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Discussion on Septic Foal
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New Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 9:02 pm:
Hello, we have a foal born yesterday morning. He was difficult to start nursing and was given IGG orally (entire bottle). He since has nursed and gulps when he does - he can't stand on his own as his mom stepped on a leg and we think this is the problem when we get him up he then nurses fine. This morning our vet came and gave him gentamyacin, lactated ringers, bag of vit b (something else maybe but it was a red color and the vet said vit b), banamine, and determined he is septic. We are going to take him to the University of Illinois to try and save him but really I would love some input here as to what kind of chances he has.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 10:20 pm:
Welcome Susan,
Sorry to meet you over so tough a situation. Unfortunately the information you provide does not help us determine what your foals chances are. Of course all foal septicemia is a serious problem but the prognosis will depend on the foals clinical condition. We give some general guidelines in the article and the devil is always in the details but I would say as long as he is actively nursing there is a fair to good chance. As most of these infections are mixed, I would recommend that procaine penicillin be used in combination with the gentamycin.
DrO
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New Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 12:38 am:
Thank you Dr.O,
I will keep you posted on how he does at UofI, we are hoping that since he does still nurse that we have a chance, he is very weak tonight as he is on his journey to the hospital - we have him in the van with us and mom is in the trailer. We felt it would be best in a blanket and less bouncing around.
We are hoping we did not lose the window of opportunity to get him help. It is terrible that money had to play a part in our decision but when the estimate to save him is between 4 and 6,000 dollars it does have a significant bearing on whether you are able to do the best thing for the colt.
We appreciate your reply and will keep you updated!
Susan
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Member:
Qh4me
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 9:18 am:
I am praying for a positive outcome Susan. All the best for the little guy.
And welcome to HA!
Shawna
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New Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 10:10 am:
Thank you, we have named him 'Twister' in the hopes that he rallies with the strength of a twister. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being the worst) the vet at UofI said he is at least an 8. Have not talked to them this a.m. yet but will keep up the updates as I learn more.
Susan
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Member:
Canyon28
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 11:45 am:
I had a foal born two weeks ago to an old mare, my favorite. She had edema so bad that the foal could not get to her udder, so I milked her and gave him milk through the night, but he still didnt get enough and became weak by the second day, his Igg was 400. She is a heavy milker, so it was not a problem of not enough milk, it was that I didnt give him enough. It also turned out that my mare had a uterine artery tear and slowly bled to death. She began convulsing just as we got them to the stall at my vets, where he was going to treat my foal. She had to be put down immediately. My foal received a liter of plasma taken from Belgian horses, which are recognized as universal donors. He was also started on genticyn(spelling), and came around immediately. However the penecillium and the gent was not given long enough to do the job, only three days.The vet thought he looked so good he took him off the antibiotics. After I took him home, he again became weak after a day or two and I had to take him back to the vet in the middle of the night. He was again give a liter of Plasma and started on Naxel and he came right around again and has not relapsed and his joints look great. I have kept him on the Naxel for 10 days, this was the last day of the injections. I will keep you posted if he again relapses after the antibiotics are discontinued, but I think in the past ten days the plasma and the antibiotics he received should have given him the antibodies and the time to become healthy. I am not sure how your foal could have become so septic in just one day if you were making sure he was nursing. My vet did tell me that the foals system can only absorb the colostrum for about 12 hours, even though the mare may continue to produce colostrum for 24 hours. So it is of the greatest importance to make sure the foal gets at least a liter of colostrum milk before 12 hours have passed. I thought I had given my foal enough, I was feeding him every hour through that first night, but it was not quite enough and too much time elapsed and the window had closed. I had thought the window was 18 hours, but I was mistaken. My colt is a real fighter and is all very old foundation AQHA lines and double bred Cutter Bill. Hope your foal can be saved. I have about $2000 into my foal right now with all the vet bills for the two emergencies and also the feeding by a tech through the nights he was at the vets was expensive. If the vet had just continued the original antibiotics for a full 7 to 10 days, I dont think I would have had the second emergency.
My colt is doing great right now and has really gotten a lot more energy over the past three days or so. I think he looks like a normal two week old foal, so all of his problems havent set him back. I am feeding him Mares Match by Land o Lakes right now and then will switch him to the Buckeye mares milk replacer in a week or so, it can be left out for long periods of time without souring. Chris www.canyonrimranch.net
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 6:28 pm:
Susan, please do keep us updated on your foal. It is heart rending to deal with a weak, ill foal after they are born with so much hope and promise.
Chris - just a side note. Cutter Bill used to live near my parents' place in Texas. He was an awesome horse!
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New Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 9:50 pm:
Thank you and I will. No marked improvement at this point waiting for a call yet tonight for an update I hope!
Susan
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 11:09 pm:
Is he still nursing on his own Susan?
DrO
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 7:18 pm:
DrO
WOW today is a GOOD day, Twister is not only still nursing ...... He stood up BY HIMSELF - unassisted for the first time!!!! Also they took him off the IV's and his blood and renal panel looked good except he seems to be having some trouble regulating his blood glucose levels but they said they think it is part of him being septic.
They said they feel he is at least 50% improved from when he arrived but cautioned they can go the other way quickly. they said that his joints are palpating good at this time he is 4 days old this morning!!!!
Thank you for asking,
Susan
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 7:19 pm:
DrO,
Forgot to mention they had to splint his rear leg (I am sure you noticed the paciliar stance) he had a contracted tendon and they took the splint off today too!
Susan
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, May 6, 2006 - 12:07 am:
This sounds really encouraging! So glad.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 6, 2006 - 7:36 am:
Very good Susan!
DrO
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Saturday, May 6, 2006 - 11:43 pm:
Good luck with your little one, Susan. He sure is a looker. I'm looking out my window right now at my mare who was born on May 2.....1980....and wishing your little guy all the good years that she has had.
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 6:26 pm:
Thank you but some bad news yesterday he started having fluid on the joints, they said they flushed him and put anitbiotics in there but that if it comes back they would repeat it once more but if it came back a third time they are going to recommend we uthenize him. Kind of difficult to be up beat.
Susan
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 7:20 pm:
Just heard from UofI and they had to tend to other joints today but the rear hock so far stayed down from the treatment yesterday. I don't know what to think they are not saying much, very guarded about him.
Susan
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 7:20 pm:
Susan,
All the luck in the world to you.
Kathleen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 7:38 am:
Susan was the joint painful and hot and what was the fluid's characteristics like?
DrO
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 12:00 pm:
I will find that out. I was only told that they had to flush and they didn't mention the characteristics. They did say that yesterday he didn't get up as good as he has been and they felt it was because his joints hurt.
Susan
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:25 am:
DrO,
I finally got word back and here is what I have learned - today they seemed more optimistic but still guarded:
The joints were not painful or hot, but warm and the first time they flushed fluid was cloudy and contained wbc's since that first incident the fluid has been clear and did not contain wbc's also - they said there is still swelling in the joints but if he continues to improve as he is at this time may even come home this weekend.
Thank you everyone for the encouragement.
susan
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:40 am:
Sounds like good news, Susan . . . Hoping for the best.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:01 am:
Sounds like you dodged a bullet there Susan, glad to hear things are on the mend.
DrO
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:08 am:
DrO,
You had asked about the pain, heat and fluid characteristics, I did find out the vet's response to those questions and would like to hear your feedback regarding that please.
Thank you for all the supportive feedback.
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:34 pm:
DrO,
We got some more bad news today Twister is lame on a rear leg with the coffin bone being the location - they are going to knock him out and do a more thorough flush. Also they stated that he was rattly in the throat and are concerned he has pneumonia.
600-700 for tonight's procedure I am concerned that all this is going to be for naught - the up and down of this is maddening - yesterday they thought he could come home soon now this news.
They are going to run a culture and flush his throat but said the culture wont come back for 3-5 days.
Susan
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:52 pm:
oh Susan... my heart goes out to you and the mare...
sending best wishes from N.CA...
On the first day God created horses , on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 9:14 pm:
Susan,
We'll keep our fingers crossed that this is just a small setback and soon Twister will be home.
Luck,
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:15 pm:
Oh, Susan...I'm so sorry. It seemed like things were looking up. Poor little thing! I hope this procedure goes o.k.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 8:47 am:
I am sorry for not being more specific. Joints that are hot and painful have a worse prognosis because of increased risk of arthritis. The milder changes they noted were a sign that things may have not gotten that bad. That is the reason for my comment about dodging a bullet.
It is disheartening to hear of further complications but not unusual for sick babies to have a series of such complications but as you would figure each sequential complication worsens the prognosis.
DrO
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Member:
Mydanes
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Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:43 pm:
DrO and everyone with all their support, I am sorry to say that Twister was put down yesterday and we donated his body to UofI they said he could prove to help some colt in the future. Yesterday the canon bone was much worse hot, lame, very sore, and a lot of ifusion in many other locations. THey said they would continue but his chance to survive went dramatically down with the developments. It was a TERRIBLE choice but the right one.
Thank you again,
Susan
ps when Rain (mare) came home today she was in foal heat and our gelding who NEVER bothered her before has been running around mounting her but not actually breeding of course. I hope this is a fad and not a persistant behavior every heat.
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Member:
Oakfarm
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Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:56 pm:
You absolutely made the right choice. The difficult choice. The responsible choice. The loving choice.
Twister was allowed to go in dignity and peace, over Rainbow Bridge, where he can run and play again and tell everyone that HIS humans loved him enough to try to help him get better-- and loved him enough to let him go.
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:59 pm:
So sorry youl had to make that decision. We had to do that with a yearling filly who had severe nerve damage, the uninjured leg couldn't hold up to the weight it had to bear. We were sick. However, it was the right thing to do.
Now, I would suggest you take the mare out and not let the gelding continue this behavior. You could get one of them hurt. I would separate them until she goes out of heat and then separate in the future if you need to if she is in heat.
EO
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 7:39 pm:
Sorry for you loss of Twister. You certainly gave him a fighting chance, and did all you could. A very difficult decision, our condolences
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:09 pm:
I am sad to hear of your foal's death, Susan . . .
To put down a horse, especially a young one for which you had many hopes,is never an easy thing.
If more can be learned to save other foals with similar problems, that will be a good thing.
Take care.
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 1:07 am:
Bless you for your determination....and bless the little foal for his gift of knowledge. This combination best represents the situations that do the most to advance knowledge and understanding in equine research. Thank you.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:06 am:
My deepest condolences Susan. While babies are sick, hours seem like days and days like weeks, then to have such an outcome... but things will get better now.
DrO
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Member:
Canyon28
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Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:05 pm:
Susan, I am so sorry to hear that your foal had to end up being put down, but I think you made the right choice. We have to think of the severity of the problem and the quality of life that the foal might have had if he had survived the septic joints, they would most likely have been damaged for life. Sometimes the best care in the world and all of the money in the world will not fix the problem and we have to let go and do what is best for the animal. I am the owner of the orphan foal that did survive becoming septic without it getting into his joints and he is doing wonderfully and will be a month old this coming Tues!. I still havent named him yet, I think of him as my miracle foal, its a miracle he is alive and doing so well. I did take some pictures of him yesterday and he seems to look about average for his age and bloodlines.He is going to be a golden palomino, his mane is starting to grow out white now and his undercoat is golden, not red. Chris www.canonrimranch.net
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:40 am:
I'm so sorry Susan (((hugs))) to you...
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:04 pm:
That is very sad news about Twister, Susan. Losing a little one is so awfully tough. You have my deepest sympathies.
Sue
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Member:
Qh4me
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:13 pm:
I am very sorry for your loss Susan. It is so hard to make that decision, but it was the right choice for all, and even though it is a tough time now, you and Twister will help other foals in the future.
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Member:
Peggyr
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:20 pm:
I am sorry to hear about your loss Susan. You've made the right decision and Twister is in a better place now.
Peggy
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:32 am:
How sad that you lost the long battle for your lovely boy. I'm so sorry.
Lynn
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:40 am:
So very sorry. 
-Barbara
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:50 am:
Such sad news, Susan. You made a heroic effort to save your little Twister - I hope you find comfort in knowing you did everything you could to save him but graciously let him go when it was time.
Fran
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:20 pm:
Susan, I'm so sorry. I hope UofI can learn something that will help others so some good can come from the difficult struggle you and the foal both have been through.
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