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Discussion on White line and crack in hoof
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 5, 2006 - 10:52 am:
Dr. O I have read everything on this site about WLD. Still have a couple of questions.
My three year old has a persistent center crack in lower inch or so of her "using foot". I call it that because that is the one she always uses to test things she's curious about, paws with when impatient, and uses to splash herself with in the water trough!
I thought the crack might be from all this action but the barefoot trimmer say there is an infection there that is keeping the crack from growing out.
My barefoot trimmer recommends Clean Trax and claims that it is the only thing that works to stop the crack in my filly's toe. She says one treatment will do it. Is it any different than formaldehyde? I couldn't find any info on what is in it.
She says it works best because it doesn't necrotize tissues, and that fungus lives on necrotic tissue, not live tissue. And that formaldehyde and some other treatments will kill the live tissue, providing more "food" for the fungus.
Another supposed advantage is that one treatment usually does it. Will one treatment of anything be enough?
Unfortunately I am battling so much mud this year because of the weather. All my barns and sheds are surrounded by seas of churned up mud. In that case, will I need to keep her stalled 'til the hoof grows out completely eliminating the crack? She has never been kept in round the clock, could be a challenge.
Would frequent treatment with formaldehyde during wet spells have prevented this? I've read how many people recommend it for just toughening up the feet.
I tend to go with your recommendation of formaldehyde, but since she is the one I have to look in the face, I thought I'd ask your opinion on her recommendations. If the Clean Trax is basically the same thing, I guess there is no harm in doing it her way?
What do you think, and do you have any other suggestions for treatment or care afterword?
Erika
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New Member:
Mzollars
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 5, 2006 - 11:26 am:
Erika, I'm so glad to find someone else with the exact same problem! My 6 year old mare has the same problem with her right front. This is also the one she "uses". She will actually stand and put both feet in the water trough and paw. If anyone knows a good prevention for that I would love to know, because I finally had to replace the trough. At one point she had huge quarter cracks in both front feet, and I found the only thing that helped was having the farrier out every 4-5 weeks, patching and trimming little bits at a time. It's a painfully long process, but they eventually grew out with no permanent damage. I don't know anything about the Clean Trax either but would definitely recommend the formaldehyde. Good luck with her. I'm sure it will work out fine. megan
p.s. My mare hates being stalled so I figured I would take the lesser of the two evils and leave her turned out, it was spring and very muddy. I was just very carful to clean daily.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 11:11 am:
Hello Erika,
I don’t know anything about Clean Trax either. If the farrier has diagnosed white line disease I would follow the instructions in the article. The crack should also be looked at as possibly indicating unusual abducting forces on the horn at the point from trimming imbalance and possibly a foot too long. I can’t say these exist, WLD alone might result in such a crack, but often they all go together.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 6, 2006 - 5:03 pm:
Well, she didn't call it white line disease but felt it was caused by a fungus that has interfered with the inner wall/insensitive laminae--which after reading a bunch, I took to mean WLD.
"Unusual abducting forces", I'm not certain I know exactly what that means other than the torque from the toe being long? She seems to take a lot off the toe, but it still self-chips when we are out on the trail long before the next appointment. I take this as an indication that what you are saying is possibly correct.
Will discuss all this with her at next appointment. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 10:19 am:
Hmm, yes it sounds like WLD, did she find any stuff like that described in the article? How does she remove toe Erika, does she rasp the front wall thin, this would weaken it and make it prone to splitting and cracking? Yes a long toe increases those forces and so does having the wall a touch longer on each side of the crack.
You know I would be interested in photos of the feet, if possible. Take them with the camera as close to the ground as possible with the horse standing square on a hard flat surface. Include the pastern and a bit of cannon. Shoot from each side and in front and be sure the light is always behind you or use a flash.
DrO
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Member:
Vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 12:01 pm:
Some interesting information can be found at www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_MoreTopics.html
However, my current farrier recommends the Clean Trax. He has studied and applied equine podiatry techniques for the past 7 years, in addition to 25 years of farrier experience. Clean Trax does not have carcinogenic properties and does not kill parts of the foot -- just the stuff invading it. It can be bought on-line through the equine podiatrist K.C. LaFierre. You can find his web site by doing a search for Clean Trax.
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Member:
Vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 12:09 pm:
WHOOPS---that is K.C. LaPierre and his address is available through the above site.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 4:20 pm:
I will try to get pictures posted soon, Dr. O. I am still having trouble getting photos resized, and then finding them again and getting them into programs that I can post from!!! One out of ten tries, I usually make it.
I will try to get a photo very soon, and another after the trim/treatment on the 26th.
As for the toe, no, she does not rasp the front wall. Just enough to kind of round the edge. She does do the toes much shorter than my farrier ever did. But the foot seems to grow fast, maybe I need closer appointments.
The horse has never been lame at all, but the crack just doesn't seem to grow out. At first there was some question about a "keratosis" (hope that was the word) but she said those are quite rare, and unlikely in this case.
I told her your recommendation to remove the wall over the affected tissue. She sounded very reluctant to do much removal, I think because she knows how muddy everything is around here. I suppose that would involve extremely good hygiene for a good while...?
Vicky, thanks for the suggested links. I am familiar with them through my barefoot trimmer. (Do I still call her a farrier?) The "barefoot horse" is excellent.
Erika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2006 - 4:26 pm:
Oh, by the way, the crack started about a year ago while my regular farrier was trimming her. In my opinion he was leaving the feet way too long. They began to chip and crack, then his solution was to put shoes with clips on her. Crack still didn't fix, and I thought shoes on a healthy two year old that stands on grass all day was ridiculous, so I called the barefoot expert.
Both parents have excellent hoof quality, and her other feet are fine.
I'll get on those photos ASAP.
thanks,
ERika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 8, 2006 - 10:51 am:
Huh (?), if WLD is the problem the wetter the conditions the more important it is to remove undermined and defective horn: it is the moisture being trapped in these areas that perpetuate the infection. We are not talking about exposing sensitive tissue, just removing defective undermined horn that is not supporting anything anymore.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 8, 2006 - 1:26 pm:
I agree exactly. I will print out the article and this thread to show her. She is pretty open minded and researches a lot so I think she will probably agree.
Does horn removal mean stall rest? Can I ride or walk her with an easyboot? Or can she safely be turned out with daily cleaning?
Thanks,
Erika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 12:08 pm:
Okay, I finally got the camera to work. Here are pictures of the cracked foot. Barefoot trimmer is coming Tuesday to trim/treat. It has been about six weeks since Cleo's last trim. When I picked out her hoof, I didn't detect any difference in texture in the white line area near the crack. It has, however gotten bigger lately.
Thanks for taking a look. I will send after pix when the trim and treatment are done.
 
 
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 12:12 pm:
General comments about the hoof and trim are welcome, too!
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 3:12 pm:
Erika,
I battle this for 2 years with my horse. Just as it looked like it wasn't getting worse and was growing out it would crack again.
I changed farriers. The new farrier took off a lot of heel and balanced the foot. With daily treatment it cleared up pretty quickly.
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Member:
Scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 5:28 pm:
Hi Erika, I have become a foot fanatic because of my gelding, but far from an expert. From the pics it looks like the heel is to tall and the toe too long, so just a guess the excess pressure on the toe area, from the tall heel is making it split. It almost looks like where the split stops, is actually about where the hoof should be anyway. So as Linda said you need to get that foot balanced. I am sure Dr.O. can give you advice on what to tell your farrier. Good Luck
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 - 2:00 pm:
Thanks, I realize the foot is way too long, as the trimmer is due here on Tuesday. This horse grows hoof fast, too. I don't think the length is the predominant cause though, because it has a continuation of the crack above the part you can see in the photos. I think it just chipped off at the bottom from riding.
This is the horse that had strangles this winter at the trainer, too. Lots of lines in the hoof--I assume those are from the fever? I don't believe she has any laminitic tendencies.
Thanks all.
Erika
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 1:42 pm:
Erika,
The toe is cracking because the foot is extremely flared and the white line is stretched. A stretched white line is painful. It would like pulling your fingernail away from your finger. That is what's happening every time the horse takes a step. See the picture below, the foot needs to be trimmed back to the red line I've drawn, which is to the edge of the sole.
If you've got a barefoot trimmer coming, he/she should know to do this to the foot. The barefoot trimmer will be able to remove all of that flare, and then do a mustang roll all the way around the foot, and that will prevent the crack from growing any more, allow it to grow out. The mustang roll will also encourage the wall to grow down straight, and tighten up the white line. 
Nicole
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Member:
Scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 2:25 pm:
Nicole, if she was to have that trimmed away in one trimming wouldn't the horse be sore? I know I am rehabbing my geldings hoof, but doing it over many trims, it is taking shape and the white line is tightening. He has shoes on and still a little sore for a few days. I tend to agree with your red line and maybe this horse wouldn't be sore. I am having my gelding trimmed every 5 weeks and hope to be barefoot by Oct.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 3:01 pm:
I will show your "red lined white line" to the farrier.
If you all look at the top of the post, I am really trying to get to the original cause of the crack. I think that being overdue for trimming contributes to the continuation, but the farrier believes there is an underlying cause.
This is the second farrier to work on this crack. Shoes with clips didn't stabilize it enough to grow it out.
It is our belief that there is some sort of pathogen causing it. But yes, I agree with all of you that the feet are definitely overdue for a trim.
I will post pictures after the trim so we can discuss the (hopeful) improvement.
Thanks all,
Erika
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 7:59 pm:
Hello Erika,
Like Diane E.; I have really been soaking my head in this barefoot stuff and looking at lots of feet.
I know cameras can put a 2 dimensional quality on photos and when it is digital and you get to make the photographs smaller things can get out of proportion ???  .
However, looking at what you have posted, I would tend to think that there may be some false sole build-up making the hoof capsule long and causing the flaring/cracking in the toe region. I am also looking at the collateral grooves in the frog apex region and they seem to be non existent.
Does your mare have some concavity in her sole or is it flat? The apex at the frog should be the deepest part.
Susan B.
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 11:59 pm:
Diane,
Hmm, good question, I think it would depend on the horse, how much the farrier trims the sole, and what part of the foot is currently making active contact with the ground. In any case though, if the wall is not trimmed back, the foot will not get better; the flare and the crack will continue and not grow out. From the pictures, I think the sole is bearing the most weight, so if that's the case, backing up the wall to the edge of the sole shouldn't make the horse sore. Then, once the wall grows back in with a tight white line and the sole will eventually become concave.
Erika, can you get a picture of your horse's foot that looks like this picture?
That will tell us how concave the sole is now, and what parts have active contact with the ground.
I agree with Susan that there might be some false sole. But proceed slowly when trimming the sole, because taking off too much can really make the horse sore.
I have been trimming my horse's feet since the first of April. My mare had the same problem with flares, although not quite as bad, and as of now, they've completely grown out. I trim every three to four weeks. If I wait any longer, the feet start flaring.
I just love this topic! I have been reading anything and everything I can get my hands on for the last seven months, and love trimming my horse's feet.
Nicole
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 7:08 am:
Erika is there a slight defect in the wall that runs from the crack all the way up to the coronet?
It looks like a small groove. I agree with the notion that the foot appears a bit long and the toe/quarter junction flared. Since this is the end of the trimming cycle, perhaps more frequent trimming with the suggestions by Nicole above given serious consideration. Of course if there still remains evidence of WLD it needs continued treatment.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 8:58 am:
I will go take more photos and check out the questions you've proposed about the groove, sole concavity, etc.
Busy day, will repost soon as I can get to it.
One more question for you, Susan, you mention the long hoof capsule...is it possible that part of that is her breeding? Cleo is half American Saddlebred. Most Saddlebreds I've seen do have a longer hoof capsule--or is that simply the way they are often shod? I don't know any but the "country pleasure" types, which are supposed to be shod like any other horse, and a couple of them that foxhunt, but still rather long capsule.
Thanks, new info coming soon to a posting near you...!
Erika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 4:05 pm:
Okay, new photos--of course battery died after these two!!
Best I can do for now:
Hopefully you can see better now.
I will describe briefly in case the pictures aren't clear.
Dr. O, she does not have a dent extending upward that I can see (the speckles are fly spray).
Her hoof is concave, with good bars and fairly deep clefts by the frog.
I am embarrassed that her hoof is so long. I guess it grew faster than usual for her six week trim.
I must admit to riding less, too, due to heat/bugs.
I am hoping that the farrier will teach me how to do a little rasping myself to keep her shorter between professional visits.
Again, the underlying issue is whether or not there is an infection that started the whole thing. We will be treating with Clean Trax, and a good trim. Will repost after to see results.
Thanks,
Erika
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 4:20 pm:
Hello Erika,
Take your time if you are busy. In answer to your question, I couldn't possibly answer correctly, but may be able to speculate (WAG)  .
I have a "Quarterhorse" with flat tires so to speak but...I have seen them with the upright hooves or box style type. I don't know if this is a product of breeding, ground environment, exercise, diet or a farriers particular style of trimming and shoeing. Or all of the above???
Dr.O makes a good suggestion about tracing the crack all the way to the hairline or coronet and see if there is something there that is causing the hoof to grow this way.
Did you or did you not have the shoes put on with clips to help stabilize the problem? If so, for how long were they on and were you dealing with wet and muddy conditions at the same time? This may or may not have anything to do with what you are seeing now.
I don't mean to confuse you, but you may need to have some X-Rays taken to see exactly where her coffin bone is and how deep her sole is to show the farrier if she is unsure as to how much sole to remove. At any rate do this gradually.
If it is thrush or some other fungal infection, it will need to be treated as well as removing flaring hoof wall that isn't supporting your girl.
Have to go, but keep talking and asking
Susan B.
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 6:57 pm:
Hi Erika,
Thanks for the pictures. I would definitely get that wall trimmed back to the sole. It also looks like alot of heel can be taken off too.
For WLD, I hear CleanTrax over and over again as the thing to use.
Another thing, your most recent pictures show all of the frog, and it looks narrow. You might look into soaking in a borax solution, to get rid of any infections in the frog and allow it to fill out.
Good luck with the farrier tomorrow. I look forward to hearing how it went, and seeing pictures of the feet after the trim.
Nicole
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 7:07 pm:
https://www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_Flares.html
this is a great link
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 9:06 am:
This is also a very interesting point of view.
THE END OF WHITE LINE DISEASE (UPDATED 5-5-05) Pete Ramey
Copyright 2005
First of all “white line disease” is a misnomer. It is not a disease at all. It does seem to be an epidemic, though, so teaching farriers to deal with it has become my top concern. The telltale signs are stretched white lines and deep grooves filled with rotting material, where healthy hoof walls and white lines should be; flares that won’t grow out, hooves that won’t hold a shoe, soles that remain flat in spite of the most diligent care, and recurring abscesses. This list goes on. The bottom line is that the hoof wall becomes detached from the lamina and it seems impossible to most professionals to do anything about it.
In the past, a broad spectrum of bacteria, fungi, viruses, yeasts, etc. were blamed. Michael Wildenstein of Cornell University recently published a wonderful study in Hoofcare and Lameness magazine and the American Farriers Journal that identified fungal infection as the culprit on the leading edge of the destruction, with all of the other pathogens following behind. If the problems are all coming from fungal invasion, we should be able to open up the damaged areas, treat with an anti-fungal product, and have no more problems; right? Farriers and horse owners everywhere are finding out this is not the case, as hooves continue to fall apart before their eyes.
Is fungus really the problem? Certainly it is a part of the problem. The reason this is on everyone’s mind right now is that the eastern U.S. has recently had very wet weather, following a four year long dry spell. The fungi are having a field day with our horses’ hooves, skin and lungs. As awareness has increased, horse owners and farriers in dry environments are realizing they have been plagued with it for years as well. But, I have found that “white line disease” can be conquered with a three part attack of 1) making adjustments to the environment, 2) making adjustments to the diet, and 3) competent natural hoof care. If you choose to ignore any of the three components, your results will probably be incomplete or downright unsuccessful, but using the three together, the separation rarely stands a chance.
Horse hooves are highly adaptable. In nature, horses living in arid, high desert regions develop very short, deeply concaved hooves that resist chipping and excessive wear very well. Their rugged durability mirrors the terrain they move on every day. A wild horse living in a soft, wet environment has a very different hoof form. The hooves have slightly flatter soles, and a more flared form that can chip and break away in the soft, wet ground where the wearing of hoof horn is impossible. The key things that these two hoof forms have in common, is that the bone column remains correct in both, and the hoof can do its job in its relative terrain. I may stand alone here, but it is my firm opinion that the very thing that allows hooves in a wet environment to flare and chip, rather than severely overgrowing and setting up a very dangerous situation for the horse, is the very fungal invasion and wall separation we are trying to fight. In other words, the separation is a defense mechanism. Am I nuts? Just use your head.
Can you imagine what would happen without this separation and flaring? Picture a wild horse herd, living its twenty mile per day nomadic lifestyle, foraging over the sparse rangelands. Now if the herd crosses over a ridge and finds a lush fertile valley, with a soft wet river bottom covered with lush green grass, what do you think they will do? Knowing they are just horses, I’d say they would stay right there until they ate every bite, or a predator ran them off.
Immediately, their hooves will overgrow. The rapid growth and thick calloused horn will not be able to wear at all standing around grazing on the soft ground. If nature had not built in a defense system for this situation, that would be the end of the whole herd. The hooves would grow very tall; forcing the bone columns into very unnatural positions, and lift the horses onto “stilts”. The horses would undoubtedly break their legs, and there would be no way for the hooves to recover and remove the excess horn.
Fortunately, the horses have been well prepared for dramatic change to environment. Like many of nature’s ways, it’s not pretty, but it works. The hoof walls begin to separate from the horses’ coffin bones. As the hoof walls flare away, fungi find a perfect environment in the separations and splits and begin to feed on the hoof walls. This further weakens the hooves, and they break away in chunks. Is this bad news for the horse? Not necessarily, because all of this “destruction” is saving their lives. There will be no unnatural hoof wall length to twist their joints into damaging positions, rob P3 of its natural support by lifting the sole off the ground, or disrupt their ability to move. As soon as they get back to their nomadic lifestyle the flared, weakened wall will finish breaking away, and healthy horn can replace it.
Recent research from Michigan State University (Bowker) shows that the dermal laminae in domestic horses go through startling changes where flares are present. They actually become forked, and then the fork spreads back to the base until the lamina has divided into two weaker ones. This is the body's reaction to stress and an attempt to "hang on" to the flared walls. In contrast, flared wild hooves that come to the University don't show this division. In other words, in spite of the fact that the wild horses are moving twenty miles a day on very rocky terrain, the hooves are not stressed. Why? Only in domestication do we try to force flared walls into a support role. In the wild, a flared wall is moved out of an active support role, and the body makes no attempt to hold onto it.
We recently found wild horse hooves in the Great Basin of northern California. The horse was killed in a cattle grate. She was mature and had beautiful hooves, but some flaring was present after a winter in the snow. She has approximately 410 laminae per hoof, opposed to the "normal" 550-600 we see in domestic hooves (not under natural care). In spite of the fact she had lived most of her life on a solid bed of baseball sized lava rocks, her feet had been subject to far less stress than her domestic brothers standing in soft pastures!!!
The flaring she had was simply the natural way getting rid of the excess growth she had during the snowy months. This may seem like a bizarre concept to you at first, but I’ve come to view founder, flaring, and even fungal infection as necessary and healthy adaptations the hooves can make, and we just let them run away to extremes in domestic horses.
ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS
So if wall separation is natural and necessary in soft, rich, wet environments, why do natural hoof care practitioners working in wet regions use the high desert hoof as their model? Because people like to ride their horses on firm, rocky footing, and “tricking” the domestic hoof into adapting to a closer facsimile to the high desert feral hoof is essential for barefoot riding on such terrain. It is also essential for restoring a hoof with a severe wall separation to something that can be shod, so even if you have no interest in riding barefoot or in hoof boots, you can find help here. Fungi and bacteria have a hard time invading tight, healthy hooves, so the closer we can maintain the hooves to imitate the desert feral hoof the safer the horse is from opportunistic pathogens.
The movement towards 24 hour turnout can been overdone and improperly used, I think. The truth is that wetness, lush grass and soft ground are our hooves’ fiercest enemies and the harm done to them by standing for days on end in the rain can overshadow the good done to the body by 24 hour turnout. A better plan during wet times (or perhaps anytime if the only pasture available has soft ground) is a compromise. Do everything you can to dry up the horse’s terrain, allow as much exercise as possible, and bring the horse in for “drying out” periods.
I see amazing results for horses when owners put a four inch bed of pea gravel (literally the size of a pea or slightly larger) in their stalls and small paddocks. It actually is very easy to keep clean (as long as you keep on top of it) and is comfortable bedding. It dries out and toughens hooves like nothing else. Another great wet weather option is to provide a dirt paddock that is scraped often with a tractor. The hooves will tamp it into a concrete-like surface if the manure is routinely removed, and soon after it stops raining, the hooves will be dry. This is also a wonderful alternative when dew is soaking the grass and causing the hooves to be wet all night.
If you can provide a combination of both options for your horses, you will watch as most of your problems melt away. Everyone’s situation and capabilities will vary, but the bottom line is that if we want to stop nature from telling the hooves it is desirable to flare and be infected by fungi, we must dry up their situation as much as possible, keep their hooves from becoming too long and get them living on rougher terrain.
DIET
No human was intended to eat cream filled chocolate éclairs. Ever. Some human’s bodies forgive insult better than others, though. I could probably eat ten of them a day without adverse effects, because the horses in my care ensure that I get more than my share of exercise. If my dad ate three of them a day, he would probably blow up like a balloon and notice adverse effects on his health immediately. If his dad ate even one of them, it would most likely kill him on the spot.
Our horses are in the same situation with the rich feeds we were taught to give them. Some get along okay, especially if they are young, active, and don’t have a specific problem in the body that causes them to have trouble processing sugars. In the end, though, it all eventually catches up with them. Lush, fertilized green grass, legumes, fruits, acorns, grains and molasses are all poisoning our horses every day. Our recent wet weather has caused a dramatically increased nutritional value and yield to our pastures. While most hoof care providers realize the importance of eliminating these things from the diet of a foundered horse, few realize how many “little” problems they are causing, like white line disease.
One of the first things to happen on the onset of laminitis is an increase in MMP production. (Pollitt) MMP’s are enzymes that naturally help to remodel the hoof to horse attachments and during even very mild laminitis can kick into overdrive and attack the membrane (basement membrane) surrounding the live corium (quick). The result is a separation of the hoof wall from the laminae. This initial separation occurs at the basement membrane (a layer of proteins) between the live dermal and the epidermal basal cells. The dead or damaged basement membrane is the entry point where the fungi usually establish themselves in the hoof. Pollitt has established that this damage occurs first in even the mildest of laminitis episodes. Even if the horse is not in the typical severe pain associated with laminitis (that we can notice), the rich diet has been at work, destroying the hoof wall’s attachment. (Read "Laminitis Update" for a much deeper look into how the diet effects white line integrity)
I am going alone out onto a limb here, but I think this is, too, is a defense mechanism. Horses have been in domestication for a short time relative to their time on earth. Their bodies think they are wild, free roaming, and have just stumbled into an oasis. The only logical way for the hoof walls to react is to attempt to separate themselves from the horse to avoid the dangers of excessive length and preserve P3 support by the ground. The resulting dead tissue of the basement membrane is an ideal entry point for fungal infection to spread the damage. If a horse is not in pain from inflammation of the supercorium (laminitis), yet the hoof walls continually separate from the laminae, it is probably doing precisely what the rich feed it is receiving is telling it to do. To reverse this destruction, simply treat the horse as if it were suffering from a classic founder episode, and restrict the diet to free choice grass hay, salt block, mineral block and water. Better yet, feed horses that way and PREVENT founder and white line disease.
Don’t ignore this step. It is at the root of every “hard case” I have ever seen. Most people supplement their non-working horses out of fear they will lose weight. If you showed me a human Olympic athlete and I pointed out that I could see his ribs and recommended that he start spending more time on the couch and that he eat ten crème filled chocolate éclairs per day until he was healthier, you would laugh at my ignorance. So why do so few people see the same thing where their horses are concerned? The same advice makes perfect sense to people when talking about a horse! An increase in feed without an increase in exercise can only add unwanted fat to the horse. If you want your horse to gain weight that is actually beneficial, increase his exercise while providing adequate nutrition, just as you would for the human athlete. Believe it or not, free choice mixed grass hay alone, does this very well for a shockingly high percentage of horses.
HOOF CARE
Now for the part you’ve been waiting for; the trimming. I put it last because it is the least important of the three steps, but like the other two, can’t be ignored. The rise of white line disease has driven thousands of horse owners and farriers to natural hoof care. The more a farrier tries to patch or cover up the damage, the wetter and darker the environment becomes for the fungi, and they just get happier and more aggressive. Eventually there is no way to attach a shoe. The hooves must be bare to fix the situation. The flared walls and weak, separated lamina cannot be asked to carry the weight of the horse! Active wall support in this situation can only spread the damage and cause excruciating pain for the horse.
The trimming is simple, with nothing more being done to the errant hoof walls than the basic trimming taught in my book. Particular attention is paid to the aggressive removal of wall flare in the lower 1/3 of the hoof capsule, while the sole is pretty much left alone. (Don’t try to learn to trim from this article, please. I wrote a detailed book that teaches natural trimming step by step.) A very large bevel or mustang roll must me applied to the entire outer wall to keep the wall from tattering further, and it must be diligently maintained. It is very important that you do maintenance trims BEFORE the hooves flare again. Remember that when hooves get too long they are SUPPOSED to flare, and this allows further invasion by fungi and a continual spreading of the damage as fast as the horse can grow new hoof wall.
Also, it is very common for hooves with a large amount of flaring to not even have a true white line. When the hooves (and thus the epidermal laminae) mechanically separate from P3. The inner part of the white line produced at the distal border of P3 is often "lost" in the unorganized material of the lamellar wedge. (more detailed discussion of this in my article "Breakover") The result is that rather than looking at the complete white line at ground level, you will only see the epidermal laminae. Since you only have half of the "fingers" present and resulting "holes", this is of course a very easy target for fungi, as well. Again, grow in a well connected hoof wall and the resulting solid white line will be almost impervious to infection.
It may come as a surprise, but the real crux of dealing with white line separation from a trimming standpoint has nothing at all to do with the treatment of the separating hoof walls. The real problem will almost always be in the back of the foot! In every single case of severe white line disease I have seen, the horses have been landing on their toes, in spite of the fact that they usually have no wall support there. A horse is supposed to land flat or slightly heel first at the walk, and heel first at the trot or canter. This is necessary for almost all of the shock absorbing systems to work properly. I see very few domestic horses that have not been under competent natural care that can do this, and it is the reason for most joint problems, wall separation, navicular problems……The list goes on. It translates to the rider as short, choppy stride, stumbling, unwillingness to trot……The list goes on.
When a horse is tender on rocks, most people blame the sole. The truth is, if no one has been trimming away at it the sole almost never tender. It was designed to bear the horse on rocky terrain and does this very well. (Notable exceptions are when subsolar abscesses are present and during laminitis, when the sole’s corium is suffering the exact same problems as the lamina. Jackson) The true culprit behind most tenderfootedness is the frog and the underlying digital cushion. Watch a horse striding along on grass and onto gravel. If the gravel hurts her, she will probably shorten stride, rise onto her toes, lean her head low and forward, effectively relieving all pressure on the back of the foot and transferring all of her weight to the sole of front of the foot. Time after time, people watch this movement and wrongly blame the soles. (I used to as well, so you’re not alone.)
When a horse is forced to move this way by pain at the back of the foot, no matter how well the hoof appears to be set up mechanically, the coffin bone is standing on its pointed tip and continually drives lower and lower into the hoof capsule, destroying the hoof’s attachment and perpetuating white line problems. Achieving a heel first landing is the most important thing a farrier can do for a horse.
A vast majority of domestic horses are incapable of using their frogs and digital cushions as nature intended. People are too programmed to think of hooves only when the horse is standing square on concrete. Although the frog is slightly passive to the heels on wild hooves and properly trimmed domestic hooves, the frog bears quite a load on the varied terrain horses roam and work on. Most domestic horses show a pain response when we pick their frogs and gentle pressure across the frogs with hoof testers can bring them to their knees. There is no possible way the horse can bear impact to the frogs on rocky ground and a horse in this condition will land toe first with a shortened stride on varied terrain no matter how well the hooves appear to be set up when the horse is standing or moving out on flat ground. How did this happen? It is from a lack of use. The soft ground most horses live on is not natural for them, and can’t stimulate the frog properly. The underlying digital cushion loses its ability to receive impact and the resulting soft, weak frogs are easily infected by fungus and bacteria. Regardless of terrain, this also happens if the heel walls are allowed to grow long enough to overprotect the frogs. Shoes, pads, and continued wetness from a lack of routine hoof picking are particularly important contributors to the problem. The more people try to protect the sensitive frogs, the worse the problem eventually becomes.
How do we reverse this problem? Put the frogs and digital cushions back to work. Keep the heels as low as possible without invading live sole. Avoid trimming the height of the frog; let it pack into dense calloused material instead. In my book I recommend trimming the heel height to just above the sole, but if the frogs are protruding and are very sensitive, you will need to lower the heels only to the height of the frogs to allow the horse to comfortably begin using them. Passive ground contact will cause the digital cushions to strengthen and move into a higher position and the frog will pack into calloused material. This causes the frog height to quickly recede into a more natural position and you should follow it religiously with the heel height until you reach a level 1/16 inch higher than the live sole. Treat any fungal infections that are present. Do everything you can to dry up the situation for the horse. Exercise often on terrain the horse is comfortable enough to land in heel first. Ride in hoof boots when terrain demands force a toe first landing or cause sensitivity (I am finding the new Boa boots to be wonderful in most situations). This is easy stuff. Recognizing the true problem is most of the battle. Achieving a heel first landing at the trot will make most problems with gait, joints, back, and hoof lameness melt away and should be the top priority in hoof trimming and conditioning. It will also stop the pattern of continued mechanical separation caused by the toe first landing. (Read "Digging for the Truth about Navicular SynDrOme" for more on the back of the foot)
I guess I can’t write an article on white line disease without the mention of anti fungal treatments. Be sure that any treatment you use does not destroy live tissue on a cellular level. You may be contributing to the problem by creating dead tissue for pathogens to feed on. Notable antifungal treatments that do not damage live tissue are Clean Trax and 50% vinegar/water solutions I have in the past, and sometimes still do put customers on a picking and treating or soaking regiment. I am unsure at this time how much it contributes to my success with dealing with these problems. I can tell you for sure, that if you chemically treat the symptoms without dealing with the real problems, anti fungal treatment will appear pretty ineffective, but on the other hand I have seen diligent treatment be a part of countless successful rehabilitations and have customers who swear by each of the half dozen different treatment programs I have experimented with. I also have fixed hundreds of severe white line problems with no chemical treatment going on at all, so you tell me.
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 9:51 am:
Thanks Katrina,
Fantastic article. These are the same principles my farrier has been trying to get into my head.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 10:47 am:
Great stuff, Katrina, with some interesting theories.
My family has been teasing me because they think I am always on the computer researching horse stuff!
My farrier had an emergency and will be coming tomorrow instead of today. Can't wait to run all this by her.
First, however, I pledge to take the good Dr. O's advice, since he is the one who went to vet school.
But there is a lot of really good info on the sites that are listed here. Like anything else, we do the best we can with the info we get.
Thanks,
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 11:11 am:
If this is the same Pete Ramey that often addresses the lack of support of many of the alternative therapy methods he is a veterinarian and puts forward sound principles most of which we have been pushing for years though I like his specific recommendations. Unlike the other veterinarians he describes, I have never had trouble treating white line disease but of course sensible trimming practices and hoof care have always been a part of any treatment. I have never had to result to the type surfaces he recommends but they seem logical if only because of the drying effect they would have.
We have long talked on these boards about the adverse effects of soft wet footing on the general quality of hooves and the idea of putting horses up on well drained rocky surface sounds sensible to me. The trimming he describes has many of the same qualities of the 4 point natural trim recommended in the Hoof Care section, particularly getting the horse off his toe with a short foot with good heel contact.
DrO
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 11:33 am:
Yes it is the same Pete Ramey, and your article is just as good Dr O. Just wanted to share
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 12:00 pm:
Don't know if this is the same guy you are thinking of Dr. O. Looking on his website - he doesn't list himself as a veterinarian anywhere.
https://www.hoofrehab.com/index.htm
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 - 11:59 am:
I think Linda is right: this is not the same Ramey but I would not let that take away from his thoughts which are mostly consistent with our recommendations on horse and hoof care. I disagree with the points about the lack of need for antimicrobial therapy of a true white line case but find little to argue with on the rest of it. I do see concussive bruising of the sole and horses with sensitive soles but many horses that are tender to hard ground and rocks do have frog problems.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 - 7:28 pm:
Here are the "after" photos. I still feel that more should have been removed, but after polite discussion, this was what she recommended.
We soaked in Clean Trax (fun keeping a three year old immobile through a trim, 45 min. soak, then hour long baggy wrap , but we did it.)
The trimmer showed me how to rasp for maintenance to keep that to from causing torque.
Dr. O, nothing I could say would convince her to remove any more wall. She said the horse would be sore if she did. I said I could live with a few days of bute to get through it, but I guess she did what she was willing to do.
Any comments are welcome.
Erika
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 - 8:53 pm:
There is an amazing difference between the before and after pictures, and I do think the trimmer did a good job. You're right, though, alot more could have been taken off.
Take a look at this picture. It doesn't look like the frog is even touching the ground, because the heels look too long.
Also, it looks like the wall at the quarters is still real long, way higher than the sole (green arrows). That will continue to flare if it is not rasped back to the edge of the sole. If you feel comfortable, you can take your rasp, and rasp the wall at a 45 degree angle to the sole.
It also looks like you can back the toe up a little more, and take some pressure off the crack. While the trimmer did take the alot of the flared wall off, it looks like the wall at the crack is still making active contact with the ground, thus the crack cannot grow out. Again, if you feel comfortable, rasp on the toe a little.
I hope this helps. Like I said, I have been floating up to my eyeballs in material on this topic, and have been doing my own trimmings too. If you'd like to see pictures of my horse's feet, before and after barefoot trimming, let me know, I'd be happy to share.
Nicole
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 7:56 am:
I agree with Nicole that more should have been removed. But perhaps the farrier detected a very thin sole?
Left as is there will be continued flaring of the walls due to their length and this flaring contributes to the crack. But you have a rasp and so can daily just give the feet a few strokes on the bottom all over to gradually reduce the length of the walls while maintaining balance. By going slow we will gradually toughen the sole. A description of rasping the foot is given at Care for Horses » Hoof Care » Trimming and Preparing the Feet for Shoes. One point however not explained there is that as you rasp the bottom of the foot you will develop a sharp edge on the margin of the wall. The edges of the wall should be kept rolled by rasping to keep the edges of the wall from chipping.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 8:22 am:
May seem like a stupid question, but do I rasp both front feet each time? All four? Or just keep the one with the crack shorter? My guess is both fronts.
Thanks for the advice. I will do the best I can and let you know how things go.
Erika
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 9:56 am:
Erika,
My farrier was the same way. I had to make an appointment with my vet to come to the farrier appointment so he could explain how the horse should be trimmed. He was emphatic that a long under-run heel does the horse no good. And a long toe puts the weight bearing on the wrong part of the foot.
The crack didn't heel until the trim was correct.
The farrier was good for 3 trims and then went back to his old ways.
Does your horse walk heel first after this trim?
Our horses have never been so comfortable since we switched to a "barefoot" farrier. Our mini stallion had so much heel and toe I was afraid he would founder. No matter how much I ask the old farrier to take off the heel and toe, the pony still looked like he was wearing high heels afterwards. The new farrier says it will take 3-5 trim to get his feet to where they should be. He said he had never taken so much foot off a pony. And he is taking off the heel and toe gradually so he doesn't have tendon problems.
We even stopped having to use ankle boots behind on our Oldenberg. For the first time he no longer hits himself.
Any chance you can find a different farrier? You shouldn't have to explain these things to a farrier that is calling himself/herself a "barefoot" farrier. These are the basic principles of that type of trimming.
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 11:48 am:
That is quite a difference from "Before and After".
I tend to agree that more could come down or off, but at the expense of making your mare sore, I think your farrier made the right choice in being cautious and used the sole as a guide in trimming.
You wouldn't want to have your mare heel sore, which would cause her to walk on her toes, which would make the rip in the toe worse etc.etc.
As far as rasping is concerned, you would also have to do the other foot to keep her balanced. You can do the hinds another time in between the trim cycle.
I think I will soon be part of the crowd, who will have to learn how to rasp and mustang roll my geldings feet  .
Good Luck.
Susan B.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 12:57 pm:
Linda, keep in mind that we are all going by what I say, as well as some pictures that may not be totally clear. You haven't had the opportunity to hear what the trimmer said.
Also, please keep in mind that this problem didn't start under her care.
This woman seems to be very educated on the proper trim, and I have learned a lot from her. She often brings me printouts by many of the sources sited here that pertain to my horses' conditions.
Overall, all of my horses' feet are in much better shape since she's been trimming, including my thirty-three year old that used to go lame the minute he lost a shoe. (now happily and healthily barefoot). So I am reluctant to insist too much on my own opinion. She said she had reasons for leaving the foot as she did.
Although I would have liked to have seen more come off,I figure I will go with her expertise for now and see if we get some improvement.
She was also generous enough to give me a hands-on lesson in rasping so that it doesn't get out of hand before the next trim.
Yes, I wish I was educated enough to do my own trims, too, Susan. I will be out there with rasp in hand, learning little by little so that someday when I am too old to bend over, I will at least know how it should be done!
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 - 3:49 pm:
Erika,
Time will tell. If the horse is traveling correctly and the crack heals up, you know you are on the right track.
I do sympathize with you because my horse has had the same problems. I have spent years listening to different opinions and learning what works for him.
If she feels that she can't do more per trim, perhaps you can trim more often.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 9:57 am:
Good news, I have rasped a little every day (mostly my hands, until I got smart and put on gloves!) I think I have gradually gotten the hoof a bit shorter to where the wall is not going to continue to flare.
Hoof looks MUCH better and the crack is nearly gone.
I will post pictures as soon as the heat breaks enough to stand in the sun for good light.
Thanks to all of you for you great advice! I am learning so much from you. I NEVER thought I would ever attempt to do anything other than pick out a hoof!
Gratefully,
Erika
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 10:11 am:
Erika,
Good for you! When I first started rasping and using a hoof knife I thought I would die. Sweat poured off me. I also rasp and cut myself quite a bit. It gave me a new respect for farriers and the abuse their body goes through.
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 6:14 pm:
Erika,
Way to go! I, too, have done quite a bit of rasping on my hands. I learned the hard way to wear gloves, and arm bracers when using a hoof knife. :0)
Nicole
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 6:52 am:
Pictures, Erika, we want pictures! Do you have a wood handle for your rasp? This will help greatly but I still have a cheap pair of brown cotton work gloves with the finger tips but out so I can still feel the sole. Just catch one stitch of a good pair of leather gloves in the rasp and it is a matter of time before they are shot.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 2:07 pm:
 
 
I know, I know, need to work on those mustang rolls! Still trying to get the feel of the rasp without taking part of my hand off...
It is much more apparent in the photos that my "rolls" are more like bevals. Will round more later.
I do think the feet look better, though. She is landing heel first. A lot of the white line is grayish brown and woody looking. Is that more of the WLD, or is it indicative of past laminitis? Gee, I sure hope I don't have another one prone to that!! (Cleo had strangles in Dec., perhaps left over from fever?)
I do see more flare above to be grown out, but I am afraid to take too much off with my amateur status.
Comments and suggestions are welcome!
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 6:07 pm:
Owww..the one thing I would not have done Erika is "roll" then totally remove the wall in the quarters and heels close to the ground, just removed the flare. Do you see in the quarters and heel where you have cut back in as you approach the bottom causing the horse to be weight bearing on just the sole? This has caused the sole to be completely weight bearing, when it is the wall that should receive a significant percentage of weight. There is a very positive side however, you have done a whale of a job removing defective WL and in getting onto that flare. Yes there is a tad more flare that could be addressed but from here on out, just roll the toe and roll it to just in front of the white line. You should put a gentle rounding on these edges however so they are not sharp and then chip.
WLD tends to be yellowish and cheesy in consistency so that does not sound like it. Until the wall grows out in these parts, appx 45 days, you need to be sure that the horse does not work and should not left on hard ground. Good grass, sand, shavings should be it so we don't get bruising.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 8:18 pm:
Ooops! That's why they have professionals, isn't it. But I wonder if the pictures are actually representative of the real foot. It looks much flatter to me in the photos than it does in actuality.
To me the bars still appear higher than the sole, and I thought there might be still too much length all over. There were comments above about the heels being still too long (albeit, not from you). Aw shoot, I really thought I was doing it judiciously.
I am still confused, though, because I thought that if the wall was bearing weight it would continue to flare.
I feel bad, and I certainly hope I didn't cause his sweet girl any pain. She is out on grass pasture with run in to rubber mats and shavings, though. I will watch for signs of soreness. (My heart DrOpped when I saw that first "Oww"!)
Thanks so much for checking up on my attempts. I think I will try to roll that edge tomorrow as you say, then leave her to the pros at least for now.
Have a great time in the mountains.
Erika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Aug 4, 2006 - 9:03 pm:
Dr. O, I have been rereading everything, as well as looking at the last photos since I posted the last one.
Is it possible that it only appears that she is standing on the sole because the side and front view photos look like there is a lighter colored layer below the black outer wall?
Perhaps an explanation: I attempted to roll the edge while Cleo was standing on the foot by running the rasp along the concrete floor at a 45 degree angle to the floor. Therefore the bottom edge of the rasp didn't have teeth, leaving little bit of flat wall edge. 
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Or are you talking about the bottom surface of the hoof? In which case I have no excuse but ignorance...I did do it very gradually over the past two weeks, though. Hopefully I didn't screw up too badly if it went slowly?
Thanks again,
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 5, 2006 - 8:29 am:
Excellent drawing Erika demonstrating the important points here. I think it is clear from the view of the bottom that the horse is on the sole, but I could be wrong. Normally by just removing the flare in the quarters and heels it will grow straight. Removing that extra bit of wall at the bottom may over burden the sole. Of course is this bit of white line was diseased, this may be the fast way to address it.
The toe is a special case. In nature where horses travel long distances daily during dry weather, the toe naturally wears into a roll. In confinement the toe does not wear this way and in time becomes long, flared, and the heels low, which is why you have to address the toe differently.
Erika, though the foot will not look as attractive can you completely rasp out the crack? The tip of the crack weakens the healthy wall above. If you find disease (WLD or thrush) anywhere at the whiteline it should be a period of treatment as described in the articles on these diseases.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 5, 2006 - 9:29 am:
"Erika, though the foot will not look as attractive can you completely rasp out the crack? The tip of the crack weakens the healthy wall above."
Yes, I can as long as I understand exactly what to do. Do I notch it the way farriers do, with a horizontal rasp to the depth of the crack only at the top? Or do you mean to have me rasp the wall down in the entire front surface area?
We discussed the "woody" appearance of the white line area in several places. It is not cheesy or tarry. Do I treat the woody stuff as if it were WLD?
I don't want to make any more mistakes!
Thanks,
Erika
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 5, 2006 - 4:53 pm:
No, Erika, I wouldn't notch the tip of the crack horizontally or rasp the toe wall thinner before all the flare is removed, there is risk that the horizontal notch will direct the crack horizontally and/or that the thinner wall will flare even worse.
I prefer to stop drill bad cracks (drill a hole at the tip of the crack), but that is dangerous for the underlying sensitive tissue and not necessary here.
It takes time to develop a feeling and a good eye in judging and correcting hooves, take it easy.
I am still laughing remembering my first attempts at farriery. It was taking a full afternoon to trim the fronts, then another afternoon to trim the hinds, then one afternoon to shoe each pair of hooves. Four days to shoe a horse !
I remember the first nail I ever DrOve in a hoof took 2 full hours, after the hoof was trimmed and the shoe shaped. And I am very proficient with tools.
Last but not least, if you are serious about doing your own trims, protect your lower back! Ask your farrier to show you how to position yourself and hold the hoof correctly and wear a protective belt at least until you get the hang of it.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 5, 2006 - 6:32 pm:
Thanks for the input, Christos. I was beginning to feel like a pariah, thinking everyone in HA was whispering about my botched job!
I can appreciate your four day shoeing. This one took me two weeks! As for being serious about my own trims, I am no longer so sure...sometimes it is worth it to call in the pros. I guess I am just so eager to get this taken care of, and I need to remind myself that it will take time. I don't trust myself with a drill considering the damage to my hands from a mere rasp!!
Humbly,
Erika
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 6, 2006 - 5:22 am:
Erika, I wouldn't use a power drill on a horse. I use a hand drill to start, then only twist the bit by hand.
I use a 6mm bit for wood with a flat cutting face. I remove the centering point, though I think that it could give an indication of approaching sensitive tissue.
You do not need to drill through the full thickness of the wall to stop the crack. 3/4 the wall's thickness is enough. The inner 1/4 of the hoof wall is soft, it will not propagate the crack.
It is absolutely unnecessary to drill deeper than 7-8 mm to stop a crack from expanding, on any hoof. Make that 5mm if the tip of the crack is above mid hoof. Deduct 2mm if the horse is small, the wall looks thin or if you have any doubts. Do not attempt at all if the tip of the crack is within an inch from the coronet.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 6, 2006 - 10:13 am:
My concern with such a focal approach is that if there is infection it will still be at the untreated locations. I vote for rasping out defective tissue (the margins of the crack and abnormal WL) down to where you can see healthy white line attached firmly to the overlying wall.
Whether you do this with a notch or by rasping the wall flat really depends on how much wall needs to be removed. Start with removing as little as possible and see where it takes you. I often use a Dremel tool with a rounded burr to remove such defects.
From you description alone I am uncertain whether you are seeing normal WL on not. At its healthiest it is a off white striated line when viewed from the solar aspect. The consistency is similar to the sole. However staining may not be indication of disease, stuff from the ground, medications, past bruising with serum staining, and blood could all discolor normal WL.
DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 6, 2006 - 11:22 am:
DrO is right, my suggestion will only stop the crack, not WLD.
But I think it is obvious in the pictures of Erika's post #293 that the crack is not the full thickness of the wall (so why originating from WLD) and the hoof has a very distinct outer shell, a very hard layer some 2mm thick.
This hard shell I have only seen in two horses and it always cracked when allowed to touch the ground.
The only way I found to stop this shell from cracking was to stop drill the crack, then remove this outer shell from the lower 1/2" of the hoof by rasping.
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 6, 2006 - 11:38 am:
I think you need to address the crack first, then the other problems shown in the photos. My farrier notched a small section all the way up the crack, i had one a few months back. Without getting rid of the bacteria there will be no solid growth, tightly attached to the inner walls. it will always grow back cracked like that. Is there a smell to this crack? its probably a thrush bacteria that is causing all this. get rid of that with iodine and formaldydes and then deal with the other stuff. i'm not sure about drilling just a hole, but the notching let in the air and sun and helped get rid of it. Now its growing back tight. and smaller. I will probably be a 3 month ordeal by the looks of mine. (almost same size as in the picture)
I use a power drill to trim my horses hooves. Learned from a really cool guy Phil Morrare based in California. He has videos out to teach if anyone is interested. and my largest Back issue was solved with getting a hoof stand. They are expensive but worth it. it puts the horses hoof in a cradle. so i can be hands free to hold the power tool to trim the hoof. i only work on the front, though. and leave the back to the farrier when he comes since the front are so much more fragile and need constant updating.
After the crack is gone, dealing with any separation issues, flares etc will be easier, i think.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 6, 2006 - 12:47 pm:
Okay, Dr. O, I will rasp the crack area and post pictures every few days so I don't go overboard this time. I sure do appreciate the amount of time and consideration you have given this. Your patients are very lucky to have you in the flesh!
Christos, I promise to be more vigilant about flare in the future. I think you're probably right that flare is what caused the crack in the first place.
The area of white line in question is definitely not thrush, Jojo. It is woody textured and dry rather than tarry, and there is no smell to it. I can't help but wonder if it is from past bruising, or from her strangles and fever last winter. In the pictures it is the part that looks like dirt clinging to the hoof around the crack and at the quarters.
We treated it with the Clean Trax. I have Betadine and will apply that often when I rasp the wall.
Last question--must she be kept in a stall when the wall is removed in order to keep it clean and dry, or can she be out in her normal situation now that all the muddy areas have dried up? (Grass pasture with free access to stall w/rubber mats and shavings picked out 2x daily)
Thanks, everyone.
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Aug 7, 2006 - 10:23 am:
If it is clean and dry outside that would be fine. However because of the removal of all the wall on the weight bearing surfaces free turn out in a pasture scares me. That would have to be a might tough sole and a might soft pasture for bruising to not occur.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Aug 7, 2006 - 8:40 pm:
I am still mustering up the courage to take the wall off of the infected spot. I think I will call the trimmer and give her the chance to do it. Perhaps she will do a better job if she knows I will attempt it.
Photos to come as soon as the deed is done.
Thanks,
Erika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 2:48 pm:
Latest update photos of Cleo's feet. Trimmed yesterday. Again, I asked for more toe taken off, but she didn't want to do any more.
Trimmer seems to think the crack looks better, but I don't see a heck of a lot of difference from the first post-trim photos.
Am I weird, or did they actually look better after my own trim?
This one above was my last attempt to trim by myself. I tried to rasp away as much horn as I dared in front of the problem spot. Then I left things alone until the pro could get here. This is what we have now.
These are current. I do think the hoof itself looks to be a better shape. But I don't notice any improvement in the length of the crack.
Any comments? Bring 'em on...
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 7:36 pm:
I guess it's a little confusing, but the top picture above is from late July. The lower series is from today.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 9:42 am:
I too do not see much improvement in the crack Erika and wonder if you might not do better completely rasping it our and then treating the area with a strong antibacterial like formaldehyde while it grows out.
DrO
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 5:29 pm:
Commenting from the clueless point of view, the "Erika trim" looks a lot less disturbing.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 7:09 pm:
Yeah, I figured you'd agree that it isn't better. Now I wish I had been more aggressive when I was working on it a couple of months ago.
I will ask my vet to help me when she comes for fall shots. I'm willing to remove the wall, but I don't trust myself to know at what point to stop. I don't want to waste any more time.
Meanwhile I'll pick up a Dremel and try to do a little at a time.
Would light riding (with an Easyboot) be of any benefit to get the hoof growing faster? Or is it likely to perpetuate the crack by expanding the hoof wall?
Where does one buy formaldehyde? I haven't seen it since chemistry class!
Thanks for the follow-up.
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 8:57 am:
More aggressive on the crack, but less aggressive on the length of the walls. Formaldehyde is available in a number of thrush treatments or perhaps from your vet.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 9:14 am:
Okay, Thanks, Doc.
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Member:
Sross
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 9:43 pm:
I've found Keratex to be very helpful.
https://www.keratex.net/hoof_hardener.htm
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 11:24 am:
Erika,
Our new farrier who works in conjunction with Oakridge Equine Hospital in Edmond OK found a treatment for white line disease on accident. It's an antifungal called Xoutplus that he sprayed on very severe case of WLD after doing the appropriate paring. Within a month, the WLD had completely cleared up so in conjunction with the animal hospital they had the manufacturer make a stronger solution (non toxic and obviously safe) and have been using it on their patients with absolute success. It's called X-Out Plus and while there is a web site for its sale at xoutplus.com, it seems to be a new web site and is not very user friendly so I couldn't find exact ingredients. Either way the farrier sprayed some on fungus on Demetruis pastern and it was cleared in three days so I am using it. If you google the Equine hospital maybe one of the vets or residents can give you more information. If nothing else works you should check it out.
Take care,
Corinne
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 9:26 pm:
Thanks Sandra and Corinne, I will check those out. My vet is coming soon for fall shots and I have asked for time to discuss this with the trimmer present also.
I will post pictures and diagnosis after she comes.
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 9:58 am:
If someone finds the ingredients to Xoutplus please post it.
DrO
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 3:37 pm:
You bet Dr O. I will call the Oakridge Equine Hospital tomorrow. I am sure the ingredients are on the web site but it's too hard to navigate (they need a new webmaster) and I don't have much computer time with school so I would like to speak to a vet as I won't see the farrier for another five weeks and will be able to get some definative answers.
Will be in touch.
v/r
Corinne
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 10:54 pm:
Left a message at Oakridge to get the ingredients one of the vets will be calling me shortly.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2006 - 8:28 am:
Update on Cleo's cracked hoof:
Vet and farrier came together to look yesterday. Meanwhile, since the last pro trim, I have ridden a lot and the toe is considerably shorter (I still think she leaves it too long).
Both agreed that it looked better, but I had the vet take x-rays of the foot to see if there was any air under the wall that will continue the situation. She will get back to me soon and will send a CD of the X-rays to post for those who are interested.
The vet did not want to take off any hoof wall until she sees the x-rays. I guess the hope is that the underlying problem may have been taken care of by the Clean Trax and betadine, and that it is just taking that long to grow out.
Personally, I am not convinced that the crack is better, but it only appears to be when the toe is shorter. I can kick myself for not measuring from the coronet down to the crack from the
beginning. Will do that today, as well as take more pictures to post.
Good news is there is still no lameness at all, and it isn't getting worse. So I'll continue to be patient and see if the x-rays tell us anything further.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2006 - 8:36 am:
BTW the annoying thing is, now my Saddlebred, Sugar, has a similar crack! Aaargh! Vet said it has been a terrible year for hooves around here with the monsoons, then dry, then more lengthy rains, etc.
I'm beginning to wonder of barefoot is worth all the fuss!
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2006 - 9:05 am:
Erika, dont give up all the shod horses here are losing shoes and all have problems from the weather as well. I found a new barefoot trimmer and mine is doing great rain and all.
Katrina
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 28, 2006 - 7:34 am:
I am not sure patience is the key. I think a more aggressive address of the problem might be, see earlier posts and review the article on poor quality horn and it treatment.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 28, 2006 - 7:59 am:
Thanks, Doctor O.
I am on your side! But it is very hard to tell my own vet that I put some pictures on the net and got different advice. I told both her and the trimmer about the articles and my opinion. They both overruled me.
If I had the guts I would simply do the wall removal myself. But since I can't even do a proper trim at this point, I am afraid of laming my horse for life!
I think Dr. Turk's plan was to see if there was any air space under the wall, and only do the resection if she saw something under there. Personally, I am frustrated with the conservative approach. But I will give it the few days until I hear her diagnosis before I decide how to proceed.
In the meanwhile, I am thinking of calling my old farrier who did my shoeing (If he'll still talk to me after turning to the barefoot trimmer). Perhaps he has experience with removing the wall and would help me out.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks,
Erika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 4, 2006 - 12:25 pm:
Dr. O, here is a link (I hope) to my horse's X-rays. I still have not heard from my vet anything...been trying to track her down.
Does this add any light to what is going on under the hoof wall?
I don't see any signs of "air" under there, but I don't really know what to look for.
Thanks, once again,
Erika
https://www.vetpacs.com/ExamReview.asp?webcode=S83J16V0&Clinics={6FAA0240-29EC-4402-8F00-86158808892F}&id={900B1F52-9198-4EB9-A5CC-21C30F7ADDBD}
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 4, 2006 - 5:10 pm:
Any thoughts on the balance of the hoof, etc. would be welcome as well.
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 5, 2006 - 9:59 am:
Erika, if you will post the image here I will examine it.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 5, 2006 - 2:51 pm:
I did speak to my vet's partner, with whom she consulted. She thought everything looked fine, and said it was possibly an old gravel that worked itself down and hopefully, now is growing out.
She recommended that I wait another few weeks to see if it improves now. If it doesn't, she has a vet that does resections that I can haul to.
Thanks again,
Erika
One last try with a very complicated technique:
Yippeee! It finally worked!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Oct 6, 2006 - 8:22 am:
Very complicated? You push a button and you tell it where to find your image and what to call your image: what is complicated about that?
I don't see anything either in the radiographs above to suggest why you should be having an ongoing problem with this crack. The first image suggests proper ap balance but the last photo is obliqued slightly making balance difficult to judge.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Friday, Oct 6, 2006 - 8:30 am:
What can I say, sometimes I'm a dope when it comes to technology! With my kids off to school there is no one here to tell me how simple it is...won't tell you how many steps it took to get these up here!
Thanks for taking a look. Yes, the last one is slightly off center, but she does toe out slightly. I imagine that's the reason everything isn't perfectly lined up.
Glad to hear it doesn't appear to be a very deep rooted problem. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your following this case with me, Dr. O. You are a generous person with your very busy time! Thank you so much.
I will keep you updated as the crack grows out (hopefully!).
Erika
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Friday, Oct 6, 2006 - 10:37 am:
Erika,
Don't feel bad about now knowing technology...when everyone was telling me how to sign off of foreign computers I didn't want to say I didn't know what cookies and caches were and where to clear what out of where! They added a log off button...problem solved for me.
I know how to turn it on, type and after that it's a miracle if I get something right and I am only 32. My 60 yr old aunt just got her first computer and has been trying to send her first email to me for six months (must run in the family) I told her I would help her at Christmas.
Anyway, hopefully the crack with your horses foot will finally resolve itself. So sorry you have been having so many problems. Good luck!
Take care,
Corinne
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Member:
Juliem
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Posted on Friday, Oct 6, 2006 - 3:46 pm:
Corrinne, as long as we're "fessing up" about our lack of tech savvy..... Make sure your aunt has connected to the internet when she's trying to send you the email. I hate to say that I had to have someone tell me that! I just couldn't get that darned first email to send!
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Friday, Oct 6, 2006 - 5:40 pm:
Erika...I know you don't mind funnies so I have to respond to Julie....Julie you just made me laugh....I have an even better one though...right out of college in 96 I got Web-TV before I could afford a computer and it was costly for a new LT with no money so when it wouldn't work I was steamed with the tech I got at the help line. After 30 minutes of entering this code and that into the Keyboard to get it to connect to the TV I told him I was taking it back to the store and hung up. Then I walked around to put the darn thing back in the box and realized I never had the unit plugged in! LOL.
And I am even worse with fixing things...I am like the female Cliff Huxtable (remember on the Cosby show Clair would have to hire people to fix things behind him) one time in my first apartment I told maintenance to fix my light on the ceiling fan and I was shocked when they said lights were my responsibility once I moved in. I fumed....well how am I going to get a light bulb that big?.....LOL.....I spent three weeks at home depot looking for a huge light bulb when it was the globe covering the small light bulb I was looking at. HAHAHAHAHA. (Really you wouldn't think I was educated at times!...I just don't have an aptitude for fixing anything other than human injuries and I don't get technology related things....oh and cars while we are being totally honest)
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:38 pm:
Update on Cleo's cracked foot.
Here's a pasture picture showing that the crack is gone! Sorry, lousy photo, but I think it would hold up in court!
After rereading the entire post, and reflecting on the amount of extra trimming I've done in the past year to keep the flare away; I am willing to bet that this was never WLD to begin with, just a case of too much torque as the good Dr. O suggested it might have been.
Whatever it was, it's gone.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:39 am:
Nice job, Erika and Dr.O!
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 7:04 am:
Nice hoof Erika, good work
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 10:59 am:
Great job Erika,
DrO
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:21 pm:
Alright Erika, that gives me hope!
suz
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:08 pm:
Thanks all! And I do mean THANKS! I've received so much good info and advice here. I have learned so much, and become adept at things I never would have thought I could attempt.
What an invaluable forum and source for information! I will continue to sing the praises of this site to all who will listen.
BTW, sorry to take so long to thank all of you--computer crash...
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Member:
tuckern
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:57 pm:
Woohoo! Great job!
Nicole
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New Member:
stoney09
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 2:17 am:
My gelding has a crack in his "user" foot,RF. Inside the crack are tunnels,3, maybe 1/2",3/4" in. Farrier has been cutting a v each time she trims his feet and has me cleaning the foot and picking out the dirt and using a bird feeder syringe with Keratex. I have been doing this for a couple of weeks every other day, however have ordered Clear trax and when the farrier comes next Tues after his trim will soak with Clear Trax. We live at high elevation (2400) on the Big Island, Hawaii and are going into our really wet season. This last few months have been wetter than normally. I will take pictures and measure the hoof. He is out in a green pasture and there is no covered area to keep him dry.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 2:20 pm:
Merry Anne, If you start your own discussion instead of adding on to an old one you will get more responses.
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