This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse »
  Discussion on 4 yr old suddenly lame
Author Message
Member:
Leec

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 7:02 pm:

Hi All,

My 4 yr old QH mare became quite obviously lame on her right fore about an hour and a half after returning from a trail ride yesterday. She was fine during the ride and I noticed nothing off when I lead her to her paddock after the ride. I was on the alert for any lameness during this particular ride because on a trail ride 3 days prior, she felt 'funny' for a couple of strides while we were trotting over a patch of soggy ground. After the couple of ‘wobbly’ strides she felt fine, so I attributed it to her just trying to keep her balance in the wetter footing. However, about 3 miles later, while walking in the gravel on the side of the road just before turning into our driveway, I felt her slightly favor her left fore. Once home I poked her feet, felt for heat, looked for swelling, palpated, checked for ticks but could not find anything. I walked her to her paddock and could detect no lameness. I decided she’d perhaps picked up a stone for a few strides and it fell out on its own. She was fine the next morning and for the next 2 days I did not ride, but she was turned out in her pasture those 2 days and when watching her walk, trot and canter in the pasture, I could not see any signs of lameness. Yesterday morning I lunged her before our ride in the hopes that if there was a problem, it would show. I saw nothing to make me think she wasn’t completely sound. So, Friday during the ride the left fore was sore and yesterday following the ride the right fore was sore – or maybe both were, but the right more so??? She has remained lame from yesterday, though not as bad. Her last shoeing was 6 weeks ago. She has an old abscess that has grown out to almost the shoe in the front center on her right fore – her next shoeing will remove what’s left of the chip that’s there. We have been riding out on the trails for over 2 months. Weather permitting, we ride 2 to 4 days a week, 1.5 to 3 hours each ride – the footing and terrain varies as we are in the mountains. Hills up and down, flat areas, some trails have nice footing and others are harder and rocky. We walk the rough stuff and save the trot and canter for the more forgiving surfaces. When not being ridden, my mare is turned out in a pasture during the day that has the same varying terrain and footing as the trails we ride. However, her pasture does not have any wet areas, nor does her shelter or nighttime paddock. Her food has not changed and she was de-wormed a month ago. My vet is coming out Thursday, but I wondered if anyone might have some ideas in the meantime.
Lee C
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2006 - 9:14 pm:

Intermittent, possible shifting, lameness without any localizing signs makes guessing tough Lee. We have suggestions as to what to do until the vet gets there however, see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse.
DrO
Member:
Leec

Posted on Friday, Jul 14, 2006 - 12:03 pm:

Hi DrO
My vet examined my mare yesterday. After flexing her, using hoof testers, palpating her, lunging her and having me tack her up and ride up and down hill, her call is navicular synDrOme. We can do x-rays and nerve blocks to 'prove' it, but she feels I will be wasting my money. She presents all the textbook symptoms, as well she has smallish feet and more upright front pasterns. We are going to put bar shoes on her and try and get her sound. My vet feels that even with that she will continue to get worse and her riding life will be shortened given the type of riding I do. She feels the mare could have a fairly long riding life if she were used solely on arena footing doing flatwork, perhaps as a lesson horse (she's very well trained and quiet). It's too bad because she was awesome on the trail. I feel horrible knowing that she has probably been sore for awhile, but equally on both fronts, so I did not notice it. I thought she was just being lazy when she wanted to go slow down hills and her reason for drifting toward softer ground was because the grass has grown tall in those areas and she liked to try and grab at it...
Lee C
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 14, 2006 - 4:31 pm:

Lee, I'm so very sorry! Horses can be so very stoic, it is not your fault. Big cyber ((((Hugs)))) to you.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jul 15, 2006 - 5:05 am:

Hello Lee,
First let's be clear. Navicular SynDrOme is not a diagnosis, it means chronic heel pain of unknown cause. That is a pretty hasty decision without a clear history of long term lameness or localization. Small feet and upright pasterns are not anything close to diagnostic and if the pasterns are upright it may be the foot balance is off and that alone can make a horse look short. Start with the article Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Navicular Disease / SynDrOme so that you can learn more about this condition and I would strongly recommend a more aggressive attempt at accurate diagnosis before you give up on this horses days on the trail.
DrO
Member:
Leec

Posted on Saturday, Jul 15, 2006 - 12:33 pm:

First, thank you Aileen for your kind words.

And yes, DrO, I agree with what you have said and I read the article. Unfortunately, I do not have the funds at the moment to delve deeper into diagnostics. However, I have a farrier coming today to help assess the situation. We will try what he thinks in his experience will help. That is about as much as I can afford to do at the moment. I will keep you posted as to whether or not she is sound again after being shod differently.
Lee C
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jul 15, 2006 - 1:32 pm:

If possible review the shoeing recommendations and then study the articles on proper foot balance, Care for Horses » Hoof Care » Care of the Hoof: an Overview and then perhaps together you can find something that helps.
DrO
Member:
Vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Jul 15, 2006 - 2:06 pm:

Right on, Dr. O! "Navicular" is erroneously diagnosed too often -- especially in big quarter horse type of horses who also have long, upright pasterns. Years ago I had a diagnosis of navicular and changed the foot angles and shoed as instructed by that Vet. After the horse got used to the changes (some bute required at first) he was okay for a period of time, but later on he became even more lame in the shoes. He had been mostly okay and out of shoes these past couple of years with a fairly competent farrier, but still toed in a great deal with one front foot, and though mostly sound, was just barely and had some periods of lameness. He was "tender footed" when I got him 12 years ago. Now I am following the advice of a farrier with 25 years of experience who has applied equine podiatry theory for the past 7. Many years ago under my first farrier the horse had been consistently over-trimmed to the point of lameness and his heels were under-run. The next few farriers didn't do much better. His foot was distorting almost to the point of being "contracted." I had to let him grow out for 8 weeks before this last trim to get some hoof structure back. The trim was done in the manner of what is called a HPT (high performance trim). After the first trim the horse already walked so much better I almost cried. He has a long history of farriers hating him because he didn't want to stand very long on one front foot. (No wonder -- they hurt him too often!) When he was recently trimmed he was licking, chewing and was very relaxed. He was absolutely blissful. In the months ahead the horse's heels will gradually be lowered and we expect he will be able to come back out of retirement if I decide I want to do that.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jul 15, 2006 - 3:05 pm:

You're welcome Lee, and of course Dr. O is right. Vickie makes a HUGE point. My farrier waits to see if the horse licks and chews after a trim before the shoe is put on. It's a big indicator of balanced feet, not always the case I'm sure, but it seems to be the case with what I've observed. Look for it :-)

My horse has never licked and chewed until the last two farriers...tells me something there...
Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Saturday, Jul 15, 2006 - 9:43 pm:

Based upon Dr O's definition of Navicular synDrOme I had a 5 year old that met this discription. No changes on x-ray but he was just always very heel sore. I followed the vets recommendations (Dr. Black at Pioneer Equine) and ended up taking him eventing to preliminary level. Sold him at 10 years as a 100% sound horse. The woman who bought him x-rayed every square inch of him. Same vet vetted him. The moral of this story . . . . . You can mitigate many problems and there is no reason to throw in the towel based on one vets judgement call. If you cant afford having a vet do some blocking and take radiographs then by all means try barshoes and possibly pads. Periodic anti-inflamnatories to knock down any residual inflamation might also help.
Good luck and I hope you can get some productive help.
Member:
Leec

Posted on Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 - 4:48 pm:

Hi All,
My mare had her new shoes (rockered, egg-butt) put on yesterday and is not visibly lame in the pasture at the moment - fingers are crossed. My farrier is reluctant at this point to start changing any angles and does not think she was trimmed and shod incorrectly prior. Darn that I hadn't read your posts about the licking and chewing prior - I would have paid more attention to at what times was she doing it. She was doing it at certain points while the farrier was working on her. She was obviously tender in the front, as when he was shoeing her hinds, she would shuffle her front feet every few minutes and point with one or the other. She managed to wiggle those front feet around without once trying to pull her raised hind legs away from the farrier - such a good girl!

Vicki, what did/does your horse do as a job when he is ridden?

Shelley, your post has given me hope. What were Dr. Blacks recommendations, if you don't mind me asking?

DrO, I will make a point of sending some photos of Hanah's feet - perhaps you will see something that we have missed. I don't know if this makes any difference, but this mare was born with contracted tendons in the front. She was given medication (I can't remember the name of the drug, but I think it is fairly common) to help straighten her.
Lee C
Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Sunday, Jul 16, 2006 - 10:12 pm:

To be honest this was 15 years ago, I would be willing to bet there are other more effective treatments than the isoxophrene (sp?) and asprin combo I gave him periodically. I did it everytime I felt I pounded his feet. For example, an event or a cross-country schooling, or even a hard fast trail ride. I got him home, waited a day to make sure he was uninjured, and then started him on five days of these meds to knock down any low level inflamation that would otherwise stagnate in the foot and become chronic. The thinking was that every time you pounded them the inflamation would accumulate. This knocked it down and prevented it from accumulating. I would imigine bute would be very effective but I dont know if anything else will do it better.
I am planning to go down there tomorrow, I will try to remember to ask if the most effective treatment is the same.
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 1:10 am:

My QH mare was diagnosed with Navicular SynDrOme around 1985 - she was about 5. We had some incredible ups and downs and it put an early end to her show career. Still riding her today at 26.
If it IS Navicular, it would be great for your farrier and vet to consult together. X-rays seem to help them both in diagnosis and treatment and are not too expensive.
Bute has been used for long periods at different times over the years with no problems. We moved from mountainous/rocky 2 yrs ago, to flat/sandy. That was a great help.
My mare did terrible in any kind of bar shoe. She's been wearing regular shoes and a rim-degree pad that has an open center yet puts flexible pressure on her frog. For the past year, we've been having the center filled in with ( I think it's called Equi-Pak ), a kind of gel-epoxy. She's been extremely comfortably with it.
Keep as short a time between shoeings as possible.
Keep her weight as low as possible.
Bute before the farrier's visit helps.
With proper care, and depending on what you want to use her for, she could be around and rideable for many, many years. Good Luck!
Member:
Vickiann

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 10:13 am:

Lee C -- My horse who had been diagnosed with navicular was used for cutting and roping before I bought him at eight years of age. When I acquired him he was already tender-footed if you took him on some surfaces and could not be ridden the day after a trim. I used him for team-penning and trail riding. When being trimmed he also wanted to shift his weight on the front feet (and would take any opportunity to take the weight off the one he had most recently been standing on) -- more frequently than the farriers liked! I believe Lee is correct that if something IS navicular it is good to keep a short time between shoeing or trimming, and that is what I did back when we still thought he had that. Eventually though, the shoeing didn't help at all unless he had pads. He is doing much better barefoot than he had for years in shoes, and now I am finding out that the frequent trims (every 4 weeks) were NOT what was best for him. I needed to let him get some foot structure back and get him properly balanced. As the process evolves, I will post regarding the results of the gradual lowering of the heels.
Member:
Amara

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 12:52 pm:

my pony came up suddenly lame several years ago.. my vet swore up and down that it was the beginning of navicular synDrOme.. well, i thoroughly disagreed, as he is a haflinger and barefoot, and navicular is pretty unlikely for that type.. he did however have severe shoulder problems from his days as in pony pulling competitions (top weight 5000 lbs)...i finally convinced my vet to help me treat him for the shoulder problems and ignore his thought of navicular... it worked...he's probably got some of the best feet ever, and finally got sound shoulders... is it possible your horse's problems are elsewhere?

we also went round and round with this one horse for navicular.. did everything under the sun for him footwise... turned out he had a horrible case of lyme disease and by not getting to that early enough we screwed him up for life...

good luck with your horse.. dont mean to scare you but sometimes we need to look outside the box
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2006 - 1:13 pm:

Melissa, that's a good point, one of the reasons this website is so great, we're always learning and recieving such great input :-)

I came across this in another forum, I thought it quite interesting!

https://www.hoefkatrol.com/Webstite%20Engels/default.htm
Member:
Leec

Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 12:27 pm:

Hi All,
Although I have not had time to ride my mare since the bar shoes were put on, she appears quite comfortable in the pasture, which is hilly with hard footing in some places. I have watched her walk, trot, canter and pivot both up and down hill without any signs of soreness. My busy yearling who does everything in a hurry is out with her, so she is moving around more and faster than she would be on her own. I know I won't know really how sound she is until I start riding her out on the trails again, but watching her out there is encouraging.

Melissa, Lyme disease was one of the many things we considered, but have ruled it out. Based on the way my mare moves when she is sore, we ended up at the foot. She was palpated all over; neck, shoulders, back, legs etc. and reacted not at all. Hoof testers applied over the frog/heal area indicated that was the source of the pain.

Interesting information Aileen. My mare was originally started as a western pleasure prospect, with the use of a running martingale. I'm not using a martingale and the only time I ask her to DrOp her head on the trail is before going down a steep hill or when stepping over an obstacle. A friend riding with me commented that she keeps her hind end well under her without the low head carriage, now I wonder if she was doing that to help keep weight of her sore front feet...

A farrier, who has not seen my mare, says she should be ridden on hard ground, even pavement and not just at the walk because the problem is just that she needs to be toughened up... I was a bit shocked to hear that one. Has anyone heard of doing such a thing?
Lee C
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC