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Discussion on Unexplained episode of extreme pain
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 11:50 pm:
OK, this may be a futile effort but I thought I would at least post my experience and see if anyone had any ideas.
Today, I rode my mare lightly for about 1/2 hour. Then I untacked her and put her in the stall with a small flake of hay. Had a great ride and she was very normal and happy about it. Then I went into the house for about 15 min. Came out to tack up my gelding. about 10 minuets after I started brushing him I noticed my mare in the adjacent stall making quite a ruckus.
She was pawing, backing up into the side walls, looking at me and whinnying. She had broken out in a cold sweat all over, her resperation is WAY up. I could not take her temp or listen to her gut or anything, I was too busy keeping her from throwing herself down. She went down and got up quickly twice. Well, I figure its colic. So I took her out and started walking her. She was in incredible pain and went down on me twice more. Then about 20-30 minuets from the start of all this, she comes up to me, hangs her head and starts to relax. In about another 5-10 minuets she is completly calm and comfortable. Of course this is when the vet arrived. She could find nothing wrong. gut sounds were good. vitals were all normal. She had some sand but the vet did not think this was the cause.
Her opinion was that she had either flipped an intestine while I was in the house during a normal roll, and then corrected it during her painfull rolling, or something else that has nothing to do with colic.
Unfortunately I have had much experience with colic and she really did not look like she was colicing. She was very outward looking and she was shaking her head in a funny way as if she had hit it. Of course I checked her head all over and could not find any sensitive areas.
So . . . . . does anyone have any ideas ??
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Member:
Scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 6:30 am:
Hi, Shelley my gelding acts just like that when he is choking, matter of fact he did it just a few days ago on tall grass. He don't DrOol or have stuff coming out his nose, so I suppose it is a mild choke, but he panics. I have a very hard time determining if it's choke or colic. When he does this he paws and sweats profusely, throws himself on the ground and it really looks like a kid having a temper tantrum. I had the vet out when this happened and his gut sounds were normal, resp. was a little high. He does this about once a year, and I know it's time to have his teeth done. It took the vet and I a few years to figure out it was choke. So maybe have her teeth checked? Your story is the mirror of what my gelding does. Sometimes my geldings throat gets a little tight and then I rub his neck and that usually clears it, if not I call the vet. Just an idea
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 7:10 am:
Your description suggests colic Shelly with the difference from your past experiences being the amount of pain and how fast it came on. Lower levels of pain, slower onset of bad pain, or treated pain, tend to cause depression while this sounds like a very acute episode of extreme pain.
We do have a list of problems that look like colic at Diseases of Horses » Colic and GI Diseases » Colic in Horses » First Aid for Colic. See the "could this be something else" subtopic.
DrO
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 9:47 am:
thanks guys,
Dr O, she fit non of those descriptions you referenced in "could this be something else".
The choke description fit perfectly except there was no excessive saliva. She IS however a little piggy and ALWAYS finishes her hay way before everyone else. Her teeth haven't been done in a good year either.
She definetly looked panicky. Have you ever seen choke without excessive salivation?
What do you think about Diane's description ? It is exactly the same as my mare.
Shelley
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 3:28 pm:
Choke is on that list of "something else" Shelly. If the choke transient and short lived it is possible to not see excessive salivation and hay is a rare cause of choke. Otherwise choke is a common problem. If it happens again you should keep it in mind as a possibility but when you start talking atypical presentations keep an open mind to all the possibilities. Simple points and hooks will not predispose to Choke but major tooth problems do.
DrO
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 4:13 pm:
Thanks Dr O.
Actually I read the "something else". It only partially explained choke as a possibility as I think you are agreeing . . . ?
The Other possibility I am considering was suggested by my vet and is in the heart murmur category. I thought I would change subject headings to keep things in order. I am interested in your opinion there too. I read about 1/3 of the technical papers you have posted. My head started to spin after awhile. 
Any way, I suppose its possible it could have been a cardiac episode since they manifest themselves in different ways. But to be honest the papers were over my head because I do not know the terminology and I loaned my medical dictionary out . . . . he he he.
Shelley
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 6:47 pm:
During the visit,my vet commented that she found a "loud" murmur while taking her vitals and that I should consider the possibility that she had a cardiac event.
This mare is 7 years old and has never shown a performance problem. However, she has never been pushed terribly hard. She certainly has worked up a good sweat many times. The characteristic I am leaning on is that she always starts out lazy and after about 10-15 min builds her energy. The more she is worked the more energy she has. This does not sound like a significant heart problem to me.
Now my vet wants me to take her to UCDavis for a full heart work up. Is this really necessary to start with or is there some other evaluation I could do at home. For example, check to see if it goes away with exercise. Am I correct that this simple check could rule out a risky murmur?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 6:52 am:
The colic article provides a link to the choke article where it referenced it, if you would like a more thorough description. I am not agreeing this was a choke, it is a possibility but only one of several. I have seen abdominal colics behave this way too.
I think a thorough exam which includes checking to see if the murmur disappears on exercise is a good first step for evaluating the murmurs significance. If it does it is not a guarantee but a pretty significant indication of a functional murmur.
The veterinarian should also note heart rate, any irregularity to the beat, and the general characteristics of the murmur. All of these are easy to determine on a loud murmur and greatly increase the ability to diagnose the problem.
DrO
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