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Discussion on VERY sore feet after trim - need advice please
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 2:39 pm:
Hi All,
I had my mare's feet trimmed on Saturday (04.01.06), by a new farrier whom I had been told was very good, and could do a natural/4-point trim. Yeah right.
Anyway, now my horse is so sore, she can hardly walk, four days later. Her front feet seem to be in the most pain. She stands camped out, and when she does walk, she crosses her feet one in front of the other. She's just miserable. This farrier took ALOT of sole off, and exposed some bruises on her front toes.
I had this farrier look at her feet, because my previous farrier wouldn't listen to what I was trying to say, and continued to trim them wrong, to the point that her heels were becoming contracted, the white line was starting to stretch and separate, and her foot was extremely unbalanced from outside to inside.
The new farrier took care of the separation, and balanced her feet, but at the expense of taking off too much sole (in my opinion). So, now I'm left with a crippled horse.
I've read the article associated with treating bruised/sore feet, and am soaking her feet in epsom salts, am giving her bute, and have wrapped her legs for support.
My question is this. Is there anything else I can do for her to alleviate the pain, and get her back to rideable condition? We are conditioning for an endurance ride, and if I'd have know this trim was going to cripple her, I wouldn't have done it.
In everything I've read so far, several people have painted bleach, or betadine, or formaldehyde on the feet. Now, when this is done, are the feet wrapped to keep the solution on? If so, how long do I keep the feet wrapped?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Nicole
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 3:55 pm:
Nicole,
Have you thought about horse boots? Old Macs, Boa, Simple Boots, all would help her. Leilani
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Member:
Liliana5
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 4:25 pm:
Hi Nocole,
Just want to mention something from past experience, farries do not want you to tell them what to do, you were right in finding someone else if you were not happy but, if they do wrong they can always say "you told me to" so perhaps just watch them and direct them in a very extremely polite and a bit goofy like way. I sound like a Sargent when I speak so I do not know if may be is a bit like that with you. Once they get to know me they know I am harmless. And yes may be boots could be the answer and Dr. O will probably tell you if there is something you can put on them to harden them up, I've heard bleach or thinner some times works I have never used it my self but...
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 5:49 pm:
Hi Nicole, Before the farrier I have now, several farriers trimmed my horses too short. What really helped was to get a chunk of foam insulation, the hard thick stuff about 1/2 inch thick, i think,and cut it to shape the bottom of your mares feet, then I duct taped the pad on his feet. This alleviated the pain for my boy so he could walk in comfort.
Good Luck. It is so frustrating to find a good farrier, been there!
suz
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 6:16 pm:
Once the horse can handle a shoe what works wonders is putting a rim pad on and then adding a full pad over it and filling it full of silicone. The rim pad acts as extra hoof wall and the full pad and silicone protect the sore feet.
Ella 
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Member:
Liliana5
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 6:44 pm:
It always amazes me how resourceful one becomes around horses, wrap a bag of frozen peas round the leg for swelling and Susan duct tape some foam wow that really will come handy I am sure. I wish I thought of that 2 years ago when I had a similar problem!
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Member:
Savage
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 9:27 pm:
Nicole, I feel so sad for your baby, putting shavings or something soft like that in her stall will help her as well.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 10:12 pm:
Our vet gives me something he calls "hoof paint," which is basically turpentine with some things (unkown to me) added to it. It really solves the problems of sore feet from either trimming, or being too wet.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 7:24 am:
Sole paints are not typically bandaged over. Other than the recommendations in the article, which are reiterated in the recommendations above, patience is key Nicole.
DrO
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 8:20 am:
usually vets have a concoction of pine tar, formaldyhyde and iodine. It's the formaldehyde that you have to get from the vet in those sole paints. I was supposed to run and get some too. But i'm not sure if it adds sole. just helps harden up what is there.
Like Dr. O said time is the only answer really. i wouldn't do anything different either. meaning don't put the horse on shavings if you don't already, etc.
Next time you need to tell him to go slower. He did too much in trying to correct the mistakes of the other farrier. and like you said probably took off too much sole. but even lowering the heels or opening them up would make the horse looked camped out. you just want to shoot them sometimes.
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 9:15 am:
I saw a Clinton Anderson show the other day and he had Pete Ramey on there talking about natural hoof care. I'll admit Pete is the first 'natural hoof' farrier I've seen that I can agree with. He requires his new clients to buy boots for the first trim (buys them back after the foot is established), even though he goes slow for the first few trims. And that's the part I agree with the most, I wouldn't have a farrier trim my horses twice that practices the 'hack everything off and let them suffer' method.
The problem here is the first farrier was trimming incorrectly. The trim, except for the roll, for shoes and barefoot is the same and a good farrier won't over trim.
So put boots on and keep looking for a good farrier. If the title 'natural hoof care' is important to you there is an organization that Pete Ramey is part of which might be a good starting point.
Good day,
Alden (honorary tech guy )
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 10:54 am:
Hey, Alden, (HTG),
I have been studying and using Pete Ramey's methods for the past couple of years, and I am really impressed with what I see in my horses and in the other horses I trim. I have seen angles improve, even on two club-footed horses who have had severe lameness issues. His love of the horse is the the key. His book is invaluable, and I would love to see the tape. We don't get RFD right now, and I didn't spring for the DVD/video, and while I'd like to view the video, I have seen very positive results just from using the techniques explained and shown (photos) in the book.
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 11:43 am:
Thank you to everyone for your advice and recommendations. Last night I went to the hardware store and got some 1 1/2" thick styrofoam and duct taped it to the bottom of Roheryn's feet. It did provide her some relief, she was able to walk around a little easier. I do understand that patience is the key, but I feel so awful for letting this happen.
Dr. O. thanks for answering the question about the sole paints. Do I have to get betadine from a vet? Someone else also recommended keratex to toughen her hooves, would that work too? The farrier put keratex in an abcess one time, but I don't know if it would be okay to put on the whole sole.
After the first farrier screwed up Roheryn's feet, I decided I'd do my own trimming. Well, that brought up a whole bunch of criticism from a lady I know, the one who recommended this latest farrier. For the first time in my life I was called an incompetent horseperson, and that I didn't have the right to be trimming my own horses. The only thing I could say to her was that every time I did my own trimming, my horse was never sore. After the fact, I asked if any of her horses ended up lame after a trim, she said well, yeah, it's normal. She said she's got a horse that has been sore for 10 DAYS. I was shocked. She totally thinks it's normal for a horse to be that sore. I just think it's cruel!
Anyway, I just feel awful now for not following my own gut, and just doing it myself. I've now tried every single farrier available in my area, and all of them have done something to cripple my horse. So, I think from now on, I'm just going to do it myself. I've purchased Pete Ramey's book, it should be here this week.
I have measured Roheryn's feet, and will purchase some easyboots, so that I can start back conditioning.
Nicole
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 5:41 pm:
Alden and Holly,
I just received Pete Ramey's book. I have asked my farrier if he is willing to try something else on my young mare. I'll read it first and then pass on to him. At least he is open to new stuff, plus my vet may be hosting a farrier clinic in December with Gene Ovnicek and my farrier really wants to be there. Leilani
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 5:53 pm:
Great, Leilani. I don't think you'll be disappointed in the way the book is written or the results you see from following the recommendations. I have heard of Gene O. but don't know what he proposes for trimming. Jaime Jackson is Pete's mentor, I think. Acutally, Pete has kinda developed his own methods through lots of study, trial and error, and the trimming of thousands of horses. I love the anecdote about his wife's carriage drafts and how they only go barefoot now . . . really amazing.
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 6, 2006 - 10:06 pm:
Well, looks like you all are ahead of me on the subject of Pete Ramey. I intend to get his book some time this spring, his RFDTV show was just an overview and didn't get into many details.
Nicole, don't be too hard on yourself. I can't count the number of times I didn't follow my gut feeling and regretted it. Thankfully horses bounce back and are forgiving to boot I guess we know who deserves a bunch of criticism now, it's just plain wrong that the average horse person can't learn to trim. In fact being able to balance a little here and little there every couple weeks is much better than big trims at 6-8 weeks. Horses get better about having their feet worked on also; it gets to be routine. There are also good reasons to pay someone. I have a hard time getting my 6'4" frame under a 15h horse so I prefer to pay someone most the time .
Post a few updates to your on going education.
Good day,
Alden (HTG)
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 7, 2006 - 7:42 am:
Betadine (povidone) is available at every drug stores in the first aid section.
DrO
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Monday, Apr 10, 2006 - 4:53 pm:
Thought I'd update everyone on Roheryn. I took her to the vet last Friday, because she just didn't seem to be getting better, even with the betadine paint, epsom salt soaks, and bute every day.
Good news is, it's not in her feet. The vet used a hoof tester to all four feet, and none of them were sensitive. YAY!
But, because the farrier changed the angles of all four feet in one trim, her whole body is sore because she's using different muscles in different ways. So, the vet gave her Robaxin to relax her muscles, as well as Ketoprofen.
I also have to give her bute until she's not sore anymore, and keep her moving, to loosen up those muscles.
Thanks everyone for you advice and help! This horse holds a very special place in my heart, and I was just so disgusted with myself putting her through that.
Nicole
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 - 7:44 am:
Hmmmmmm....I don't know Nicole the above description of being "camped out" I associate strongly with hoof pain in the front. And quite frankly I don't see generalized muscle pain with changes in angles even when remarkable: was there a tendinitis? Is this horse remarkable out of a-p balance now or was she before the trim?
On the good side it may speak that there is not any bruising but I would continue to be careful with those feet. It is just a matter of time before they get well if you do not bruise them. If you want a diagnostic tip you can do at home: if the horse gets shorter over hard ground and moves freer over soft ground it probably is the feet. I walk them across the grass and on to the driveway then back off to look for change.
DrO
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 - 6:58 pm:
See, that's what I was thinking too, DrO. I wouldn't think she'd stand camped out if her body was sore. From all I've read and seen in past experiences, a horse camps out to get pressure off their toes.
Roheryn now only seems to be foot sensitive when she steps on a rock. (Last week, she was in pain when she walked at all). I have done that home diagnostic thing that you mentioned. She short strides for a couple steps when moving from soft ground to hard, but then her strides become normal.
She no longer camps out and I can get her to walk and really stretch out in her paddock (which is very hard, packed down dirt).
I read the articles on tendonitis, and I don't know. I noticed last night that there was some swelling on back side of her front legs, on the cannon bone. Her legs were not hot, and the swelling was not uniform, just a little "puffy" in a couple spots. Does that make sense? It's hard to describe, I'll take some pictures tonight.
When the farrier trimmed, he did expose some bruises on her front feet, on the toes. How do I keep her feet from getting any more bruises? I am taking it very careful with her, because I don't want to cause anymore problems. Is it okay to hand walk her on hard ground?
Before the trim, her feet were very unbalanced from inside to outside (on all four feet, the inside heel was longer than the outside heel). Would that cause her back to be so sore? Or should I be looking at some other reason for her sore back?
Thanks for your help!
Nicole
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 - 7:05 am:
There was no history of prior lameness so I would consider such "red spots" as normal. You see them often in horses with white feet. There are there in dark feet too you just cannot see them. I guess you could put on pads but this will just weaken the sole overall.
Since I cannot examine her I cannot make such specific judgements on exercise levels. In general if it bothers her I would not do it, if it doesn't its OK.
You should be looking elsewhere and perhaps you should read our article on diagnosing sore backs, Equine Diseases » Lameness » Diseases of the Spine, Back & Pelvis » Lower Back Pain in Horses.
DrO
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Monday, Apr 24, 2006 - 5:54 pm:
Well, it has been just over three weeks since Roheryn's trim, and she is almost back to normal. She still seems to be ouchy when walking over very rocky ground, but I can handle that, I can just put easyboots on her when we do really rocky riding.
I rode her last night for about 1 1/2 hours, and her back was not sore when we were finished, and her legs and feet were fine this morning.
I'm so relieved to have my riding partner back! Thank you Dr.O. and everyone who offered suggestions and advice.
Nicole
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