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  Discussion on Non hay related COPD
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2000 - 6:09 pm:

I have a mare who traditionally starts coughing in early Fall and who continues to cough badly until spring. She is much worse outside. This year I have given no hay during the day, 12 hours of pasture at night and beet pulp based complete feed, right on schedule she has just started coughing again. Typically she will be unusable
and miserable all winter. She coughs up thick mucous and is helped only by dexamethasone and or Ventipulmin. Pred doesn't seem to help much. I have considered trying to relocate this 13 year old mare but where in the US would I have the best chance of giving her a healthier, longer life?

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2000 - 1:30 am:

Hi Valerie, I'm curious as to what part of the country you reside in? Your problem is the complete opposite of most of us dealing with COPD. I am praying for the cold weather to hit!

Margie

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2000 - 6:15 am:

Let me use this as a reminder: one of the advantages to filling out your profile is it gives up all a idea of where you are and makes discussion more relevant.

Valerie, without knowing the specific allergy involved we can only guess. Can you give us a very thorough description of the history of your horses cough with an emphasis of why you think it worsens outside?

Margie, while this is the opposite of the Summer Pasture form and all horses with COPD have increased sensitivity to heat, all horses with hay mold type allergies get worse the more hay they are fed and the longer they are kept up: common management concerns of winter time care.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2000 - 9:57 am:

Hello, thanks for responding, my mare and I live in N. Central TN. She started coughing almost 6 years ago, the first year it was just a little in the fall then we went to Fla to compete and she was fine, the second year there was more coughing but again when we went to Fla she was fine. The third year we didn't go down south and she had a horrible winter, at that time she was diagnosed as a COPD horse even though she is not "heavy". Since then I have tried all the normal management practices, even had my stall floors concreted so avoid any possible mold growth. I have tried every bedding imaginable even vacuumed shavings which must have gold in them according to the price. The first year that the mare was really bad I tried to keep her out of the barn and I could hear her coughing from the house, she looked very distressed and her cough turned to a tight wheezy sounding grunting kind of cough. Within 10 minutes of being in a dry barn she was noticeably brighter and coughing less. I tried this several times including leaving her in a 2 sided shelter outside and she was terrible. She has had all the available allergy tests (useless, according to the results she is allergic to everything in the world) she has been desensitized to approximately 40 different allergens. Only once have I had her scoped and bacteria were found, probably an effect rather than a cause of the mucous. Three years ago my local vet found an article in the AAERP proceedings book that mentioned Ester-C as being helpful, this in large doses did seem to help. Note that this mare can be worked hard in the summer and has wonderful "wind", that is until this past summer when she wasn't quite as good and coughed a little all summer. Prior to this year I have been giving her hay, she ate the same hay in the early summer that she had the previous winter and was fine on it. Last winter was the first time I tried Pred, I wanted to keep her (and myself) going all winter, any time I DrOpped below 400 mg a day she got worse so my local vet said to only give 20 tabs EOD to prevent scarring of the lungs and give Ventipulmin to keep her lungs clear and slow the coughing. This winter the mare is pregnant so i really don't want to give any meds that might hurt. The vets at U.T. feel that because of the timing of her problems that she is probably allergic to molds, we have tried to desensitize her to all molds that she tested positive to and that are usually found in this part of the country. Interestingly enough I can forcast the weather with this mare, she coughs a lot worse in the few hours before a rain?
Good thing we don't live in England (thats where I am from originally). I am willing to send her to board in Florida but after so many years she may not respond the same way as she used to down there, I was wondering if out west would be an option although what I really want is to keep my baby and keep riding her. She is a trakehner, and her dam died of respiratory problems after having heaves for years (allergy to Bahia grass has been strongly implicated in Fla). Obviously there is a genetic tendency.
I have a feeling that the smoking tobacco barns in this part of the country might of been the original cause, the air can be smoky starting in late August and this could of caused the initial irritation that allowed the allergies to take hold? or am I way off the mark with that?
Anyway, thanks again for the response, any suggestions will be appreciated.

Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2000 - 6:16 am:

Gracious, I see thousands of dollars has been spent on testing and desensitization, none of which have been shown to be helpful in scientific studies. Yo are right to be concerned about the use of corticosteroids in pregnant mares, it should be avoided at all costs. This comes not so much because we have seen problems in mares but because it will induce abortions in many other species. I agree the best solution to your problem is trying other areas of the country but can only guess what what areas might and might not work: it will be trial and error.
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2000 - 7:53 pm:

Dr O. You are right about the thousands of $. Why do the Dr.s at U.T. still tell people the tests are accurate and helpful? Did I read somewhere recently that one of the Universities has the capability of introducing an allergen directly into the respiratory tract via a mask? This would be far more accurate, would they then be able to desensitize the horse to the correct allergen? most of the non-medical (alternative) products on the shelves are supposed to boost the imune system, but isn't an allergy an over-reaction by the immune system? it seems to be contradictary.
Surely I can't have the only horse in the world who has backwards COPD???
Best regards, Val

Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2000 - 3:28 pm:

Hello Val,
That is disheartening that the University said that. I do hear from some who should know better: Well it's not great but might yield some useful information but have yet to run across any work where even this weak support is true.

You are exactly right about immune boosters: it is not logical from what we know at this time. I have not heard of aresol desenitization but it does make some sense: but you have to know exactly what the horse is allergic too.

You know in the back of my mind I seem to remember that some asthmatics bronchi are sensitized to cold air. Hold on a minute...There is an example, many asthmatics are hypersensitive to cold air (Nielsen KG, Bisgaard H. Lung function response to cold air challenge in asthmatic and healthy children of 2-5 years of age. Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 2000 Jun;161(6):1805-9.) I wonder... I have seen other such reports but that was the first I could draw up.

The other step that may be worth while is a test called a BAL test. Not all allergic reactions are the same and some types may respond to other treatments see : Equine Diseases: Respiratory System: Chronic Lower Airway Disease for more details.

There are aersolized corticosteroid treatments that are as effective as oral pred at much lower doses but far more expensive.
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Sep 16, 2000 - 10:03 am:

Dr O. Thanks for the reply, the Allergy testing via direct intro of the allergen through a mask was basically to aid diagnosis.From what I can remember it was a way to definitively determine which molds or pollens was actually causing the lung problems, I just don't remember which University was doing this test, I think it was one of the Northeastern schools. I have tried the aeromask on this horse but she violently objected to the inhaler, (not the mask itself, she was OK with it) when I gave a dose of the inhaler either the taste or smell made her go balistic, she's 17 hh and I'm 5.3 so it was a dangerous situation and I eventually gave up, even though I think this would be the safest way to give her steroids. Down in FL they are using Flovent and Seravent on these horses with good results. I will check into the BAL test and will read the article you suggested, in the meantime if you have any thoughts about which vet hospital might be doing the research I mentioned let me know and I will contact them.
Best regards, Val

Posted on Saturday, Sep 16, 2000 - 10:19 am:

Dr. O. I just finished reading (or trying to read) the articles you mentioned. It seems to me that much more could of been done re: diagnostics on my mare. It seems also that most of this research is being done at Tufts or New Bolton, a long way from here, do you think that one of the clinics in KY could do a good job if I took her in? I have used Rood & Riddle for other problems, and I know other people who have used Hagyard McGee in Lexington with success, should I at least call them? silly question, of course I'll call them. I'll let you know what they say.
In the meantime I'll dust off the aeromask and try it again, maybe there is a tranquilizer that would help and would not be harmful to the pregnancy.
Thanks a bunch
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