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Discussion on Founder questions
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 3:53 am:
DrO, would manually toughening the sole (formaldehyde, for instance) somehow relieve the foundered horse and accelerate healing by providing "insulation" from the ground and better support for the rotating coffin bone or would it cause the unsupported coffin bone to pound against an unforgiving sole, making the condition even more painful?
I see no recommendation for toughening the sole along with other treatment. Wouldn't it make a difference?
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 9:43 am:
I sure hope so, my vet just gave me a formaldehyde solution for my mares feet. Her soles are very thin. (founder isn't an issue yet, but all the signs of it are forming) But from what i am reading toughing up the sole isn't as important as getting the horse to grow more sole, and making it thicker. I just read a pete ramey article that made lots of sense about the sole and how important it is to get that sole thicker.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 10:16 am:
Hello Christos,
You have set forth the two arguments, one for and one against, toughening the sole. We don't have any objective data so I take a middle of the road approach. If the sole is normal I leave it alone but it thin enough to be moderately depressable with my thumb I toughen it.
DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 4:09 pm:
Makes sense, DrO (don't you always, it starts getting annoying  ). Thank you very much.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 6:39 pm:
Maybe I should try a few that don't make good sense...
 DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 11:27 pm:
No, not really. We get plenty of that elsewhere...
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Member:
Hannah
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Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:19 am:
How do you go about to toughen the sole? Can it be done without the horse having to move around?
I have used a formaldehyde solution (5%) for at least 2 years now, but only applied it in my horses separations.. I thought the point with farmaldehyde was to kill any bacteria that resides in the laminae, thus making it stop separating.. But, maybe this is true for the sole as well? If you kill the bacteria, the sole might not deteriorate as fast?
Liv & Masai
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Member:
Mleeb
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Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:52 am:
I've had two horses that have foundered, and each of them had what appeared to be an abscess that broke through. The first was a Shetland mare I rescued with feet longer than skis. When trimmed a bit, she had a hole that went from the sole of the foot and out through the back, high on the heel. Anything poured into one came out the other. The second was my daughters mare, last spring (way too much rain here and far too much grass). She had a breakthrough just below the coronet band. In both of these cases I used Kopertox on them. I had a bottle kicking around from when I had last had sheep here, and I know on the ewes, whenever their feet hurt even a little, they would start crawling around on their knees. Nothing keeps those girls from food! They would put even the hungriest horse to shame. Anyway, one dose of Kopertox on the ewes and they were back on their feet under 24 hours. The horses seemed to find the same relief, and I would use it for 2-3 days. My vet says it's good for toughening the soles, and the farrier agrees. That goes right along with my experience of it, too. It sticks very well, hard to wash off your hands, and it takes the hair off of everything so never use it on anything other than feet or soles.
I've never heard of using formaldehyde before seeing it mentioned here. That's a new one for me.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 11:09 am:
Hi, Liv, I've used 10% with very good results, just brushing it on the sole. Every second day for a week or so is the most I have used it for, in bad cases of thrush or in preparation for the first outing on stones.
You have to be careful that it does not come in contact with sensitive tissue, it will damage it. When I apply it in cracks, I probe the crack with a toothpick first, if there's a reaction I use betadine until it heals, then formaldehyde.
It will not stop founder, however. The separation in founder is between sensitive and insensitive laminae, deep inside the hoof. Even if you could get formaldehyde in there through a crack, it sounds like a bad, bad idea.
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Member:
Hannah
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Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 4:10 am:
Yeah, I did not think it was going to cure the cause of founder , formaldehyde/formalin being the stuff we use in the lab to conserve animals for dissection.. Nononono...
I was just rolling around some thoughts in my head about the stuff. If this can cure the cause of the separation, NOT founder, but fungus caused by excessive expotion to moist perhaps, than it might also be able to make the sole get thicker it you remove the cause of it decaying too fast. Am I making some sense here? Probably not That was what I meant above here. But that might have been your idea as well?
When I buy formaldehyde in the stores here (Norway) you only get a 0,5% solution, so I had to get some from our college lab. But I did not dare make it stronger than 5%, but you have successfully used 10%? Maybe I´ll try that next time
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 9:34 am:
I think the theory of formaldehyde is its a drying agent. pulls all water out and creates a tougher barrier from what is already there. In wet raining seasons here i apply it then apply a sealant like a pine tar or something. I'm sure like all products too much of one thing is a bad thing over time. and then the only other purpose for toughening the sole is to help you give the horse more movement. more movement is more growth, stimulates the blood flow etc. so keeping that horse moving will help grow more sole. And i can't do that if the sole is thin and the horse is ouchy, etc...
good article on the workings of the sole.
https://www.hoofrehab.com/horses_sole.htm
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 10:10 am:
Does anyone have any opinions on whether formaline or turpentine will toughen the soles better? Also I heard that you need to keep turpentine away from the frog area. Any logic to that?
shelley
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 10:20 am:
Hello All,
we have an article on formaldehyde that answers most of these questions and can be found at, Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Formaldehyde and Formalin Use. Shelly on your question on turpentine, formaldehyde acts quicker and I don't know any reason turpentine cannot be used on the frog.
DrO
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