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Discussion on Seasonal Narcolepsy ??
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2001 - 3:58 am:
As far as I am aware narcolepsy is not seasonal but my mares symptoms disappeared last November and are beginning to return once again.
All the following symptoms start off very mild and get worse over the summer months.
Symptoms are :
dull/cloudy look in eye
Lethargic and switched off
Sleepy when saddled progressing to front legs buckling when saddled.
Other symptoms are :
Rubbing hind hooves off corner feed bin / occassionally resting hind legs on feed bin.
Irritability - doesn't want to be touched/handled
Weight Gain
Occassional Mud Licking
All year round - extremely touchy/cranky when saddled or has her back brushed
I am going to get her ovaries checked as the symptoms could possibly coincide with her coming into/going out of season, the other thought is that she is allergic to something in the field /grass which only presents itself at certain times of the year.
Just wondering if any one has come accross anything similiar or got any suggestions on what could be wrong with her.
Thanks in advance
Emma
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Posted on Friday, Apr 27, 2001 - 3:55 am:
Sorry - newly joined member getting impatient !!
Anyone come accross any horses that exhibit
narcoleptic symptoms seasonally ??
Anyone know any horses that exhibit narcoleptic symptoms as the result of a grass/plant/food allergy ??
Anyone know any Mare's that exhibit narcoleptic symptoms as the result of hormone imbalances or ovary problems ??
Thanks
Emma
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Posted on Friday, Apr 27, 2001 - 10:02 am:
Hello Emma,
It may be that no one has seen narcolepsy associated with estrus. We do have a member who has a horse with seizures that she believes may be related to estrus. Run a search on seizure and hormones to find them and some discussions we have had as to what she might do to relieve them.
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Aug 13, 2001 - 4:03 am:
Hi DrO just looking for a bit of advice on where to go from here.
Since April my mare hasn't really had any serious episodes bar adopting a splayed leg stance and dozing when saddled .. I had almost convinced myself she was better and that I was just being paranoid.
But for the past 6 days the cataplexy has returned and her eyes are once again dull and she is a little listless. Back in April my vet told me if she got bad again then he hadn't a clue what was wrong and would try to get her into the veterinary college but it would have to be before the end of May because they close for the summer.
Well the college is closed and my vet will be stumped so I was wondering if you had any suggestions on where to go from here. My vet seems to think that once my mare is still riding fine after the episodes then there isn't really a problem but last year she got so lethargic I had to stop riding her. In general I am concerned that she is in pain or discomfort as narcolepsy/cataplexy aside her hind legs seem to get extremely itchy or sore as she rubs or just rests them against things and she is just lacking her usual sparkle ( her chin is constantly quivering these days as if she is constantly itchy ).
If this thing is seasonal then in my humble opinion there are only 3 things it could be : the field/grass, her estrus cycles or possibly even just being overweight as she tends to be at this time of year. It has also been extremely difficult to tell when she is in season as at the best of times she hardly shows at all .. I am now getting concerned that she hasn't been coming into season at all and this is something vital that I have been missing.
I am also trying to ascertain if she actually has got Narcolepsy even though the bad "episodes" seem to be confined to one season of the year. If she had true Narcolepsy would she be consistently "falling over" every single time she was saddled?
At the moment she is also madly licking anything metal ( goes into a bit of a trance licking the top of her stable door ). She has also been occasionally mud licking and seems obsessed with trying to eat ( not chew ) wood ... she does not do this all year round.
Sorry for the length of this DrO just wondering if this was your case what you would suggest or do ?? ( I am hoping to be able to point my vet in the right direction ).
Thanks for your time
Emma ( & Dawn ).
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Posted on Monday, Aug 13, 2001 - 5:03 pm:
Hello Emma,
Though narcolepsy appears to be part of the above history I do not think it explains all the symptoms. Narcolepsy and cataplexy are episodic in nature with the cycles happening in terms of hours, not months. I do not know what is causing the general lethergy and depression but I would always start with a good physical exam and complete lab work up on the blood and see where this led me.
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 3:15 am:
Hi DrO - thanks for the swift reply.
Sorry I should have mentioned that last year my vet did a physical exam and full blood work-up and didn't find anything out of the ordinary - I think this is why he is now at a loss of what to do. I know it is highly unlikely that I will ever find out what is causing these symptoms but I would at least like to try and at the very least alleviate some of them. Someone in the yard suggested I get a worm count done as this could be causing the itchiness behind - is this worth doing ?? Is it worth getting her ovaries or hormone levels checked ?? Is there any point in doing another blood work up ?? Is there anything else you would suggest trying ??
Sorry for all the questions but to be honest I really don't know where else to turn.
Thanks again
Emma
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 4:36 am:
Hello Emma,
I know I seem to avoid your direct questions but there is a reason. Basically you have a periodically lethargic horse, in the summer, with normal physical and laboratory findings. From such a general finding specific recommendations are hard to make. Throw in she is all the time cranky and it still doesn't really describe a disease process.
Concerning the difficult to tell when she is in, this in normal for mares not around a stallion, but could be something to look at. To your direct questions of above all these procedures will yield useful information even if they come back normal but require careful thought to evaluate them properly. Investigating for a granulosa cell tumor might be useful, see Equine Diseases: Reproductive Diseases: Trouble Settling Mares & Stallion Infertility: Abnormal Heat Cycles (Estrus) for more.
I do think a repeat physical and lab work up might uncover something if there is a progressive problem. Also you might attempt to reduce the overall weight (condition). If the heat is a factor in this excess weight will hurt you. There is one other fact I would like, what is this mares age and is early Cushings a possiblity? Letheragy is certainly a common finding, though it ususally is not episodic. For more see, Equine Diseases: Endocrine Disorders: Cushing's SynDrOme and Pituitary Tumors.
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 6:00 am:
Hi DrO, I don't think Cushings is a possibility but I have wondered myself about a granulosa cell tumour. My mare just turned 8 in April and last summer was the first time ( to my knowledge )she exhibited any of these symptoms. She is always one of the first horses to shed her winter coat and has an extremely short, glossy summer coat. She does not excessively drink, urinate, sweat or have muscle wastage. She is an extremely good doer and quite difficult to keep the weight off. She does seem very sensitive skinned and is prone to dry hair and brittle feet.
I can always tell when "sleep episodes" are on the way as they always seem to be proceeded by dull eyes, itchiness and rubbed hooves ( she rubs the front toe of her hooves smooth .. my farrier has never seen anything like it before ) which is why I feel all these things have got to be related. Going on last year and this year so far the actual bad "sleep episodes" ( the ones with cataplexy ) only seem to last for a couple of weeks and then they stop. Last year these began roughly in the last 2 weeks in July - this year seems to be a little later but is still roughly around the same time of year/growing season ( someone actually metioned recently that they reckoned we were about 1 month behind growth wise this year ).. don't know if any of this is significant. If last year is anything to go on the cataplexy will stop in a week or two and she will just become gradually more and more lethargic and possibly irritable - She is not cranky or irritable at the moment only midly when saddled( don't think she has the energy to protest any more )... the reason I mentioned the crankiness in my 1st email was more to do with highlighting the fact that she is always very touchy about her back - was just trying to provide as much info as possible.
Sorry .. once again I am rabbiting on .. just hard to know what is or isn't significant.
Emma
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 7:53 am:
Hi Emma,
I'm the member with the epileptic mare. She also shows touchiness in her back when being saddled during the week before her season, getting quite upset when I lower the saddle on. I'm always careful but she will sometimes buck or hump her back and always turns around to try to bite me. A couple of years ago I had her examined internally and my vet couldn't find anything wrong with her ovaries but she definitely gets ovulation pain which can cause her to rub her rear on the wall and kick at herself.
Is your vet quite certain that your mare is showing periods of narcolepsy when you saddle her? My horse goes straight to sleep as soon as I trim the hair on her heels and when the farrier starts on her - she just seems to love having her lower legs handled  I can also soothe her quickly by stroking her tail. She always nods off when I'm brushing or pulling it which is hardly the behaviour you'd expect from a mare.
I know what you mean about the twitchy chin too. Cara's is very mobile especially when she is dozing. She does a funny little grimace and draws her head in slightly in 3 jerks. Several vets have spotted it and asked about it thinking it might be minor fit behaviour but I think its just her habit.
It might be worth pursuing the allergy/headshaking theory a bit more. I suspect Cara may be a borderline headshaker. She itches her nose on her leg or the wall very frequently especially when she is eating. I've noticed that she particularly does it when she gets a taste that is strong or unpleasant. Lately she has been really tossing her head at times but as it always happens when I ride her on the left rein I suspect her teeth need looking at. In fact I'm having her checked this afternoon!
Don't give up, and look at really obvious things too. I scoffed when someone suggested I took the carrots out of Cara's feed - eventually I did to oblige them and she didn't have a single seizure for 6 months. Any chance of you bording your horse somewhere else to see if the symptoms disappear?
Good luck
Helen
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 9:16 am:
Hi Helen - nice to hear from you.
How is cara these days .. are things any better?
Unfortunately my mare snaps at me when saddled or brushed round the back on a daily basis, some days she can be worse than others lashing out and kicking the wall etc. but it is something that is always there.
My vet has no experience of narcolepsy, we are making assumptions based on the material we have read. But I have to say there is nothing else it could be. It only happens when she is saddled, she adopts a splayed stance, her eyes close or glaze over and her head lowers towards the floor - bottom lip DrOoping, on bad days she'll start to sway and fall backwards at which point her front legs will give way. She'll jolt awake when she starts to fall or when her nose hits the ground and scramble for balance. Then the whole thing starts again and each time it seems to get worse. If I don't wake her out of it ( which can be quite difficult to do ) she would definitely end up on the floor. Once snapped out of it bar a little bit of disorientation she seems fine and I have continued to ride her as normal.
In terms of chin twitching she does this while awake and it was always something she used to do prior to mutual grooming the air when I'd scratch her . I definitely feel it is an itchiness thing - actally she is quite funny at the moment, she is very demanding about being scratched, every time I enter the stable I am presented with either hind quarters or legs to scratch and I get glared at if I itch the wrong spot !!
For me allergy is a definite possiblity but is something that I feel is going to be very difficult to tie down - will defintely be a process of elimination. Head shaking is definitely out however.. she only ever shakes her head to get rid of those annoying flies !!
I am always open to suggestions and willing to investigate any avenue no matter how bizarre it may seem ..
Unfortunately, I don't think moving her now will solve anything, if this thing is grass/plant related I think the damage is already done - I took her off grass completely for a week or two last year when things got bad ( broke my heart ) and it didn't seem to make any difference. I think it would be something I'd need to do at the start of the summer (definitely a strong possiblity for next year).
Crikey - I could definitely talk for Ireland !!
Nice to hear from you - feels really good to be able to talk about it.
Keep those suggestions rolling in and Thanks !!
Good luck with the dentist !!
Emma
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