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  Discussion on Diagnosing possible Enterolith
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Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 8:22 am:

Our 19 yr. old mare went to the vet yesterday morning with what appeared to be mild colic. She had a similar episode this past New Year's eve day. She was just not interested in breakfast, and had been lying down. Yesterday a.m. it looked a bit worse than the first episode and when I went in the barn she was lying out flat and kind of moaning. It also looked like she'd been pacing a lot and had rolled.

At the vet's her heart rate and respiration rate was slightly elevated. She had low grade fever both times. She was passing stool, and when tubed nasally, there was some gas but not a lot. Yesterday blood work was done, but the results won't be back until late this afternoon at the earliest.

After being seen by the vet yesterday I almost took her home, but he suggested I leave her so he could observe her. Around 4p.m. he called me and said he'd like to keep her overnight as there was something just not right. I just received a call this morning at 5:30a.m. saying she seemed to be in a lot of pain even though two hours earlier she had seemed fine. At 5:30a.m she was sweating heavily, pacing and rolling. He gave her Banamine and something else (sorry, it didn't register as I was still half asleep.) He is thinking she may have an enterolith, but without complete blockage. The other options would be possible something with her liver or an other organ, but we couldn't know that until blood work comes back. Her only other symptom is that she seems "ouchy" in her flank area.

Does this sound like an enterolith? Would she have had more colic episodes if it were? Would ulcers present this way? Aside from tearing her ACL on her knee, she's always been very healthy. She had one very mild episode of colic several years ago; I walked her, she passed stool, and then was fine. That is the only other time she's had even a mild colic.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 9:32 am:

Sorry to hear about your mare, Sara. No advice, just good wishes for a good outcome,
Lilo
Member:
stevens

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 9:48 am:

Hi Sara,

There was a vet clinic here that was offering "free" radiographs to check for enteroliths. I have no idea of whether that is an effective means of determining whether one, or more, are present. I wondered what someone would do it their horse was not colicing, but a radiograph indicated one was there.

I did have one horse who had an enterolith removed surgically. He did colic, wasn't eating and hadn't passed manure for close to 20 hours when we took him to the vet. They did a rectal exam and determined to do surgery as they were pretty sure there was a blockage and guessed there was an enterolith. There was and it was about the size of grapefruit. He had never coliced before and as far as I know, never coliced again after (I sold him 5 years after the surgery).

Good Luck!
Chris
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 10:30 am:

Maarissa died about half an hour after I posted. The vet asked if he could do a necropsey to see if he could find out what was going on with her and I gave my o.k. I'll post results.

Maarissa was a great mare with wonderful bloodlines. Due to her bad knee I was always afraid to breed her as I was afraid it would have stressed her knee too much. She was half sister to each of my stallions - same sire as Waseem,our gray, and same dam as our black, Asmar. She was in the show ring from the time she was trained until she was around 7. She won every class she was ever in except for two and except for Scottsdale. At Scottsdale big Arab show she came in top ten (Western Pleasure.) She was qualified for Nationals, but I couldn't afford to take her there. Two weeks after coming home from the trainer's I rode her in a 25 mi. endurance ride - my first; and she came in within 1 min. of the course record. Anyone could ride her and she would just walk along quietly, the minute someone who knew what they were doing picked up the reins she would go into her showring posture, even many years after she quit showing. She was loving and sweet and wonderful to be around. I foaled her out and deeply regret I wasn't by her side when she left this world. I will deeply miss her.
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 10:57 am:

oh Sara how sad.. she had a great life with you and is now living the life of a regal Arab running thru green pastures with speed and grace..


On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
sonoita

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 11:45 am:

Sara,
With sad heartfelt feelings your way. Man you have been through the ringer lately. Best wishes for the rest of the year. Again sorry for your loss.
Member:
frances

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 11:51 am:

What a terrible and sudden loss, Sara. I am so very sorry.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 11:53 am:

Very sorry for your loss Sara. She was lucky to have you as her forever-human.
Member:
stevens

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 12:29 pm:

So sorry to hear the sad news.
Member:
hpyhaulr

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 12:47 pm:

Sara,
I was just about to post good wishes, and the bad news came. Sara, I am so sorry. What a shocker for you. Dear heart, you have had more than your share lately. (((((HUGS)))))
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 1:24 pm:

Sara,
I'm very sorry to here of your unexpected loss. Maarissa sounds like a wonderful horse in many, many ways and I know you will miss her deeply.

Sending comforting thoughts your way~
Fran
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 1:28 pm:

Oh Sara I am so sorry she was such a lovely mare, looks and character even though I met her when she was already ageing.
Hope Beau doesn't miss her companion to much.
What a horrible start of the year
Jos
Member:
kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 1:48 pm:

Sara,
I am so sorry to hear about Maarissa. You had 19 great years with her and now she is with all her friends who have passed on. Yogi will keep her company.
Kathleen
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 1:56 pm:

The vet just called with the necropsy findings. Maarissa died from a ruptured stomach! She had stomach contents in her abdominal cavity, but none of it had been there long enough to be puriant (sp?) Vet thought maybe 5 to 6 days at the most. Both vets worked on her. They found a small hole in her stomach. They looked through all her intestines and couldn't find any blockage of any kind. There was no indication of worm damage. Vet said they had found 3 bots, which he said was "nothing." She maybe had an ulcer, but it would seem like there would have been some symptoms and usually he said that there is more than one ulcer, and they couldn't find any other spots of damage. So now, even though we know what killed her, there are more questions, and we'll probably never know the answers. My only hope is that all the pain meds he gave her made her comfortable enough that she didn't suffer too much at the end.

I'm going to look and see if I can find any articles that address "ruptured stomachs" just to educate myself. Have any of you heard of this happening?
Member:
zarr

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 2:23 pm:

Sara, so sad for your mare and you. When death calls out of the blue it leaves one reeling. The only experience with stomach rupture was my husbands hunting dog! It was much the same as Maarissa's story, sorry to say never any proof of exactly what was the cause. The vet said perhaps thin lining of stomach wall or just wear and tear thru time?? Much as there are weak spots in balloons that are unseen til they burst? But that was probably just for us? Cindy
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 2:34 pm:

I heard but don't know if it is true that Jus de Pommes the stallion who won the Olympics in Atlanta died of the same reason. He visited two very good clinics and was operated twice but they couldn't save him and had no clue as to why it happened. But this is what the owners son told me[we lived near them at the time] and I do not know how 'scientifically exact' this story is
Jos
Member:
shirl

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 4:20 pm:

Sara,
I"m so sorry to hear of your loss. You've just about had more than your share. Cherish memories and take care of you.
Hugs, Shirl
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 4:43 pm:

Sara So sorry. Take care.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 4:52 pm:

Sara, So Sorry for your loss. It sounds like she had a very wonderful and exciting life. Cherish your memories with her.
Melissa
Member:
leilani

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 5:23 pm:

Sara, I am so sorry. Leilani
Member:
erika

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 6:07 pm:

Oh Sara, so sad for you. We all know how you cherish and care for your horses. Maarisa was a lucky horse to have been yours.
Sorry you weren't able to say goodbye in person. She knew you cared.
Erika
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 7:18 pm:

My deepest condolences Sara,
Though not a common cause of colic and death it is not rare either. About 1/3 of the cases are considered "primary" or idiopathic, that is there is no obvious cause and a functional problem with the pylorus and stomach emptying is a possible cause.
DrO
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 9:02 pm:

Oh Sara, I am so sorry.

(((HUGS))) from all of us here.
Member:
mdobbs

Posted on Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 - 12:27 am:

Dear Sara,
I am so deeply sorry to hear of the loss of your beloved friend Maarisa. Though you werent with her in person at the time of her passing, I am sure she had you with her in spirit since your bond with her was, and is, so strong from the day she was born with you at her side. The veil between the world of the living and the world of those who have passed on is very thin. I am sure she resting and healing there and has you in her heart, as she is in yours. Your relationship together is different now, and still precious and special; love lasts forever.
Many blessings to you both,
Mary
Member:
paul303

Posted on Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 - 1:50 am:

Sara, you've had so much to deal with...I am so very sorry for your loss, more so, because there is bewilderment with it. A loss like yours is never easy, and I find, as I age, that losses become harder. My neighbor just lost his 32 yr old roping horse to a ruptured stomach last summer. The horse was perfectly healthy except for some arthritis. But my neighbor is going to be 80 and the horse was a "soulmate".
Rest up, Sara, you've got a lot on your plate.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 - 11:56 am:

Dear Sara, my deepest condolences. I am so sorry - Maarissa sounds like she was the perfect horse - I can imagine how beautiful she must have been, having seen both her half-brothers.

Yes, I have heard of this before. Very good friends of mine from my daughter's Westernaire days lost a beloved horse very suddenly due to a ruptured stomach.

So sorry to hear about your loss,

Lilo
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 - 8:21 pm:

Deeply sorry to hear of your loss, Sara.
Member:
juliem

Posted on Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 - 10:15 pm:

Dara, I'm so sorry you lost your girl. It's so very hard and I can imagine even harder to not be with her and say goodbye. Remember, she had many, many good years and only a few bad days. Thinking of you in Idaho, Julie
Member:
annes

Posted on Friday, Jan 11, 2008 - 2:17 pm:

Sara, I am so sad to hear of your loss and am thinking of you.
Ann S.
Member:
sctamaus

Posted on Friday, Jan 11, 2008 - 11:16 pm:

Dear Sara,
I am so sorry to hear that your Maarissa passed on. Those of us that have dealt with this know and feel your loss and heartache. She's in heaven now and o.k. Time will help mend your heart.
Sincerely,
Cheryl
Member:
quatro

Posted on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 - 10:59 pm:

Oh Sara, I am so very sorry for your loss. I have been dealing with a very sick dog, and not been paying attention lately. Just know we all send our love.
suz
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Feb 29, 2008 - 3:01 pm:

Are ruptured stomachs on the increase for some reason? I've recently heard of 3 other horses that have died from this, including one of the top Arabian show stallions in the country.
Member:
zarr

Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 1:49 pm:

Sara, we had a horse die of that here just down the road! Hope you get some feed back. Is there some common food stuff? Hay would be to vareied but pelleted feed could be a factor considering all the troubles in the food industry?? Cindy
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 7:27 pm:

Cindy, in all the cases I know of, including Maarissa, there was a necropsey done with no cause shown for the rupture; no sign of ulcers, worms, injury, etc. That is what makes it so puzzling to me.
Member:
zarr

Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 8:25 pm:

Me too, as I thought at one time we had thought our arab gelding had these stones! Either they were small and passed thru or were not there, my vet was never sure and being a true horse mom I worry about everything. His only ? had being calcium build up from alfalfa and that was a no as we feed none? Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 10:45 am:

No Sara,
There is no increase that I am aware of and until the cause is determined, it is difficult to draw any firm conclusions. If there is someone familiar with all the owners a thorough history taking might be interesting to see what factors were in common.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 11:43 am:

It would be interesting. I don't know the owners, but will think about contacting them anyway. On an average, how often does this occur? Have there been any studies done on it?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 1:06 pm:

Sara was Marissa the one that wouldn't eat alfalfa leafs...just the stems?
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 3:46 pm:

No, that is my old mare, Beaulima. Maarissa never showed any signs of any eating problems, or any other problems except for the arthritis in her knees that developed over the years after she had ACL surgery.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 4:27 pm:

Ok was just curious, I came across an article on ruptured stomachs that give a glimpse of what they think happens and that lactic acid could play a role. Was interesting and made sense. You may have seen this, but if not here is the website and you need to scroll down to stomach. I found the sentence
"This lactic acid causes paralysis of the pyloric sphincter" rather interesting. If you are anything like me I like to try to figure out what happened and have to research things to try and get a grip on it.

https://ohioline.osu.edu/b762/b762_5.html
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 8:38 pm:

Thanks for the link, Diane. I am like you as I hate not knowing "why" and have a difficult time accepting that sometimes there seems to be no "why."

I have read similar reports and articles regarding ruputured stomachs in foals. I asked my vet about it and he didn't feel that lactac acid build-up was a factor. However, I'm not sure what would rule that out unless it is the way she was fed and what she was fed. She got mostly grass/alfalfa mix hay fed in three feedings a day - sometimes more if really bad weather and horses are shut in. She also got 2# Equine Senior/day, one lb. in the a.m. and one in the evening, always fed after the hay. She got a good mineral/vitamin mix along with a joint supplement divided into her two Senior feedings. She always had fresh water, and loved to dunk her hay when she ate. It would be interesting to know what the other horses I've heard about were fed and how. I know one of them was on a stiff show schedule, so wondered about ulcers. I wondered about ulcers with Maarissa as she was occassionaly given bute, but the vet said there were no signs of ulcers in the stomach lining.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 9:03 pm:

I guess that is where my problem lies with horses There ALWAYS has to be a why, but sometimes the ans. can't be found leaving us hanging and wondering if we did something wrong. The few horses I have had put down I still have why questions, years later some of the questions have been ans. and I have become a better horse owner because of it.

I'm sure there is nothing you could have done differently to prevent this, it's just one of those things that keep you wondering tho. Sounds as if you fed her perfectly. Did your other horses have Equine Sr. out of the same bag also? Can mold cause something like that? I know one year I accidently fed my horses moldy pellets but they only got a a handful each I didn't realize it was moldy until they started turning up their noses at it.(I really had to examine it in the light to see it) But had fed it for a couple nights before that....I was lucky they were fat pigs and only had a handful a day or the consequences could have been quite different.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 6:12 am:

I don't think y'all are looking at this issue of "rupture stomachs" correctly. It is not a disease so much as the terminal event of quite a few different diseases. Some of them weaken the stomach wall, as it appears in Sara's case, while others overload the stomach's capacity. The problem Diane describes is not so much a recognized disease process as a highly conjectured event explaining a phenomena observed by someone, an increase incidence of stomach rupture in weanlings (something I have never seen).
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 6:43 am:

Dr.O. Thanks for that statement. I don't understand though if Sara's horse had a terminal event due to a few different diseases wouldn't something have showed up on necropsy? Is it possible for lactic acid build up could cause a ruptured stomach in an adult horse? Just curious..Thanks
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 11:08 am:

I'm not looking at it as a disease, but as an event and would love to find out what caused the event. It seems like it must have a cause. And then I am curious as to whether there is a common factor in horses that have a ruptured stomach. However, I guess to answer that question, there could be too many causes. But, if nothing showed up in blood work when she first showed mild colic symptoms early in the day, and nothing showed up in the necropsy, then what causes could there be? Do some horses just develop weakened areas of the stomach for no disernable reason? If she had ulcers at some time in the past that could have caused a weakened area in the stomach, wouldn't scar tissue show up? Could she have inadvertently eaten something that injured the stomach lining? Are some breeds more prone to this problem than others?

I just read on line last night that the QH Association has a Refrigerator Fund funded study starting regarding ruptured stomachs, so guess it's not specificly an Arab prone problem and we aren't the only ones curious. I'll be very interested to find out what they learn.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 5:57 am:

DianeE, I am uncertain lactic acid causes rupture in any horses, much less adult (see previous post). Sara, it is not that there are too many possibilities, but from the information in your posts, we don't know what your horses disease was. For instance one possibility would be a cancer causing the stomach defect.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 10:11 am:

Wouldn't cancer show up in blood work (even though it did't come back until after she died) or during the necropsey?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 5:36 pm:

Sara I wonder if a better question might be what disease processes that can contribute ruptured stomachs wouldn't show up on necropsy or bloods? Seems Marissa had an "event" without probable cause. So I wonder if there are any "rule outs" based on your reports?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 7:13 pm:

No most cancers of the stomach would not show up in blood work.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 10:47 pm:

I thought any cancer would show a high white cell count, or something indicative of infection? (Of course, I'm going by people, not horses.) Is cancer of the stomach very common? And, it's possible that a horse could have stomach cancer without anything showing during a necropsey also?
I'm not surmising that is what Maarissa had, but am curious.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 5, 2008 - 6:55 am:

Small focal cancers of humans would not have significantly elevated WBC counts either Sara. I have never seen a review of frequency but adenocarcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, and leiomyosarcoma are occasionally reported. Typically SCC does not create "tumors" but instead erosive lesions, ie ulcers. I am uncertain as to the appearance of the other two.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 9:35 am:

Thanks, Dr.O. I probably will never know what caused Maarissa's death. I wish I had the time to really study; there is so much to know and learn and it's so interesting. I did go over my horse care procedures, feed, worming, etc. with the two vets that attended her just to rule out any management issues. They seem as perplexed as I am as to what caused her rupture.
New Member:
fordy15

Posted on Friday, Feb 13, 2009 - 2:09 am:

Hi

I have a horse who has been suffering mild colic with the same symptoms as some of the horses on this website, he has had ultr sounds which have not shown up anything but the vet said it was possible there was still a stone in there as you can only ultra sound in 10-15cm and he is a very big horse so you can't see wverything, do you know if there is anywhere that can test his blood for infections, etc - where is the most through place in the world for horsey blood tests? I think we have don everything else we can and I am not ready to give up =(
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 13, 2009 - 9:11 am:

Welcome Amanda,
Let me help you get started off right. Rather than placing questions about your horse at the bottom of another member's discussion, you should "Start a New Discussion". There are several advantages to keeping discussions separate:
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You will find the "Start New Discussion" button at the bottom of the parent page to any particular discussion. It is beneath the article and list of already present discussions.

Reading that you have a undiagnosed colic case let me suggest a better place to post your question. Starting at the homepage follow these menu options:
Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Colic in Horses » An Overview of Colic
Before posting you should review the article as you will find helpful information. If it does not answer your question and you don't see a related discussion that answers your question you should "Start a New Discussion" with your questions. Try to keep all your questions on this horses's case together in one discussion. For more on this and other important information see Help & Information on Using This Site » Welcome to The Horseman's Advisor. Thanks for helping us stay organized.
DrO
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