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Discussion on Frequent urination in older Irish Draught Welsh Cob X
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New Member:
Zara
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 - 10:54 am:
Dear Dr O,
I have a slightly overweight Bay rescued gelding pony late teens early twenties,Recently he has had increased clear urine output (when ridden may urinate fully twice within a five minute period) then every couple of hours at rest. He lives out 24/7 with companion in Wales U.K. His diet is forage,grass hay and mineral lick. I have uploaded the results for the blood work and urinalysis as follows which did show some abnormalities (Increased protein and some white blood cells in urine. Blood:- Red cells show mild degree of anisocytosis and occasional band form neutrophils seen)(copied from vet form). He also had an ultra sound and no abnormalities were found. My Vet is unable to ascertain the nature of this problem and says I shouldn't be concerned. They do not believe it is Cushings (based on physical presentation and bloods?) and there are no signs of infection. Liver and kidney functions are normal. I am still very worried however as this is a definite change from the norm for this pony, even although he presents as normal in himself and I wonder if this isn't perhaps a condition that has just been caught very early on. I would be extremely grateful for any opinions you may offer.
Many Thanks
Sara
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 - 10:08 am:
Welcome Sara,
the RBC abnormalities are determined by human examination and therefore somewhat subjective, if your veterinarian is used to seeing this interpretations not associated with disease he may disregard such reports. Also a one plus protein on a 4 plus scale is probably not significant either.
Considering the age of your pony and the lack of clinical symptoms (I presume that your pony acts like he is healthy other than the PU/PD) and related lab abnormalities Cushings has to be at the top of the list and there are no ways to rule this out positively from clinical or lab signs. Yes other symptoms would be nice to firm up the diagnosis but sometimes this is the first thing to appear. It is just a statistical finding: horses of this age often have PU/PD as a primary clinical sign of Cushings. For more on this see the article.
That said are there any other symptoms of disease or unusual findings that could relate to this, for instance does he consume a lot of salt?
DrO
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New Member:
Zara
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 - 8:39 pm:
Dear Dr O,
Firstly, thank you for responding so quickly and for taking the time to look at my problem.
In answer to your query about salt consumption, It is certainly possible that he may have taken varying amounts - he has free access to a chelated mineral block, however I did notice and comment to my vet that small amounts( several minimal,albeit flimsy tufts) of winter coat still remain along both sides of his abdomen. After examination, the vet felt that this was not significant due to the abnormally slow, cool and wet spring we had just experienced, she reported that she had recently seen many horses with the same minimal amount of winter coat remaining. I however believe that it may be of more significance than is given credit. Perhaps my options now would be to remove the mineral block(?)and observe. Then also possibly consider this new 'test' (she has now suggested) for Cushings based at a lab I believe to be in Cambridgeshire U.K. I know that another member of your site alluded to this procedure also. I remain unsure/unclear as to the accuracy and reliability of this test. Dr O, if I rule out excess salt intake, would it be prudent for me to tighten up the day to day management of this pony (as per your article regarding husbandry of a pony with Cushings)and just see what transpires? Unless there is any weight loss would I need to improve/alter his diet (currently medium quality grass hay free access in winter, forage and occasional Flax oil - I have never 'fed' or supplemented these horses because of their tendency to be overweight and light work load.
Again, Thanks
Sara
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 30, 2006 - 11:22 pm:
Sara, can you describe the test or give me the name?
Essentially if the PUPD is do to Cushings the only think likely to improve it is the pergolide and I have a hard time justifying the cost for symptoms that don't have any serious consequences. If the ponies condition is good neither would I make any changes in management. If salt blocks are not disappearing rapidly I see no reason to remove it. Otherwise I guess you should just relax: this is a normal part of horses getting older and your pony seems to be doing quite well.
DrO
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New Member:
Zara
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Posted on Monday, Jul 3, 2006 - 9:05 am:
Dear Dr O,
I will endeavour to get the details of the test for you as soon as I can. In the mean time, can I just say that you and this site have been such a great source of comfort and help to us. It can be very isolating living where we do without even a hint of an equine vet for many, many miles. Your site is an absolute godsend; an oasis in the sea of misinformation and confusion which is the internet.
Thank you so much! Best wishes to you.
Sara (and Tom)
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New Member:
Zara
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 - 7:49 am:
Dear Dr O,
As promised I have managed to find information regarding the 'Cushings test'. I have uploaded the document for you to see. This is what I understand the test to be but I have very limited understanding of what the test actually consists of or why, I'm afraid. My Farrier told me yesterday that the pony is showing signs of mild laminitis now (the soles have flattened and the white line has slightly expanded - he didn't feel it was necessary to provide special shoeing at this stage). I had noticed this at least 5 weeks ago, but the farriers apprentice told me that there was nothing to worry about. The pony is on restricted grazing with soaked hay (6hrs) and oat straw and is showing no signs of a pottery gait, pain, etc at the moment. I have today managed to find an equine vet prepared to travel out to x-ray his feet, the next step is to have this 'test' on Monday. I spoke to The laminitis Trust (UK) helpline who faxed through the info in the attached document. I hope this is helpful to you and would be grateful to have your opinion on it's validity. I hope this post is in the right section Dr O with so many factors (Cushings, polydipsia, laminitis), I wasn't sure where to put it so carried on from the original thread, hope this is ok.
Many Thanks,
Sara
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New Member:
Zara
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 - 8:17 am:
Dear Dr O,
In my haste I think I failed to recognise that this test is actually the one which you refer to on your paper regarding Cushings. Apologies
Sara
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Blood and urine analysis