was tied. If you have a microwave you can reheat them with that. Otherwise you just have to pour more warm water into it. After he burst, I used the same contraption to contain the yuck. It looks very silly but the vinyl hold the heat in better and it allows you to do it for longer. I Imagine the more you hot pack it the sooner it will rupture.
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006 - 11:28 pm:
To wash out the abscess once it breaks, what is the difference in Chlorhexidines? Do I find Chlorhexidine diacetate or chlorhexidine gluconate. I've seen both ingrediants on the net.
Educate me!
Is this known by another brand name product for this purpose?
Then should a cream or spray be put in the abscess hole?
thanks
Liz
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 8:37 am:
It doesn't matter which "salt" you use Mary they are equivalent and this is the only name you need look for. Chlorhexidine is not a brand name but is the generic name and is in many products as you have found.
For more on the use of chlorhexidine on open wounds see, Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Wounds / Burns » Wounds: First Aid Care for when your abscess first opens then follow the link in the article to Long Term Wound Care for the daily therapy.
DrO
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 8:45 pm:
Hello- I am still waiting for the swelling to erupt (horse seems to be ok, tho the lump area is tender). I am giving one bute tablet twice a day also.
Someone possibly recommended DMSO as a drawing ointment. Or is the ichthammol ointment better?
That black ointment really smells bad. I applied some today. Will start the hot packing soon.
Should I bother to find some DMSO? anyone?
thanks
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 9:40 pm:
I can't say about the DMSO, but i did use the ichthammol...and it stays on your hands, the smell for ever... funny story.. i had been hot packing etc. came in got cleaned up to go to the mall with my daughter.. her friend works the make up / perfume counter... she gave me a hug and backed up.. ''a hem, Ann what is THAT you are wearing.. ?'' the stuff stays in the cracks of your hands.. and with the hot packing well your hands become pretty cracked...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Kari
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 10:39 pm:
I've got nothing but good to say about ichthammol however it did start me using surgical gloves. It's also great for patching roofs and greasing tractor parts.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 10:49 pm:
S.T.Bruce, I DID USE GLOVES... the ''smell'' goes right thru 'em... !! 
never thought to use the stuff for other things tho.. !
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 2:56 am:
NO NO, Mary, not DMSO. It doesn't draw....it does the opposite! You could spread the infection. The ointment is icky, but works well. If you can't bear to use it but still want to work on it, use your hot soaks, you can add some salt to the water or epsom salt.
I've often wondered if packing something like that in sugardine would work. Dr.O will know. Also, it might go faster without the bute - Dr.O'll know that too!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 12:30 pm:
I agree, no DMSO.
DrO
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Member:
Gailkin
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 9, 2006 - 3:22 pm:
I hope it doesn't turn out to be pigeon fever Mary. My horses got it three years ago. My older one had first lesion on his belly, then his chest and finally his scrotum. The first one was abcessed already when I saw it (I had been out of country for 4 weeks). At first I thought it was a rattlesnake bite, but vet said PF. The chest was lanced by my vet and the scrotum I lanced when it came to a head. However, my younger horse (4 at the time) developed only a lump on his front chest that swelled to about golf ball or lemon size. It never abcessed and finally went away on its own. His energy level stayed high too. The third horse on the property never got sick. My older horse has had it before I think because of an old scar on his chest where the PF left another scar! I would probably recommend that you not force the issue and see if the swelling resolves on its own. I am also in CA where PF is a real problem. Several friends had it internally in their horses last year and it lasted for months and months. My older horse's worst lesions healed in about two months total, but the swollen scrotem took about 1 and a half years for the swelling to go down. The young guy had no scarring or effects from his swelling. Good luck. I hope it doesn't become serious. Gail
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 9, 2006 - 6:34 pm:
Ok everyone... abscess broke today! Did a couple days of hot packing beforehand, but it was probably ready on it's own. This seems (so far) to be a text book case.
But... nobody warned me about the gross-ness of what would come out of this abscess...(and I thought it was bad raising sick kids)
The discusting pus was thick, pink with small whitish cottage cheese like gunk. I was thinking it would be more pus-like. Luckily, it had no odor to it. Anyone with a weak stomach would not have been able to take it. YUK. It just kept coming and coming. I flushed it with a big syringe (no needle) with antiseptic and warm water for about 15 minutes until the gunk stopped coming out.
Now what???? From my description, does this still sound like pigeon fever?
Now what?? Keep flushing? Do I put some antibiotic oint on the abscess hole? or keep putting the ichthammol ointment on it?
thanks all for your recommendations! I'll soon be able to recommend after all of this.
/Mary/Liz
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 9, 2006 - 7:31 pm:
And THAT my friend is exactly why I used the diaper. If you want to contain something gross and disgusting then what better . . . ? You can drizzle betadine and any other drawing agents on it and it will also contain the bacteria which might infect other horses. None of my other horses has ever gotten it.
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 9, 2006 - 8:29 pm:
I did clean up real well, all the gunk was put in bucket, and area bleached.
Too bad I don't have the diaper holster! This diaper would of filled fast with this stuff.
Good idea for the left over drainage tho.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 9, 2006 - 10:41 pm:
YEAH...you are 1/2 way done.. hehehee.. keep flushing it, trying to keep it draining for as long as you can... till the opening is teeny tiny.. oh , when it does start to fill in .. it will look weird.. some skin actually can push out like a finger.. BUT it will go away.. you can keep the ichthammol on it as well..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Lizziem
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Posted on Friday, Mar 10, 2006 - 12:35 am:
Ann- you must have Paints... this horse "Billy" is a beautiful Paint boy. Not alot of color, but just enough.
Thanks for your comments...and others too. your contact helps to know if I am doing right. My out of town vet is coming Saturday to check it out.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Mar 10, 2006 - 8:12 am:
Certainly your description is consistent with Pigeon Fever. For information on taking care of this see, Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Abscesses and Localized Infection.
DrO
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