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Discussion on Pony with Cushings/IR has pain
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Member:
Bluedog1
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 9:21 am:
(I thought I posted this already, but didn't see it anywhere, so I'm trying again..)
I have a 20 year old pony mare with Cushings/IR. She was diagnosed 2 years ago and after the stable hands dumped my expensive pergolide twice, I switched her to ground Chaste Tree Berry (Vitex). I also add chromium, magnesium and Vit E, and MSM to her diet. She eats grass hay and 3/4 pound of Buckeye GroNWin. We give her timothy hay cubes as treats. She has been doing great and her blood levels are close to and sometimes WITHIN normal range. She has awesome bare feet and has never had laminitis or founder (knock on wood!) My vet was very pleased with her condition last time she saw her (Jan 06) I usually don't give her anything for her joints. Lately she has been very "creaky" especailly in her right shoulder and the farrier confirmed that she seemed stiff, not easily being able to put her foot on the stand. She also loves a good roll, and lately looks like she is going to, then changes her mind. I'm guessing she feels pretty uncomfortable. She is going sound under saddle and is ridden about 5-6 hours per week, 2-3 of those are lessons involving low jumps (x's up to 2').
My question is (finally!): What is the safest thing to give her for joint health and/or inflammation. I have heard that Glucosamine Sulfate can induce IR so I hesitate to give it to her. Would appreciate your opinion.
My other concern is that she seems to have gained weight over the past 2 weeks, which seems to coincide with the tiny bits of grass starting to grow in her paddock. The paddock is mostly mud right now, but you can see the green coming through.
I will be changing her turnout situation to get away from the grass, but I thought I'd mention it in case it might have some relevance to her stiffness.
I included a picture of Dakotah taken March 29, 2006
Thank you so much, your opinion is much appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 8:33 pm:
We recommend oral glucosamine for IR horses with arthritis because the amount given is so small compared to the dietary carbohydrates even in restricted diets.
DrO
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Member:
Bluedog1
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 10:21 pm:
Thanks very much Dr. O! The vet came out and she flexed positive in her fetlock, but seemed ok in the shoulder. We are giving her a few days of bute and no riding. I will see how she does in a few days, and will start her on joint supplement. I am considering giving her adequan instead..what do you think?
PS: This is an amazing site, thank you so much for taking the time to answer SO MANY questions.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 7:19 am:
We review and compare both of these and other products at Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » The Joint Protective Treatments.
Rereading your first post gave me pause: you have a horse with a fairly acute onset of stiffness. Are you certain this is not mild founder? Usually arthritis first presents as lameness referable to a single leg.
DrO
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Member:
Bluedog1
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 8:59 am:
Her first symptoms that I became a little concerned about was how much cracking she made when she walked, especially from her right shoulder. Usually I hear it once in a while. I mentioned it to her farrier as she was trimming her and she did confirm that she was quite resistant to lift that right front foot up on to the stand.
I then called the massage therapist, thinking she was a little stiff and sore (she is 20 and gets ridden quite a bit)and could benefit from a massage. The massage therapist wanted the vet to check her out first to make sure massage or manipulation wouldn't be harmful.
I called the vet, she didn't think it was her shoulder, but she flexed positive in the right front fetlock. I mentioned to her that I was a little concerned with how much weight she has put on in a short period of time and mentioned the grass is starting to come up. She didn't seem that concerned and wanted to check her blood in a month when the grass was really growing.
We were told to give her 1/2 gram bute twice daily for 2-3 days and see how she does.
The massage therapist came out the day after the vet and said she felt pretty good, but she thought the mare reacted to flexion of all four fetlocks, not just the rf. She also said there was a very slight digital pulse and slight warmth.
I am a little confused by the different findings. I will side with the vet, although my equine massage therapist is extremely well educated in equine anatomy and mechanics.
After a few days of bute, I put her on the lunge line yesterday and she seemed sound, but she was never off (to my eye anyway). I guess I am confused how a horse can flex positive, but seem sound.
Dakotah has never had laminitis or founder and I know she is predisposed to these terrible things so I may worry too much about little things.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 6:53 am:
The problem I see is that neither cracking sounds from the joints nor flexion tests are diagnostic for a lameness problem and the most common cause for a stiff walk is either founder or tying up. Horses that have founder do not like to lift their feet either as it puts excessive weight on the opposite foot. So I have not yet seen a logical explanation for your the problem you describe. For more on all this see Equine Diseases » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse.
DrO
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Member:
Mosttime
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 9, 2006 - 8:14 pm:
Dr. O,
I have read a couple places now statements insinuating some worsening of Cushings with supplementation of glucosamine. Is there any basis for this? I use IM injectable glucosamine 10 cc's per week in my 21 year old Cushinoid TB. He is in generally good health otherwise and doing higher level dressage.
Thanks, Carole
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Apr 10, 2006 - 8:13 am:
No basis. I am afraid Cushings is progressive whether you use glucosamine or not.
DrO
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Member:
Mosttime
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Posted on Monday, Apr 10, 2006 - 7:52 pm:
Thank you Dr. O!
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