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  Discussion on Length of time before effect of GastroGard or ranitidine are seen?
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New Member:
Eisaachs

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 12:05 pm:

I'm thinking of trying my horse on a trial course of GastroGard to see if it has any effect on his behavior when he is in a stressful situation (group trail ride, in this case). For how many days prior to a known stressful event would I have to have him on GastroGard in order to see a positive effect, if there will be a positive effect at all? How about Ranitidine--how long would I need to have him on the recommended dosage (from the article) before a positive effect is seen? I'm trying to determine if I have a pure behavioral problem, or there is an excess acid and/or ulcer problem. The only symptom he shows is intermittent bad behavior when he is stressed, and occasionally curling up his lip for no apparent reason, so I really can't justify a scoping at this point. He is a rather insecure 8 y.o. TB who raced as a 3 & 4 y.o., so he definitely is a good candidate for ulcers, though.
Member:
Sjeys

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 1:48 pm:

3-4 days is what I've found; usually in the 2-3 range. They obviously won't be healed yet, but my horse had tiny pinpoint ulcers and gastroguard just takes a day or two to really make him a lot more comfortable. I'm not sure how long it would take with more serious ulcers, maybe someone will chime in.

On the Ranitidine/Cimetidine, I saw a postiive change within 4-5 days.
New Member:
Eisaachs

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 5:06 pm:

Just looking at the dosage amounts of ranitidine recommended in the article. It looks like, for a 1200 lb (544.3 kg) horse, at 6.6 mg ranitidine per kg, 3592.5 mg (12 300 mg tablets) would be needed 3x per day (1 dose every 8 hours). Is this right?? I asked my vet recently how much is the dosage and I believe she said 12 300 mg tabs **2x/day**. My guess would be that is too low a dosage and wouldn't be effective, right?

Is it really necessary to get it *exactly* every 8 hours?}
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 7:33 pm:

I put my horse on Gastrogard, suspecting ulcers. In less than 2 days the difference was dramatic. My vet dismissed the idea, but I insisted doing it, prophylactically. She has now changed her tune and learned something. Not all horses have the obvious signs. Mine's came back within 4 months, as I only did 28 days, the first time. But I recognized the tell tale signs, immediately, and he's back on it for the full course of treatment, recommended by Dr. O.
It's money well spent, even if exorbitant, as I now have the horse I always wanted, a calm partner.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 11:27 pm:

In several studies ranitidine even at 3x daily has trouble overcoming ulcer Erin. If you are going to use is as a test this should be a minimum. I am interested in what specific behavioral problems you are addressing.
DrO
New Member:
Eisaachs

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006 - 4:26 pm:

To stenella: what are your horse's "tell tale signs"?

To Dr. Oglesby: Thanks for the info on the dosage. Just as background, I have only owned this horse since March. I am starting (to try) to get him ready for foxhunting, and he displays very agitated, nervous behavior while out on group trail rides. He supposedly has hunted for several seasons, but either I have been duped (or he was doped!) or there is something else going on with him. I myself did hunt him for a short time on one hunt in March, and he was not perfect but far from the level of agitation and subsequent bad behavior he shows now. I am just trying to rule out physical problems. Also, as background, he shows no other symptoms of gastric ulcers. He gets about 4 lbs of a 10% pelleted feed/day in 2 meals, free choice timothy/brome hay and is in a stall with a turnout area during the day, pasture at night. He was on 24/7 turnout before. I can make a field with some grass available to him during the day, but I suspect he would spend all his time in the stall in front of the fan anyway. It's just way too hot and buggy out there for a sensitive TB who is also black!

I'd love to try the Gastrogard or Ulcergard for 2 or 3 days and then see how he would do on a group ride, but if I can do 4 or 5 days on the ranitidine at a fraction of the price and basically perform the same test, I'd rather spend the lesser amount. I just have to decide if I want to go through the annoyance of having to count out multitudes of pills and of trying to get it into him 3x per day. I guess you pay for it one way or another!
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 1:43 am:

Hi. My horse's signs were not the "classic" textbook signs. For years he was a bolter. His lip would quiver in fear, the tongue go out one side while riding. He couldn't bear to be inside the barn in rain storms. He'd eat his supplements fine, but with hay, would eat a bite, then walk outside, not just stand there and eat his hay like the other ones I've had. He was always fearful, sensitive to noise, always on alert. His weight has always been good. His coat glossy.
In piecing together other physical issues he had myself, I went with my gut and decided to try it, as it couldn't hurt. In just over 24 hours the change was like night and day.
I now realize the lip and tongue were telltale signs of stomach pain, and I new to retreat him. I haven't see a quiver or the tongue since I started retreating with the gastrogard. I just wish I'd know about doing more than the 28 day course, the first time.
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 1:57 am:

To add, prior to treating, I was never safe riding alone, and even in company, had to get off if he became too stressed out, and walk him, till he calmed down. Now I ride him alone, for 10 mile rides, in the National Park. We encounter wild animals and groups of screaming school children, etc.
I would also look at what might be causing the stomach problem (if that is what it turns out to be). There may be some other physical issue causing him pain, that then sets off the acid. This was the case with mine.
New Member:
Eisaachs

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 8:53 am:

Hi Stenella -
Your story is very compelling; thanks for sharing it. I've heard of others that have had similar results, but I'm sure there are also many who simply have a pure behavioral issue. It's too bad the cost is just so high for the Gastrogard; otherwise I'd try it in a heartbeat. What was the other physical issue causing the pain that set him off?
Erin
Member:
Stenella

Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 5:21 pm:

It really doesn't matter what kind; I think, what's important is if a horse has been worked or trained with pain that was never acknowledged or addressed, it can only deal with it in two ways, internalize it, (develop ulcers) or externalize it (defensive aggressive behavior). The point is that horses do things for a reason, and putting a bandaid on the symptom, instead of finding and addressing the cause will never get rid of the symptoms or behavior, for good.
One has to become a detective to figure out what's wrong, as we the owners are the ones who ultimately have the responsibility, emotional investment, and desire to get to the root of a problem. It is us who care the most.
New Member:
ridnradn

Posted on Sunday, Mar 4, 2007 - 12:09 pm:

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has done Gastrogard for 3 days followed by a reduced daily dose of Ulcergard for 3 weeks?
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Mar 4, 2007 - 1:14 pm:

I've used Gastroguard, but as a preventative when I've had a horse on bute for extended periods of time. I think it helped as the horse never developed any digestive problems nor went off feed. However, I've never used it on a horse that already had ulcers.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 5, 2007 - 8:11 am:

Sara,
though I have had some horses on bute for years, I have not had a case where a horse developed digestive disorders attributable to the bute. Maybe I have just been lucky to have never had a horse get ill from its use despite many thousands of prescriptions but the point here is the incidence of bute related problems when used according to label instructions is very low.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Mar 5, 2007 - 10:12 am:

That's good news. My vet suggested I put our gelding on it and previously, Libby, as both were on bute for so long. I was under the impression that bute was hard on their stomach much like aspirin can be on ours.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Mar 5, 2007 - 1:23 pm:

Lynn, I've only done the full gastro for a month and 1/2 dose for a month last year after an ulcer diagnosis. She responded quickly and we had great results. This year, we chose to put her on a preventative dose at the beginning of hunting season as she gets so upset with the shooting.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 5, 2007 - 8:03 pm:

Sara, for healthy reasons, I have taken aspirin daily for over 5 years now. Yes use doses too high or if you have unusual sensitivity it may effect you adversely but the vast majority of the population are fine when used according to label directions and without the need for Prilosec.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Mar 5, 2007 - 8:50 pm:

I thought plain aspirin, not buffered, was hard on stomachs. I know I can't take it, but then I also know I'm in the "sensitive" group.

I've just always heard that bute over a long period of time was hard on a horse. I've been so concerned about it that when I've had to have a horse on a pain med/antiinflamatory I've switched to other things after awhile, like Devil's claw, that aren't as good but that I've thought were easier on the stomach. I'm glad to hear the bute is o.k. to use long term. I have two arthritic older horses that need something when the weather is cold or when they feel too good and over do.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 6, 2007 - 6:05 am:

Currently we are in the middle of updating all the articles on the treatment of arthritis. Once they get out I hope they will help. In the mean time check out the article on NSAID's Overview and the one on phenylbutazone in particular. We do have some members experimenting with naproxen (Naprosyn) in their horses as their is a feeling it may be even safer at equipotent dosages.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 6, 2007 - 11:05 am:

Yes, I've been following with interest the posts re: naproxen.
Member:
lloyd

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 7:36 pm:

I am preparing to put two of my race horses on Gastrogard. I have read the literature and talked to 3 vets and have found their prices and approaches very different. The cost is very high, however one vet told me in private that the generic version works just as good as the government approved version and it is so much mores reasonable. I would appreciate feedback from anyone who has used either product with positive results.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 10:48 pm:

My vet also told me the generic was as good and much less expensive. I used it as a preventative with a horse on long term bute use, but as you can see in the above posts Dr. O. didn't feel I needed to use it. I never had a problem with the horse showing any signs of ulcers, but have no way of knowing if it was because of the gastroguard (or in my case the generic.)

There were several posts re: generic drugs, I think they were on the thread about Naproxin.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2007 - 5:49 am:

Not all generics are the same, particularly with respect to omeprazole, you have to be sure which you are talking about. The article on Gastric Ulcers discusses this issue.
DrO
Member:
amara

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2007 - 6:36 pm:

we have a suspected ulcer draft horse and decided to see if he would have any positive response using a human omeprazole at equine prescribed doses.. while it is in pill form and the horse does chew it, which would seem to negate its "all day" effect, we have seen very very positive results at a fraction of the cost...
i've used regular gastro gard in the past and saw similar results, so i doubt very much this is a coincedence, especially as the draft's long term "problem" resolved within a few days and has yet to make even the slightest reappearance..
good luck...
Member:
lloyd

Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2007 - 7:45 pm:

I will keep you all posted as one was put on Gastrogard today and will be monitored very closely to determine his habits and race results for improvement. The other one will be put on the generic version and will be monitored the same.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 3:40 pm:

Thank you, Lloyd, I'll be one of the very interested parties!
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