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  Discussion on Abscess in possible purchase
Author Message
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 8:05 am:

Hello Dr. O,

I am possibly purchasing a TB/Draft cross. When I went to look at him he was slightly sore. The next day he was dead lame. The blacksmith came out, found an abscess, opened it up through the sole and talked about soaks, wrapping it and drainage. Well it is now a week and a half later. The owners had to have the farrier back out because it closed over and stopped draining. They opened it up again and are back on the soaking and draining schedule. The abscess was quite large. The farrier felt that it ran from just behind the toe to almost back to the heal just under the sole.

My question in this. I really like this horse but I am not willing to get into a situation in which I end up purchasing a horse with soundness issues (I've had enough of those).

How do I tell it this is simply an abscess or if it might lead to future troubles?

At what point is he healed enough to say he is better?

What should I be looking for on a prepurchase exam?

Thank you very much!

Ella :-)
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 2, 2006 - 7:00 pm:

Wait until he is dead sound Ella, only then can you know if the horse does not have other problems with the leg or not. This may take 3 or 4 weeks. Drafts can take a bit longer to get well because of difficulties getting good drainage on a horse this big, it hurts and it does not take much for them to take the foot away so don't look at this set back as suspicious. But wait until completely sound to be sure.
DrO
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 8:01 am:

Is an abscess usually just an abscess or do they sometimes abscess because of other issues within the foot?

Thank you for your help!

Ella :-)
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 11:27 am:

I've seen both happen. They say laminitic horses can abscess and i have gone thru abscesses from taking shoes off and keeping them off, but the horse was normally sound. And i have seen abscesses just happen from gravel. So either can happen. I have also seen them blow out in a day and the next the horse is fine, and I have seen one keep my horse lame for a week. But once the drainage starts they were not in enough pain to consider them dead lame. Which means 3 legged. Won't stand on it at all. Plus you have to stay on top of it. and keep it wrapped and poulticed to keep it clean and have nothing cruddy get up there. Are they doing that? How far up did they have to dig?

i would say wait until you truly know what is happening here like Dr. O said.

An x ray might help you in determining if there are other issues at play. Doesn't a rotation in the coffin bone have the ability to create abscesses? I'm sure one is not mutually exclusive to the other, but has this horse ever foundered? What did your farrier say? is it your farrier or the horse owners?

I'm sure there is a great article on this site somewhere regarding pre-purchase exams.. just don't know where....:-)

I wouldn't take the chance, its not like the horse will be sold while its like this anyway.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 12:18 pm:

Usually it is just a single event Ella but imperfections in the sole and wall are the usual cause. Simple examination of the foot for imperfections will tell you if there are chronic problems. For instance if there is a history of founder, as joj describes above, seedy toe should be visible as a stretched white line and black spots of thrush embedded in the white line.
DrO
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 2:27 pm:

I don't plan on purchasing until he is completely sound and I do plan on doing exrays of all 4 views of the feet.

I was told he had never taken a lame step in his life in the 1 1/2 years that they have had him. He is 5 years old. It is the owners farrier. They do not live anywhere near me. I do believe them because the owner is (if possible) even more of a worrier than me.

With a full physical and all 4 views on the exrays will this rule out things that could come back to haunt me later. I know it will rule out rotation in the coffin bone, but anything else?

Ella :-)
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 2:36 pm:

Oh I didn't answer all your questions joj,

He went from dead lame to slightly off within an hour of having the abscess pop. Then about a week later they had to have the farrier out to open it again as it had closed over. I think that they did soaks and wraps for about 3 or 4 days. That is probably why it closed up, they needed to do it longer.

They dug about 3-4 millimeters into the sole. Not too far. It came out with blood and other yucky, smelly stuff.

Ella :-)
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Friday, Mar 3, 2006 - 3:32 pm:

You learn to love those smells... i can smell thrush from 30 paces... :-)


He could just be a big baby. my one horse blew an abscess out her coronary band and i never knew, till it opened. My other mare could see a stone, and start limping and crying and acted like she was dying...

Buying a horse is such a stressor. I would say the more expensive the horse, the more xrays and vetchecks and stress tests you do, BUT there is never any guarentee you will find something that might be a problem in the future. I had a lady pass on my TB, because the vet she called out said there is a likliehood my horse would get OCD in later years. Most TB's off the track either already have it or are genetically predisposed to it. But point is, vet said something and she took it as literal. If she was more knowledgeable on the subject she would have realized she passed up a great horse and that possiblity still hasn't surfaced. She is 12 now. So its always a gamble no matter what you do.

Check out this site. might be helpful.
https://cal.vet.upenn.edu/larad/index/purindx.htm

jojo
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Mar 4, 2006 - 7:23 am:

To try and describe all the possibilities of abnormalities that might show up on a set of radiographs of the foot of the horse requires several hundred pages of description Ella. The menu on diseases of the hoof list many of these problems. The radiographs and physical done by an impartial expert and the horse pronounced sound, no if's, and's, or but's, will go a long ways to prevent future problems but it is not a guarantee.
DrO
Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Saturday, Mar 4, 2006 - 1:15 pm:

Ella,
One more piece of advice, considering the extent of the abscess, I would wait 2-3 weeks AFTER he is sound before I commit to anything. There can be the smallest bit of abscess left and it could take that long to come back.
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Saturday, Mar 4, 2006 - 4:02 pm:

Thanks all,

Dr. O I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't want you to tell me what the exrays might pick up, I know that list might go on forever. I more wanted to know if there might be things in there causing the abscess (and may continue to cause problems)that the exrays would not pick up.


Shelley,

I agree with you as far as waiting several weeks. I am going back to see him when he has been completely sound for the owner to ride several times. I am going by plane and will need to wait a couple of weeks to get a good price on the tickets. So by the time he has been sound for several rides, I order tickets that are several weeks away - get there and still like him (hopefully) and order a vet exam to be completed - I am probably looking at nearly a month from soundness to actual purchase.


Dr. O,

On the above note, how do I go about finding a Vet for the prepurchase that is competent and impartial when it is in a city that I am not familiar with?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Mar 4, 2006 - 5:52 pm:

I think the physical exam more important for iding possible weaknesses in the wall or sole that might predispose to abscesses Ella. Radiography is very limited in it's capability to find such soft tissue problems.

Finding a vet in a far away city is tough. I think I would start by asking your own vet if there is someone he might know in that area, particularly if not too far away. Next would be to try directory services for that area then call and talk with them to find one you are comfortable with. My last choice is to ask for a referral from the owners veterinarian (not the owner themselves).

There use to be a list of all the AAEP member veterinarians on their site that could be searched by location. I went there and could not find it anymore. A quick search on Google for such directories was disappointing and yielded results that required registration but you might give it a try as a last result. Other members might know where such a search engine exists.
DrO
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Sunday, Mar 5, 2006 - 8:25 pm:

Thanks Dr. O and others,

I will let you know how it goes. He is a big quiet guy who is scared of nothing. He has been through police training and was in a parade as a 3 year old behind a fire engine with the siren going. He didn't even care. I like that - hopefully he is o.k.!

Ella :-)
Member:
Canter

Posted on Monday, Mar 6, 2006 - 7:29 am:

Ella,
Perhaps if you post the town in which the horse is, a HA member might live near by and can recommend a vet?

Just a thought...
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Monday, Mar 6, 2006 - 8:46 am:

It is Louisville Kentucky. Horse country!

Ella :-)
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