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  Discussion on What are signs of Botulism?
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New Member:
Camper

Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 7:12 pm:

Hello, I need some help and Im hoping I can get it here. I have a 10 year old QH that became lame about 4 weeks ago so I had a blood test done. It came back that his WBC was low at 5.2 (5.5-12.5) his RBC low at 6.4 (6.5-10.5_and his HCT low at 32. Also Neutrophils was low at 2236 (2700-6700) but his T4 was high at 3.74 (1.0-3.0)
The vet said he was anemic but nothing to worry about. We began him on Red Cell for about 3 weeks until I learned it could cause all kinds of problems. Note that my horse was at rest because he had been lame at the time these blood tests were taken. My vet never mentioned that would make a difference, but Im thinking it could have made the numbers lower. After another 2 weeks he was no longer lame and seemed fine..Then on Wednesday, August 16 I came home to find my horse was breathing at 80 breaths per minute and had a fever of 104.5. I gave him an alcohol bath, called the vet and he had me give him Diphrone and 2 grams of bute. His fever went down and in a couple of hours he was back to normal. He was eating good, but seemed to have a belly ache the next day or two, then on Saturday I took him over to my neigbors to ride around a bit, just at a walk and he began flaring his nostrils and breathing rapidly. I cooled him off and he drank water but continued to flare his nostrils. Hes had a bit of clear discharge from both nostrils, and his belly at the flanks seemed touchy. His poop is sometimes enough piles, and sometimes half waht it should be, being only 3 to 4 a day. Heres my question..On Friday August 11, I had found a dead bird in his hay that morning. It was a whole bird, and my horse had left the hay it was in so I didnt think much about it until just last night. Could all of this be caused from that bird? Could he have Botulism? SHould I call the vet? Last night his nostrils were not flaring and he seemed much better, but Im worried. The low blood counts were taken before the bird was found..but the bird was before the fever and the respitory problem. His fever has been normal since that one episode. The neighbors horses behind me have had a cough for over a month and the vet thought that he had probably caught a virus...but Id forgot about that dead bird I found 4 days earlier. Ill be watching for some help..sorry this is so long. Thanks..
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 1:10 am:

I'll jump in here. I saw botulism once, first hand. Not my horse, thank heaven. What I saw, were definite neurological problems. It also seemed to progress very quickly. First, he walked in odd circles. At times, he would hang over his feed as though he had forgotten how to eat. His movements were weird, and inconsistent. In a short period of time, he lost his rear end and had difficulty swallowing. Finally, his respiratory system seemed to give out. I can't remember all the details, but the decline was fairly steep and rapid.

This 9 yr. old, who was very healthy, was paired with an old ( 30 something )retired roping horse with virtually no molars. The old boy was fed soaked alfalfa cubes and a soaked pelleted feed. He had an old, fixed, corner cast iron feed tub. There were chickens, and various wildlife that passed through that stall often.

The barn owner, who owned these two horses, fell ill, and was incapacitated for a few months. The care fell to an inexperienced person, who did not clean the remains from this tub daily....just added new feed. The old horse ate from this tub and salivated in it, chickens, defecating from the rafters above fouled it, the mice probably were involved also. The old horse would nibble at the new stuff on top, but refused to "dig in". After a while, he turned away from it entirely. That's when the younger horse began nibbling at it nightly. Their stall doors opened into the same paddock and were left open after feedings. When the younger horse began showing symptoms, the vet came but couldn't pinpoint the illness.

I discovered the feed tub then with the noxious mixture in it. The old horse was refusing to touch it by then....I don't know why the younger horse kept eating it - he was fat and shiney and in top form, as he was competed up until the owner dislocated a bunch of ribs and was immobilised. By the time the owner could get down to the barn, the young horse was in trouble. Botulism was suggested by the vet, but the owner got outraged, thinking it was a suggestion that his skills were being questioned. Silly, since he was housebound the whole time. I snuck a sample from the feed bin, ( now, hard crusted over the top, slimey underneath )and sent it on my own to a lab. The horse was dead by the time I received the results: positive for clostridium botulinum. However, since it exists everywhere, some kind of mouse test was necessary to confirm which strain it was. It, too, was positive for the disease causing strain.

This all happened around '82 or '83. To this day, the owner does not accept that botulism was the culprit - but it did not reflect on him - he was out of commission for 3 months at the time. However, as soon as possible, the owner and I had all our horses inoculated against botulism, and, as of last spring, we still do.

Like others, I would like to keep my horses' inoculations to a minimum...but I can't let go of the botulism - I was holding that horse's head when he died.

I would be very surprised if your horse had botulism. The fever alone would account for a lot of the symptoms. I believe that botulism can be neurological or intestinal, but Dr.O would have to clarify that....but, either way, your symptoms don't seem that severe. Ever see anyone with a bad case of food poisoning? The lameness and it's cause might be worth further investigation.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 22, 2006 - 6:37 am:

Hello DJ,
As Lee states, you do not describe symptoms of Botulism, for more on this see Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » Botulism Poisoning, Shaker Foals.

A possibility, among several, is that you may have started your horse back to work too quickly following a viral infection or while ill from some other as yet undetermined cause. While this may be a temporary thing such stress can lead to more serious secondary bacterial infections. So if your horse continues to show abnormal vital signs you should have your vet out, for more on evaluating vital signs see Diseases of Horses » First Aid » Taking Temperature, Pulse, and Respiration.
DrO
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