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  Discussion on Pigeon Fever
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New Member:
Marroon

Posted on Friday, Mar 18, 2005 - 11:50 am:

We have a 18 yr old American Saddlebred who had surgery in KC about 2 to 3 years ago to remove a lump underside of neck, half way up the neck. Had vet check at purchase and all was good. Last July he had a big bump on the topside of his neck by his mane and it ended up bursting after treatment by antiobiotics, bute, and about two weeks. No signs of sickness before or during besides soreness. We hospitalized the horse for a month and they did cultures, nothing came up in them. After getting him home he was hot packed twice daily w/Epsom Salt/Warm water to keep it open and draining. I would push the pus from the middle of the neck to the opening to get it to drain upward. He healed and yes I saw another lump (smaller) than the first and treated it in the same manner but never seemed to get the pus to drain as well. The Doctor has seen it all since and feels he healed very well. Well, 8 months later and the smaller lump has returned. I noticed two weeks ago a hard spot in the neck/underside about halfway up. Just watched it, no movement just a bit of a hard spot. Last week the smaller of the two lumps from previously seemed to have growth. So..I massaged and he seemed to respond positively to that. The next day the smaller lump is swollen and today it is very large. He is shaking his head alot and he rubs on his neck quite often if allowed to. Almost like he is trying to get it out or rub it out. But you can tell it is painful. No fever, no decrease in eating, attitude good for having a lump that size. The doctor is coming out today to ultrasound, bute and antiobotics. Other than the doctor suggesting we take him 6 hours away to hospitalize and monitor, we aren't getting any suggestions as to what causes this or what to do about it. So..I will be requesting it be lanced and I will hot pack it to drain, in the upward way again. Please tell me more about Pigeon Fever and what other symptoms of it I should be looking for. Any other suggestions you have would be appreciated! This horse used to show in several states and is a beautiful working horse other than this problem we have come across. My daughter and I ride and he is not used for show any longer, but he still works fabulously. We have taken him out of the rack for concerns of his age/health and we also have shortened his hooves quite a bit in comparison to the show hooves and/or show shoes they were putting him in. Thank You!! CJ
Member:
Ejar

Posted on Friday, Mar 18, 2005 - 7:32 pm:

I boarded my horse at a small barn a few years ago that dealt with a case of Pidgeon Fever.

The most significant thing I remember is that it is highly infectious, and you need to be extraordinarily careful about clean up. To my knowledge, people can catch the bacteria too.

It was discovered early at my barn, and the mare was begun on heavy duty antibiotics immediately. She was packed with heat and epsom salts to draw out the infection. The infection travelled down her lymphatic system, from mid-neck down her left front leg, and along the left side of her belly. It erupted in three or four spots. Watch for new infections on the down side of the existing one.

The mare was alert, eating, and happy except for the fact that she was stall bound until the infection had cleared. (Didn't want to risk exposure to the turn out spaces).

If I remember correctly, it took a while to clear up, like four to six weeks. The biggest concern was transmission to other horses, or reinfection once the mare was back to health.

Good luck.
Erin
Member:
Marroon

Posted on Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 - 12:03 am:

Ejar, or any other specialist out there. How did they diagnose that it was pigeon fever? We ran blood, pus and biopsy in the last bout and came up with nothing. So....we just treated the symptoms of the abcess.

Is there something specific they are looking for that would jump out at us? I am trying to read everything I can but laymans terms really work best. But yes, we are very cautious about the clean up/disposal and etc. when caring for him.

Thanks for your tips! Has your mare had any bouts since then and how long ago was this? This has been on ongoing thing for the past 3 years at least. I was thinking that the immune level of repeating lowered. Well, thanks!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 - 11:04 am:

CJ, have you read the article associated with this forum, it explains ways to diagnose pigeon fever with culture. Just click on » Pigeon Fever, Dryland Strangles, & Distemper » at the top of this page.
DrO
Member:
Marroon

Posted on Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 - 12:23 pm:

Dr. O, I guess I read through sooo many things last night I forgot to review the diagnosis area in this section after reading the test studies. There sure is alot of them! So..if I were to call my vet on Monday and say, "Can you please culture on blood agar, looking for small, white and opaque colonies being a gram positive to pleomorphic rod when stained." He would know what I am talking about? Sorry, but as I said, I am so much better in laymans terms and I don't want to offend him but am destined to help this animal. I know he had mentioned the titers on the previous abcess but can not recall the number. It must have been higher than 512 because he was kept on antibiotics the whole time--he said it was staff, that's basically why we ended up hospitalizing him.

I don't really understand how the titer test and the organism gram positive test are at all linked together. They are separate tests, one to show for pigeon fever and one to show the titer level correct?

A friend of mine owns several miniatures and he says they get these all the time. He lances them and pours peroxide in them and they dry up and heal in 3 or 4 days. I think I read that peroxide can cause problems with the healing, but 3 to 4 days, that's nothing in comparison to what we went through last time!

To top it all off, this horse gets hives every time we give him shots. We thought he was allergic to the needles, but there were two times that he did not get them, so that can't be it. Thanks for leading me back in the correct place as I am new to the sight. Let me know if you can think of anything else. As of today I am on a hot packing regimen and this 16.3 guilding is sometimes a bit jumpy when trying to keep the drainage spot open and free flowing. Thanks!
Member:
Ejar

Posted on Saturday, Mar 19, 2005 - 4:38 pm:

The mare never got it again, and we were never quite sure how she got it in the first place. No one else at the barn contracted it either. The best guess we had at origin was flies, since our vet had two other patients in the area with the same thing.

As I recall, the vet did do a test to identify the bacteria, but it wasn't my horse so I didn't pay super close attention (my thoughts were on prevention! "Keep it away! Keep it away!" )

I've heard an old horseman's tale that keeping goats with horses in susceptible areas prevents the horses from getting infected. Have absolutely no proof for it, but the source was a real smart old cowboy. I must admit, if I was faced with multiple infections, I'd consider a goat cheap insurance. (Hey! How could it hurt?!)

Good luck.

Erin
Member:
Marroon

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 30, 2005 - 11:25 am:

Erin, sorry it took me forever! It's called Equi Spot-On Fly Control. They also have a UltraSpot and Freedom 45 Spot. Says they are water resistant but I found them to be less effective when it rained. They are to repel and kill flies, gnats, ticks and mosquitoes. I don't believe it did all that but it did improve the fly irritation and numbers around him & me! Says it only lasts two weeks but even with 1/2 dosages I found it to be good for four.

OK, maybe you can help me here, I want to continue with Dr. O on the results of the info of the testing on the abscess we were originally discussing but don't know if I should post it here or if I go someplace else. Do you know? Thanks! CJ
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 30, 2005 - 6:28 pm:

CJ I replied to your post in the suggestion box on finding posts.
DrO
Member:
Marroon

Posted on Saturday, Apr 2, 2005 - 4:21 am:

DrO, well he's about healed up here but can't tell for how long. It still looks a bit lumpy by the maine so I guess it's a waiting game now. Had him on longe line today and head was so far down thought he'd scoop up the arena w/his nostrils. He seems to be hungrier! & I really looked hard at him today and believe he is loosing weight. Only other thing I have to go on besides my prev. post is he is raising his right rear more often. Now when I'm grooming him I get to the middle of his belly & up goes that rear leg almost like I'm tickling him--does it now and again when I'm not even touching him too. That's been happening for quite some time--but not in reaction to the grooming. We have him on For A Flex Joint Formula & Life Data Ferriers Formula. Had been stretching the rear legs & thought it was getting better. OK onward.

The biopsy on the abscess didn't culture anything. The timing was good on this one this time too, but nothing more to go on. Sooo..I am searching and ran into a few questions. I read the thread on Onchocerca and my question is if adults worms are there could they be causing enough hate and discontent to cause an abscess? Also, can an abscess be considered a lesion? I am seeing lesion being used often but I think it may be being used loosely when I truly need it to be used otherwise if I am to get myself & him on track. Have been using Ivermectin 4x yearly as dosage states but not on empty stomache. Will now though. Last time used Strongid, that's what the barn wanted. Now I think I may be missing the L4 stage.

I have other specific questions but I think I've probably taken as much of your time today as I dare. Just wandering if you think this might be a path to persue? Fistulous Whithers?

Thank You!!
Member:
Marroon

Posted on Saturday, Apr 2, 2005 - 4:23 am:

DrO, I must add this horse has never shedded out completely. Thanks again!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Apr 2, 2005 - 11:20 am:

No I don't think this sounds like either onchocerca or fistulous withers. I am concerned about the deworming program you describe, the article on Overview of Deworming explains how to check out the efficacy of your program.
DrO
Member:
Marroon

Posted on Monday, Apr 4, 2005 - 3:51 pm:

DrO--Have reviewed and am making some changes with the help of the vetrinarian locally. Thanks for your help, will let you know of any updates. CJ
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