This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Mouth, Esophagus, and Liver » Disorders of the Mouth and Teeth »
  Discussion on Very dry mouth
Author Message
New Member:
Ponymom4

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 8:45 am:

Perhaps its considered within "normal" range, but my daughter's TB has a very dry mouth, much more so than our other horses, and makes very little saliva, never any foam while being worked; He is coming 9, but had not much true education when we got him a yr ago; he has evented at Training level, but is still resistant in flat work; for all the training put into him over the past yr, he hasn't made much progress with relaxation/seeking contact with bit; vet has seen him- he is not sore anywhere- just had a hock injected for very mild arthritis, so that has been taken care of. He had big hooks on molars, which an equine dentist took down with power tools last Sept.; Acceptance of the bit has been an issue for him, he avoids contact if possible- even with a mild Nathe bit or KK double jointed bit; he has been ridden by good trainers, and with kind hands always; another thing he does is "grimice" showing teeth while being ridden most of the time, and cross his jaw while untacked and on cross ties;
I feel like we are missing something...and wonder if lack of salivation could cause mouth discomfort> causing tension> causing resistance, etc.;has been never scoped, ?ulcers?
Member:
Dres

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 10:36 am:

Karen, try putting a sugar cube or peppermint in his mouth while riding.. that might help with the dry mouth..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
New Member:
Ponymom4

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 2:12 pm:

he's a funny horse- doesn't like sugar cubes; the peppermints he eats never seemed to increase the saliva...we've even wrapped the bit with a "fruit roll up" - no lipstick, no softening of jaw ...
Member:
Ilona

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 3:48 pm:

You may want to try him on a bitless bridle. There is a thread somewhere on HA discussing different people's experiences with this particular bitless bridle. He may well be a different horse. www.bitlessbridle.com
My TWH behaves very differently on a cross tie versus any variety of hitch tie. It must have something to do with experiences from his previous owners. I've had him 4 years now and he trusts me implicitly, however there is a difference in his acceptance of handling when tied in these 2 different environments. None of the other horses show this oddity.
Member:
Canter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 4:31 pm:

Karen, you may have to take him way back in his training, as if he were a young horse being taught to soften on the bit for the first time...literally start over with him.

I think I remember seeing advertised copper? bits that supposedly horses like the taste of and it encourage chewing. I'm not entirely sure I got the copper part right, so someone, please correct me. I would have seen the ad in either Practical Horseman or Dressage Today. If you have either handy, flip through the ads. I'm sorry I can't get more specific than that.
Member:
Oakfarm

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 7:35 pm:

well, I've had horses like the OP's..and the avenues to explore that have proven successful are mostly common sense.

Horses that are dry mouth,etc., are horses that are not using their bodies in a useful, tension-free way..the 'chewing of the bit' is an action that happens whether or not the bit is in the mouth--it is is just proof that the horse is using its body (it has a physical basis,and good training merely proves that the rider/trainer has not destroyed the horse's reaction).

What I do with horses like this is...make sure the tack is comfortable for the horse; put a cavesson or halter on over the bridle, and longe the horse over poles until it starts to swing in its back and use its head/neck correctly by rounding over the topline. Walk, if necessary, for a while, before trotting/cantering over a few poles, set at proper distances. Or start with one pole, which is what I do.

When I ride these horses, I usually add a jumping hackamore or mechanical hackamore over the bridle, and ride off the hackamore rein (bridle rein there for emergencies, ha ha) until the horse is happier in its responses.

If you know it had tooth problems, it might not be a bad idea to have a competent vet check his mouth again, because there could be a lingering problem there that got missed last year.

anyway, good luck!
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 - 12:17 am:

I would doubt that lack of salivation is the cause, but the bit that Fran spoke of is the sweet iron bit. You said that he has evented, so my question would be: how is he at the cross country and stadium jumping? What kind of behaviour does he exhibit there?
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 - 11:06 am:

Hey All
Copper mouth bits are different from what is called "sweet iron"! Sweet iron are bits that will rust with time, causing them to be somewhat, to very caustic, which causes the mouth to salivate and soften They are somewhat rough and are used for a "hard mouthed" horse. The copper bits are smooth and less irritating, in my experience. I have used the copper mouthed bits with some success, but have not actually used the "sweet iron" on any of my personal horses, though I've seen them use on some!
Hope this helps you some, Karen!
Nancy
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 - 11:10 am:

... oops, to explain that IM MY EXPERIENCE, "sweet iron"is not the terminology used to describe a copper bit! Lee may be right. Just did not want you to get the wrong bit, in case someone understood the terms the way that I do.
Again, Nancy
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Friday, Apr 28, 2006 - 11:07 pm:

Yes, Nancy, copper and "sweet iron" bits are different. The "sweet iron" are supposed to rust, and, theoretically, help draw saliva. I've never used the "sweet iron", and with the copper, I really have no opinion. I tend to use the bit that allows my hands to perform at their lightest.

There could be different things in play with the horse described. There could be something physical, but the fact that the horse is nearly 9 with little training is important. He was presumably ridable 1 yr. ago, when the owner got him. Now, if he wasn't trained, yet he was ridden, what kind of riding was taking place and how much of that needs to be trained out, before rudimentary proper formal training can begin? Then, they can't just be ridden and asked to shorten their frame with the proper aids until they are taught what frame and balance mean. As for the aids, they must be put on the horse starting with ground training or they are meaningless to the horse. If this was a 9 yr old green broke horse, 1 yr. is not much time at all.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 - 9:49 am:

Hey Lee
We agree after all ... Your last post says a lot!
You express yourself much better than I do on the computer! Karen is getting some great advice.
Nancy
New Member:
Ponymom4

Posted on Saturday, Apr 29, 2006 - 11:04 am:

thanks for all your comments; I'm sure it is largely a training/tension thing, a learning curve for him for sure; we are always watching for medical/physical reasons for the resistance- which is prob partly conformation based, but had also wondered if there were any "medical" reasons that cause a decrease in salivation (as red clover causes increase & slobber...); he does produce a TINY amt with a copper bit; I think he is one that will be two steps forward, one step backwards for awhile...and will take a long time to make up correctly.
New Member:
Ponymom4

Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:50 pm:

well, horse had a gastroscopy which revealed grade 2 ulcers; he has now been on ulcerguard and after being on the med for about 5 days we noticed he was producing saliva! Mouth was wet, and generally more relaxed under saddle, allowing contact, leg and being sat on;
would like to know if others with horses with ulcers have noted dry mouths? maybe this would be an easy/accurate way to assess, at least with some horses, whether the ulcers are healed or re-occuring;
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 2:49 am:

Hey, hey, Karen, welcome to the ulcer club! It's not a fun club, is it? Still, it's an answer - and a curable one.

I think, Karen, that the dry mouth might have something to do with the pain. Good luck!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:44 am:

Somehow this discussion got under my radar, I apologize for the late response. Hmmm...no I have not seen where ulcers cause decreased salivation but perhaps this could be explained the other way around: saliva is an important buffer of stomach acid. But that does not explain the improvement perhaps this is a drug side effect? It will be interesting to see if the salivation continues beyond discontinuing the omeprazole.

In all cases however be sure besides just medical treatment you manage for the resolution and prevention of recurrence. For more see, Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Gastric Ulcers.
DrO
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC