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  Discussion on How long to try heaves remedies?
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 13, 2000 - 9:58 pm:

Dear Dr. O,
I have a 12 yr. old gelding that has had a mild cough since I have been riding him. I called the vet who said it was nothing serious and put him on 5 days of Tri-Tussin. (It didn't help) I was worried that it would turn into heaves, and now it has. (He was formally diagnosed a month ago)His cough is constant when riding and breathing often labored at rest now. I have been trying everything I know. First I wet his hay--then took him off hay and on alfalfa cubes---removed shavings----replaced shavings but wet them----worked him more----worked him less----Cough-free, Vetalog, and bronchiodialators. Nothing seems to make much of a difference. He has been in a very open paddock stall which has good ventilation but also allows the dust and hay spores from other stalls to blow into his clean one. He goes out at night. I live in Florida (in a dry, dusty DrOught right now) so allergens are high in the usually humid air. My main questions are these:

*there is little shelter in the fields from the rain and sun....is he still better out 24/7?

* how long do I try one remedy before I know it is ineffective and try another...week, month, etc.?

* is it better to work him for the benefits of fitness and circulation, or rest him until he is asymptomatic?

* has it progressed to irreversible damage this quickly? How would I know?

I've had the horse less than 9 months and was told that he was "one of the healthiest horses I've seen" by the vet during the pre-purchase exam. Please help....I miss riding him and am at a loss what to do.
Heather

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2000 - 12:03 am:

OOps..........one more thing. Since he is on alfalfa cubes now instead of hay, how much of the cubes should he have to equate hay (lb. for lb. wet or dry?) and how should I change his concentrates for the difference in calcium/ protein /phosphorus etc. ? Thanx

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2000 - 10:33 am:

Hello Heather,
The majority of your questions, including why your horse has not responded, are answered in the article on COPD, please study it carefully. I cannot know if there are irreversible changes that are significant but in such a short time I would be surprised.

There are some feed recommendations in the article but to study how to feed your horse review the general nutrition articles and those on forages in particular, I think it will help you understand the important factors that you asked about and many factors you may not be aware of.

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2000 - 1:37 pm:

Heather:

I usually get into trouble when I post about the Heaves but here goes. I too purchased a horse with heaves, not knowing he had them. My horse was fine in the winter and reacted awfully in the summer. It may have had something to do with summer pasture allergies but I never found out.

I think the heaves are different in different horses. My horse had lots of mucus and also dry coughing too. I also had him on everything. The only thing that really worked well was Azium, steriods. Also, I got some herbs from a company called Veternary Alternatives that really helped him with the mucus and "deep" coughs. I wasn't able to really ride him Hard during the summer, but in winter he was 100% fine.

I ended up selling him to someone who lives in northern Wisconsin where it doesn't get as hot and humid as it does here in Chicago. As far as I know he's doing fine up there.

Also, his new owners planned on purchasing an inhaler for him so that he could do the inhaled steriods. A good web site to check out for this is the University of Michigan's Veternary School's site. They specialize in the respiratory problems of the horse there.

I wish you the best of luck. Liz

Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2000 - 5:33 pm:

Hello All,
I have placed that link in the article on COPD at the very bottom after the research summaries.
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2000 - 11:07 pm:

Hello! I'm back. I have studied all the articles and posts on heaves like a bible. Cisco has been out of the barn for about 3 months now and off hay for 2 months. (I board him and couldn't prevent the stable from throwing hay in the pastures during the DrOught.) He was also on Clenbuterol for awhile. His condition improved quite a bit but it fluctuates. Sometimes he is healthy enough to gallop without a cough, and other times standing in the pasture makes him breathe heavy. Also, it seems directly linked to the rain. If it is dry for a week than he gets very heave-y but gets better if it rains for a few days. This is a consistent pattern regardless of medication. We are about to enter the dry season in Florida and I don't want him to get bad like last year. That is when he was first diagnosed with COPD. My questions are these:
*Why does rain affect his breathing if COPD is hay/barn related? Please don't tell me I have one of those rare COPD/SPAOPD horses!
* Second, I read your recommendations for oral prednisone. We tried injectable steroids which didn't work, but I am willing to try the oral ones. How long should I try them before weaning him off of it, and how many times should I try the routine before I give up? I don't want to continue to destroy his lungs by "masking" the problem.
*Finally, if it is something in the pasture, do you think moving him across town to a different stable or maybe to a sand paddock would change things, or is my only hope to sell my baby up north?Thanks for your time and advice,
Heather

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2000 - 8:02 am:

That's Wonderful Heather,
SPAOPD is the best explanation for why he would worsen when he is on PASTRUE ONLY (no hay or barn life) and improves following a rain. Though SPAOPD is rare where I practice you are in one of the states it is not that rare. However it may also be that are some advanced lesions in the lung that are irritated by the dry dusty conditions....These are tough diagnostic calls that with time will become apparent.

You need to think a little more critically about the injectable steroid remark that, "It did not work". It just is a simple fact that allergic diseases are very responsive to steroids. However it will not correct already damaged tissue, it will not be as effective if continued exposure to the allergin occurs, it may have been too low a dose for too short a period...I could go on. There is no magic time or dosage and will depend on many factors. A particularly bad heavy horse came into the practice 5 years ago (donated to the barn owner) that we kept on fairly high levels of pred all summer long, along with absolute pasture rest. He straightened out and became asymptomatic and at that point was weaned off the pred. Last I heard he was still doing well.

If you use the steroid to manage the disease alone and do not do the management changes you are heading for trouble but treating acute bouts with corticosteroid probably slow down the formation of the permanant changes.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2000 - 10:11 pm:

Dr. O,
Thank you for replying so quickly. I think that I may want to clarify a few things though---for my own understanding. Cisco never goes near a barn anymore at anytime. The closest he goes is the washrack to be tacked up. Hay is not thrown in the pastures during the summer and I am working with the barn owner to find a "private paddock" for Cisco and a friend when she starts to throw hay again. With this management and prednisolone (not prednisone) I needn't worry too much about furthering the lung damage? Even if it might be SPAOPD?
Also, you mentioned that you gave that heavey horse in your practice absolute pasture rest until he was asymptomatic. I have been riding Cisco when his nostrils are still flaring, but not if he is really laboring (expiration shakes his body.) Should I not be riding him at all? I was hoping the exercise would help open up the lungs---he seemed to breathe a bit better after a nice ride.
And for my sweeping steroid remark----actually the Vetalog steroids worked, but not satisfactorially. The first few days after an injection it seemed like a wonder-drug. Completely different horse with no symptoms what-so-ever. Unfortunately, this faded in about 5 days and was back to normal in a week or so. Since the shots could only be given every 6 weeks, a one week cure was not adequate. Hoping that the EOD therapy will correct the highs and lows of the injectables. :-)

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2000 - 8:44 am:

No, if you are getting recurrent symptoms of COPD and only able to control them through the use of steroids: you are getting permanant lung damage from the continued exposre of your horses lungs to the allergin. The steroids ameleorate the symptoms and probably slow down the rate at which it forms: but it is still coming. Without seeing your horse it is difficult to judge what exercise is fair but I think you can judge: don't do anything that seems overly stressful.
DrO
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