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  Discussion on Mare just had suspensory flexor tendon surgery
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Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 3:26 pm:

A bad day. One of our best young mares, in training to start her performance show career this fall, cut the suspensory flexor tendon on her right front leg this morning. Our vet recommended surgery, so she was "put down" and the injury was throughly flushed and cleaned, rough edges removed, and the tendon sutured together. A wedge was incorporated into the cast which will keep her up on her toe and take stress off the tendon. She will need rest for 5-7 mos. Is there anything else that can be done for this mare? What, in your opinion, is her chance for full recovery? Has anyone else been through this and what experience/advice do you have?

I'm about to have a major "fall apart" over this. (I'm still recovering from our old dog getting lost this past Saturday night. We finally found him on Monday evening, many miles from where he was lost. Am worn out from no sleep and lots of searching, so this is hitting especially hard.)
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 3:37 pm:

Sara,
I have no advice other than to take care of yourself also. I'm so sorry for all of this as I know how it hurts, disappoints and is emotionally and physically exhausting.
You're in my thoughts and prayers.
Shirl
Member:
Ilona

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 4:59 pm:

Sara,
I'm so sorry to hear this...just remember, time does pass and healing does happen, animals have great capacity for a comeback. I remember when my horse had an accident that did not bode well for his survival and I was beside myself with worry. So worried that I slept in his stall with him for 2 nights to be sure I was there if anything went wrong. It is now 4 years later and he has been fully recovered for 2 years. It was a different injury so don't be dis-heartened. As to your mares recovery prospects, I'm sure Dr. O will give you a valuable opinion.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 5:09 pm:

Too sad to hear that, Sara.

But don't hurry to fall apart yet, it all depends on how this particular horse will rebuild the tendon. You'll know more in 5-6 weeks, much much more in 5-6 months.

Is it the superficial flexor or the suspensory ligament that broke? Where exactly did it break? Did the vet find any damage to the deep digital flexor tendon ?

It is very strange to hear that she needs 5-7 months of rest. With a severe tendon injury you are looking at 9 months minimum, Sara, if you ever want to see her returning to her previous shape. Sorry to be abrupt but that's the way it is, 50% of a tragic end is usually because of a hurry to return an injured tendon to training.

For now do not forget to support the other leg, and buy yourself a good pair of walking shoes. There's a lot of hand walking to be done in the next months.

I wish you strength, courage and patience to care for this through to a complete recovery.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 8:27 pm:

Thank you, all. It was her superficial flexor, thank God her digital flexor tendon was not cut. It was totally severed about 6 inches above her fetlock. She, who normally is quite and calm under saddle, for some reason "went bonkers" while being lounged this a.m. She pulled away from our trainer and went bucking around the arena, then stopped with her leg bleeding. We don't have a clue what she could have been cut on, unless she cut her own leg by over-reaching with her rear leg while bouncing around.

Our poor trainer, a wonderful woman, is even more upset than I am as she feels responsible; though I don't know what she could have done wrong. We have used her for over 12 years and think the world of her.

I went to see Libby (Libertys Rose) this afternoon. She was recovered from anesthesia, but was obviously in pain, even though on pain meds. Her leg was shaking uncontrolably and was sweaty, as were her shoulders and cheast. Poor girl! We left her at the vet's overnight, and will see if she's ready to come home tomorrow.

I know the horse's ability to heal is amazing. Our black stallion, Asmar, was so badly injured I was deathly afraid we would have to put him down. It took months, many, many months for him to heal, but he did. He was a wonderful patient; easy to handle and work with. I just hope Libby does as well.

btw, Christos - our vet may have said 9 mos. I was in a state of shock, I think, and he told me while doing the surgery, so I don't really remember.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 9:32 am:

Sorry to hear about this Sara. Let me help a bit with the anatomy. In the rear of the lower leg in the area you describe there is both a superficial and deep digital flexor tendon (SDFT and DDFT) that lies over the suspensory ligament. At this level the check ligament may have branched off the DDFT, for images see References » Equine Illustrations » Leg Anatomy and Conformation » Tendons, Ligaments, and Muscles of the Horse's Leg.

Take heart Sara, though this is a severe injury, with proper care there is a fair to good chance your mare will return to her intended use. As Chris suggests and I agree you are looking at a 9 to 12 month recovery time. We do not have much information on caring for a completely transected tendon so I will put together an article on this with hopes it helps you.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 11:25 am:

Dr. O - Thank you so much! It is the SDFT that she cut. You could see the DDFT, but very luckily she didn't cut through to it. I appreciate the clarification. My vet did say the superficial tendon, and I did go to your great anatomy illustrations; my brain wasn't operating very well when I first posted!

I would love to read such an article as can use all the info I can get on rehab. I know it will be long and difficult, but as long as she recovers, it will be well worth it. Is it a given she will have a lot of scare tissue on her leg, or with proper care can this be avoided?

I'm leaving to pick her up in about half an hour. She is eating o.k. and seems to be doing much better with the pain. I think her system was pretty much in shock yesterday, both from the injury and the surgery.
Member:
Frances

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 12:13 pm:

What a shame, Sara. I'm so sorry, and I do hope you find your mare in much less pain today. You'll be glad to have her home in your care again.

Take comfort in DrO's encouraging prognosis - and make sure you get some rest.

Lynn
Member:
Srobert

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 1:34 pm:

Sara: I am so sorry you have to deal with this - and just when your mare was nearing her debut. Thank goodness she has a home with you - someone who will take care of her and help her heal herself. When she gets home, tell her there are lots of folks out here pulling for her - and give that "dish a kiss" from a fellow arab lover out here.

Keep us posted and be sure to take care of yourself as well. Shari
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 5:45 pm:

Sara-

I will keep you and Libby in my prayers. Your love and care will see her through. Make sure that you take care of "you"-you won't be any help to Libby if you get down.

I recently witnessed a Standardbred (the fastest 2 year old pacer in the nation at the time) have surgery for septic tenosynovitis on his front leg. He was on the table for 2 hours and 23 minutes. We heard yesterday that he will be leaving the hospital after 12 days on Saturday. Prognosis is excellent for return to full athleticism after numerous months of slow rehab at home. Complete stall rest, hand walking, swimming, and more. Recovery time may be slow but will be worth it long term.

What I want to share with you is that this colt sweated profusely after his surgery...the vet at the university equine center told us it was from the anesthetic and pain meds. He also was shaking quite a bit. I think the shaking has something to do with the shock that comes to one's system from surgery.

Sara, I made many people angry with me when this youngster I groom became lame and had to have surgery. I said, "Everything happens for a reason". We may not understand why, but I believe that. It doesn't seem fair or just, especially to a rising young star...I believe it just makes them shine brighter in the future.

I wish you and your mare the very best.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 10:45 pm:

Again, thank you all for your posts and well wishes. It is just so nice to be able to voice fear and frustration, and to receive input from people who really do understand your love for the horse.

DJ - actually, I agree that things seem to happen for a reason, although the reason is sometimes hard to see or understand. I know when our black stallion, Asmar, was so badly injured I was just beside myself. Yet, he and I became so bonded - so much trust developed between us - that it was worth it in a way. We had always "clicked," but during that time a great bond was established and now, no matter what, he will listen to me and will do for me what he won't do for anyone else. And, he will let me do anything to him and with him. And, I trust him totally, also. (Although I always remain aware he is a stallion!)

It is difficult to see a beautiful mare in great condition be so injured though. She was happy to come home. She has quit sweating, is eating good, laid down and napped for quite a while, and seems just very relaxed now she's home. She's a high energy girl, though, and keeping her confined and still is going to be difficult. I'll have to read old posts and get everyone's suggestions on what they've done to keep their horses entertained during long confinements. Asmar tends to be relatively lazy, and was pretty easy to keep quiet. I think she will be more difficult.

LL - I slept in this a.m. until 8:00a.m. -totally unheard of for me - and feel much better. Also went to the lake for a quick swim, so am feeling much better emotionally and physically. (It was very draining thinking we had lost our Austin, also.)

And, Shari - I give her a kiss right in the middle of her pretty dish just for you!
Member:
9193

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 3:00 pm:

Hi Sara,

I was so sorry to catch your post and read about your mare's injury.. I understand your reaction to seeing a horse with such exciting potential become sidelined with such a traumatic injury that will take months to rehabilitate. We were sponsoring a younger horse for my daughter this past year and just as they both qualified to go to the N.CA Jr Rider Championships in August, he badly injured his right front leg and will be in rehab for at least a year.. We are so sad he is injured and you just can't help wonder about the "what ifs"..

I have been rehabbing our T-bred for the last 16 months and this site has been invaluable for its information, personal suggestions and emotional support. Certainly if you have questions, this is the place to come for answers!!

I wish you and your mare continued healing. She sounds like she is in loving, caring, competent hands and I hope you keep us posted as to her progress in the coming months.

Smiles and Healing,
Debra
Member:
Djws

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 7:28 pm:

Hi Sara-

I was just wondering how you and Libby are doing.

For some reason, you both have been on my mind all day.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 11:55 pm:

Debra - How disappointing for your daughter. What did her horse do to his leg? You are right about this site; there are some wonderful people here and a lot of combined knowledge.

DJ - Libby is doing pretty good. So far she's being quiet and laying down napping a little during the day. (She has always lain down a part of the night) She is eating and drinking good. So far she is taking her bute and antibiotics mixed in a little grain and oil. We spend time in her stall grooming and keeping her company. She loves attention! It's hard to clean her stall because she keeps laying her head on your shoulder wanting it rubbed.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 11:17 am:

Sara-Happy to hear that all is well. Sounds as if you have one sweet little gal to care for. You both remain in my thoughts and prayers.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 7:03 pm:

Thank you, DJ. She is a sweetie; a pretty girl, too with a trot to die for when she gets moving. Hopefully, she'll be able to do it again in about a year!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 8:55 pm:

Oh Sara, I'm so sorry to hear about this! I know that with you on her side and your fabulous care she'll have the best chance of a full recovery and you'll once again see that trot of hers.

My best to you...
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006 - 12:23 am:

Hey Sara!

How is Libby doing?

Give her head a rub from me!

Thinking of you both!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006 - 12:21 pm:

Libby's doing good. She's starting to get a little bored, so I have her hay doubled bagged so she can spend most of the day picking at it. She's where she can see most of what's going on around her, which is a lot right now. We are getting a slab poured for 3 more stalls and extra gravel in the drive, so she has a lot to watch.

Yesterday I hung a fan on the outside of her stall so she'd have a little breeze. At first she didn't know what to make of it. I went to check her about an hour later, and she was standing nose near the fan with her eyes shut and the breeze blowing her mane...loving it.

I'm anxious for her first check so we can see how her wound is doing. No heat or swelling that I can detect above or below the cast, so hope all is o.k. inside it.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006 - 11:57 pm:

Sara-

You won't believe this.

We brought the 2 year old colt home from the university hospital on Saturday. This is the horse I told you about towards the beginning of this thread.

We were worried about his being under "house arrest" (complete stall rest) for 2 weeks. In anticipation of boredom or craziness (VERY studdy) we purchased a Jolly Ball, hay nets, a cone, and Reserpine (last resort), and crossed our fingers.

The ball is squashed, the net is history, the cone was tossed from his stall-didn't want to use the tranquilizer (yet).

He is very jealous when his stall mates are taken to the track for jogging or training. He gets angry and BAM! Not bored as much as he is ticked that he can't get out. 2 weeks total stall rest, 2 weeks minimal walking, 2 weeks swimming, then will be re-assessed with ultra sound, exam etc. Trainer is great, gentle, and patient. It will be a long haul. He suffered no tendon damage and there were no adhesions. WBC in synovial fluid in sheath was 37,000 on admission. He went through this like the winner he is.

Anyway, it was stuffy in his stall (our humidity is horrible) so...I went and got a box fan.

Like your Libby, exactly-stuck his nose on it, loves it, is fascinated with the whole concept of the breeze blowing his forelock and mane. THEN, he turns himself around and allows it to blow on his big butt. I hope he umm..doesn't enjoy the breeze blowing on his knees (so to speak-LOL)-like I said, he's really studdy. It's a hoot to think that something so simple has appeased him.

I wonder what type of horse you'd get if you crossed a (very) dark bay Standardbred with an Arabian? These two definitely have something in common-LOL. (By the way, what type of showing do you do with Libby? I may not be asking this question correctly-still trying to get the lingo down)!

I hope Libby's wound is doing as well as No Tax Intended's (we call him Beau or The Baby). He has amazed the ortho surgeons and students with his recovery thus far. He's got the will and the drive it seems. That's half the battle, so I'm told.

This guy is dear to my heart. Have been around him since he was 10 months old. Beau is the reason I got my horse. He was at the same barn when the barn owner broke his ankle and I offered to help. He likes women so, when he moved to the trainer's he asked me to do his grooming (more "go-for" work than anything) after training sessions, qualifiers, races, etc. He's much different than my Biv. He has a sweet side to him though...

and it's not the one that's probably facing the fan! LOL!

Take care Sara-of you and Libby!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 - 12:53 am:

DJ, I'm so glad Beau is doing so good. If you crossed the two, you'd probably get a very pretty, inquisitive, head-strong horse that was spoiled rotten, too smart for it's own good, and liked to run/trot into the wind! Even though it wasn't especially hot today and there was a nice breeze, we had to turn Libby's fan on. She kept standing in front of it and when she didn't get the expected effect, she started banging on the wall with her cast! We quickly gave in, even tho' we've probably started something we will regret! Sounds like you have a similar problem!

I don't know what color horse you'd wind up with; Libby is a gray, her mom is gray on both sides of her pedigree, but Libby's sire is black on both sides of his pedigree.

Thanks for the update on Beau. Keep me posted. I'm off to bed.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 - 12:47 am:

Sara-

Can't write much at this time. I am exhausted and mentally taxed.

I had to take Beau back to the hospital this afternoon. Major setback. He is having surgery again in the morning. Took a turn for the worse (very lame) in a matter of a few hours this morning. No injury to himself that is visual, minimal increase of swelling, did start running a temp around noon. Very strange, very sad. He was doing so beautifully.

I will let you know what they find and will be in touch tomorrow evening. (They took fluid samples from his tendon sheath and ankle late this afternoon-ultrasounds and surgery in AM)

You and Libby keep us in your prayers, okay?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 - 12:29 pm:

DJ - I'm so sorry to hear your news about Beau! The two of you will certainly be in my thoughts and prayers. I'm not sure if Libby prays or not, but certainly such beautiful animals must have a special connection to God, and that includes Beau. I believe everything happens for a reason, but at the time things happen is us usually difficult to figure out the reason ",why" isn't it? Please let us know how Beau is as soon as you get the chance.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 2:41 pm:

Libby went for a check-up yesterday, and to get her cast off. Our vet "put her down" to cut off the cast - understandably as the saw was very loud.

Her wound looked very good, at least the outside that we could see. Healing beautifully with no swelling or infection, and granulation is starting.

After Libby "came to" and was able to stand o.k., our farrier came and fitted her with a wedge pad and shoe. Together they keep her heel about 3/4" angle so she isn't able to stretch her tendon. Her leg was re-wrapped with a soft bandage which I need to change every other day.

We moved her to an outside stall so she can be around some of her buddies. I keep hay triple netted for her to munch on, and have various toys strung up. She's being a very good patient and is staying quiet. I haven't had to resort to the Coors Light yet, thankfully, as Libby is much more the champagne type, which would run into money!
Member:
Canter

Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 3:51 pm:

So glad to hear the good news, Sara. I will keep my fingers crossed for continued success with this injury.
Member:
Dres

Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 4:15 pm:

Sara , you or the horse COORS LIGHT.. ?? If you i would go with a beer with more gusto.. YOU have earned it too..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them spots..
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 7:14 pm:

I'm afraid I'm not much of a beer drinker, either. I do love good wine, however, and Lonnie's home-made margaritas!
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 11:16 pm:

Hey Sara, sounds like good news. That is why Levi has not been allowed champagne. He does slurp from my wine glass, if I venture out to the barn with some though. don't want him to develop an expensive habit!
suz
Member:
Djws

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 1:14 am:

Sara-

It's wonderful to hear some good news. I am happy for you, and Libby. I believe everything will stay on a positive note for the two of you!

Beau is still in the hospital. He had surgery again yesterday. It doesn't look good. I am heartsick.

I am going to write to Dr. O because I have so many questions. I won't waste time and space posting what has happened to him in this thread...it's a long ordeal.

Gosh, I could use a good Margarita, or two, or three. My sweet Beau, probably could too.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 9:57 am:

That’s wonderful Sara, at this rate your horse will be well before I get that article written. I am interested in how they helped the horse to stand. I think I would have attempted to sedate the horse and remove the cast standing for fear of the uncoordinated period following recovery.
DrO
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 10:17 am:

That sounds beautiful, Sara, over to granulation tissue without problems is a big step forward.

DrO, you can put them down very shortly, cut the cast, duct tape it in place, lift the horse, cut the duct tape and remove the cast.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 10:29 am:

GREAT news Sara! :-)
Member:
Christos

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 10:33 am:

DrO, how does it go with antibiotics in this case? Would you discontinue them after granulation ?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 11:07 am:

Dr.O, Our vet works under what some would consider "primitive" conditions. He puts the horse down in a padded room. There is a big ring on the wall, through which he runs the lead rope. He heavily sedates the horse by injection and controls the fall of the horse and the direction it goes down with the lead rope and with his assitants pushing on the horse so it goes down gently and in the correct position.

For this procedure, she was kept "down" by injection which kept her "down and out" but not too heavily sedated. She was constantly watched my an assistant up by her head who controlled the amount of drug (I didn't ask what drug) and checked her vitals constantly.

For recovery, she was just kept in the same padded room and watch via camera. She didn't struggle at all, but just rolled up onto her chest and stayed there for awhile, until she felt like she could stand. Her leg was bandaged right after the cast was taken off while she was still "out."

She was on antibiotics for 10 days, and also Bute. She is now on nothing, not even the Bute. Do you think I should ask about her going back on at least the bute?

Oh, Dr. O., I looked for that article, btw, but didn't find it! Do you basically follow the same rehab protocol as with severe tendon injury as per your article?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jul 8, 2006 - 10:24 am:

Wow Sara, many of the newer protocols are much better at a controlled stand that avoid the initial excitement experienced with the older single injection of ketamine and xylazine but still a no assisted stand for a completely transected tendon shows confidence in ones surgery. Currently I give a booster of xylazine 10 minutes into surgery to minimize the excitement stage but I would be interested in what protocol he used.

Let's see, antibiotics? Christos, if the site was well granulated and no remarkable swelling or fluid pockets on ultrasound, I would discontinue the antibiotics. If the horse is comfortable and swelling not a problem I don't think bute is necessary.

If you consider coming out of the cast as day 1 the rest would follow about right but would expect a little longer time before I began aggressive riding towards the end of the rehab. Hopefully we will have that article up before then.
DrO
Member:
Christos

Posted on Saturday, Jul 8, 2006 - 1:19 pm:

Thanks, DrO.
Interesting info about waking up, didn't know xylazine helps. (hadn't read the article )
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 12:39 am:

Dr. O - I changed Libby's bandage today for the first time since her bandaging by our vet following cast removal. Our vet had said there would probably be some swelling, and I could see that her knee had swollen a little above the bandage; however, I wasn't prepared for what I saw when I removed the old bandage.

There was swelling at the site of injury, but what bothered me the most was all the seepage and what looked like a fair amount of bleeding. I could see that there had been seepage under the bandage for awhile, though I don't know when it started. (After the cast had been removed everything looked great.) I imagine I disturbed things when I removed the bandage, and thus the blood, although I tried to be as careful as possible. I have to say I was perturbed at the way things looked. I'm concerned that the swelling has broken some of the sutures, but it was difficult to tell for sure. Aside from the seeping and blood, everything looked clean. I put Novasan on the spot the cast had rubbed above the injury, and put some liquid antibiotic on the wound itself. I'm not sure what is in the antibiotic; (it is something the vet mixed and gave me for another injured horse)but I thought the wound should have something on it, and didn't think Betadine or Novasan or other cream would be right with the bleeding and seepage. I then rewrapped the wound with sterile no-stick pads and gauze, followed by cotton and vet-wrap.
I intend to call our vet Mon. a.m. He was out of town this weekend.

Is it normal with a wound like this to have so much seepage? I had expected some swelling, but a dry wound. Libby seemed a little "down" today, although she did perk up when given her "toy" of strung apples and carrots. I put her back on bute due to the swelling. (She is not running a fever, not did the leg feel hot.) She doesn't like the heel-lift, but has been putting some weight on her leg. Today it obviously was sore and she was hesitant to put weight on it at all.

Our vet doesn't have the means to do ultra-sound except the type done for pregnancy exams. Can the same small portable machine also be used for ultrasounding deep tissue/tendons? Would it be able to detect if the tendon sutures had held?

Is there anything else I should be doing for her until I can reach the vet?
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 9:47 am:

Hey Sara
I'm following your posts and hoping for a great outcome after all this. So sorry to hear about this injury, but I know you will hang in there and do all you can do to get this mare thru. From reading your posts in the past, I'm sure that this is a lucky animal to have you to care for her. One of my mares just has lately recovered from a superficial flexor tendon sprain (6 months of resting and rehab.) So, I can only imagine the long haul you are in for! Just want you to know I'm thinking about you!
And, like Christos, I was interested in finding out about the Zylazine helping with that excitement phase of a horse waking up from sedation!
Hang tough, Sara!
Nancy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 10:16 am:

Thanks, Nancy. As you know, all I want is for her to be "whole" again, no matter how long it takes; I know it will be a long haul.

I love our vet; he's a good man, knows a lot, and is willing to help no matter the day or time. However, I do wish he had more money and more up to date methods. I wonder if I should take her down to So.Cal. to a leg specialist. But, it is between a 8 - 10 hour drive (depending on traffic between Las Vegas and L.A.)and I don't know if he could do anything better or different. More modern doesn't always equal better.

btw - I remember meeting you many years ago, but can't remember what show. I do remember you were very friendly and had beautiful animals! Maybe it was in Louisville?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 10:17 am:

Oh, I'll ask about the Zylazine when I talk with the vet.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 12:30 pm:

Sara, I prefer a vet who only has a scalpel and a needle, so to say, but knows how to use it to the level of art or even miracles, rather than one who packs the very edge of technology but only sees things through a monitor.

I wouldn't expect an injury through the skin to be dry, I think draining is normal.

It is also expected that it would worsen a bit when the cast is removed, she'll try the leg and strain it a bit. So it will hurt and swell and she'll learn to be a bit careful with it. I don't think you need to worry if it is not hot and she has no fever.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 2:09 pm:

Thanks, Christos. I just worry about her, and worry that I'm not doing enough. She does seem perkier today than she was yesterday, and her swelling has gone done some, although she doesn't want to put weight on it, which I suppose is just as well.

I'm supposed to go to a show for 5 days leaving this Wednesday, but I'm thinking I'll cancel so I can stay home and doctor her. Not sure I trust my teenage barn helper to do it. I'll check with the vet when I talk with him tomorrow and then decide.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 4:28 pm:

Hello All,
The short term anesthetic ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic (think of its close cousin PCP), that scrambles the brain's ability to function properly and by itself creates an excited horse that will unsuccessfully scramble to stay up. Sedation is the job of the xylazine. It is the two working together that produce effective anesthesia. However the effects of the xylazine will sometimes wear off before all the effects of the ketamine do, leaving a horse in a excited state that attempts to rise before he is coordinated enough. By including a extra injection of sedative well into the anesthetic episode, the horse remains sedated longer and tends to be more likely to sit up and rest awhile before standing and when he finally does stand, being a bit more coordinated. For the very calm adult horse this is usually not necessary but for the less than calm it can prevent what can be a very exciting few minutes for the vet and handlers.

Sara, I am uncertain at what you are seeing (one persons "alot" might be my "a little") and what the veterinarian was expecting, so I do not know if what you are seeing is a serious complication. Blood and serum do not worry me much, the wound and tendon will heal in the presence of these. A purulent (pussy) drainage would concern me. With this much drainage I would consider changing the bandage again today, covering the draining wound with either Betadine ointment or Neosporin, making sure I hosed away all of the blood and drainage around where the wound was draining. Since you don't report increased lameness I am presuming infection is not a problem as yet.

I am not so much concerned about what he thinks about my regimen as I am in learning does he use one of the newer (and much more expensive) regimens to get recoveries he can trust a severed tendon with.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 9, 2006 - 4:49 pm:

I was wondering myself if I should change the bandage again today. There was nothing purulent looking or smelling. Just the yellow looking serum you see from open wounds mixed with fresh, red blood. (The freshness of the blood is what made me think I caused the bleeding when I changed the bandage.)

"A lot" was enough to soak through the non-stick pads and the gauze wrap. The cotton wrap (over the gauze) was wet in places, but not soaked.

Libby was more lame yesterday (and still today.) I'm sure her leg is pretty sore, but she also hates the way it feels to put weight on it with her heel so much higher than her toe. So, I'm not sure if it's the soreness or the weird feeling heel that is causing her lameness. She doesn't act too "ouchy" when you touch her leg.

The assistant who was monitoring Libby during the procedure kept a syringe taped to Libby's neck (in the vein) and would occasionally give her a little more drug. Just before they were through, she gave her a second syringe of a different drug. It never occurred to me to ask what they were giving her, but I will tomorrow.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Jul 10, 2006 - 9:16 pm:

Hey Sara
I bet we did meet at a horse show... do you know Allison Metha? She is a friend of mine who owns Egyptian Arabians. I bet you have met her, too. Anyway, thanks for the compliment, and I hope things are going well for your mare!
Nancy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 9:56 am:

I talked with my vet yesterday a.m. He gave me an antibiotic in a syringe to "inject" into the wound. It's a drug used for mastitis in dairy cows, Histamitadine I think it's called. I'll have to check the label when I go out to the barn.

I'm to change her bandage every day, but he told me NO washing off the area with ANYTHING, just wiping it off with sterile cotton, applying the antibiotic, and re-bandaging.

Libby is suddenly becoming a "pill" about eating her bute mixed in with feed, so bought some applesauce so I can mix it with the bute and give it to her orally.

No fever yesterday. Still some swelling. Sutures "popped" at top of wound but are still holding over the rest of it. It's really "goopy" Vet said this was normal synovial fluid due to fact a tendon, and therefore the tendon sheath was involved. Libby seems kind of depressed although she's eating o.k. She still will not put weight on the leg, which worries me. I can't figure out if it's the heel lift, which she dislikes, or if the leg actually is that painful.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 2:37 pm:

This has to be so hard on you, I'm so sorry...

Are you supporting her other hind leg? Or would it be better to support the diagonal? Or would it help at all?

Wishing you both strength..
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 2:47 pm:

Dear Sara,

When my horse had laminitis, he wouldn't eat his feed with Bute in it either. I tried everything...! Finally, I read somewhere to mix the crushed Bute in an equal amount of ORANGE JELLO POWDER-(straight from the box), then mix it with the feed. I did, and it worked. I never had another problem. Perhaps it kills the smell of the medication, I'm not sure.

Beau is still in the hospital. One third of his deep flexor tendon is severely damaged. Nearly the same for his superficial. I am still trying to find the time to write to Dr.O with all of my questions. Just wanted to let you know.

My very best to you and Libby! Hang in there!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 4:42 pm:

Aileen, it's her right front that's injured; and yes, we are supporting her left front with support wraps. In fact, I'm wondering if I should also wrap her hind legs as she sometimes does a kind of "bunny hop" to move around.

DJ, great idea regarding the jello. I'm going to try it.

Your poor Beau. Are they saying when he might come home? He's been in the hospital quite awhile. Poor guy! I just hope he will eventually be o.k. You "hang in there" also, and best wishes to you and Beau both! When you have time, keep us updated on him.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 4:48 pm:

Drugs used when vet did surgery were: Phenobarbital, Rompun, and Ketamine according to vet's assistant. I didn't have the opportunity to talk with the vet.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 5:34 pm:

Sorry Sara, for some reason I hear suspensory and I always think hind legs...will be thinking good healing thoughts for you both.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 8:53 pm:

No problem, Aileen. I hope I didn't sound curt. It's been a tense day around here; huge storm last night so little sleep; a couple called late yesterday and came today to look at the horses, which took much of the day; I'm concerned about Libby (and treated her) and...I have no kitchen cabinets, or pantry cabinets, and no water, as they've all been ripped out in prep for new ones. Not complaining, but makes it hard to fix meals for a husband who expects to be fed, have snacks, etc. and can't find anything unless it's where he expects it to be!! Having a glass of wine now. Will be cheery soon!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 10:43 pm:

No, you're fine... :-) I'm a little out of sorts and didn't reread what I wrote. I hope tomorrow goes better for you!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 11:34 pm:

Aileen, You too!

btw-love the picture of you and Dreamcatcher in your profile.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 6:51 am:

Thanks for the update Sara,
I have seen vet's before reluctant to flush open wounds with a hose. I believe it greatly decreases the population of bacteria in and around the wound and reduces the amount of inflammatory chemicals that may impede healing. That being as it is you should follow his instructions, perhaps there are factors here I am unaware of. If you get an opportunity, I would be interested in his reasoning.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 10:27 am:

Dr.O, I know in the past for wounds I have flushed, but none of those wounds involved the tendon. I was thinking that perhaps it was because the top of the wound was open and he doesn't want water washing away the synovial fluid. Would that make sense? I'll ask when I see him next week.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 10:38 am:

Thank you Sara, I'm holding onto that picture tightly, it was taken two years ago before his lameness issues.

Wishing you and Libby the best...I think we want to see a picture of this beautiful girl :-)
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2006 - 11:58 am:

Synovial fluid? Was the flexor tendon sheath involved also, somehow I pictured a mid cannon cut. Where on the leg is the tendon transected?
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 14, 2006 - 11:58 am:

Hello Sara, the article is up and at Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Lower Limb » Tendon Lacerations. It has a longer period to begin hand walking than the rehab article following cast removal than I have seen or used before but seems to be consistent with the latest research on the subject.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Jul 14, 2006 - 4:54 pm:

Thank you SO much, Dr. O. I'll be reading it tonight. I took some pictures last night when I changed her bandage and I'll try and get them up this evening so you can see for yourself what it looks like and the location. She is putting weight on it now for the first time since the cast came off. There is still no putrified smell and she is bright, and has never stopped eating.

Is synovial fluid found only on the flexor tendon sheath? I assumed all tendons had it. Her cut is about four inches from the fetlock.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 14, 2006 - 6:42 pm:

No, synovial fluid only occurs where there is a synovial sheath. The flexor tendons are ensheathed from a few inches above the fetlock all the way down to the foot. It is not likley to extend up 4 inches unless this is a very very large horse.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 - 12:41 am:

I'm sorry I haven't posted the pictures yet. My battery died and I couldn't find the cord for my laptop until this evening due to the mess with the remodel. (Next time I'm just going to move!)

Libby seems better. She is putting a fair amount of weight on her leg, although just for the moment it takes to take a step. She also puts a little weight on it when just standing, though just some of the time. Her favorite pastime, other than eating, is to stand facing her fan with the breeze blowing on her.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 - 10:10 am:

Sounds pretty good to me, Sara. Smart horse she is!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 - 10:15 pm:

To see pictures of Libby's injuries, please click on this site:https://photos.yahoo.com/mrosearabs

I had trouble posting the pictures for some reason.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 12:11 pm:

Sara,
I saw the pictures of Libby and there was a head shot that resembles one of mine. Annie is not purebred, so there is a difference in the refinement, but there is a similarity.

Annie age 6

Annie age 6


Annie age 18
Annie age 18

Just an interesting observation,
Kathleen
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 12:59 pm:

Kathleen, a lot of similarity! Needless to say, I think your mare is lovely!

Libby goes to the vet this afternoon. I'm very anxious to see what he says. She is putting a little more weight on the leg this morning. It has been looking so goopy and swollen that I put her on Tucoprim (sp?) this past weekend. Vet was out of town, so just did it on my own figuring it wouldn't hurt anything even if there wasn't infection. I really just want to wash the thing off, but am following my vet's orders and waiting until I see him. I started putting antibacterial powder on the rub wound from the cast and down the front of her leg, and imo it is looking a lot better.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 1:09 pm:

Oh Sara, ouch! She's a beautiful horse (and yours too Kathleen :-)) I do hope she'll get to come to Brushy Creek, I would love to meet her. She has a lot of heart as evidenced in face photo.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 9:51 pm:

Libby had a check up appointment this afternoon. She was pretty perky, even with her limp, when she thought I was taking her to pasture! It was a big disappointment when I turned toward the trailer, and she said as much by refusing to get in and trying to turn toward the fields. Who could blame her?

Vet said she was moving pretty good, and wound looked good. There is some proud flesh forming. He treated with silver nitrate sticks. He said the tendon sheath had been torn. Infact both the sheath and the tendon were pretty ragged before being treated. He is hoping the sheath will heal and regenerate on it's own.

He said I should hand walk her for about 5 mins. or so per day to keep the synovial fluid flowing and lubricating the sheath. I am to continue to re-bandage her once a day. He wants to encourage drainage. I asked about a prognosis and he said it was really too soon to tell, but hope for the best. She definitely is walking with putting weight on the leg, though of course with a severe limp still.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 - 1:08 am:

Oh, Sara! I am so glad to hear that Libby is progressing! How are you doing? I know you've had a lot going on in your household!

You both are continue to be in my thoughts, and prayers.

BTW, thanks so much for listening on Friday, you are too kind.

Remember, Beau is watching over Libby, I just know it!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 - 7:32 am:

Hello Sara,
Looking at your photos the injury is low enough to involve the synovial sheath. With an open synovial sheath I think antibiotics until closed would be prudent. This would not have kept me from hosing personally but it sounds and looks like you are making progress. Concerning the proud-flesh I would be handling it a bit different also and as you have guessed there is a article in the wound care section and as always we suggest you follow your vets recommendations. We offer it as food for thought and discussion.

The prognosis will really have to wait for some healing and ultrasound evaluation so remains much as we describe in the article for quite some time forward.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 - 10:38 am:

Dr. O., topical or oral antibiotics, or both?

In your opinion, is an ultrasound evaluation necessary for evaluation? Or can a fairly accurate one be done by manually examining the area? (I will have to make an appointment either in San Diego,or Los Alamos, CA to get one - both at least 7 - 8 hrs. away.) In what time frames?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 - 11:12 am:

Hmmmm, just re-read your article on tendon lacerations, and see that you do feel u.s. is important when evaluating healing, so I'll make an appointment. Considering that I'm not going to be able to make the trip very often, and that it will be a long ride for Libby, at what stages would you recommend she be ultrasounded?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2006 - 7:42 am:

Ultrasound will give you much, much more information than a digital exam. A good one can actually tell you something about the quality of the healing. The rehab article suggest one prior to anytime you are considering a major increase in work load. On the other hand I would not haul a horse with a tendon injury for even a few hours to get one. It makes no sense to put the horse at major risk for further injury just to see if there has been some healing. You may have to fly by the seat of your pants.
DrO
Member:
Djws

Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 1:38 am:

Sara-

How is Libby doing? And you?

Thanks for your e-mail, and for listening! You're an angel!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 11:41 am:

Unless it was absolutely necessary, I wouldn't haul her anywhere either, so guess we'll just have to hope for the best.

She worried me yesterday as she was lying down a lot, at least a lot more than she had been. I had to go to Las Vegas overnight and I was frightened that she had somehow done something to cause a "set-back" but I think she just was enjoying the deep shavings. It was very hot and humid for this area and I guess a nice long nap just was "called for." She got up and ate and was able to go outside and munch grass while I cleaned her stall (I tied her to the fence while I cleaned.)

Her wound is still draining, which the vet wanted it to continue doing. I'm changing the bandage once a day and padding it pretty good so there's a lot of absorbative. As per vet's request am only putting antibiotic cream on and into the wound every other day. I have kept her on the second course of Tucaprim, which will be done in a couple of days, as a preventative. I'm just so paranoid about her getting an infection.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 1:27 pm:

How much bute is too much? Libby is acting very sore in the rear. Ever since she injured herself she has been standing a lot with her left rear leg cocked. I don't know if it is sore, maybe was also injured, or if she just likes to rest that way. I can find no heat or swelling in it.

For a while she was moving around pretty good; now she is lying down a lot, and seems weak in the rear end - kind of wobbly when she moves, and tries to hop instead of walk. And is lying down a lot. She was also sweating in the flanks and whinnying softly to me whenever she'd see me like she wanted me to do something for her.

When I give her bute she is much more comfortable. I have been giving her 3 grams each night as per vet's instructions, but yesterday started her on 2 grams am and pm. Vet is gone until Monday. Is this too much? She seems much more comfortable when given this dosage.

She is running no fever and the wound looks pretty good imo. There is still swelling around the fetlock, and a little in her knee, but no heat. It is still seeping, but not as much. She seems bright and is eating good.

It has been terribly hot and humid for our climate. Just miserable for animals and people alike. I have two fans rigged up in her stall which helps some, and keeps away the flies. Maybe she is lying down and sweating in part due to the heat, although none of the other horses are.

She goes back to the vet mid-week for another check-up.
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 5:01 pm:

Hi Sara, I feel for you. It is so frustrating to worry so much. The heat has been horrible here as well. I have been hosing my horses off at least once a day. I have 6 fans going in the barn.
It seems that I was told not to give Levi more than 2 grams a bute per day, and he is a big boy.
Can you work in some massage therapy into her recovery. It worked well with Cody years ago when he had surgery. I actually had a lady come out who worked on him for almost 2 hours. She then showed me pressure points etc. to work on to help with pain relief, etc.
My 2 dark horses are way more sweat ridden than my other guys.
Good luck and hang in there
suz
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 5:05 pm:

Good to hear the wound heals well, Sara.

Being stiff on the hind end, lying down a lot and sweating around the flanks sounds like colic. Do not forget that being on bute makes symptoms a lot milder.

The cocked hind leg means nothing, really, many horses like to balance on the good diagonal when a front leg is injured.
This is, I believe the reason they hurt the good front leg. You may want to support that leg with a bandage.
She may, actually, be lying down from the good front being tired as well. Do keep an eye on it.

3 grams of bute in one dose for several days or 2 grams twice daily is pushing it a bit. What is her weight?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:06 pm:

Susan, we have been rubbing her down with liniment wash and using "Sore No More" on her good legs. I'd love to hose her down, but need to wait for o.k. from vet as don't want to get the wound wet when he's told me not to. Message therapy would be good. I think I'll see if I can find a therapist. There's a woman in the area who does electromagnetic therapy (I think it's called that) but I'd have to take Libby to her place. I've had her work on a couple of my other horses and they love it. They just DrOop and fall asleep while she's working on them.

Christos, Colic was my first thought when I saw Libby down. But, there's no sign of thrashing or rolling, or any other signs of colic, and she'll even eat while lying down. She weighs about 1000lbs. In Dr. O's article on lacerated tendons, he says to use Bute aggressively. I just don't know how aggressive "aggressively" is. I worry, too, about her stomach when she's on Bute, but just can't bare to see her in pain and don't know what else to do for her. I'm concerned there may be something else going on with her, but don't know what. Of course, I'm the original "worry wart" when as far as the horses are concerned! Libby's "good" front leg is wrapped, btw, and I'm thinking I should wrap her other legs, too. Do you think polo wraps are supportive enough, or should I go to standing leg wraps?

Gosh, having an injured/sick horse is as bad as having the boys injured or sick when they were little. Maybe worse. I could usually get in touch with and ER nurse at least.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:09 pm:

Christos, Libby isn't so much stiff in the rear end as weak and wobbly, like her hind end might give out and collapse, or like she thinks it might. Also, when she is like this it seems a bit "spastic."
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:52 pm:

I'd prefer standing wraps, Sara. I believe pressure distribution is better, so I find them more suitable for long term use.

I believe DrO says to use bute aggressively to control swelling and bring the horse in a level of pain it can tolerate well, not to eliminate pain altogether.

Can it be that she's somehow dizzy from bute? I remember a mare on 3 gr daily for a week and she looked kind of stoned, but could be irrelevant to the bute, she was a weird animal anyway.

How long has Libby been on 3 gr daily?
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:57 pm:

Well, this is interesting...my vet told me Brave would do fine on 2 grams am and pm...I didn't, just one pm...he's 15.3 and 1174, would that make a difference?

I do know that next time I will double the ulcerguard dose, he wasn't acting like himself toward the end there. Two days off the bute and his personality was back...

Maybe try some gastroguard? Or are you already doing that?
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 8:27 pm:

Sara,

I don't think I would use more than 2 grams 2X daily for 1000lb horse. Less if I could.

Is she maybe dehydrated? That would make her shaky and weak acting.

She may have another injury also you suspect? (I don't recall what initailly happened to her) Perhaps the stall rest is causing the other injury that is affecting the rear end to flare up? Oh, I see she went into a bucking spell also....hmmmm......so she could have hurt her back, or a back leg also and with all the attention being on the front leg, no one noticed. And maybe if she would have been moving around in pasture instead of on stall rest you would have noticed this other problem sooner. Or maybe she would have "walked it off".

Have you tried really massaging her back, her haunches and back legs?

These lameness things are so frustrating without dealing with a wound like Libby's also.

Hang in thar Sara!!! This too shall pass.

(((hugs))) take care
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 10:37 pm:

Thanks, all.

Christos, she was on 3 grams 1xday, given at night, initially for a week per the vets orders. I DrOpped her down to 2 grams after the first week as she seemed to be doing good on that amount. Then, after she was putting weight on the leg and seeming to do really good on it, I took her off bute for a few days to see how she'd do. After a couple of days with no bute she started acting really sore again, so I put her back on 2 grams per day. This didn't seem to help her at all, and she started to act sore in the rear end. When giving her either 2 or 3 grams at night, by morning it seems to have all worn off and she acts very sore, can barely move around, hops on her rear legs instead of moving forward on three legs, lies down a lot, and when she gets up has a very hard time moving with her hind end wobbley, etc. If I give her 2 grams a.m. and p.m., which I've only done today, she acts much better. She stands much of the day in her fan's breeze, eats and drinks good, and walk around her stall limping, of course, but pretty steady.

Aileen, I don't have her on ulcerguard as I am hoping she will only be on bute a short time. Maybe I should put her on it?

Angie, I wonder about another injury to her back or rear end somewhere. But, although limping severely on her right front leg, she never acted sore or lame in the rear end until just recently. I've been trying to decide if I should take her out and walk her around on the grass to see how she moves, but have been concerned that I'd get her out and not be able to get her back in. Several days ago I had her out on the grass, tied to the fence for awhile so she could nibble, and she did good and enjoyed it. Maybe I should just ignore the way she moves and try her out there again.

Of course, maybe she's just becoming a spoiled brat and all this is a ploy for more attention and when I'm not around she may move just fine! (I wish!)
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 11:26 pm:

LOL..maybe, I know I have a spoiled brat on my hands...but then again if I ask the right questions I always find something wrong unfortunately.

Is she used to being on turnout? Was she on grass a lot? If stall rest isn't a huge change for her, I would think she'd be ok for a short while. Brave's ulcers got really bad on stall rest... but his was 3 months...

If you can hand graze her, I think that would help any belly issues (if there are any, I mean) and it's good for her mind too :-)
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 6:42 am:

A couple of important points. First is that bute demonstrably works better with doses given twice daily. A recent interesting study did bring questions as to whether higher doses above 1 gram twice brought increase pain relief but I believe the cause of the pain was non-inflammatory.

NSAID toxicity has to be balanced against the possible break down of the opposite foot with the increased weight bearing. Right now it sounds like you are requiring 2 g twice daily but with 3 days of doing better you should try 1.5 g twice daily for 3 days. I have also seen some veterinary hospitals discharge with instructions of rotating 5 days bute then 2 days flunixin but have not seen any work to support this practice.

Oh and concerning the abiotic use, recently we have seen two horses on these boards that developed serious infectious tenosynovitis so this is not a minor deal.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 9:59 am:

Hey Sara
I am keeping up with you and Libby. Maybe she is spasming in the back, possibly from the movements which caused the injury itself as well as the fact that she now has to try to walk a certain way to make up for the inability to use the actual injured leg... sounds like the massage therapy already mentioned might help her. AND, I would DEFINITELY add Gastrogard to your regimine, with the confinement, stress, and drugs, ulcers would not be uncommon, as you know.
I feel terrible for you when I read all that you and Libby are going thru. The heat has been awful enough to deal with, but add a fragile horse to that mix, and instantly more frustration. At least we are not having cool, frosty mornings, which would cause an Arabian to snort and blow, which seems to be what got Libby into this predicament in the first place.
Keep on keepin' on, Sara!
Nancy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 10:32 am:

So, Dr. O,in your opinion, should I continue on the Tucaprim, or get her another antibiotic? She has had two five day courses of it now. One right after her surgery per vet's instructions, and one she finished three days ago which was given on my on initiative.

I'll give her 2gr. of bute 2x today, and then try cutting her back to 1.5 gr 2x/day tomorrow and see how she does.

I have to call today for an appointment for her check up this week. I'll call and see if our vet has gastroguard in stock. If not, I'll order some. It certainly won't hurt her. If she appears up for it, I'll try and get her out to munch grass while I clean her stall this a.m. (She has to walk about 100'.)

She has remained bright and alert and except for one day she has been eating good.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 10:49 am:

Nancy, you have a good thought. I've been concentrating on her legs so much I've barely noticed her back. But she has been walking "weird" and shifting more weight to the back; I'll try getting a therapist and in the meantime will rub her back myself with some linamint. If nothing else, it will feel good to her.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 8:49 am:

I would continue antibiotics if either there is unexplained pain or the sheath remains open. I would continue them till the pain abates and I was convinced the sheath was closed then add 3 more days. However this should be done under your vets supervision.

If it were me I would switch and would first consider the use of Treatments and Medications for Horses » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Baytril (Enrofloxacin) and the Fluoroquinolones. Best would be to get a culture from the wound and see what is growing there and what it is sensitive to. This should be done before the antibiotic switch but should not postpone the continued use of antibiotic.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 10:27 am:

Thanks, Dr. O. I will be talking with vet today. Yesterday was a state holiday and no one was in his office. He will be seeing Libby later on this week.

There is still a little synovial fluid leaking out, and wound still bleeds a little when I change bandages. It is almost closed over, though. Swelling was down yesterday to almost normal size fetlock. She went out on a lead and munched on the grass for about 15 mins. while I cleaned her stall. She puts some weight on her leg, but still shifts much of her weight to her rear end when she moves, which is probably why she is acting sore in the back end.

I did put standing wraps on her all the way around. She was still on 2 gr bute 2x/day but I'm going to DrOp her down to 1.5 grams 2x/day today and see how it goes. It isn't supposed to be quite as hot today, either, which should help her some, too. I think feeling crummy when it's hot and humid just makes you feel even worse and think it's the same for horses. Am hoping vet gives go-ahead for her to have a nice bath.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 11:13 pm:

Well, Libby had her vet appointment last this afternoon. He (and I) are both baffled and frustrated as she seems to be worse, not better. The wound looks good. Just a little blood coming from it when the bandage is changed, and a little seepage on the bandage, no heat or swelling at the site of the wound at all.

BUT - Libby still won't put weight on her foot at all if she can help it. She is putting less weight on it than she did when first injured. When she had the cast on, she put weight on her leg. Right after the cast was removed, she put some weight on her leg, though not as much as with the cast on. She seemed not to like the elevated heel, and seemed just relunctant to walk on it.

It seems like from then on, the limping has gradually gotten worse until by last weekend she would put no weight on it at all and started spending more time lying down.

Her knee is just a little puffy, but there is no heat. She is also puffy around her coronet band, and her fetlock area is swollen and hard. She acts like there is pain when the fetlock is bent back and forth.

Farrier came and removed shoe after first testing for "hot" nails. After shoe and wedge pad were removed, he used hoof testers on her, but go no reaction.

It was interesting, however, that when vet went to take x-rays, Libby would not put her foot flat until we put a thick foam pad down, then she would stand with her foot flat, but still almost no weight on it.

X-rays showed no chips or breaks or anything else. Vet is concerned that perhaps there is more damage done to ligiments or tendons in the foot/coronet band/fetlock area. Physical exam, though, didn't really show much. She doesn't really act tender to touch or movement, except a little when, like I said, her fetlock is bent back and forth.

There is really no way to see what else might be involved except by taking her to Las Vegas (maybe a vet there, though it sounded like my vet was a bit doubious re: his skills reading the sonograms. He said it really takes a lot of "talent" to read them correctly; that there's a lot more involved than just "taking a picture."

Las Vegas would be about three and a half hours, at best, with temps. between 108 and 112. Once there, if something showed up, what could be done about it? Or would it just be a matter of "Wait and see?" The other option is the specialty clinic in S. California, which is at least 7 or 8 hrs., again in heat....not esp. cool even at night down I-15 and I-10, which is way I'd have to go. And, what could they do for her? Anything? Should I at least call and talk with them?

Vet put DMSO and a medication he used before on our stallion. I've forgotten the name of it and will have to look at the bottle when I go to the barn. He re-wrapped the leg, and then taped a thick foam pad onto the bottom of her foot. He approved of the 1.5 gr. of bute 2x/day and suggested that I turn her out in soft footing and see if she won't move around on her own more than she has when on a lead. So, tonight I'll leave her stall door open and let her go in and out. Her pen is about 20' x 25' and her stall 14'x 16' so that will give her a fair amount of room to move around in. I'll leave a buddy in the next pen & maybe Libby will hang out and visit with her.

My vet is really stumped and frustrated and very disapointed. He had expected to see a lot of improvement. He said he's had other injuries similar to Libby's and they've healed up without this lameness she is exhibiting.

My husband thinks maybe she is just a baby and wuss and is afraid it will hurt, so won't put weight on it now. I guess that's a thought; but I doubt it. She's have forgotten about her injury while munching grass and walked on it I think.

I'm ashamed to say I forgot all about asking about putting her back on antibiotics, so I will call and ask tomorrow morning. (I also had our dog there, and had to pick him up, and had to go over a lab report on one of our old cats.)

I did ask about putting Libby on gastroguard, and he asked if she'd been showing any signs of ulcers and she hasn't. So, he said he didn't think she needed to be on it. He said if she goes off feed, starts acting a little colicky, etc. then I should give it to her. I know this doesn't agree with what I've read here & what's been suggested to me by others. Maybe I should have pushed a little more; I'm sure he would have given me a script for it.

Any good advice other than what is in your articles? It would be appreciated. Of course, what I want someone to tell me, is that it will just take time and Libby will be fine. But, I know that is impossible!

Forgive spelling errors, please. Know there's a few. I'm hurrying as need to go do grain. check water, and tuck everyone in for the night.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 6:45 am:

Before you can know what to do to make your horse well you sometimes have to know what the problem is. Sara, continued pain sufficient to cause the horse to be non-weight bearing in a wound with a history of a synovial laceration is often an infection of the synovial sheath. Tapping the sheath (following surgical prep of the are you are tapping) distal to the wound and examining the fluid should be diagnostic for the problem.
DrO
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 8:13 am:

Oh Sara,

How awful!! You were hoping, and in need of better news here.

I brought this up to post to you, and hadn't read DrO's reply; but, I was thinking the same thing. She must have an infection somewheres yet. I really think she would forget about the discomfort otherwise and want to move around more. For some reason she doesn't want to, and maybe this is natures way of helping keep the infection more local? Hey, nature works in mysterious ways, so it's possible. (and we know how smart these Arabs are, right?)

Is what DrO suggests possible to do locally? I don't think trailering her in the heat/humidity is going to be very helpful in her condition. Of course you can try the antibiotic for that infection without knowing if that is it or not.

YOU stay cool, and get some rest too. You can only do so much and then you have to just step back and wait.

(((HUGS)))

(o.k., now we are both sweaty from hugging, lol!)
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 10:01 am:

Man oh man, Sara. This REALLY IS a long haul for you and Libby! I was hoping for better news, too. Hopefully, DrO will be right on about the infection of the Synovial Sheath. Hopefully, you can address that and treat it, and then things will turn around for you... looking forward to the day when you can post good news!
CC the ulcers, I would go ahead with a preventative dose, as Libby has all the "right things" going on to create ulcers. That is confinement, stress (including infection,hot weather to contend with, pain, etc), as well as the drugs that you have to use to fix everything else going on! She well may not have ulcers YET, but.... My horse with chronic gastric ulcers developed them due to all of the same factors that Libby is experiencing, only his pain was from an eye problem instead of the leg problem. The vets did not/ would not treat for ulcers until he started exhibiting symptoms and then he was in such trouble that he is now prone to episodes, when he never had a single sick day in his life until the ulcers. His eye is FINE now, but the ulcers are another story. One of his surgeons at the hospital where he had his eye surgeries has said that Red Alert has changed forever the way he treats eye surgeries, ie horses that have to have long periods of drugs, pain, stall confinement! He just adds Gastrogard to the regimine now! Of course, Libby may be one of the lucky ones who do not develop ulcers, but the only sure way to know would be to scope her farther along down the line. I hate to disagree with your vet, but.... And I really, really really do not want to add anymore worry to your life. You have plenty of that going on, so please take my advice as some advice from a well meaning friend, and toss it if you disagree! No matter what you decide to do, I will be wishing you the best. It is obvious that Libby is a very lucky little lady to have an owner like you! Hang in there (to BOTH of you!)
Nancy
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 10:10 am:

Oh Sara, I'm so sorry you didn't get better news!

I agree with Nancy, think about it...you do not need a prescription to get ulcerguard. I would think that just the maintenance dose would be sufficient if she's showing no signs.

Good luck, Sara, you'll figure this out!!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 10:26 am:

I'll be calling our vet in a few more minutes and will discuss with him the tap. I think it's a good idea. Reading what Nancy has to say and adding it to my gut feelings I'll order gastrogard for her. I thought you had to have a prescription for it and know our vet would give one to me...he felt so bad yesterday he'd have done anything...but I just didn't feel like arguing with him.

I'll let you know about the tap.

On a good note, I left Libby's stall door open last night, and she really enjoyed being out. She wasn't real happy about coming in this a.m., but due to heat and flies, I put her in anyway. Her attitude is good - a bit feisty, in fact.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 10:19 pm:

Vet and I kept missing each other all morning. I called again in the afternoon and spoke with one of the assistants. She said vet wants to put Libby on TMP/SMZ tablets, 15 tabs 2x/day, through the weekend, and he wants to see her Monday afternoon. If she isn't showing signs of improvement by then, he wants me to leave her at the clinic so he can flush out her leg every day for several days. I wasn't able to talk with our vet personally, and the assistant didn't know if he'd be doing a tap for fluid or not.

My husband picked up the meds for me. They aren't labeled as to strength. One of the assistants put them in baggies, one for each day but didn't write on the baggies the strength of the pills.
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 11:26 pm:

Sara, been following your post. Nothing to add, just that we are sending positive thoughts your way. At least it sounds like you have another plan. I'm sure it is so frustrating, but you have been such a trooper at getting Libby on the road to a full recovery. Be sure to take care of yourself, it can be very draining worrying about these kids!
suz
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 28, 2006 - 11:36 pm:

Fiesty is good! I echo Susan's comments, take care of yourself too...hang in there...
Member:
Djws

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 12:06 am:

Sara-

This is EXACTLY the medication that they sent home with Beau, after his first surgery. The tablets are 960 mg. He was to be on the medication for 2 weeks (as you know, he returned to the hospital after 3 days, and was put back on IV antibiotics).

I won't boggle you with all of the details. I will however, get busy, and send all of the info to Dr. O over the weekend. It may help, I don't know. I have been wanting to send a time line, discharge summaries, etc. to him anyway. It may help someone, somewhere, someday.

If you would like me to scan, or fax, all of the info I have to you, I will.

Sara, I wanted so much to suggest that you have Libby checked for a tendon sheath infection. I thought you would feel I was being paranoid after Beau's illness.

I don't know where your nearest hospital is, but I would take Libby there NOW. We were told the earlier the sheath is flushed, regional limb perfusion is performed, IV antibiotics, pain meds, etc., administered, the better chance a horse has. IF Libby does have an infected tendon sheath, she will most likely need all of the above.

I am not trying to frighten you, Sara.

All of the symptoms that Libby is exhibiting, is what Beau did. They did his tap immediately upon arriving at the University, and within one hour he was in surgery. The vet felt it was an emergency because of his WBC/Neutrophils count.

Sara, I don't know much about horses, you know that. I know that I love Beau with all of my heart. I am pleading with you to take Libby to the hospital, or at least, get the tap done NOW. Something is telling me strongly to suggest this. You told me Beau would speak to me again...

Can the tap be done where you are? That would, at least, tell you if she has an infection.

Beau would seem better, then worse. He bounced back, and forth, for a month.


I couldn't link this article, so, I am sending it to you this way. This, and Dr. O's article helped me understand Beau's problem better. If I had known then, what I know now...maybe Beau would still be here.

This was written by Marcia King/The Horse Magazine/Article title: Keep Them Moving

NOTE THE LAST TWO PARAGRAPHS.


Like keeping the pistons of an engine lubricated for smooth, easy movement, the tendon sheaths of a horse function similarly by providing a friction-free environment in which tendons can move. But if the lubricant becomes fouled, engine malfunction follows. It's the same with a horse's tendons. That can mean big-time problems: Neither the four-wheeled or four-legged vehicle will run without serious repair!

Tendons run down the front and back of a horse's lower limb. Clinical signs of septic tenosynovitis include swelling of the limb and tendon sheath due to excess fluid, heat, pain on palpation, and lameness.


The tendon sheath is a fluid-filled sleeve that envelops and lubricates the tendon and provides an environment in which the tendon can smoothly move and change direction where there is joint movement. But if sheath-penetrating injury occurs, infection can follow. Even a simple wound can become septic, putting the horse at risk for permanent lameness and even death.

Septic Insights

Septic tenosynovitis, or a septic tendon sheath, describes an infection that produces inflammation in a tendon sheath. Usually caused by a puncture, laceration, or trauma, septic tenosynovitis most often occurs in the digital tendon sheath (behind the fetlock) and the tarsal sheath (behind the hock), as these are the structures most likely involved with punctures or lacerations. Additionally, infection can occur when an aseptic tenosynovitis (an uninfected tendon sheath wound) becomes infected following a therapeutic injection into the sheath, although this is very rare.

Nathaniel A. White II, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACVS, Director of the Marion duPont Scott Equine Medical Center, Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine, and Theodora Ayer Randolph Professor of Surgery, further explains septic tenosynovitis: "Bacteria or other contaminants can invade the sheath as a consequence of an injury. Once there, these contaminants inoculate the synovial fluid and lining, allowing bacterial growth and subsequent infection. Because the tendon sheath has synovial fluid within the sheath, the infection can fulminate (explode) and become trapped within the sheath. As there is always movement of the tendon within the sheath with weight bearing and walking, the wound or traumatized area is irritated."

Swelling, pain, and marked lameness result. The condition can be acute or chronic.

"Chronic tenosynovitis starts out as an acute problem due to some initiating problem," White says. "Tenosynovitis can fester for a long, long time, for two reasons. First, the sheath responds to inflammation by producing fibrin, a protein normally found in the blood and the primary component of blood clots; this is a normal inflammatory response. In the tendon sheath, however, this can lead to permanent adhesions, which prevent normal movement of the tendon through the sheath. The sheath can be fully healed and not painful, but because the tendon is tied up due to the adhesions and unable to move properly, the horse can end up with stiffness or lameness."

The second reason acute tenosynovitis can become chronic is when the bacteria or contaminants become encapsulated within the sheath. "Essentially, you have bacteria hidden from the rest of the body," White explains. "It looks like you've cured the problem, but down the line the horse suffers a relapse and more infection."

Clinical signs of septic tenosynovitis include tendon sheath and limb swelling due to excess fluid, heat, pain on palpation, and lameness. "Normally a wound is present and synovial fluid from the sheath may be seen draining from the wound," White adds.

Diagnosis is usually straightforward and is based on clinical signs (sheath swelling) and sampling fluid from the sheath. "The fluid from the infected sheath will be cloudy and often red-tinged (compared to normal fluid, which is yellow and clear)," says White. "There will be more white blood cells and protein than normal in the fluid. The increased number of white blood cells is sufficient to suggest an infection, but culture of the bacteria with an antibiotic sensitivity test is desired to provide the appropriate treatment." Ultrasound can often help visualize and confirm extra fluid in the sheath.

Two conditions can obscure the diagnosis. "If the horse has an infection not only in the sheath but also subcutaneously (just beneath the skin), where the whole limb swells up with infection, then the diagnosis can be much more difficult because you've got an infection of the tissues underneath the skin (cellulitis) that can cover up the tendon sheath infection," White says. "The veterinarian might think it's just cellulitis, not a septic tendon sheath."

And with infection in the subcutaneous tissues, passing a needle into the tendon sheath to aspirate fluid risks carrying the infection into an uninfected tendon sheath.

Continues White, "The other time when it's sometimes difficult to get an accurate diagnosis is when the wound enters the tendon sheath and all the fluid drains out; the sheath itself can look totally normal, the leg looks fine, and yet you're still at the stage when you can start to have infection. The veterinarian dresses the wound and administers antibiotics, then three days later, the wound is sealed because of the fibrin and the tendon sheath is hot and swollen with infection. To see if a wound penetrated the tendon sheath, we recommend injecting sterile balanced electrolyte solution into the sheath to see if it drains out of the wound. Any drainage indicates sheath penetration and the chance for injury or infection. If it does, you need to treat it aggressively, early, and either prevent the infection or treat the infection before it becomes chronic."

Dealing With It

Treatment begins with local and systemic antibiotic therapy and flushing the wound with a sterile balanced electrolyte solution. "We often recommend using the arthroscope to examine the sheath to remove fibrin and to examine the tendons for damage," White advises. "Injection of hyaluronic acid after the flush, and regional perfusion with antibiotics or a constant infusion of antibiotics, are also recommended. Open drainage of the sheath has sometimes been recommended, but will often cause chronic tenosynovitis. This is used when the acute therapy is not able to cure the infection."

Treatment is often handled at a referral center because of the need for flushing and the possibility of surgery required to look inside the sheath.

Resting the horse until the inflammation is gone is essential. "That could be a couple of weeks or it could be a couple of months, depending on the severity, whether the tendon has been injured, and how quickly the treatment is effective," White says.

There is debate about whether the area should be immobilized with a cast or bandage. White notes that some texts recommend keeping the area mobile to avoid adhesions or scars. "This is a delicate issue because if you mobilize an inflamed sheath too soon and too often, you potentially will keep it inflamed and cause more adhesions," he says. "On the other hand, mobilizing the sheath at the right time helps bring normal physiology back to the sheath. You don't want to mobilize the sheath before it can manage the inflammation. I'm not sure I have a formula, except I'm very conservative and will rest the horse, keep a bandage in place for support, start walking the horse for very short periods, and over time increase the amount of walking."

Prognosis varies from complete resolution to permanent lameness, chronic relapses, or death. Of the horses treated over the years at the Equine Medical Center, most achieved total resolution.

"But septic tenosynovitis is life threatening and needs to be treated aggressively," White warns. "Early treatment is best to ensure total resolution without adhesions and scarring of the tendons within the sheath. If the sheath has severe trauma with or without tendon injury, even with immediate treatment scarring and adhesions may occur."

Risk Reduction

Although septic tendon sheaths are not especially common, they aren't rare either. Therefore, the horse owner should seek immediate veterinary attention for any wound/injury near a joint or tendon sheath. "Immediate treatment could prevent occurrence of infection and the severe inflammatory reaction that leads to the permanent damage," White says. "This is a serious disease that can cause permanent, debilitating lameness, so early treatment is essential. Although it costs more to fully evaluate the problem, waiting until complications arise will increase the cost and decrease the prognosis.

"Septic tenosynovitis is one of the toughest local infections we deal with," White continues. "Particularly, the tendon sheaths around the hocks are difficult to cure; they're very discouraging and frustrating, as you have an isolated pocket that is hard to drain and to prevent inflammation. Frankly, I think septic tenosynovitis is a huge emergency that needs to be treated very aggressively, very early. Our results show that in the early phase--meaning immediately upon having wounding or within the next few days--is really a critical period. Once the wound becomes chronic, you may save the horse, but you often end up with chronic (tendon) scarring.

"We've had what appeared to be very simple wounds that turn out to be horrible septic tenosynovitis," he says. "If there is any chance a tendon sheath may be involved, you should step up a notch in your diagnostics and care."



I am so worried for you, and Libby. Genuinely concerned. Please don't be angry for my being so forward.

If my little bit of knowledge, and experience with Beau can help one horse...I hope it's Libby.

You were there for us, we were guided to you, remember?

Maybe THIS was the reason.

My thoughts, prayers, and hopes are with you.

PS: I know it's hot there. If I could come and fan Libby all the way to the hospital, I would. Does anyone have any suggestions on keeping a horse cool, while traveling in extreme heat?

Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 12:06 am:

Yes, feisty is good! Libby is a sweet girl, but certainly has a mind of her own and doesn't mind expressing it!!

For what ever reason, the antibiotics were easier to get down than the apple flavored bute. It's a matter of principle; she made up her mind long ago she hated the bute, and has to stick to her guns!

She has to stay in tonight, as does everyone, as severe storms are headed our way - the western sky is really putting on a light show.

Trying to get enough sleep, and enough wine. Husband is being sweet and not complaining about 2 microwaved dinners in a row.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 2:01 am:

Dr. O-

Marnie's horse, Pepsi, and my horse, Beau, both suffered from Septic Synovitis, Tenosynovitis Sepsis (however they term it), and both lost the battle.

Can a tendon sheath tap be performed on Sara's premises, or does it have to be at a hospital/clinic setting?

Once a sheath infection is suspected, isn't it imperative that a tap be done immediately?

Isn't starting time of treatment a precious commodity with (the possibility of) this type of infection?

Do oral antibiotics work aggressively enough in the initial stage of infection? Wouldn't an injection, or intravenous loading dose boost the efficiency of the oral drugs? Will the oral antibiotics mask the results of a tap?

Would the risk of hauling a horse in extreme heat outweigh what a hospital could possibly do to help combat a possible medical emergency?

Dr.O, your opinion is highly respected, and you carry the most weight on HA. After all, you are the expert, the doctor we choose daily. I find your articles, and advice, invaluable.

You are the educated vet, I just have a gut feeling. I hope you will encourage Sara to take Libby to a hospital ASAP.

I do believe it would have made a difference with my Beau. Time is of the essence, don't you think?

Note: I only had to haul Beau for 3 hours, in 90 degree heat. He had an elevated temp each time after being hauled (to and from the hospital). Ironically, it was the only time he had antipyretic activity during his illness (WBC 37,500/Neutrophils 96%). Would traveling in heat cause the temp to spike?

Thanks, Dr. O.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 9:29 am:

The problem DJ is that your case, resources, circumstance, and possibly goals may not be the same as Sara's. It is not our job to persuade her to do as we wish but to present the facts so that she can make up her mind. She needs to do this with the help of the information we present in consultation with her veterinarian. I am very worried about Libby and I will use your post as a jostle for Sara on the seriousness of the condition, DJ.

You will find the answer to most of your questions in the article on Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Joint & Bone Diseases » Joint Infection, Joint Ill, and Septic Arthritis. Though the title suggests joint disease, the principles apply to any synovial sheath.

As to whether this could be carried out on her farm, that would depend on the conditions found there but a clean dust free environment is required. Traveling in very hot weather certainly can cause a horse's body heat to increase.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 10:08 am:

DJ
That was a VERY INFORMATIVE post. I learned a lot, and I'm sure that Sara will take it under advisement. It was unbelievably caring for you to post all of that... Beau is with you.
And, Sara, I'm sure you already do this, but, I haul horses in the wee hours of the morning (and night) in order to haul at the best possible times, temperature wise. I know it is a pain in the butt, and even dangerous in a way, but I'm sure that one more pain in the butt episode for you, will be just one more item to add to your list of "things to do for Libby" list. I do a lot of hauling alone, but recommend that you have someone with you if at all possible...
Many prayers surround you and Libby,
Nancy
Member:
9193

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 12:58 pm:

Hi Sara,

I have been following your posts and I just want to add my support and caring for you and Libby. Your care, concern and love for her is evident in all you are doing for her.

I don't have any suggestions that are that different from any that have been suggested before except that I have found that making up grain baggies with my horse's bute a week at a time has made his taking the bute orally a lot easier. I don't know if the moisture from the grain absorbs the bute or if the bitterness is masked better, but he eats the grain with bute better if it has been in the grain for a couple of days. ( I also use the apple flavored bute)

I was also going to second the idea that if you need to trailer Libby to the vet again that you consider going at night or really early in the morning... I had to trailer a friend's horse to a rehab facility last week which was a few miles north of Sacramento, CA. The temp had been 116 the day before and we left EARLY to get there and the temp was 100 when we arrived at 10am. The heat wave seems to have broken here on the coast, but inland is still pretty high.

I will continue to follow your posts. I have no doubt that many of us are sending you and Libby caring and concern every time we log on.

Hugs and Caring,
Debra
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 3:38 pm:

Sara, you must feel so very overwhelmed...hang in there, you will do the right thing for your girl. We are all sure of that!

It sounds like you're going to get your rain :-) I'm hoping no lightening for you though!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 7:49 pm:

Dr. O, I am torn. I have the utmost respect for you and have read your articles. I will re-read the ones you just mentioned today as it's been awhile since I read them.

I also have a lot of respect for my vet here. He is limited mainly by his lack of facilities, not lack of knowledge imo. He has saved the lives of two of my horses, and has, in the past, been ready to reccommend I go to a specialty clinic when he felt the problem was beyond his capabilities.

I can't do anything with Libby over the weekend, so I have that time to make up my mind. She is on the oral antibiotics, which should hold an infection "at bay" I would hope until Monday, if there is an infection.

If I go ahead and have our vet do the tap here, it would be done in a clean enviornment, where he does his surgeries. I'm sure precautions would be taken to keep the area and her leg as clean as possible.

DJ, I appreciate your concern and your taking the time to post in such detail. And, I enjoy and appreciate your emails, also. I don't know how Libby's case differs from Beau's. I don't know yet if there is infection, or if there is something else going on with her. Now that she has a pad on her foot, she is actually moving a little bit better today and putting just a little weight on the leg, which she hasn't been doing for several days. So, I kind of wonder if there isn't some soreness in the foot itself instead of the leg; if we haven't been treating the most obvious injury, and there is an other injury which was initially less obvious, but which is coming to a head now.

My goal, of course, is for Libby to be sound again. Cost and my time are not issues. But, I am hesitant to spend thousands of dollars and put her through a long trailer ride if it's not going to help her. I would, of course, travel at night through the deserts; but the ride would be difficult for her even without the heat. My choices of a vet hospital would be either Dr. Snow's clinic or Alamo Pintada Clinic, both near Santa Barbara, CA,600 mi away; UC Davis, in Davis, CA 750 mi; or CSU in Fort Collins, CO. 650 mi.away over the Rockies. The latter trip would involve some very twisty, slow sections of highway over two mountain passes. Southern CA is a better route, but involves driving in LA area traffic and one mountain pass.
Davis, while a wonderful facility, invloves crossing the NV desert, which takes close to 8 hrs. (done it plenty of times with healthy horses) and crossing the Sierras. All of the interstates have very rough sections due to heavy truck traffic. I just feel where ever I took her, it would be an arduous trip for her. I want to be positive such a trip is necessary before I commit to taking it.

She still has a very good attitude. I let her out to nibble grass while I throughly cleaned her stall today, and was surprised at how much ground she covered while keeping her nose to the grass. She was slow but steady in her munching and enjoyed it a lot.

No rain! All around us huge storms. Our irrigation ditches were flooding; and the big drainage ditch from the creek that comes off the mountain was up over the road. It's flood channel at that point is about 5 ft. deep! Hot, humid and smokey still.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 8:20 pm:

Sara, you may want to take into account that some horses just take a long time to trust that leg again.

As DrO says, only examination of the synovial fluid will give you a definite answer.

Until then, I only want to note that feisty is not necessarily good. Low spirits look kind of sad, but I prefer them in cases like this.

A good spook or a couple of bucks is all it takes to go back to square one. I wouldn't let her walk on her own for at least a couple of months.

Don't trust her limping and sour face. The moment she realises her leg feels good today she will explode, and you definitely want to prevent that.

May be leaving her with the vet for a few days is better. He'll be able to monitor her closely and you'll get a small break too.
Member:
Twhgait

Posted on Saturday, Jul 29, 2006 - 8:29 pm:

Sara, I've read thru this thread and I don't have anything to add except to say good luck to you and Libby and I'll add both of you to the prayers tonight!

You are doing exceptionally well by this horse, so just keep up the good work, trust your instincts and your vet. We are all here for other options and of course, Dr.O's expertise. Just consider it more food for thought while you go over your options.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Sunday, Jul 30, 2006 - 12:12 am:

Sara-

Libby is a trooper, just like you!

We all know that Libby is in good hands...your's.

Upon reading this thread yesterday my emotions went rampant. I saw so many similarities, and I panicked. My grief for Beau seems to have left me with minute self control. Thus, my post. I didn't mean to be so intrusive to your situation, or overly aggressive. My intentions were good, Sara. I only wished to help, if possible.

Christos presents a prominent point regarding a "possible explosion of well-being". Beau put both hind legs into a concrete wall (bucked) on a day when he was feeling feisty. Major set-back.

You remain in my thoughts, and prayers.

Take care...as always, I'm wishing you both the very best!











.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 30, 2006 - 1:27 am:

Thank you, DJ. I know you mean well, and I take your advice seriously. I also think I understand how you feel about the loss of Beau.

It's very difficult to be sure of making the right decision when you are esentially holding someone's (to me the horses are "someones") life in the balance. I take the responsibility very seriously. There is a lot that goes in to making a decision as to what is right for her. Hopefully, I will know more Monday. I won't put off taking her somewhere, if it seems the right thing to do beyond that day.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Sunday, Jul 30, 2006 - 1:43 am:

I think, I know actually, that you understand concerning my loss of Beau.

It IS difficult making the right decision. I realize how seriously you take the responsibility. You know Libby the best, and I have no doubt that you will make wise decisions for her. It's great that you have a vet that you are so comfortable with, and trust. Maybe Monday will bring good news...I will think positively in that direction!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jul 30, 2006 - 11:55 am:

Given the constraints with your situation it would not hurt to also add the Baytril so as to fortify the oral antibiotics. The two are synergistic with one another and provide better coverage.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 11:23 am:

Today is a big day for you and Libby. Just want you to know I'm thinking of you!
Nancy
Member:
Djws

Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 8:05 pm:

You, and Libby, have been on my mind all day.

I am hoping that all will be well.

Take care.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 1:34 pm:

Sara, please post an update when you can... I am like everyone else, on pins and needles...take care.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 3:53 pm:

Didn't one of you post that you didn't need a script to buy gastroguard? Everywhere I look for it, it requires a prescription. Would you please let me know where you were able to buy it without one?
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 4:04 pm:

Ulcerguard, not gastroguard. Ulcerguard has the same ingredients but does not need a prescription.

https://www.medi-vet.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=ulcerguard

If she does not have ulcers, you may be able to get by with a quarter tube a day to use as a preventative.

How did yesterday go?
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 4:26 pm:

Yes, Sara, Ulcergard contains Omeprazole, which is also the active ingredient in Gastrogard. And, it looks like Aileen has steered you to the best source price wise I've seen yet.
We are all waiting to hear from you ... hope all is going well!
Nancy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 10:15 pm:

Gosh. I wrote a long post earlier today. Wonder what happened to it. I am almost delirious from lack of sleep, so I may have deleted it instead of posting. Who knows.

I took my dad to the ER last evening due to abdominal pain. He was admitted to ICU around 2 a.m. Came home and doctored Libby then spent the rest of the night with my mom (age 93) who kept waking up during the night because she was stressed, I assume. Phone started ringing at 6:30a.m.! Drs. think Dad has colon cancer, but won't know for sure for a couple of days. He's on blood thinners due to pace maker, so they have to thicken his blood before they can explore.

Anyway, at the vet's, Libby leg looked much better. Swelling around coronet band is gone, and swelling in fetlock is less and has softened some. No swelling in upper leg, and none around wound. Wound looked very clean, but there is a little proud flesh, but not too much.

Vet washed her leg with betadine solution after giving her Rompun. He then flushed first with iodine-saline solution, followed by an antibiotic solution. He told me what he was using, but I just can't remember right now. He re-wraped the leg. He gave her an anti-biotic shot (again, sorry. Just too spacy to think of name) and sent her home with more of the TMP/SMZ tablets. She has another appointment Thursday.

Libby was putting a little bit of weight on her leg yesterday, but still limping badly. She was more sore this a.m., understandably after treatment. Seemed back to a little weight by this afternoon.

I have decided to stick with my vet. He had obviously been very concerned about Libby, and has talked with other vets and done some reading, which he often does to make sure he is doing all that he can. Also, I feel confident, after talking with him, that he will not hesitate to refer me to someone, or suggest that I take her somewhere else if he feels her case is beyond his abilities. It's true that he can't do an ultra-sound of the area, which I agree would be really nice. But, I am unsure what an ultra sound would really accomplish. And, at this point, at least, it's my opinion that the cons of a long trip outweigh the pros.

Also, I went by the vets this afternoon and told him I was concerned about her not being on gastroguard as I just didn't think I could deal with a lot more problems right now. He gave me about 6 tubes and told me to come back for more. Was very sweet about it. I have no idea of the cost, but just don't care right now. I just don't want to have to deal with colic and ulcers on top of everything else.

I wasn't home a lot of the day, just long enough to clean stalls and medicate Libby. So, I don't know how much she had been lying down. (Poor Lonnie was giving Libby her meds at mid-night last night.)
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 10:44 pm:

Sara,

PUH LEASE, will you get some rest? I have tears in my eyes feeling all you are trying to deal with now.

Just take of you, I want to meet you in person next October at Brushy Creek and so does everyone else!!

You are doing all you can for Libby, and you must take time out for sleep; and trust the doctors to care for your dad.

I am so sorry to hear about your dad; and bless Lonnie for helping with Libby.

Angie
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 10:57 pm:

Oh, Sara! When it rains, it pours.

So sorry to hear about your dad.

You sound like a natural caregiver. Just don't forget about taking care of YOU. I know you have to be strong for everyone right now, but try not to get overly stressed. It's okay for the mighty oak to bend a bit in a storm...(if not, they get too laden with acorns, and go "nuts") LOL! I worry about you!

We care, and we're here for you.

If there is ANYTHING I can do, just let me know. Wish there wasn't such a distance between us...then I could do more, I suppose.

Glad to hear Libby's leg looks better. I am sure your vet will continue to do his best for her. It's nice to have a vet that you have confidence in.

Hot here in Ohio today-High was 96 degrees with humidity at 78%...still not as bad as out west. If you get overly tired, you will not endure the heat wave you are having (as well)...please be careful!

You, your family, and Libby remain in my thoughts and prayers.

GET SOME REST!

DJ
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 11:23 pm:

I echo Angie's and DJ's thoughts...I'm so very sorry this is happening! I too wish I were closer... Sending positive healing thoughts to your father, and strength to you and your mother... I can not imagine going through your current ordeal... Big cyber ((((hugs)))) to you!!

On the gastroguard, someone correct me please if I am wrong...as long as she's not showing any signs, you do not have to give the entire tube at once in order to prevent ulcers. I believe it's just a quarter of the tube at a time, once a day seems to do it for my boy with the ulcerguard. Those six tubes should last you 24 days... Nancy??? Dr. O?? thoughts??

Sara, your vet may very well have told you the dosage, but I wanted to be sure...it IS expensive!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 7:43 am:

Your father, horse, and you Sara are in my prayers.

Aileen, I don't give preventive doses of Gastroguard to horses with no history of ulcers. I am a big believer in keeping hay in front of stalled horses. Maintenance doses for horses recovering from ulcers are given in the article Diseases of Horses » Colic and GI Diseases » Gastric Ulcers.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 9:11 am:

Sara
I do not know how to say how much I am familiar with all that you are going thru... my Father had colon cancer. I hope your Dad does not. And, believe it or not, you will look back upon this crazy, sleepless time one day, and realize it was an honor for you to be the one who got to be the caretaker... regardless of outcomes, you will provide comfort and caring, not to mention how miraculous a moonlit night on the porch with a glass of wine, will become for you when you can do that (in the near future, I hope). Don't forget to notice the moon and what the stars have to offer, sans the alcohol (we will celebrate with that later)! I'm just telling you to go to your core and hold on... love your Mom and act like everything is okay. " No, Mom, I'm fine. It's like this all the time around here. I have plenty of time for that... no bother" (examples of dialog!) Do your best. And be satisfied with it. Sorry to get so etherial, but, as I sit here, lazing with my cup of coffee at the computer, your posts have brought back a time when to me when I had no time for sleep, food, sanity! AND, I look forward to the time when we can swap war stories....
CC the uclergard, I would go with the maintenance dose AND the hay in front of her all the time!
Needless to say, you are in my prayers!
Nancy
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 12:12 pm:

What a terribly rough go you are having, Sara. Please take comfort in knowing that there are so many folks on the HA that are sending positive thoughts, prayers and wishes your way.

Take care,
Sue
Member:
Lilo

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 12:25 pm:

To you and your mom, your dad, and your horse my very best wishes. What a tough time this is for you. Please do take care of yourself also, like everyone else said.
Lilo
Member:
Frances

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 1:25 pm:

Wish I could help you Sarah. I feel so sorry for all you are going through, and very much hope everything turns out roses for you, your parents and Libby.

I also think you're right to stick with your vet and not subject Libby to such a long journey unless absolutely necessary.

All the best,

Lynn
Member:
Djws

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 11:25 pm:

When you get into a tight place and everything goes against you, till it seems as though you could not hold on a minute longer, never give up then, for that is just the time and place that the tide will turn.-Harriet Beecher Stowe

Thinking of you, your family, and Libby. Hang in there, Sara~

DJ
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 11:07 pm:

A single sunbeam is enough to drive away many shadows~Saint Francis of Assisi

Thinking of you...hope the sun is shining brightly for you today.

All of you remain in my prayers.

DJ
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 11:08 pm:

DJ, that quote brought tears to my eyes!

Thank you all so much for your thoughts, prayers, and good wishes. They all must have worked, because there has been a "turning of the tides." I just hope it lasts!

Thank God for a wonderful surgeon. He ignored advice given him by the radiologist and others and followed his own instincts, and took a very conservative approach with my elderly dad. He kept him on massive antibiotics, took the time to thicken his blood (dad is on Coumidin (sp?)due to a pace-maker) and made sure he was a stable as possible, then he did an exploratory laparoscopy instead of just cutting him open. Found Dad has severe diverticulitis, and was able to remove the mass laparoscopically. A fat layer had prevented seepage of bowel content through the hole in the intestinal wall! The hole was very small, and is healing with the antibiotics. So...VERY good news on that front!

Also, my brother and his wife have arrived and are helping out with my mom (who has Alzheimers) which is a tremendous help!

Libby went to the vet again this afternoon for another flushing. Her swelling is continuing to go down. The back of her fetlock area is still swollen, but the swelling isn't as hard and doesn't go up as high. All the swelling in the front of the leg has gone. She is putting a bit more weight on it, enough that she has quit the "bunny hopping" on her hind legs, and is using all four legs to move most of the time. This is a big improvement. She continues on antibiotics, and goes back Monday for another flushing and check.

So...good news all the way around.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 11:29 pm:


Sara, I am soooo glad you posted with such positive news.

I am happy for your sake!!!!

Now, did you get some rest yet?????????

ZZzZZzzZZZzzzzz......
Member:
Djws

Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 12:03 am:

Sara-

Wonderful to hear the good (GREAT) news!

HA member's prayers get heard, loud and clear, don't they?

Now, how are YOU doing? Has your barn help returned? Are you still trying to do it all? Remember to breathe...don't stress...take some quiet time for YOU! Get some rest! Seriously!

Take advantage of the help while you have it!

Keep us posted (when you have time).

It will last... the surf is up!
Member:
Canter

Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 7:48 am:

Sara,
Just letting you know that I am thinking of you and continue to send best wishes your way. I'm very glad to hear that Libby is improving and that your Dad is OK.

Take care!
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 8:47 am:

Great news all around, Sara. My heart is so happy for you.
Thank God for the troop's arrival( your brother and wife!).
Soon, it will be time for that glass of wine on the porch! In the meantime, try to enjoy one really good night's sleep.
Nancy
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 10:10 am:

That is fabulous Sara, the positive thoughts and healing energy will continue ... do take care :-)
Member:
Frances

Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 11:47 am:

Oh, that is so good to hear. So glad.

Lynn
Member:
Twhgait

Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 12:56 pm:

Great news Sara!
Member:
Djws

Posted on Monday, Aug 7, 2006 - 7:57 pm:

Hi Sara!

Thinking of you! Sending many prayers your way!

DJ
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 12:13 pm:

Hello, everyone. Sorry I've been ignoring HA for so long. There just haven't been enough hours in the day lately. My mom's Alzheimers has gotten much more pronounced, and my father has become very dependent and childlike during his recovery. I have now arranged 24 hour care for them, so hopefully I can get my life back!

At her last vet check, the injury site had just a little swelling and that was soft, not hard. The wound itself looks pretty good, except for a small amount of proud flesh. I am hosing and rewrapping each day, and rubbing with DMSO and a linament the vet gave me. All that is the good news.

The bad news is that Libby still doesn't want to put much weight on her leg/foot. She has a little puffiness in her knee, so vet x-rayed her knee. Some osteoporosis showed. There were no bone chips, or anything else remarkable that showed. Vet is concerned about the osteo, as am I. IMO, and I think the vet's, it could be from lack of weight bearing, but there could be something else going on also -another injury that didn't catch our attention perhaps. I have scheduled an appointment to take her to Dr. Van Snow in So. California on 8/22 -the first date they had open. I know a lot of you feel I should have done this earlier, but there was just too much going on for me to be able to take her; I do have to put my parents ahead of my horses. It will be difficult even now.

I have noticed, however, that Libby is continuing to put more and more weight on the leg/foot, so my hope is that she is just untrusting of her leg, and will continue to put more and more weight on it and as she does so, the osteo will resolve itself. Even if she is fully weight bearing, however, I plan on still taking her down to see Dr. Snow.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 1:34 pm:

I am extremely happy to hear you are well, Sara, I was kind of worried here.

With all that's happening now, you can't possibly be seriously worrying about whether we agree with your choices or not.

You are the one who is there, Sara, you're the one taking all the punishment. We can only watch and pray for you.

Take care of yourself and your family. Yes, horses are too important for all of us, but friends and family even more so.

Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 2:10 pm:

Sara
You are doing your best... that, and prayer is all that you can do! Hindsight is always 20/20; too bad that it is not Foresight... if we had perfect "foresight', then there would be no need for faith. Have faith, do your best. You are doing great. Hang in there and know that so many care for you and yours! Thinking of and praying for you and yours.
Nancy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 5:45 pm:

It is good to hear from you Sarah and glad to hear things are evening out a bit though I am sure still challenging. As Christos says we watch and pray, we are here if there is something we can do.
DrO
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Monday, Aug 14, 2006 - 12:05 am:

Your situation is familiar to many. Sending best wishes, good thoughts your way. I wonder, do your parents realize they are known the world over? Did you tell your Dad that his surgery and recovery has become a factor for us all?

Please give Libby a treat and a hug! And tell your Dad that he'll have to type a big Hi! to all of us at "Horseadvice" so that we know he is doing O. K. Love to you Sara.....
Member:
Canter

Posted on Monday, Aug 14, 2006 - 11:03 am:

We're all pulling for you, Sara, and for your parents and for Libby as well!
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 5:04 pm:

Hello Sarah!

Sorry that I haven't checked on you lately. I had to make a run to M.D. Anderson in Houston (last week), then returned in time to groom for the Ohio Sire Stakes. Also preparing to drive my son's belongings back to Virginia for college!

I hope you are remembering to take deep breaths, and managing to find some "Sara time". It may prevent you from becoming too frazzled!

Funny, here we are the children, but our roles reverse as our parents age. I find that I feel like I am "parenting" my parents at times. They turn to me for guidance at this stage in their lives...I make the decisions. I understand the Alzheimer's progression...I have dealt with it for numerous years. After my dad's hip surgery, he also became childlike. He got terribly spoiled (my fault). I admit that I wanted to scream out loud sometimes (still do) because it is all so overwhelming. I feel happy that I am here for them, and feel guilty when I get agitated with them (just like I do with my children). I watched my parents take care of their parents...the cycle of family. I find myself at wit's end only to know I wouldn't have it any other way! Thank God for Biv, my Beau (I miss him), and yes, a NEW yearling filly (Miss Sassy-will tell you more later)! I turn to them when my world closes in! I don't know what I'd do without them!

Are you still taking Libby to Dr. Snow's? If so, have a safe trip. You will be in all of our thoughts, and we're cheering her on to a speedy recovery!

Keep us updated when you can. Don't forget that we're here for you.

Fond Regards,

Donna
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 8:26 pm:

Yes, I'm still planning on taking Libby to Dr. Snow. Someone must have told Libby. She's putting more weight on her leg each day. I think she's trying to convince me she doesn't need to go. However, she is still limping, and at this point, she's going regardless!

My friend Stacey, who's been staying with us most of the summer, left this a.m. She's been a lot of help, and I'll miss her; so will Lonnie. (She's a gourmet cook!) We had breakfast at the local Market Grill, a part of the stockyards. Biscuits and gravy. Yumm! Then I spent most of the day in the barn. A great day! Thank god for good biscuits and gravy and hot coffee; stalls to clean; horses to play with; good music and good wine!! And, also, cats that curl up with you on the bed and purrr when you lie down for a "breather."

Donna, what's this about a new yearling?! Do tell!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 3:01 pm:

I leave EARLY tomorrow a.m. for Santa Ynez (more like middle of the night!) so we can beat the heat going through the desert. I've talked a friend into going with me so won't have to go alone. I was concerned that even Red Bull wouldn't keep me awake in the wee hours.

I had someone suggest that I should try and rig up a sling of some sort to support some of Libby's weight during the trip. Have any of you ever done this? How did the horse handle it? Dr. O., do you think this is a good idea? I was just going to give her a little more bute than normal to help keep her comfortable. I was also going to bed the trailer pretty deeply. For the first time since I've had it, I'm wishing I hadn't gotten the feeders in this trailer. Without them there would be more than enough room for her to lie down.

I have a 3 horse slant load, and was going to put her in the middle stall. The front stall has a solid divider panel (for stallions) and I thought there'd be more air flow in the middle.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 5:11 am:

Decided it was better to just load her normally. I'll be home Wednesday night and will let you know how it went.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 6:22 am:

I vote for no sling unless you can get some professional help from someone who is familiar with horse slings. They are very tricky things and you would be amazed the number of ways such a sling could fail actually making things worse. Singly the most important thing you `could do to improve the ride is to load the horse backward as braking, which throws weight on the front most portion of the horse with respect to the vehicle, is often less controlled than acceleration and acceleration needs to be slow. Most slants have room to turn around and make sure the horse turns on the good front leg.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 12:23 pm:

I had left before I received your advice, Dr. O., but we decided on our own that a sling would just be too dangerous. I loaded Libby in the middle stall, normal position without having her head tied and with lots of shavings. The total trip took 12 hours and the roads were rougher than I had remembered. We stopped every couple of hours to give her rest, and once for an hour's rest. We were able to get through the hottest part of the trip before the temperatures really climbed. Even so, it was a really rough trip on her. The last time I stopped and checked her, she had wedged into the corner formed by the wall and divider almost in a sitting position. Much further and she wouldn't have been standing when we arrived.

She managed to "walk" out of the trailer and into a stall where she rested until her appointment the next a.m.

Dr. Snow did digital x-rays and ultra-sounds on her injured leg, and x-rayed her left front foot, also, as he was rightfully concerned about founder. She was starting to founder, as it turned out; I suspect the trip was the "finishing blow" for starting the founder. Somehow, the dr. and his assistants managed to get a pad on her left front foot.

The x-rays and u.s. showed that her right leg had gas pockets, which he said were from infection. The DDFT also looked compromised but still structurally sound. The bone, as our vet at home noted, has some osteoporosis from lack of weight bearing, but otherwise looked healthy. He did blood work, including testing for kidney function problems, white cell count, etc. He also did a culture of the wound area by opening it and inserting a sterile tip deep as he could reach into the area. The results of that culture should be back today.

From the blood work, her kidneys seem to be fine, so he will put her back on bute. He put her on massive doses of antibiotics injected.

There was a large area of old, pooled blood that he tried to drain by asperating with a long needle. The fluid was very "gunky" looking. When the cytoligy on the wounds fluid comes back, he will put a tourniquet below the knee, and infuse the entire lower leg with antibiotics, leave it for about 15 mins., then drain it. She should respond to treatment by this weekend. If she doesn't, he will then take her over to Alamo Pintada and do an MRI on her leg and go from there. He would do that, if necessary, the first of the week, and I'd try and get back out there so I could see it. She will be at the clinic at least 2-3 weeks - until she is sound enough to travel without pain.

I wish circumstances would have allowed me to get her to this clinic earlier. But Dr. Snow said I wasn't too late and that she should recover, although it will probably take a year and a half before she is normal again...if she ever is. He gave her an 80% chance of recovery based on what he currently knows about her.
Member:
36541

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 12:40 pm:

Wow Sara, what a trip and a lot of info about your mare that should really help with realistic treatment and prognosis advice. I went through this three years ago with a two day old foal, had to leave her at the University for surgery and recovery (16 days). I found the experience amazing, I had not known for myself until that time that veterinary medicine could be at the same technological intensity as human medicine. The professionals cared as much for my Libby as I care for my human patients, kept me super informed and were so compassionate. I am so hoping you have the same experience, and that we will hear of an upswing very soon. Best wishes, Stacy
Member:
Canter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 12:56 pm:

Sara, what an exhausting ordeal, but it sounds like they've got everything under control and I'm encouraged at the prognosis. I will continue to keep my fingers crossed for Libby's recovery!
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 1:44 pm:

Sara, what a trip. I'd have been sitting down in a corner of the trailer, too, I'm afraid.
Someday, you will look back at the last three months of your life and wonder how you did everything you've been doing.
The tests and findings of the vets are fascinating. I hope they are able to give her the antibiotics in her leg and that it will start a thorough healing of the infection . . . and that her recovery time will be less than expected, and she will come back from all of this better than ever. Looking forward to hearing the next installment.
Member:
Erika

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 4:42 pm:

I don't know how you did it, Sara. Superhuman effort. Hope she's on the mend.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 5:11 pm:

It sounds very encouraging Sara.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 7:08 pm:

Dr. Snow just called me. He said he did an infusion of her leg last night, and that she seemed to be already responding. She was up on her legs almost all day, looking out the window, and walked over to the door looking for her cookie whenever anyone came to see her. All her blood work is excellent. He said that from it one would never believe she had an infection, yet it thinks that's what's the problem. He said that of course "there are up days and down days with these things" and today was an "up day." But, he felt encouraged by how she acted and looked. He will do another infusion either Sunday or Monday, unless she starts to show signs of going downhill, then will do one sooner.

So...good news for now.

Stacey - yes, this clinic and Alamo Pintada have equipment that just blows me away! They use the same equipment that the top hospitals use. And, the entire staff, from the guys that clean the stalls, to the doctors themselves, are very
caring and concerned. When I arrived, they just took over. Unloaded Libby and put her up. They were all so nice I felt like crying and hugging each of their necks!

I get a kick out of Dr. Snow himself. He is tall and lanky, dresses cowboy style in jeans, big award buckle, plaid shirts, and a hat. He competes in roping and reining. (Others on his staff compete in eventing and jumping.)You'd think he was "just a cowboy" or one of the employees. He speaks in a soft, slightly lisping drawl. He is so intelligent, has had so much schooling and experience...it's sometimes a little hard to equate the two personas; kind of catches you off guard, if you know what I mean.

Of course, the clinic is in one of the top horse areas probably in the world; lots of TBs, QHs, Arabs, big breeding facilities and show barns, and TB farms complete with their own tracks. Lots and lots of big money in the area. All of that helps when it come to affording all the top equipment! Also, a vet or clinic can afford to specialize, which most vets can't afford to do.

Our local vet is a great guy and works very hard treating everything from rats to cows and horses, whether their owners can pay him or not.(He's been known to take a sack of potatoes for payment.) He tries to keep up with all the new techniques and technology, but there's no way he or any other vet in Utah, could afford a digital x-ray machine or MRI machine!

I just grateful there are places like Santa Lucia Farm that I can take an injured horse. I just wish it was a bit closer!
Member:
Christos

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 7:30 pm:

Sounds excellent, Sara, I am very glad you all have a better chance to recover now.

Yes, big clinics are amazing, but let's not forget that it's your vet's skills and your good care that helped Libby make it to the hospital.

Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 8:38 pm:

Hey Sara
Sounds like your efforts are going to be worth it!!! So glad you were able to get Libby there. I've always said that there is nothing a stubborn woman can't do! If all of our answers at HA are answered (and there must be thousands of them), you both will be JUST FINE! SO GLAD to hear from you. Sending you good thoughts and prayers for continued improvement...Strength,Peace, and Rest to you both.
Nancy
Member:
Srobert

Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 11:09 pm:

Sara and Libby: We are all sending you the very best wishes possible. You are one amazing lady and Libby is so very lucky to have you. Now that you know Libby is in the best of hands (other than yours), be SURE to try to get some rest for yourself. We are sending you arab kisses. Rajah, Brianna, and Shari
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 - 9:56 am:

(((hugs))) to you and Libby. Hope things continue to look up for her; you've had enough for awhile and so has she!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 - 10:16 am:

Such great news! I'm sure you're breathing a sigh of relief here...Sending positive, healing thoughts that Libby continues on her road to recovery! Now how about you? Are you getting some much needed rest?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 - 11:05 am:

I will hopefully be getting some rest after this weekend. Sometime ago I signed up to help out at a 200mi. bike ride my husband is running this weekend. (I just have to sit and sign people in, so won't be too tough .)

Christos, you are absolutely right re: our local vet. And, his tendon repair looks fine.
Member:
Frances

Posted on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 - 1:06 pm:

So glad to hear that you made it Sara, and that the vet is optimistic.

You've managed fantastically, and I wish you and Libby a great outcome!

Lynn
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Sep 1, 2006 - 12:42 am:

Vet called me again this afternoon. He said that Libby isn't responding as good as he'd hoped she would to the infusions (It sounded like he said "perfusion" Did I hear that word right?)

After the first one there was marked improvement, but she hasn't improved noticeably from the second. Day before yesterday he called and said he'd found another pocket of puss, lower down than the large one. He asperated it and did a culture. He is concerned there may be more, or something else going on which isn't showing up on the digital x-ray or sonogram, so he would like to do an MRI if I'm willing. The doctor that does them is willing to do one Monday, even though the clinic is closed for the holiday.

I told him to do it, and that I would try and make it down there if I possibly can. (He said it would be nice if I could be there.) He will also confer with the vets at Alamo Pintada, where the MRI machine is. Hopefully, something solid will show up and these drs. will be able to figure out something. It is very weird that no structure seems to be compromised, yet her leg is so sore she will put very little weight on it.

Other than her leg, she is doing good; seems happy, begs for cookies, eats, etc.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 1, 2006 - 7:20 am:

I have my fingers crossed Sara, hoping for the best.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Friday, Sep 1, 2006 - 1:44 pm:

Thinking of you, Sara... Come on, Libby, you can do it!
Nancy
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 5, 2006 - 12:11 pm:

Sara,
Hoping that you hear good news from the vet today.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 10:39 am:

No good news. Dr.Snow just called me. Looking at the MRI there is about 4 inches of SDFT which is non-existant. There are hemmorage pockets between the 2 ends and adhesions, which are probably causing the pain. She would need to be put into a cast for 3-4 mos., and he feels her prognosis is poor for "functional probability" Infact, her prognosis is poor all the way around, even just as far as being pain free and able to wander around the pasture. The only good news is that the infection is gone.

I inqured about stem cell therapy, as he's licensed for it and has had a lot of experience; he said that it's normally used when the basic tendon structure is still there, but has holes in it....there has to be something for the cells to adhere to and grow/expand upon. However, he will call Dr. Hansen tomorrow, who is one of the people who "invented" the stem cell therapy for horses, and will talk with him and see what his opinion is for Libby. He will also have Dr. Carter, who did the MRI and has a lot of experience with tendon injuries, call me. He said that Libby is back at his clinic and comfortable, seems content, etc.

After he talks with Dr. Hansen, and I talk with Dr. Carter, I will talk with Dr. Snow again and we will go "from there" but I'm not holding out much hope. I meant to ask him if he's ever seen this much damage from an over-reach. I was in "shell shock" and just didn't think to ask before I hung up. I'll try and ask him tomorrow. I'm just devistated right now. If there was only some hope for her to at least live out her life in relative comfort as a broodmare, or a "pasture friend." But, it's sounding like that might not even be a possibility. Poor dear. She is such a sweet, lovely mare. I just feel so bad for her. I'll keep a glimmer of hope alive until I hear from Dr. Carter and talk with Dr. Snow again. Think I'll take a glass of wine and go to the barn for awhile.

I wrote this last night and did go to the barn and sat for a long time. I still feel this a.m. like I've a hole in my heart, but am trying not to totally fall apart until I talk with the vets, probably this afternoon.
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 11:19 am:

Oh Sara, My heart goes out to you! You have given with every ounce of your soul to help Libby. We are all hear for you.
Suz
Member:
Djws

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 11:35 am:

Dear Sara,

I've been away for awhile (M.D. Anderson in Houston-again) and was dismayed to hear this news while "catching up" on HA.

I do know how you feel, and my heart is breaking for you. I remember the pain I felt when the doctors told us virtually the same news about Beau (30% of his SDFT and DFT was gone). "Shell shocked" doesn't adequately describe the blow to your heart(IMO) when you hear this type of news.

I am glad to hear that Libby's infection is gone. Maybe that will be the bright side of your ordeal. They couldn't help Beau with stem cells, etc., because his infection continued to rage. I am wondering if they could break up Libby's adhesions, clear the hemorrhage pockets, and then do stem cell???? Would that stop her pain, and allow her to be pasture sound????? Dr. O, anybody......? Is it possible for the adhesions, etc., to be removed?

I hope you know that you both are in my prayers (everyday).

Try to stay strong, Sara. We are all pulling for you, and Libby. I only wish there was something more that I could say, or do. My prayers are plentiful so...I'll just continue with those.

Much love, and good, positive, healing thoughts are being sent your way!

DJ
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 11:38 am:

There are artificial veins . . . artificial joints . . . are there such things as artificial tendons?
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 12:05 pm:

So sorry to hear about this latest news, Sara. You are in all of our thoughts.

Sue
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 12:24 pm:

Sara Dear,
Prayers are there with you. That "hole in the heart" sounds so familiar. Take care of you and know you are surrounded by love.

Shirl
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 12:49 pm:

Sara,
I am so sorry to hear the latest. My daughter will light a candle and write a message for Libby. Please let us know how it goes this afternoon and if there is anything we can do.
Kathleen
Member:
Canter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 12:49 pm:

Sara, what devastating news. We've all been pulling for you and Libby and hoping for the best and are all saddened by the prognosis.

Sending you comforting thoughts...

Fran
Member:
Dres

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 12:55 pm:

oh Sara .. huge cyber {{{{HUGS}}}} coming your way...

When you say over reach... is that how this injury started..?? If this is a bad time to ask I understand...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 1:37 pm:

Sara, So sorry the latest news isn't good.

((((HUGS))))
Member:
Twhgait

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 1:56 pm:

Sara, I've been following; not adding much as these fine people cover all the bases. I am sending you my thoughts and prayers!!
Member:
Frances

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 2:29 pm:

Oh what sad news, Sara, and after everything you've done. Perhaps the fact that the infection has gone gives some hope?

Take care of yourself - you've been through a lot.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 2:35 pm:

Ann, yes. That's what the trainer told me. Libby was on the lounge, suddenly started running and bucking and pulled so hard the trainer couldn't hold her. She said when Libby finally stopped and she went up to her, her leg was cut and all she can think of was that Libby over-reached. The trainer told me she always puts leg wraps on the horse, but didn't this time. I don't know why. I have never seen a horse injured so badly by an over-reach, and am having a hard time accepting that as what happened. I know for a fact that there was a tractor with a tiller/cultivator thing attached sitting in the far end of the arena, and I can't help think Libby may have hit it. Trainer, of course, says "no way." I have no way of knowing for sure what she did; probably it all happened so fast the trainer doesn't really know either.

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. I've been trying to do some research on line - just looking for a miracle. The day is going slowly although I have a lot I need to be doing. I know many of you have been through this kind of thing yourselves. I've been through it before, too. It doesn't make it easier, though.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 2:54 pm:

You have a lot of friends here, Sara. Use our love, prayers, support to give you strength. It is not an easy situation. We will help you through... horse people are the best, especially in hard times. Thinking of you both,
Nancy
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 3:11 pm:

I think your trainer was lying to you and the mare did get away from them and went into the cultivator. Having had a number of trainers and severe "accidents" to several of my best horses, I know that they will CTA before they tell the truth. Have one mare with ruined hocks and lame forever in her right front shoulder as well as tongue cut half way off. This from the first trainer I ever took a show quality horse to. Also had a severe stifle injury to my late stallion, Peppy, the trainer claimed he got up over a hitching post while tied there. Dont know why he was tied to a hitching rail anyway. He also got a cut tongue from being "tied around" the lazy mans way to soften the face. If I ever catch another trainer doing this I will fire them immediately, even a standard snaffle bit makes this dangerous and cruel. The mares tongue was probably cut the same way, but he was using a twisted wire bit. Since getting my current trainer, a true world class showman, I have never had another injury to any of the many horses he has been training for me. Sorry your mare is so badly injured she will never be sound again. That really sucks and many people lose faith completely in trainers from bad experiences like this one.
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 3:21 pm:

I just read through all of the posts and realized that your original vet should have been much more aggressive with the antibiotics to begin with and used the best available when she was first injured, since the injury was in such a dangerous place. I hope now that Dr Snow as gotten the infection out, that some regeneration will take place and she will be pasture sound. If finances and your heart can stand it, I would keep going with her until she says no. You will know when that day comes. Take care, my thoughts are with you and your mare.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 3:52 pm:

Did a google search of artificial tendons, and I see that there are some . . . since 1998 there have been some interesting developments. I don't know if they use them in horses, but maybe there is hope in that area, too. I'm sure your vet will know. Thinking of you today, Sara.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 4:38 pm:

Oh Sara! I'm so sorry...please know my thoughts are with you. Sending you comforting hugs and prayers for healing, peace, and strength.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 4:42 pm:

Too sad to hear Dr Snow's findings, Sara. Well, at least you got the infection under control.

I remember a picture of a piece of tendon being replaced by a braided material of some type. It didn't look like something that would be removed later on.

Isn't it possible to transplant part of another tendon to give the missing length a jump start? What about splitting the extensor on the same leg and using that length to patch the SDFT? Splitting the DDFT?

DrO?
Member:
Green007

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 5:03 pm:

Sara,

My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 8:21 pm:

I've been doing some online research, also; more from the feeling of wanting to "help" than anything. I'm sure the drs. already know about what I might find. I did find, however, that drs. in U.K. have used a new technique to repair severed digital flexor tendons in horses. "Dr Roger Smith and the team working at the Royal Veterinary College in London have used implants made of the bioabsorbable material poly-L-lactic acid (PLLA) to repair lacerated tendons in four horses" From the article, this sounds very interesting, but don't know how practical it is. The article goes on to state that the disolvable suture material normally used in tendon repair isn't strong enough and disolves too soon. If you're interested, you can read the entire article at: www.equinescienceupdate.co.uk It's an interesting article.

I personally have gortex in one of my knees in place of a ligament, and a cadaver ligament in my other knee, so, like Holly Wood, I don't know why the same type of thing can't be done with horses. Are ligaments that much different from tendons structurally? Or in the stress put on them? Hopefully, I'll find some of this out this evening.
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 9:18 pm:

Sara, there just are no words to offer you. My prayers are all I can offer.
Member:
Erika

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 10:57 pm:

Sara, you're in our thoughts and prayers.
Erika
Member:
Christos

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 6:59 am:

Yes, Sara, ligaments are slightly different. They receive a somehow better blood supply (think of them as old, mutated muscle), they suffer less stress and they don't run inside sheaths.

The material in the picture I mentioned earlier was nonabsorbable terylene, the book says there are problems with the tendon spitting it out and suggests using a very slowly absorbable material instead.

I've read a couple of studies that suggest patching the gap with a piece from another tendon or a transplant from another animal may not be such a long shot after all.

I am sure your vets are well informed, so pointing out this or that study on tendon repair would be kind of rude on my part.

However, for your information, you may want to visit https://www.pubmed.gov , where you can search for studies that interest you. Just type something like "equine tendon repair" into the search engine.

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 9:06 am:

These news is very saddening Sara. Let us know when you hear from the vets and it does not hurt to inquire about the suggestions above. But in general these will be experimental therapies.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 10:41 am:

I talked with both the fellow who did the MRI and Dr. Snow at length last night. The MRI vet, Dr. Carter Judi, basically told me there was no alternative but to put Libby down. He said he's open to suggestion, but most of the experimental therapies have not been successful, or at least the success rate is very low, due to the stress put on a horses leg tendon. The biggest problem is adhesions, which cause pain and damage when they tear.

Dr. Snow talked with Dr. Hansen, and stem cell therapy won't work even with using a matrix. It has been tried. The problem is that the stem cells need the tendon cells to "tell" them to develop into new tendon cells. Without the tendon cells, they have no direction and will develop "willy-nilly."

Dr. Judi thinks the reason there is such a gap in her tendon is that she developed adhesions which tore and when they tore they shredded the mended tendon.

I asked Dr. Snow about Libby's attitude and demeanor, and she said she was bright and alert, nickering to horses and people going by, and seemed out of pain, eating good, etc. I said she didn't sound like an animal that had given up and was ready to be put down and he agreed.

He suggested putting a Kemzey splint on her leg to "give her a chance." There is a very slim chance that she might heal enough to be pain free and if she adjusts to her splint, it would keep pressure off the "good" leg and foot (a big concern) and allow her to move around. I told him to go ahead and put the splint on her, which he said he would do last night if he had one that fit, otherwise it would be this morning. My thinking, and I think his thinking too, is that it will at least give her that slim chance to improve on her on, and give us a chance to investigate any possible new treatments. I would not object to experimental treatment as long as she continued to have a good attitude and was herself willing to try.

I will look at the site you posted, Christos, and pass it on to Dr. Snow. Any suggestions are appreciated. I'll let the doctors decide what, if any, might be useful.

Thank you all for your prayers and thoughts. I was just devastated yesterday, but feel a little better today knowing she may yet have a chance, no matter how slim, and feeling comfortable that her doctor will give her every chance there is and not put her down until she is ready.

I am finding some amazing stuff on the internet, btw, regarding new medical treatments for horses. The stuff they've done for Barbaros is totally amazing. It's all very interesting if you have the spare time to search around and do some reading.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 11:11 am:

Many many (((hugs))) to you Sara, sending continuous positive thoughts and healing prayers to you and Libby.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 11:29 am:

Hey Sara
Maybe with this "kemsey splint" and Libby's positive attitude, healing can happen... my prayers will be for that! Hang in there. There are so many of us pulling for you and Libby!
Nancy
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 12:36 pm:

Sara-

You and Libby have come this far...hopefully this splint will buy you more healing time. If prayers have anything to do with it...she will be fine. You know Libby...you will know what is best for her. I believe in miracles. Continue to take one day at a time. We're all wishing the best for you.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 12:43 pm:

Sara,
Is a prosthetic leg an option?
Kathleen
Member:
Lilo

Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 1:37 pm:

Sara - I was so sorry to hear about the poor prognosis. Don't have any suggestions to offer, other than sometines experimental treatments are the way to go.
Best of luck - in Equus one often reads about these amazing stories of recoveries - maybe this will be one of them.
Lilo
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 12:14 am:

They didn't have the right size splint and had to order one, so will put it one her tomorrow.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 1:05 am:

Big, warm hug, Sara . . . Sleep well tonight. You are not alone, and Someone Who loves Libby more than any human can will be watching over her tonight.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 12:14 pm:

Sara-

Thinking of you, and Libby.
New Member:
5691

Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 12:54 pm:

Ahhh Sara,

My heart and caring goes out to you for all you have been thru with Libby and your parents. We may never meet, but thru this post I sense that you are a woman of remarkable character and courage. I hope that the love, caring and support from all of us sharing your journey has helped you in some way.

You are in my thoughts,
Debra
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 10:40 pm:

Just know that all of us are with you and Libby in our hearts, and that you are surrounded by all of our positive energy.
Kathleen
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 12:27 pm:

(((hugs))) Sara, still thinking of you and Libby...
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 10:08 pm:

I just received a brief email from Dr. Snow's assistant. She said they put the splint on Libby this afternoon and she took to it immediately. I contacted a Dr. Scott Reiners who wrote an article I found, and he's evidently done quite a few tendon grafts, mostly on the DDFT, but said he's done some on the SDFT and has had a 50/50 success rate. I'm going to call him first of the week and talk with him about Libby. What concerns me is it's not a new injury, but now has adhesions. But, it's at the very least worth a phone call.

Again, thank you all for your support. It's amazing how much it helps.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 10:23 pm:

Sara,
Good Luck to Libby. I've asked my horses to send positive thoughts her way. Two of them happily agreed, but Mona pinned her ears and said where's my food. Two out of three isn't bad. I think Mona was just joking, so make it three.
Wishing you the best.
Kathleen
Member:
Djws

Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 11:03 pm:

Sara-

Just wanted to say, "goodnight".

Remember, Beau is watching over Libby...I know he is.

Prayers and love flow your way.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 11:53 pm:

Kathleen, the one who pinned her ears must be related to my mare who's known around here as "Miss Piggy." Much like the muppet for whom she's named, she's the original "me first girl!"

DJ, did I mention to you that my "miss Piggy" name is also Beau. It's really Beaulimazar, which is much too long for everyday, so I call her Beau. She's a wonderful old girl inspite of her attitude.

Beau has lot's of good company. I was thinking about all the wonderful horses I've known who've passed on. What a great herd!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 9:52 pm:

More news. Libby's MRI report was rather dismaying imo. I will post it in a separate post for anyone who's interested. Her MRI was put on a DVD by the MRI machine and sent to a specialist in St. Paul, MN of all places!

I called Dr. Snow and talked with his assistant who said she'd have the Dr. call, which he did this morning.

Libby is doing very well in her splint. Dr. was even able to pick up her left front foot and trim it back a little. I asked how long she could wear the splint, and if it was just giving us extra time or was a solution to her injury. He said she should be in the splint for 4-5 mos. When it is removed she will need to have therapy and need to have her heel gradually lowered. (The splint keeps her on her toe to prevent irritation and stress to the tendon.) It will take at least a year for her to recover. He feels pretty positive that she will be able to live a happy and pain free life, but will not be able to be ridden again. (Sorry Christos! I'll bring another horse to Missouri for you.)Perhaps she can be a broodmare, but that will depend on how she heals and it's too soon to tell.

I have received email from both partners at Dr. Reiners clinic. I sent them a copy of the MRI report. They are going to confer with Dr. Snow/Dr. Judi and then let me know how they feel about a tendon graft. Dr. Snow is skeptical, but said he keeps an open mind.

I'm so relieved that we will not have to put her down and that she will be able to wander around eventually and nibble grass and just bless us with her presence. She's such a pretty mare!

D.J. I don't think I ever thanked you for posting all the information on Beau and tendon infections. I do appreciate it. We were very worried about her being infected, and if I hadn't taken her to Santa Ynez, or had waited much longer, we could have lost her due to the unknown pocket of infection in her lower leg. Beau was very much in my mind and one of the reasons I took her when I did. So, thank you.

Such great people on this site! thank you all. I hope to meet many of you next fall.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 9:59 pm:

Here is what the MRI report on Libby said. It reports more damage than I was aware of. I found out that the "multifocal metallic susceptibility artifacts" mentioned in the last sentence of "findings" are images or "reflections" caused by the iron in pooled blood in this area.



"Exam Date: 9/4/2006

History:
Lacerated RF SDF and DDF on July 4th. Repaired in Utah. Placed in cast and did very well. Shipped to California 14 days ago. Has been very lame(non-weightbearing) since arrival. Tendon sheath cytology and culture are negative for sepsis. Treated with antibiotics with no improvement. Horse is grade 5/5 lame on the right front.

Technical Factors:
Numerous sequences of the front feet are available, including 3 plane localizers, multiple planes with PD and T2weighting, T2 FISP sequences, STIR sequences, T!-weighted Vibe FS sequences, and T2w me3d WE sequeces.

Findings:
The superficial digital flexor tendon is severely disrupted and thickened with abnormal, increased signal intensity from the level of the mid metacarpus extending distally to the approximately 1cm proximal to the proximal sesamoids. The deep digital flexor tendon has similar disruption and increased signal intensity along the dorsal and medial aspects of the tendon in the region immediately proximal to the proximal sesamoids as well. There is homogenous mild to moderate tendon sheath effusion and generalized thickening of the tendon sheath through the region, Within the region of the palmar superficial tissue disruption in the discal half of the metacarpus, there are ultifocal metallic susceptibility artifacts.

Conclusions:
Severe, traumatic superficial digital flexor and deep digital flexor tendonitis. Moderate tenosynovitis. the lesions are more than enough to make the patient severely lame. Chronological MR imaging would be neded to make further assessments of tendon lesion progression as well as clinical assessment."


This report was prepared by Travis C. Saveraid, DVM, Diplomate ACVR in St. Paul, MN (651)-233-7525 (cell) vetradiologist@gmail.com
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 11:19 pm:

Sara, just read your news. At least you can have Libby at home someday, that is better news than the alternative. She is soo lucky to have you! It is amazing that all of those words in the report make sense to someone. It is like a foreign language to me. the best thing i read was that further assessments would be needed, so that means they did not recommend giving up! I hope this rollercoaster ride you have been on soon turns into at least a "lazy river" ride, so you can relax a little.
suz
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 6:07 am:

Both tendons lacerated? I thought we were discussing laceration of the SDF only, with some insignificant strain/bruising suffered by the DDF.

This report sounds like she is very lucky that her canon is still in one piece.

Good to hear she's doing better in her splint. I hope she heals well enough to have a painless life.

It doesn't matter one bit if I can't ride her, tell her she's a sweet, courageous girl and I'll DrOp by to say hello and walk her in hand and be friends and wish her a long, successful and happy life raising her foals.

Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 9:17 am:

Yes, so did I. I'm still now sure about the DDF. It didn't show up as lacerated on the sonagrams, and originally I would think my vet at home would be able to tell that the DDF was also cut when he had her under anesthesia and treated her wound. I'm wondering if it's not compromised in some way from the infection she had instead of lacerated.

She is a brave, sweet girl. All the people who've worked on her have commented about what a good patient she is. She understands you are trying to help her and does all she can to co-operate.

Her stall is right next to the treatment room so there's a lot of coming and going. There's a big bag of horse cookies in the corner by her stall and she's learned to nicker and plead for one when people go by. I think the drs. receptionist is a particularly good "sucker." She has a big window and can watch everything going on outside, too. It's so nice down there It's going to be a "come down" to be back home!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:43 am:

Libby sounds like a gem! I'm glad that she'll be able to come home soon :-)
Member:
Frances

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 11:06 am:

What good news that Libby is comfortable and improving in her splint, despite the alarming report. It sounds as if she can look forward to the lovely laid-back life with you that she deserves.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 12:21 pm:

Sara, and what's wrong with St. Paul MN???? Just found your comment funny...

Seriously, I am happy for you and it sounds like Libby is such a trooper. Those Arabs are something else aren't they??

She's going to be so used to her treats you may have to have a fund raiser and start a collection to keep her supplied for the next year!!
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 1:17 pm:

So glad to hear that the long term prognosis is that Libby will be comfortable, Sara.

Do the vets think that she'll be able to handle the extra weight of pregnancy as well? Regardless, I know she'll be just as precious to you.

Sue
Member:
Djws

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 8:03 pm:

Sara-

What wonderful news! I am SO happy that you will have Libby back in your pasture. I know you are disappointed that she won't fully recover for you to ride etc, but it certainly beats the alternative. I would give anything to have had that chance with Beau. I know that I ranted and raved through this thread...(emotional because of what I went through with Beau). I said that if what I had posted made a difference with just one horse, then he hadn't died in vain. I'm glad it helped you, help Libby. You really have no idea how much it means to me.

On Friday, it will be 9 weeks since Beau left us...I miss him. They told us Beau's tendons were "eaten" by the bacteria in his tendon sheath. Beau's original ultrasounds, etc., did not show damage to his DDFT or SDFT. With all of the antibiotics, flushes, etc., I still don't understand what happened. 2 surgeries, and a month later, 30% of both were gone...and then, he was. I still need to post Beau's timeline, his reports, etc...it just makes it all come back to me, and it hurts. I think I'd feel better if Dr. O sees everything and can tell something, anything. I need to quit stalling, and just do it!

When Beau was in the hospital, he was as spoiled as Libby is getting! He certainly knew how to work those girls! They sound so much alike (brave, good patients, co-operative).

Libby will be thrilled to be home with her mama...don't kid yourself. I know she misses you, too. There's no place like home!

Sara, thank YOU...you certainly helped ME through a tough time. I can't wait to meet you in person, and I hope to meet Libby someday. She's become very special to me...I know you understand why.

Everything happens for a reason...I'm honored that Beau helped a beautiful mare named Libby.

Take care, and keep us updated often!

You will both continue to be in my prayers!
Member:
Pbauer

Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 2:25 am:

Sara,

I just read through your post...you are a very courageous lady! I truly believe that God rewards that effort. Have faith, and know that God is in control...even in the seemingly darkest of times.

I like Corrie Ten Boone's message: There is no pit so deep, that God is not deeper still.

Remember to pray, that is so important. He does answer our prayers!

Praying for you and your beautiful, Libby~

Tonya
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 9:02 am:

Thanks you for the update Sara. Concerning the DDF did you ever have a time when the foot was rocked back with the toe elevated off the ground? This would have been when the DDF became disrupted. There does not seem to be a good break with this case but the prognosis for pasture sound is encouraging.
DrO
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 10:22 pm:

No, Dr.O, at least not that I'm aware of. Do you think the MRI picked up irritation of damage done by the infection she had. I remember Dr.Snow mentioning that her DDF was "compromised" from the infection. I thought he meant inflamed or infected, not damaged. He said the structure was still there, if I remember right.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 - 11:48 pm:

Sara-

How's your girl doing?

Thinking of you both, and you remain in my prayers!

DJ
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 10:45 pm:

I just received an email from Dr. Snow. Libby is doing good. I'm anxious to have her home as we miss her. I plan on picking her up as soon as I get home from a business trip to NY...the first part of October.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 11:10 pm:

Great news, Sara! I know how much you miss her!

September seems to have flown by...October will be here before you know it!

Hopefully it will be a cooler haul for Libby this time.

Have a safe trip to New York!

Will keep you both in my thoughts, and prayers.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 9:07 am:

Excellent news Sara. If you do not mind sharing how bad is the bill?
DrO
Member:
Frances

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 9:32 am:

Oh wow, I'm so happy for you Sara!
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 9:45 am:

Yikes! I know the cost of some of these heroic treatments, especially in Southern Cal., is one of the things that I often wonder about, and I also wonder if I'd ever be able to afford them for one of my horses. I'm hoping that the doctors have mercy on you and Lily, Sara, and will consider donating part of their services to the cause of tendon research.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 10:16 am:

I don't know the cost yet; I don't think they've had the nerve to tell me!

Before the MRI and splint, it was $2900. I'm sure the MRI doubled that, then the splint was another $400 or so, plus board, etc. I'd say I'll need to mortgage our first born, but he wisely left home. I'll let you know the total bill.

I'll be so glad to have her home again! She's such a lovely mare, with so much personality...Looking into her eyes...I'd do anything to keep from putting her down.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 11:43 am:

Sara,
I am so happy for you and Libby. I know you won't relax until you have her home. Hope she enjoys the Frosted Mini Wheats. Because of the sugar, I don't feed many, but Yogi really looks forward to his when I finish treating his eye.
Kathleen

A little off topic - The mare who pins her ears (you call yours Miss Piggy, mine is Mona) is now worth her weight in gold (like she wasn't before!). Every time a horse comes near her, she hides behind Yogi (he's all of 13-3 hand tall). Yesterday as I was hand grazing Yogi with Mona and Annie grazing loose with him, Annie started to come near Yogi and Mona jumped between them and wouldn't let Annie near Yogi. She is doing this regularly now. I am so proud of her
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 12:16 pm:

What a good girl your Mona is. Were she and Yogi close before this? I hope Libby's friends all accept her with her brace.

I have mini-wheats waiting for Libby!
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 1:23 pm:

Yes they were close, they have been together for a few years. Mona is not a confident mare. When she had to be boarded as we moved around the country, she learned to hook up with the lead mare in the herd so nobody bothered her. But, she never, never would lay down when in the presence of other horses. We saw her lying in the pasture 3 times and each time she was colicing from the ulcers. She trusted me and I really had to be careful of what I asked her to do because she would do it and I didn't want to lose her trust. I messed up a few times, but she forgave me. Since she and Yogi have been turned out together, she has let down and is so relaxed. He was her protector. Now she is his. It is hard to explain how it feels to see this.

Yogi will be riding home in the trailer with Libby, at least in spirit. He is that kind of horse.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 5:08 pm:



We wish Yogi well!! Mona, too.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 12:14 am:

Gosh Sara, your last line about looking into Libby's eyes...made me cry. I felt that way with Beau (how I miss those eyes)!

Libby is going to be crowded in that trailer because Beau will be traveling with her in spirit, too. (I know he'd be kind with Yogi, so don't worry Kathleen . Your post added to my tears-how sweet)!

Isn't it wonderful that we all have such great horses? I do love to read about all the different personalities, mannerisms, etc.


JUST A NOTE:

Beau's 1st surgery, and a 10 day stay, was $2,493.85. The second surgery, plus a 16 day hospitalization was $4,059.13. Total of $6,552.98. This was after the doctors "shaved" some of the charges on the two original bills (they went easy on us), and a discount for the owners paying within 10 days. I think they felt as horrible as we did (losing Beau)...anyway, they did adjust the bill quite substantially. I hope you will be as fortunate. It's worth every penny ( whether we fail, or succeed) helping our horses...it's doing the best we can for them. They certainly do plenty for us , don't they? (I swear it's just like having a child)! Like Holly, I often worry what I would do if faced with an injury/illness accompanied with a large Vet bill...it's scary. Hmmmm....I'll just call Dr. O !

I am just happy that you will be bringing Libby home with you. I really am.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 9:45 am:

DJ, I'd call over $6000 a large vet bill! Thank god for Master Card! With 12 horses of my own I'm used to being in debt to the vet! Infact, I refuse to totally pay off my local vet, but always leave a few dollars owing because every time I totally pay my bill, someone gets hurt or sick!

They are like children, especially since we foaled out and raised most of ours.
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 11:45 am:

Sara, you made me chuckle as I do the exact same thing with my vet bill! For years I've kept $5.00 owing from month to month as it's Murphy's Law that once I would paid off one bill, something else would immediately arise. My vet thought it was quite funny.

However in the last 9 months, the system failed. What with surgery for Warwick last December costing $7,500 and surgery for Abby this July costing $4,600, it just all fell apart. You are so right about thank god for credit!

So glad to hear that Libby is coming home.

Sue
Member:
Djws

Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 10:01 pm:

Oh, Sara! I think $6,000 is a HUGE bill. I meant if I was faced with a large bill, what would I (myself) do? Remember, Beau had two owners that wrote the checks...I was only his caretaker, and groom (and crazy in love with him). I would have to max my cards, mortgage my house, work 3 jobs...whatever it took, I suppose. I am very grateful that Beau was given a chance, and that the owners could afford to finance the decision for the surgeries, etc. The Vets told us that 80% of the owners (when faced with the same diagnosis as Beau), were forced to put their horses down...they just couldn't afford it. Our university does offer payment plans, which was nice to know in case I ever find myself needing their services.

Does anyone carry insurance on their horses?

It must be an extraordinary experience raising a horse from it's birth. Maybe someday I'll have the experience...I can't even imagine.

DJ
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 11:50 pm:

It is extraordinary, and wonderful. We have kept several of the horses that we bred. Each that we kept has a special story, pedigree, or both that caused us to decide not to sell them. We bred and raised both of our stallions, Libby, the gelding that I posted about which had foundered and was diagnosed with ring bone, and several of our mares. It gives you a special bond with the horse, imo. I know them intimatly, and they me, so I know what they are saying and thinking because I have spent so much time with them. I can do things with them that others can't do because they trust me. Because they have so much trust in me, it makes them easy to train imo. However, there is a down side, also. For one, it's very difficult to part with them; it's like adopting out one of your children! I ask for references and reserve the right to see the horse's home after it's been sold...stuff like that to make it a little easier.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 10:08 pm:

Sara-

How is Libby? I think about the two of you, everyday.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 11:40 pm:

From what I understand, she'd doing good on her splint. I'm hoping to bring her home this next week...if all goes well on the parent front so I can get away. I miss her!
Member:
Djws

Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 1:13 am:

Happy to hear the news, Sara. I know how very much you miss your girl!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 10:08 am:

Yes, I do. I sometimes dream about her at night. Pathetic, isn't it, a grown woman whose dreams are filled with horses. When I think about her though, I get really sad thinking about not being able to ride her, and her walking around in the splint. I just hope that after all this she IS pasture sound eventually. Poor thing!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 10:14 am:

btw - Some of you were asking about the total cost for Libby's treatment. It looks like it will be close to $7000 not counting what I had to pay our local vet.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 10:57 am:

Sounds like good news Sara, relatively speaking. The main thing is that she will eventually be able to go out in pasture and be comfortable - more comfortable than your bank account.
Been there - doing that. Yogi continues to heal, but seems to be getting depressed. Maybe he hasn't heard the good news about Libby. I haven't been outside to see him in two days, but will go tell him about Libby. That will cheer him up.
Kathleen
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 10:21 pm:

Poor Yogi. Why do you think he's depressed? His situation and lack of turnout with other horses, or...??

Not such good news about Libby today. Dr. Snow and his assistant are out of town; one of the young vets that works with him said that Libby has developed some pressure sores from the splint and bandage. (I was concerned about this happening, but was told they didn't think she would get them.) She's been getting hand walked some each day and doing pretty good, but seemed a little "off" yesterday and today. They have put a thicker bandage on her under the splint. Dr. Snow will call me first of the week when he's back in town and let me know if he feels Libby is ready to leave the clinic and can stand the trip home. I'm looking forward to her coming home, but don't want her to travel until she is really comfortable enough for it. I have to go out of town for a week over Thanksgiving, and before that for three days the end of October. I wanted to time things so I'd be home for a week or so after she got home. Also, I don't want money to be an issue; I want her well being to come first, but $25/day hospital care is starting to add up, on top of her surgery, MRI & etc. Oh well, I'll see what Dr. Snow has to say on Monday.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 2:48 am:

Really sorry to hear the bad news. Maybe it isn't as bad as the young vet thinks. Don't know why Yogi would be depressed. He's turned out with Mona and Annie and everything seems fine, just his body language, you know how you can just tell. Until I get the results of my MRI and other tests, I can't go out and do anything with him that might rattle my head. They are saying something like Post Concussion SynDrOme and if so, another blow could be more serious if it happens before I heal from the first concussion. So for now I will just watch from a distance. I'm thinking about going out and checking him tomorrow while my husband is at work. He has been doing all the feeding, stall cleaning, etc and he says that Yogi's eye looks good. He will be upset with me if I go mess with the horses, but if he's at work, he won't know, will he. He has been so protective of me, he won't let me do anything and I have to admit that I feel better since I've been on 'stall rest'. Now I know how the horses feel when they can't go out. Let us know how Libby is doing, maybe Yogi knows something we don't and he's worried about Libby. Actually, my husband mentioned something that had occurred to me, but I don't want to go there yet. He said Yogi may not be seeing very well out of his 'good' eye. He sees Dr Bonney next week, so I guess we will know more then.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 11:48 am:

Kathleen, I understand about the head. I was on coumadin (sp.?) for a couple of months due to a DVT from an IV. I wasn't supposed to go near the barn either. Like yours, my husband was very concerned and protective. I was "good" for a couple of weeks, the just couldn't take it. I agreed not to ride, and to let him handle the young horses, but I took care of my older mares. I did always wear a helmet when anywhere near a horse though. Would a helmet help you? Hmmm. Maybe not. They won't let football players go back in the game with a helmet on if they've had a concussion. You'd better follow orders!

I hope your husband's concerns re: Yogi's other eye are unfounded.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 12:24 pm:

Sara,
It's ironic that last night after I posted, I thought about wearing a helmet to go check him, but I guess unless I see something that needs immediate attention, I'll be a good patient and stay put until I can talk to my doctor to see if a helmet is possible. My husband is not a 'horse person' per se, but he knows the horses and I trust him to know if there is anything serious going on, and the way our house is laid out, I can see the horses from every side of the house and have plenty of windows. One thing that has come of this is that from now on I will wear a helmet while riding. I grew up in a time where no one wore a helmet, just a cowboy hat,- not me, but others. The only two times that I have come off a horse in the last 15 years, I WAS wearing a helmet (strange but true). One was when Annie went over backwards with me at a schooling show and ruined my neck and once riding a horse at a hunter lesson/show barn where I worked, after work of course, just hacking in the woods and pasture. He stumbled and fell to his knees at a gallup and pulled my body forward and I hit his neck and got a strawberry on my chin, rolled off to the side and laid in the grass holding the reins and laughing. My daughter thought I had lost my mind, then realized neither horse nor rider was hurt and join me in my laughter. I believe that good things come out of bad experiences and maybe this is a wakeup call to start wearing a helmet, even though this concussion happen on my patio when I fell backwards and hit my head on a table.

Again, good luck with Libby. You both deserve it.
Kathleen
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 1:12 pm:

I never used to wear a helmet either, except at a show when riding hunter. In the last few years I've known so many people that have gotten head injuries, that I always wear one no, even though I often feel like a jerk riding trail on a mellow horse with friends & I'm the only one with a helmet. Like you, all my injuries have been things like walking along and tripping on something, or skiing...not on a horse.
Member:
Zarr

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 4:51 pm:

Kathleen its you that yogi misses that is his depression can he come to you just for a visit?? Yes been there done that.Girlfriend walked my mare thru backyard to beDrOom window took screen off had great visit everybody felt better.We were sooo sneaky husband would never know! Da** forgot about hoofprints in grass leading straight to window!! After he huffed and puffed, he brought her several times til I made the barn! Cindy
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 5:26 pm:

Well, I did it. Had to go see for myself. His eye looks good and he seemed glad to see me. I cleaned the goopy drainage and put neosporin on it as long as I was there. He stood stock still, didn't move a muscle, like he knew. While out there I had to clean the stalls, couldn't stand for them to stand in dirty stalls (even though they can come and go as they wish, they still poop in their stalls). It didn't seem to do any harm, but Dick still need not know what I did!!!
Kathleen
Member:
Zarr

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 6:30 pm:

Watch those footprints besure and dust them out, but good job best meds in the world horse poop and smell and touch of a warm nose, I'm a sick old lady but do love the barn hate dust bunnies! Take care Kathleen.... Cindy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 8:27 pm:

Hah, Kathleen! Cindy is right! Nothing like the barn and the smell of a horse to make you feel better! When I was having all my problems, I'd lie in bed or on the sofa most of the day, then would "sneak" out when Lonnie wasn't around and just touch noses with some of the horses, and talk with my favorite mare. Just really makes you feel better! And, none of us will tell! Being a non horse person, your husband might not understand. I am lucky because my doctor raises TBs and totally understands my feelings!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 8:29 pm:

Hey, Cindy, have you learned to spit yet!?
Member:
Zarr

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 2:38 pm:

Yes but not well, so I got a custom made PURPLE saddle!! and always remember never to practice facing into the wind . Cindy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 5:25 pm:

Please post a picture of your purple saddle! Do you also wear a red hat??

Dr. Snow called me today. He's still away from his office, but had talked with one of his assistants, and it sounds like Libby is having problems. He sounded pretty "down" about her condition. It seems her "good" leg with the foot that started to founder, had foundered again and according to the assistant she is having drainage from the sole. NOT a good thing. We talked at length about her prospects. I am driving down Saturday, as he will be getting back home Saturday morning. I'll meet with him after he's had a chance to look at Libby himself. But, it's not looking good for her right now. I've been in a major "down" all afternoon. I'm going out to the barn and ride a couple of horses, then feed. I'll try not to think too much about Libby until I go down to see her.
Member:
Erika

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 5:39 pm:

Poor Sara, poor Libby, just when it sounded like things were looking up. We are all praying for you both.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 5:40 pm:

Sara,
This can't be happening. Every bit of energy that is in my body will be sent her way. She has to be OK. Please let me know how she is. I'm going out right now and tell Yogi, he'll give it all he has too. (Again, don't tell my husband I went out there!)
Kathleen
Member:
Zarr

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 6:30 pm:

Yes Sara I have a red hat, I'll put it on and Ellie will wear her purple saddle and since I cant seem to learn to post pictures(work in progress) we will close our eyes as we ride and send the VERY BEST thoughts to you and Libby! Cindy
Member:
Canter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 7:16 pm:

Sara, so sorry to here the latest on Libby. I hope it is just a temporary downturn and things will look up by the time of your visit on Saturday. Thinking of you & Libby....

Fran
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 8:07 pm:

Sara
What a horse, this Libby, what strength, heart, courage... We are all in awe, and pulling for her!
Nancy
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 11:23 pm:

My thoughts are with you and Libby, Sara. I know she will be so happy to hear your voice and feel you near. She is in the best place she can be to receive the help she needs medically.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 11:24 pm:

Sara-

Tonight, I send extra prayers for you, and Libby.

Stay strong, and keep your spirits up!

Libby is quite a gal! She is fighting the good fight, and I pray she wins.

My thoughts continue to be with you both.

DJ
Member:
Frances

Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 8:27 am:

Sara - so sorry to hear Libby's not doing so well. Remember, things have looked bleak for her before, and then improved dramatically. Really hoping this will be the case again.

Wishing you and Libby the strength you need and a good outcome.
Member:
Lilo

Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 9:29 am:

Sara,
Best wishes coming your way that Libby will overcome this latest setback. So sorry to hear about that.
All the best,
Lilo
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 11:55 pm:

I'll wait, and pray, for strength and hope...another vigil for us all...we're here...
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 12:48 am:

Again, thank you all.

I was reading on the University of Penn site about the treatments they are using on Barbaros and how he is responding. I'd like to find out more about the sling they are using. Do any of you know anything about it? So far so good with his laminitic foot that was resectioned as well as with his broken leg. He is an amazing horse, and is owned by caring people that seem only to be concerned for his welfare. I read they have started a fund for people to donate to for his care. He's still in intensive care. His case, although different, gives me hope for Libby. Yet, I know his condition is still "on the brink" and could change for the worse at any time. He is a fighter and couragous.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 7:41 am:

Hang in there Sara. Give Libby a hug from me, tell her we're pulling for her.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 11:05 am:

Sara,
Try this link. I emailed it to you also.

https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/whatsnew/article.cfm?id=1615
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 11:07 am:

BTW, give Libby a big hug from Yogi. He can give her strength if anyone can.
Kathleen
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 11:46 am:

Kathleen, thank you so much!! Just what I was looking for.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 - 3:01 pm:

Sara,
I've been afraid to ask, but how did it go on Saturday. How is Libby?
Kathleen
Member:
Djws

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 - 11:19 pm:

Sara-

Praying that all is well.

Let us know something when you are able.

We are all thinking of you, and Libby.

DJ
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 3:10 pm:

I got home from California last night. I DrOve down to see my brother for a day (he's in North San Diego area) before driving home yesterday.

Libby looks good. However, her prognosis is not especially good. I conferred with Dr. Snow and one of his assistant doctors, and with an equine orthopedic specialist, who conferred via phone and email with another specialist in Kentucky.

When the specialist looked at Libby's MRI and x-rays, he was astounded. He said he has never seen anything like it in all his years of practice.When you look at the MRI the tendon just disapears for 4" or so. There isn't a strand of it left, then you can see it again down by her fetlock.

There was a lot of talk between the doctors, tossing around of thoughts and ideas; the outcome of it all is that she can have a stainless steel plate attached to her leg which would make the fetlock immobile and do away with the need for the need for the suspensory tendon. The fetlock would then become arthrodised (??) (become solid) She could never be ridden again, but could be turned out and live a pain free life. She could also be used as a broodmare. Given he foundered left front foot, which could at any given time become her primary problem instead of her secondary problem, the doctors would give her a 40% chance of this surgery being successfull. This is a very uncommon surgery for her particular problem, but the doctors think it is her only real chance. The use of the splint with the hope she will develop scar enough scar tissue to allow her to use her leg is quite a slim chance. There is a stallion at Dr. Snow's which is now in his early 20's. He had a similar proceedure done when he was around 9, and you would never know he ever had a problem unless you really look at his legs and notice how stiff he is on one rear leg. He seems quite happy in his field with his goat friend.
However, he had a plate put in and his fetlock solidified for a more common problem. I was told why, but am afraid my mind was going numb by this timeas I had asked how much this surgery would cost and was told around $12,000 including hospitalization. This is on top of what we've already spent, of course.

So...this weekend I have to figure out if I want this surgery done; if the chance of survival is great enough, and if so, how in the world I'll pay for it all. I told the doctors I would let them know by Monday.

Libby's foundered left foot is doing better. There was seepage around the coronet band in one area and a small amount on the sole. There has been about 12 degrees of rotation. Right now she has betadine soaked pads on her sole and a special type of dense foam pad which lifts up her heel. If she had a normal right front leg, the founder could be handled, even though there has been slight separation of the laminae. The doctors think/hope it can be managed with proper treatment and keeping her in deep bedding, as she is now. The problem, of course, will be managing both bad front legs at the same time. The fact that she "tries to take care of herself" according to Dr. Snow, and that she is easy to work with and cooperative, is a big plus for her recovery if she has this surgery.

When I saw her, she was bright eyed, is eating good, and is moving around surprisingly good, although she is laying down and resting her legs quite a bit.

If any of you, or especially if you, Dr. O., have had, or know someone that has had, any experience with this or a similar surgery, I would love to hear your comments.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 3:17 pm:

No experience here Sara, just wanted to send you some much needed (((((HUGS))))) You'll do what's best, that I'm sure we all know.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 3:28 pm:

Can't help with the technical stuff, but wish Libby well. I guess I can start breathing again, been holding my breath waiting to hear about Libby. Hugs from Yogi
Kathleen
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 3:48 pm:

Thanks for the update, Sara. What a tough position you are in. Can't offer anything but my best wishes and know you'll make the right decision.
Member:
Dres

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 3:49 pm:

More good thoughts coming your way from N.CA ..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 3:52 pm:

To clarify, the surgery itself has an 80% chance of being successful. It is because she has the founder also that her total chance of recovery is only 40%.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 10:02 pm:

Sara-

Honestly, my heart aches for you (and Libby).

I am dumbfounded in the similarity between Libby's, and my baby's, disappearing tendons. If you recall, Beau's measured a little over 3 inches of a complete void. Are they saying if it was because of Libby's infection? The way I understood it with Beau...the infection "ate" his tendons.

Was the doctor from Kentucky associated with Rood and Riddle? That's where we were headed until Beau relapsed, and had the second surgery. He (also) was fighting the founder battle with his "good" right front foot.

I know how difficult it was reaching a decision with Beau. I need to believe (for many reasons) that it was the best thing we could have done.

I admire you for your endurance. This has been a long haul for you. It reflects in the strength Libby has shown. I think you have to do what's best for the two of you. I was able to let Beau go, because I knew he wouldn't be happy just standing and walking. Afterall, he loved to run, he was a race horse. He adored running (and bucking-big grin). For me, I knew it was selfish to keep him as a pasture pet, although I would have. I contemplated his life as a stud horse...he would not have been able to run with his son, or daughter...or even "played around" with a mare. It's a tough call, emotionally and financially. I pray for you to find the best resolution for this difficult decision. Note: I wouldn't have been able to afford the vet bills that you are being faced with either. I know we all stretch a dollar as far a we can for our horses...but with these types of problems, it's overwhelming. I would have sold my soul for Beau, but that wouldn't have paid the bills.

I will add one very strong comment. I could not have gotten through the past 4 months without the support of HA members. I was lost when Beau left this world. No one around me understood what I was going through. You were the first person I wrote to...do you remember? You told me that it would be okay, that it would get better, everything happens for a reason. I still read your letter from time to time, when I get down in the dumps. You have everyone's support with any decision you make...you know that. We all may disagree (from time to time), but we support each other emotionally when the chips are down. So, dear Sara...go with your heart, but listen to your head. Weigh all the factors, the odds, the pluses...write them down, weigh them again. It will come to you, and we will be here to support you with whatever you choose to do.

Our love of horses, good thoughts, compassion, and hopes are with you (and Libby).

When you feel peace within, you will know you have the answer.

Remember...you are an angel. I will testify to that!

DJ (and Beau)
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 11:39 pm:

Thank you, DJ, for that touching post.
Many of us have found really great friendships on this site, and the friendships are characterized by an shared love of all things equine . . .
Sara, I do not envy you in your decision making. I can feel the stress of having to decide what is the best course for you to take. I am very thankful for your example of commitment to your horses . . . and to your parents/family members. I would only be able to make such a decision after praying, counseling with friends, making a pro-con list, and praying some more . . . and then, once I made my decision, I would walk forward with it . . . no looking back. Either decision you make will contain much stress. May the Lord give you wisdom, clarity of mind, to choose what is best.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 12:59 am:

DJ -thanks so much for your post. Having the people here on HA does help a lot. They are a knowledgeable and kind hearted bunch. Like you, I find it helps a lot to have "kindred souls" to bounce ideas on, ask advice and opinions of, and to have them here for moral support.

I've got to go back and read your posts on Beau again. I'd forgotten he also had "missing" tendon. In Libby's case, the vets are supposing that she developed adhesions, which tore, and when they tore they also tore apart the tendon (I assume where it was sutured together.) Once torn, the remaining tendon pieces probably shrank up and were reabsorbed. No one has mentioned the void being caused by infection. Infact, the infection that showed up on the ultra sound was further down on her leg in the fetlock area. When you look at her MRI, however, there are also small little areas that look like maybe they are air pockets. I wonder if these would also be places where there was infection?

Holly, I will have to gather my thoughts together and do some deep thinking and praying also. I usually make pro and con lists when faced with a tough decission, but in this case so far all I can think of is Libby's deep, dark eyes...and I keep having flashes of her in my mind running across the field, tail in the air, head up, pestering the other horses until they too start running. What would happen to her if she was out in the field and the others started to run and she tried to run also, I wonder? I didn't think to ask the doctors that question.

She would make a great brood mare. Her mother is a wonderful broodmare; a good mother. Libby is very well bred. She'd probably be happy being a mother. Tonight I'm leaning towards going ahead with the surgery, if I can only figure out how to pay for it. We are just about to order 3 MD stalls in a line (like a shed row) to put next to our barn so all the horses can have their own stall when the weather is bad. If I cancel the stalls, I can use that money for her surgery; but we've been wanting to add the stalls for several years...think I'll go to bed. Perhaps my head will be more clear in the a.m.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers for both Libby and me.
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 1:17 am:

Good Night, Sara. Sleep tight and know that thoughts and prayers go with you.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 8:37 am:

Sara, this may be inappropriate of me, but at this point I would strongly council euthanasia. I feel you are having trouble making this decision but since it is a consideration, taking into account the strength of the diagnosis, the prognosis, and cost not only in money but time and emotions, it would be my choice.
DrO
Member:
Frances

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 8:39 am:

Oh Sara, my heart goes out to you - what a tough decision to make. I'm sure we can all imagine ourselves in your position - and it's a terrible feeling. My very very best wishes to you at this time.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 8:43 am:

Sara,

Wonderful words from everyone. What I do when faced with a tough decision is make a list of pros on one side, cons on the other and keep looking at it and adding to it as I think of things over a course of days. Oops, I see you said you do that too.

I also go to sleep every night asking God and my angels to show me the answer in a dream. Or show me something for guidance.

I won't ask for your right answer but I will ask that my angels help you during this overwhelming time in your life, and Libby's life.

If you have horses that have passed over The Rainbow Bridge, ask for their guidance too. I believe they'll tell you if they are ready for Libby or not.

(((hugs)))
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 8:50 am:

Sara,
I can't offer any words that others haven't already. You will know what to do when it is time to make the decision. Go with what is best for both of you.
Kathleen
Member:
Dres

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 10:47 am:

Dr. O , I don't feel you were out of line at all.. My vets would tell me which way they were leaning when I had to make a decision on what to do with my mare when she broke her neck.. .. I value theirs/ your expertise in my decision makings, as well as my heart,,,..

All the best Sara..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Canter

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 12:00 pm:

Sara, I have no words of wisdom to add. I wish that there was something to say to help make this decision for you and to ease your agonizing heart. I know that whatever decision you make, it will be with Libby's best interest at heart and I hope you find peace and strength in knowing that.

You know we're all here for you!

Fran
Member:
Twhgait

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 12:14 pm:

DrO, I ditto Ann. I would rely heavily on my vet's and this site's expertise in times of such a huge decision as this. I know from my own personal experiences that some of my decisions were made just to avoid the grief that I knew was coming. It's a hard place to be.

Sara, I'm sending you all my thoughts!! You've done a lot for Libby and she is very, very lucky to have you. I admire your courage thru this whole experience and want to say you have very beautiful soul to have given so much of yourself for her.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 12:46 pm:

Dr. O, that is what Dr. Snow advised also, although he was telling me what he would do if it were his horse. One point in his decision making, however, is that he has no pasture for turnout, which complicates his keeping a lame horse.

On the negative side of this decision is that fact that her problems involve her front feet/legs. I keep thinking of Barbaros, but his injury and founder involve rear legs. I think more of the horse's weight is carried on the front and this would probably make the healing process more difficult for Libby.

At this point I am doing a lot of going back and forth. It is a difficult decision to make. It's easy for me to make such a decision if the animal is obviously suffering and won't live much longer; but for a young animal who doesn't seem to have given up on herself yet, it's very hard. I don't want her to suffer, though, -to go through the ordeal of a long surgery (about 3 hrs.) and months of recuperation and rehab, to wind up in pain and have to be put down anyway. So..I tetter back and forth. If only we could foretell the future!!
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 1:20 pm:

Dear Sara,
My heart aches for you - just remember your special, special Libby will be galloping with the wind in her mane and tail free of pain if she tells you it's time to meet others over the Rainbow Bridge. I believe these decisions are the most difficult we make in a life time, wanting to hold on to those precious friend, but we also must think what is best for them, what they would choose. What ever that may be, you'll be told which is best, and my a High Power guide you in this, bring peace and strength to do what is best for Libby.
Love,
Shirley
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 4:26 pm:

Dr O, I wish I'd had veterinarians as candid as you when I was having to assess critical cases. I don't think you are inappropriate at all and every responsible owner would welcome all additional educated opinions. In fact my experience has found that most vets are extremely hesitant to volunteer opinions. Maybe that's a conclusion I've

Sara, my heart goes out to you as I stated before. Nobody else can make this decision but you and yours. I've been there and if you want to PM me I'm at sgrimm@qltinc.com or 604 533 9344.

Sue
Member:
Djws

Posted on Saturday, Oct 21, 2006 - 9:16 pm:

Sara-

I remember the day that the Vets (3 different specialists) gave their opinions concerning Beau. The were all in favor of euthanasia. I countered with every "what if" I could conjure. They stood firm. (All involved had a month of daily, intensive contact with Beau).

One young Dr. gave Beau his final injection. He had tears in his eyes as they lowered him to his side. I will never forget his emotion (which I felt embarrassed him), or his words of "I'm so sorry, but you have done this horse a kindness, take solace in that".

I'm sure it's not easy for a vet to recommend to us to part with our beloved animals...it has to be stressful for them, as well. So, I feel they do so with the utmost care and consideration. I believe with all of my heart that with their education, experience, and devotion to the care of animals, they "foresee" for us...this is a gift that God has given them to help us in our time of need.

When I went to see Beau that last day, he looked normal. His ears were up, he made that soft, sexy, "hey, hurry up", husky nicker, that I so loved. His leg was wrapped, otherwise he seemed the same as usual. How could they advise me to put this big, beautiful boy into a forever sleep? I was almost outraged...until I looked into his eyes.

The love that I felt (feel) for him overflowed...but something was missing in those eyes. He spoke volumes to me. He was tired, hurting, and he knew I was there to make that decision. It was if he were urging me. He was very snuggly that day, he couldn't get close enough to me (which was different for this 2 year old cold). He was depending on me to release him. We spent those last hours quietly (he was only on Bute), he nuzzled my many tears, and would lay his head on my shoulder, breathing into my hair. It broke my heart, but I followed my heart. I told you I blew into his nostrils at the end, his last breath was blowing back to me (something we did from early on). Our eyes were locked...he seemed to be saying, "thank you". I hope HE knew I was saying, "I love you".

Gee, Sara, I'm sitting here bawling 4 months later, for you, for Libby, for Beau. I miss him, but I feel him with me, and I know I made the correct decision. Just as I got the sign from Beau's eyes, you will get it from somewhere within, also.

In my experiences in nursing, I find that many people try to fight(and hang on), for the sake of those (that will remain behind) who are having a tough time letting go of them. Maybe animals do the same, I don't know.

The 2 long surgeries, the year of restricted stall rest, the knowing Beau could never run again, the probabilities of further problems and pain...I just couldn't do it. Me, I listened to the Vets, to my heart, and more importantly, to my Beau.

The answer will come softly to you, my friend. Whatever your choice is, it will have your love for Libby written all over it. You have done the best for Libby throughout this whole ordeal, and I know you will continue to do so.

I pray intensely for you, and Libby. My heart aches for you, Sara.

Perhaps if you go to the barn alone, Kellee will send you a message...remember, we believe.

DJ
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 - 12:10 am:

Sara,
DJ has said it all, my feelings to the letter. The eyes will tell it all. The last breath sentence made me catch my breath, as my son was holding Sierra's head as she passed softly to the ground, and he felt her last breath, which he said was the sweetest thing he'd ever smelled. Later that evening he had a "vision" of her running out of a foggy clearing toward my deceased niece that was waiting for him in a lawn chair in green pastures. Sierra's way of letting us know she'd "arrived". My grief was so very deep her spirit could not penetrate my thoughts at that time. Believe my dear and it shall be.
Love, Shirl
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 - 9:14 am:

Nothing like tears with my Sunday breakfast.

It was over a 3 year period that I tried to convince myself that our Fancy was just having joint problems, thus the lameness. It wasn't until I saw her standing with that leg under her as far as possible that I admitted to myself that she was in a bad way. The vet had told us her knee was going and it wouldn't get better, but you want to believe they are wrong of course.

Seeing pictures of how much she had aged helped me to realise she was hurting. And the eyes. She just plain looked tired of living. Seeing her fall to her knees over that last winter was heart breaking and I knew it was time.

The day before we had the vet out, we groomed her, and trimmed her bridle path and ears. She was a Queen through out it all. I think she thought she was going out for a nice spring ride...even to the end she was willing to go with a rider and we took pictures of me and our daughter sitting on her. So much heart.

I agree with DJ, it's got to be hard for vets to make the call. Our vet had dewy looking eyes after wards also.

Drats, good thing I bought a new box of kleenex for the computer desk!

Sara,

if it's Libby's time, she will be in good company. I believe there's a section of heaven just for former HA horses!

We're all here for you.
Member:
Cheryl

Posted on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 - 9:41 am:

Sara, I haven't posted, figured there were enough posting who could give you helpful information. I've hoped all through the process that Libby would come through with flying colors - What an outstandingly beautiful mare she is ! I've been through the agonizing, and altho it was 10 years ago, I still question my decision. Whatever you decide, just know that we are all right here with and for you.
Cheryl
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 - 10:12 am:

Sara,
Let Libby tell you what she wants and needs. She does that, as you know. She has a huge heart, so Yogi tells me.
Kathleen
Member:
Zarr

Posted on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 - 1:28 pm:

Sara, this very hard to type thru tears have tried several times maybe I'll make it this time!I went thru this last year and defied EVERYBODY for 5 years in the end Cheyenne told me" now mom it's time" but until she said it was OK, I would/could not put her down so yes Libby is your best guide!! Love and Peace to you both, Cindy
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 2:24 pm:

The fact that Libby is so far away makes it all the more difficult to make a decision as I can't look into her eyes. I have to go by what her eyes told me when I last saw her...and how she was over all.

I have been thinking of little else all weekend, as you can imagine. I have talked with various vets and done quite a bit of research. If it weren't for her bad right leg, her founder will most probably be managable. Although I've never had a horse with laminitis as severe as hers, I've know people who have and with proper management and care their horses lived long, happy lives.

The surgery on her right leg has an 80% or greater of being successful. It's the two together that give her such bad odds.

After talking again this morning with the vet who would do the surgery I have gone against a lot of advice I've heard, including good Dr. O's, and decided to take the gamble and have the surgery done IF her foundered foot is still stable and no worse, and IF she is still doing as good as she was when I saw her last week. I am waiting for a call from Dr. Snow to find out about her current condition. My husband supports me in this, even though finding the money means we put off some other things, and I might have to bring my stallions home and not show this next year. He really likes this mare, as do I.

If she has no pressure sores in the area of the surgery (remember she had some small ones and I don't know just where they are in regard to the proposed incision site), they will be able to do the surgery first of next week. When she comes out of surgery, she will have the horse version of a "walking cast" so she can bare weight on her right leg. Needless to say, she will be in the hospital for several more months. A lot will depend on how "smart" she is about taking care of herself and how cooperative she is when she is being worked on after surgery. But, she is a tough girl and strong minded. She didn't look at all ready to give up when I last saw her.

If all goes well (I must put that "IF" in there) once she comes home and is recovered, she will be able to be turned out with the other horses. She will also be able to run again, and she will be able to carry a foal. It just seems to me that these "ifs" are worth the gamble. (and people wonder why I don't gamble when in Las Vegas!)

So...more prayers and good thoughts for Libby everyone. I keep dreaming about her running in the field again; I hope that's a good sign.
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 2:41 pm:

Sara,
You will be at the top of prayer list along with Libby! My "positive healing thoughts" will be sent every day. You are doing what you feel is right for Libby and following your heart. Lots of love, hugs and good thoughts and prayers will reach you both every day. She is a special horse and she has a special "mom".
Love, Shirl
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:00 pm:

Sara,
You go girl. If it's meant to be it will happen. You are doing what you believe is right for Libby, so if the docs say she is ready for surgery, I say (say what? - Yogi says Libby is too nice to go away) good luck and we will be behind you 100%.
Kathleen
Member:
Cheryl

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:05 pm:

Sara I'm so happy you have made this decision. Robbie went through two surgeries on his RH - stepped through a piece of sheet metal ( before he was rescued ) He managed - somehow - to come out of it totally sound. With both Robbie and Yogi pulling for Libby she has to make a success of this. Prayers non-stop.
Cheryl
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:19 pm:

Go for it, Sara. May the Great Physician and the One who created Libby and all things, guide the surgeons and care-givers in the upcoming months. May the surgeons be humble, asking for wisdom and blessing. May you be filled with hope and peace . . . and may Libby endure and experience the miracle of God's grace.
Member:
Djws

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 4:56 pm:

Sara, I'd gamble with you in Vegas anytime! I wish you and Libby a Royal Flush! I also hope the doctors will find an ace up their sleeves, if they need it! Meanwhile, I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers!

Now, no "ifs". Remember how horses read our minds, our body language, and how they feel what we are feeling...so, only WHEN all goes well-that's our motto. Okay?

Libby will put her butt into the wind, her head down, her ears forward, and come through this surgery with flying colors!

Dreams do come true. We believe.

Much love to you from Beau and I.

DJ

To the sick, while there is life there is hope-CICERO
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 4:59 pm:

Positive healing thoughts and prayers from me, Brave, Nick, Suzi and Gail to Libby, and lots of (((Hugs))) to you. You and Libby are in my thoughts daily. Take good care...and kiss that husband of yours, he must be a keeper ;)
Member:
Zarr

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 5:51 pm:

"The sage is burnt .. it's prayer do heed.. to heal with strength for those in need .. we join our hearts... our souls... our hopes, for heavens strenght and love to cope" this is part of the Navajo's healing prayer Ellie and I took aride to the hill top and burned some sage and prayed in Libby's name .... Cindy
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 7:50 pm:

Be thinking of you...

XXX OOO
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 8:16 pm:

Best wishes for you and Libby coming your way!
Member:
Juliem

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 9:00 pm:

Sara, I've followed this post but had nothing to add (fortunately no experience, knock, knock), but you were in my thoughts all weekend. I was hoping this was the decision you would make! It just "feels" right! Sometimes reason just has to take a back seat to intuition I guess. Along with so many others, I'll be pulling for you and Libby. Julie
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 6:16 am:

Wishing Libby good luck.
DrO
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 7:48 am:

Sara, you know your heart, Libbys heart and have looked into her soul. Go for it, we're here for you.

Give your husband a big hug and tell him he will be rewarded 10x over for supporting both of his "girls" through out this.

DrO.,

Would it be inappropriate to have something set up on here for members to make anonymous donations to help other members through tough times? If I am way out of line with the suggestion, my apologies, I do not know how this would work from the business end of things.

Angie
Member:
Frances

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 7:50 am:

That's great Sara! I somehow felt this would be your decision, in view of Libby's youth and courage and your amazing commitment to her.

To hear that if all goes well she'll be able to be a normal member of the herd again makes a huge difference I believe.

Sending strong healing vibes your way!
Member:
Canter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 8:12 am:

Wishing Libby the absolute best of luck with the surgery!!!
Member:
Banthony

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 8:37 am:

Sara, best of luck.

I definitely want to be your horse in my next life!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 9:15 am:

Thank you all. Cindy, love the Navajo prayer! As of late yesterday afternoon Libby's founder is still stable, so that's good news. Her condition could change, though, which would mean no surgery would be possible.

I appreciate all you good wishes. It means a lot to have support! I appreciate your good wishes, Dr. O., even though I'm sure you rolled your eyes when I said we'd decided on the surgery! She's a tough girl; I just feel she deserves every chance.
Member:
Christel

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 10:15 am:

Sara, been following this post and have to admit, Im proud of you, (I think I would have done the same) as long as Libby is showing signs of wanting to go on and still in there fighting, how could you just quit her. You had mentioned earlier the life in her eyes- only you could see that the rest of us are seeing only the dreary facts, I think you are doing the right thing. If this doesn't work out you will at least know you tried, thats the best any of us can do.
As someone else said- YOU GO GIRL- will continue to send positive thoughts your way.
Heck- whats money anyhow- you cant take it with you when you go and you just make your own children lazy when you leave it with them.
Chris
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 11:08 am:

No Sara, I never roll my eyes at such situations and have my fingers crossed it works out as you hope.
DrO
Member:
Lilo

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 11:18 am:

Best of luck for Libby and for you! I hope she knows there are many rooting for her!
Lilo
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 11:52 am:

Update on Libby: I had thought she was having surgery this week, but it's next week. The drs. wanted to allow more time to see how her founder did. The good news is that she has improved. The drs. feel she has stabilized enough to do the surgery, she is putting a lot of weight on the foot, which is still padded, and seems quite comfortable. She has no pressure sores that will be near the surgery site. She has a couple of small rubs (hair off) on the front of her leg, that is all. She is still bright, eating good, etc. and has been going out in-hand to graze a little grass. When the brace was removed to check her leg, she was able to bear more weight on her leg than she has in the past, although it obviously is still painful. With the improvement in her foot, and her over all good condition and attitude, the dr. said he was glad I'd decided to do the surgery; that he thought it was in her best interest. So, I feel very encouraged! Now, we just keep our fingers crossed and pray she holds steady or continues to improve between now and Nov. 7th, when she's scheduled. I will try and go down for her surgery, although Dr Snow's assistant will trailer her over to Alamo Pintada for me.
Member:
Cheryl

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 12:23 pm:

Ah - Sara - this is such great news. As long as Libby is willing to try it would be a real shame to tell her no. We're all with you.
Cheryl
Member:
Dres

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 1:36 pm:

Sara , your story / mare give me hope that we too will get thru this.. .. I have been reading and sending you well thoughts thru out.. and now we too are going thru something very similar.. ITS SUCKS DON'T IT..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Djws

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 3:11 pm:

Fantastic news! This mare certainly has stamina, determination, and true grit! I just keep praying for all of you. We're right there with you, Sara...all the way!
DJ
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 3:24 pm:

Libby has spoken, Sara has listened. Great news.

Good luck,
Yogi
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 5:39 pm:

Ann, IT SURE DOES!!! I was so sorry to read about your problems. It's either a really bad year for tendons, or there's a lot more tendon injuries than I was ever aware of. It seems like there are quite a few people on HA whose horses have had a tendon injury of some kind within the last year.

I've been following Barbaros' progress, and it has given me a lot of hope. That horse has so much heart and "grit!" I know his situation is different than Libbys, and from your fillys', but the fact that he was in such dire straights, has had complications, and yet has not given up and is doing so good just gives me encouragement.

I know with people that the persons will has a lot to do with their recovery. (I've read that the Indians (here they call themselves that, not "native americans) were able to will themselves to die when they felt their time had come.) I think animals are much the same in this respect as people.

I hope your filly heals without complications. I guess you know by now it will be a long process, but your patience (and hers) will pay off and the two of you will have a special bond when it's done.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 5:45 pm:

DJ, I can't tell you and the others how much it means to have so much support. It seems like such a trivial thing, yet when you're tired and "down" it really helps to know that there are so many "kindred souls" out there. When I last saw Libby I told her she had a lot of people sending her good wishes and that she'd better not let them all down. She would love to know she was the center of so much attention, especially if each of you "out there" brought her cookies. (Sorry, Kathleen, she likes cookies better than the mini-wheats.)
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Oct 30, 2006 - 6:47 pm:

...Just back from Louisville, Sara,or rather just recouperated from Louisville, and I'll email you all about it later. I'm so glad to hear about Libby's stubborn refusal to give up! And yours, too. The two of you are one strong unit! I think you are completely right in your decision to give it a try.
Nancy
Member:
Canter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 31, 2006 - 7:55 am:

Very encouraging news, Sara! Tell Libby to keep up the good work! I can only imagine the relief you are feeling. Can't wait to hear good news after the surgery.

Fran
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Sunday, Nov 12, 2006 - 10:46 am:

Another update - Libby's surgery has been put off once more. She has a small pressure sore right where the surgeon needs to make his incission, so he has to wait until the sore heals. He doesn't want to take a chance of the bacteria on the pressure sore infecting the tendon when he cuts.

Libby continues to do good; she is at Alamo Pintada now, the surgeon's clinic. Her laminitic foot continues to improve. Her brace has been removed to allow her sore to heal, and she is now in heavy legwrap with a built up shoe which prevents her from lowering her fetlock. She is off the bute, eating, and drinking good. Hopefully her sore will heal soon. I was told it was small and not deep.
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Sunday, Nov 12, 2006 - 11:10 am:

That's great news, Sara. Thanks for the update and will keep sending positive thoughts your way.

Sue
Member:
Dres

Posted on Sunday, Nov 12, 2006 - 12:07 pm:

Sara, what is a heavy leg wrap? I ask cus my filly will have to wear one when they take the splint off?

The pressure sores are part of this process as I am finding out also :-(

Libby sounds like she is adjusting well tho.. I look for anything positive, the slightest try makes me jump for joy!~

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Nov 13, 2006 - 10:47 am:

The dr. didn't specify, but I'm assuming it's a quilt or padding covered by tight vet wrap. Guess it could be a soft cast, also.
Member:
Juliem

Posted on Thursday, Nov 30, 2006 - 12:43 pm:

Sara, I've been thinking of you and Libby. If you have the time and inclination, could you post an update? Will understand if you can't. Best wishes, Julie
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