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  Discussion on Dealing with a Sarcoid
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New Member:
Ama431

Posted on Sunday, Oct 3, 2004 - 8:33 pm:

I have just discovered after removal of a wart near my mare's lip that the pathology showed the warty sarcoid type...The Melbourne vet Clinical School are putting radon implants in her wound next week... why did "Horse Advice" say it NA for this type of sarcoid. I'm trying to get on top of it before it gets bigger. I'm 2 hours from the vet school and I'm not sure if there are any Teletherapy units in Australia. Do you know?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2004 - 6:33 am:

Hello Ria,
This chart is adapted from the equine dermatology text Pacoe’s and Knottenbelts Manual of Equine Dermatology. I suspect the reason is the general shape of a verrucous (warty) sarcoid vs the "shape" of the radiation field produced by the implants: it is a geometry problem. Verrucous sarcoids are flat and can be quite spread out while the radiation field around the implants is a sphere. This means that relatively high doses of radiation are delivered to normal tissues underlying the implant and low doses to the parts of the sarcoid distant from and between the implants. If you had a small circular lesion, like a single wart, a small implant might be logical.
DrO
Member:
Ama431

Posted on Friday, Dec 10, 2004 - 2:02 am:

Dear Dr O,
My horse ended up having 3-phase cryotherapy (freeze-thaw) to her verrecous sarcoids 35 days ago...I have a series of photos if I posted them to you could you tell me if you think she will have a lot of scarring? I used Wheatgrass extract from the 13th day because I felt the insecticide/antiseptic cream my vet suggested was drying it out too much....I felt a very slow granulation process may be better for long term scarring.... Does the pink area never turn black eventually? I'll send the photos..in the next couple of days when my 12 year old son..finds the time!!! I know the flies on her face make it look disgusting..but they really didn't seem to do all that much damage.
Ria MaguirePortia's sarcoid day 36
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 10, 2004 - 6:38 am:

The pink area in the picture is granulation tissue: it is the scaffolding on which the skin grows across. If healing is slowed you will get a bigger scar. I am unfamiliar with wheatgrass as a therapeutic so cannot comment on what its effect on the wound would be. For more on our recommendations for long term wound care see, Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Long Term Deep Wound Care.
DrO
Member:
Ama431

Posted on Saturday, Dec 11, 2004 - 8:42 pm:

Dear Dr. O,
I read your article on deep wounds, it does say there that after the first month..." the tendency of some people to begin trying to dry up a large wound at this time is misdirected as it slows down the re-epithelization and causes a bigger scar."...which bit didn't I get?
Ria Maguire
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Dec 12, 2004 - 9:23 am:

That wheatgrass is not in our recommendations for treating wounds and I am unaware of any benefit from its use. Many of these natural products when tested actually tend to slow down reepitheliation.
DrO
Member:
Ama431

Posted on Monday, Dec 13, 2004 - 3:03 am:

Dear Dr.O,
Touché! I don't personally know the wheatgrass person...if that is what you are implying...and I guess Digitalis was just a herb once...
When I referred to the pink area..I wasn't talking about to the granulation tissue..but the light pink outer margin..which I thought was hypopigmented epidermis... and as I have never had a grey before....I'm not sure this will ever go black..I presume it doesn't but I really wasn't trying to be a smart-arse..just asking.
Ria Maguire
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Dec 13, 2004 - 7:31 am:

You are exactly right: that is new skin with no pigmentation. The melantocytes do not usually repopulate re-epithealized skin and should not be looked upon as inappropriate healing.
DrO
Member:
Traveler

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 - 3:54 pm:

Hi,
My 15 yr old gelding developed a sarcoid (lab verified from biopsy)in the pastern area on a hind leg. A neighbor whose main business is buying and selling expensive horses told me about Xxtera and because of the difficulty in doing surgery because of the location, I decided to try it. So far the results have been truly amazing. I am on the 'fourth' go round of treatments and with each application more is gone. My question is, does anyone know, generally, how many applications it takes before it's completely gone? Is it likely to come back? Thanks.
Member:
Lindsey

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 18, 2006 - 10:02 pm:

Hi Marti,
My guy had and still has several. About 5 of them in his groin area & belly. In the past I used the Liverpool cream or cytotoxic cream. Great success, 3 days on, lots of swelling & they fell off. Back then there were only 2. Now a year later they came back with 3 more in the same areas.

My vet also gave me Xxterra. I'm treating 2 sarcoids at the time, so I don't hurt him too much, as it causes quite some swelling, as you probably know. I have had the little ones fall off after 4 days on, 4 days off treatment.
At present I'm treating a larger one (size of a cherry tomato). I've done the 4 days on & off treatment 3 times already and now it looks like we are getting there. So I suppose you just have to continue until it falls off and not rush it.
I had one that had already formed a crust which I then stupidly pulled off myself, only to notice the little round tumour still in place underneath, so I then again had to re-apply.
So far I have used 6 of those little pots.
My understanding is that the cream only attacks the tumorous cells and not the healthy tissue, therefore if you apply too much or apply it too long, it won't harm. I hope I got that right.

I also think it's great stuff. I just hope they won't come back like I had with the cytotoxic cream.

Regards,
Patsy.
Member:
Christel

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 12:12 am:

I have a mare that had one about the size of a quarter on her lower jaw. During a repro appt at the vets, a vet tech told me it was a sacroid, and to leave it alone or it would get bigger, and did not offer any treatment.
I read somewhere (horsecity, i think) about someone having luck in ridding sacroids by feeding rice bran oil. I will try almost anything once, so I ordered some and started feeding it. The durn thing disappeared in a few short weeks and has yet to comeback, that was 3 years ago.
Hope you find a cure for your horse.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 8:02 am:

Patsy is incorrect, the Xxterra will also harm healthy tissue so use with care. There are no scientific studies on this product so you should follow the instructions and when in doubt I would error on the side of caution. Recurrence within the next year does occur in some cases but there are no large studies to draw from. We have several discussions and experiences with the use of the product so run a search to see what others say.
DrO
Member:
Traveler

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 11:04 am:

Hi,
Dr. O, thanks for your input. I agree, as my Vet told me to always wear gloves and to use it with great caution. I have read just about everything I can find, include the article on sarcoids here. Strange things. I will let you know of the final results.
Christella, never heard of the rice bran oil treatment. How much did you give at a time? I would much prefer a treatment like that, and will try to do some research on it.
Thanks.
Member:
Jivete

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 11:50 am:

I used a blood root/zinc chloride (the same ingredients are in Xxterra I believe) cream from one of the online herbal stores (herbalremedies.com) to get rid of my filly's sarcoid. It worked really well once I started using it everyday. It was much cheaper than the Xxterra (about $15/jar). I also bought some ground blood root from the local tea/herbal shop and mixed it with one of the "black ointments" you can get at the health food stores. It finished the sarcoid off but was less aggressive. I think it's the combo of blood root and zinc that are so effective. If you google it, it comes up for human skin cancers as well.

Good luck. They sure are a pain and thankfully, Lily's has been gone a year.
Member:
Lindsey

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 11:50 am:

Oh dear. Thanks for the advice Dr O. Because I am indeed using it quite aggressively. Didn't think of using gloves either.

The reason I though it was harmless, is because I found the following on the vetlineequine website : "XXTERRA appears safe on normal skin. It has been used in the oral cavity of humans and dogs with no ill effects. Application to shaved legs of 10 horses under a wrap for 7 days produced only transient erythema on 2 horses. Continued contact to the hands and arms of Dr. Larson for over 30 years have produced nothing but transient dry skin."

But I agree, won't harm being cautious. To be honest, I don't even know what erythema means, so I wouldn't know what to look for.

I've also never heard of the rice bran treatment. People probably give it with the idea of boosting the horse's immune system.
The additional treatment I give him is, a 30cc dose thuja daily. Supposedly a homeopathic cure for warts, sarcoids etc. I do say 'supposedly', because I have not got much experience with homeopathic medicines. I seriously doubt it would cure tumours as aggressive as sarcoids, but as a side treatment, I thought I'd give it a go.
Fingers crossed we can get rid of those annoying growths.
Regards,
Patsy.
Member:
Lilo

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 1:04 pm:

My gelding, Jose, was diagnosed with a sarcoid on his sheath about three years ago (biopsy was taken and analyzed to diagnose the sarcoid). We decided not to treat at the time. I was tempted to use the Crest toothpaste that has been discussed on this site, but had not started it.
At the 2005 fall check-up the sarcoid was gone. Somewhat mysterious to me - the vet thought that maybe the gelding's immune system kicked in and got rid of it. Don't know if anyone else had such an experience, but obviously I was relieved. Will keep and eye out for recurrence, however.
Lilo
Member:
Christel

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 2:22 pm:

Hi Marty, I was giving 1/4-1/2 cup twice a day, poured on her grain.
I started buying it from a company called, Blue Horse Brand, they have since gone under and still owe me a few gallons. I now purchase it from riceland.com, which is a farmer owned cooperative out of Arkansas. They sell it more as an oil to cook with and I use it in my kitchen too- especially to fry turkey in as it has a high smoking temperature rating, even higher than peanut oil. I also purchase it from McCauley Brothers which manufactures it for animals, theirs is less refined, not bleached and really is a totally different oil, you cannot see thru it, lots of stuff floating around. I wouldn't cook w/ it, and it costs way more than the riceland- but have to admit it looks healthier, it has to be shaken each time as the stuff settles to bottom- whereas riceland is pretty clear (like any vegetable oil we buy to cook with) and shaking isn't necessary.
At the time I was using it on the mare w/ sarcoids I was using Blue Horse Brand, which seemed no different than the riceland in color etc..
Do a google search on rice bran oil, lots of info out there, more for humans than horses tho.
Hope my story is not just coincidence and it works for you too, have to agree sarcoids are nasty looking things.
Chris
Oh, and I have never used the rice 'bran', only the rice bran 'oil', hope no one gets confused.
Member:
Traveler

Posted on Thursday, Jan 19, 2006 - 4:27 pm:

Hi,

Thanks Christella. Think I'm going to try to find some. I use plain rice bran to keep a good coat and skin condition and it works really well, plus they love it. Got to be careful though, it makes them fat.
Patsy, I've heard of people using Xxtera on themselves. Not sure I'd go that far, but I'm told they have the same results???? Do be careful with it. Better safe than sorry.
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