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  Discussion on WNV Vaccine Effect Stud Fertility?
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New Member:
Cbuck894

Posted on Saturday, Sep 30, 2006 - 8:53 pm:

I notice there have not been any posts to this issue in quite some time. We lost our stud to complications after WN last month. We had not vaccinated him yet because a vet told us it could lower his fertility. He was only a 2 year old and we wanted to breed 4 mares to him so we were waiting until they were bred. Unfortunately we waited too long. He settled one of the 4 before he got sick. We did everything we could, but after 2 1/2 months we lost him.
Has anyone else been told that WN vaccines lower a stud's fertility? Is this true or were we misled? If I would have had any idea WN was so prevelent in this area (we just moved to KS) I wouldn't have taken a chance - he would have been vaccinated regardless. After he got sick I was told 60 humans had WN last year in this county!
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks
Carol
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 10:05 am:

Welcome Carol,
Though there have not been any posts in last year, what is known about WNV and the vaccines are kept up to date daily in the article. Though we have heard such rumors there is no evidence that I am aware of that WNV adversely effects pregnancy or stallion fertility.
DrO
New Member:
Cbuck894

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 3:39 pm:

Dr O,
Thank you for your response. I have had one vet and one semen center owner tell me it definitely does reduce fertility and then two other (make that 3 now) vets tell me there is no evidence of it. I can guarantee you that there will not be another horse on my property that is not vaccinated for WN again. It is not worth watching a beautiful animal disintegrate before your very eyes.

Another question for you - have you ever seen a case of WN develop purpura? Our vet here in KS said she had never heard of purpura after WN. She was going to contact KSU and see if they were aware of any cases but I haven't had a chance to find out what they said.

Stormy actually came through the WN fairly well, however within 12 hours of bringing him home he developed a 105.8* temp that we could not bring down with antibiotic shots. We took him back to the vet and they kept him for another week giving him IVs and ulcer meds. They found he had ulcers from the WN meds. During that week his entire left side just blew up like a balloon from purpura, it never affected the right side. When the swelling went down he looked like a skeleton on the left side and relatively normal on the right side. The purpura had virtually destroyed all of the muscle on the left side. He developed a bowed tendon on the left front leg and a large abscess that had to be lanced twice. Over a two month period I watched a beautiful, strong 2 year old stud deteriorate into a skeleton, and finally he could no longer get up and we had to face the fact that we couldn't save him no matter how hard we tried. That was one of the worst days of my life and I never want to go through that again.

The hardest thing was knowing it all happened because I didn't give him one stupid $20 shot. If by posting this I can save others from going through the pain my family and I have then at least some good will come of it.

Carol
Member:
Christel

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 4:11 pm:

WOW Carol, what a horrible ordeal for you to have to go through, my condolences on your loss.
Thank you so much for posting this, I have been giving the WNV for the last 3-4 years, and was considering stopping, but after reading your story, most definetly will continue. My local vet seems to think WN is not a problem anymore, as they have not seen a case in this county in a couple of years. The first year it became an issue they treated more than 15 cases and seemed to think at that time, horses would build up an immunity to it in a couple of years. While I have not heard of any horses this year in my locale having a problem with WN, a few people have been diagnosed with it.
Thanks again for posting this.
Best Wishes,
Chris
New Member:
Cbuck894

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 4:53 pm:

Chris,
Thank you for your kind words. My advice would be don't even THINK about stopping your vaccinations for WN. It's just not worth it, the shot is about $20 and we have over $6000 in vet bills and still lost Stormy. As I said the most painful thing to deal with is knowing it never would have happened if I had just given him that shot.

I will try to attach some pictures to show you the before and after. I don't actually have any of him right before the end, I couldn't make myself take any of him like that. I didn't want to remember him that way.
Sorry the pictures of after are so small, I couldn't get them any larger for some reason.

Stormy Before WN

Stormy After WN

Stormy After WN
Carol
Member:
Dres

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 5:45 pm:

Carol he truly was a beautiful horse.. don't beat yourself up.. you did what you thought was right with the advice you were given...
regards..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 8:48 pm:

Carol, Thank you for sharing your story. I gave WN one year, saw all the bad reports about side effects from the vaccine, (the deformed foals) and haven't given it since. I do keep checking the number of cases in our area. And after seeing the pictures you posted, I will be giving the shots next spring for sure.

He was an awesome looking horse, and I feel for you at this time. So sorry for what you and Stormy went through. As Ann said, we all do what we can, and make our decisions based on what we feel is best with the current knowledge at hand.

(((Hugs from MI)))

DR.O.,

How long has the WN vaccine been used now on horses?? I believe there are 2 different brands now, one is considered better than the other?

I hate to start giving any animal or my kids, any shot that just came up as being needed, and not having a long history of use. (like now there is one for girls to get to prevent cervical cancer....I think that's it...sorry, my daughter won't be a guinea pig for that one)
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 9:23 pm:

What a nice looking guy, Carol. Both my husband and I have duns . . . just love them. From what I understand from our vet here in South Central Kansas, WNV vaccine is only recommended once a year . . . no 6 month boosters. Is it the same for you there in the west of the state?
Member:
Cbuck894

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 9:27 pm:

Thank you Ann and Angie for your kind words. I vowed the day Stormy died that I would tell as many animal lovers as possible about his story, I guess it is hopefully to make up to him for my failure in some small way. Maybe that way his death won't be in vain.

I too have heard horror stories about the side effects of many vaccines, however if we give them responsibly and be sure to give them in correct doses I truly believe the benefits will generally out way the negatives. Many times vaccines are given in much too high of doses considering body weight and age or metabolism (especially in our children!) I try to get as much info as possible on dosage before giving shots.

Just a note - my husband just told me they had the first case of WN in a dog in NE last week, and over 100 cases in humans reported! This is NOT going away any time soon.

Thanks again,
Carol
Member:
Cbuck894

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 9:57 pm:

Holly,
I think most of the time you are safe with just once a year after the initial 2 shots you give an unvaccinated horse but I have heard several times that in highly infested areas they recommend every 3-4 months. I am still researching that question! Maybe Dr. O can help us with that area.
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Sunday, Oct 1, 2006 - 10:38 pm:

You've done a wonderful service, Carol. What a heartache. We've been vaccinating twice a year here in NJ, since the beginning. I'd be afraid to cut back, the winters have been mild here until after December sometimes and I've seen mosquitoes circling the front porch light when hard frosts have come very late in the year.

So very, very sorry for the anguish you had to go through.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 2, 2006 - 6:47 am:

The above questions are covered in the article on West Nile Virus guys.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 2, 2006 - 8:41 am:

Thanks Carol for your story, I too was going to quit the wnv vaccine, because of reactions. I asked my vet about it this spring and he said sure just give me a call when they are flopping around the pasture.

I love that guys sense of humor. That flopping around picture was enough to make me give them the shot, and I am very glad I did. Your story just enforces his flopping and I will continue with the shots, Thank You for sharing.
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Monday, Oct 2, 2006 - 12:13 pm:

Your story is heartbreaking, Carol. Thank you for sharing.

Best wishes
Sue
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Monday, Oct 2, 2006 - 12:37 pm:

Carol, I am very sorry about your horse. I also live in WNV country here in Western Colorado although the local area I am in out here in the desert has a very low incidence of WN, most cases are caught near swamp lands,ponds, rivers, streams, or irrigation ditches, irrigated pastures with high grass, and canals.
Anyhow, I always vacinated my stallions early in the year for WN and their boosters, so that at least 60 days would have passed before starting the breeding season. this is just in case the vacine does affect them, 60 days is about the time period needed to clean out all the old sperm and for the horse to be producing all new ones. This time period is also needed if your stallion has any kind of infection which must be treated with antibotics, because infection will also kill sperm cells, which will again need to be replaced over about a two month period. My senior stallion, Cutter had some sort of bug in his semen one spring that I had to treat with some sulfa drugs. He wasnt completely sterile during that time period, but his live semen output was diminished until about 60 days post treatment, then it returned to normal.
Very sorry to hear about your colt. Chris www.canyonrimranch.net
Home of Bill the Cutter, last son of Cutter Bill and Peppys Solano Glo, son of Peppy San Badger. Offspring always available.
Member:
Cbuck894

Posted on Monday, Oct 2, 2006 - 1:57 pm:

Hi Christine,
Thank you for the information, that is helpful. Wish I would have known it last year, I could easily have vaccinated him in March because we didn't start breeding until early June when we finally got moved to KS.

I went to your website, I love your champagne stud colt! What would your champagne stud throw if bred to a cremello? We have 4 sorrel mares, a bay, a blue roan, a cremello, a palomino and a buckskin paint.

Carol
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Monday, Oct 2, 2006 - 6:18 pm:

Champagne is similar to dun, there is no cream gene, so what he is, is champagne on sorrel. I try to think of him as similar to a red dun. he can pass either champagne or sorrel or both. If you bred him to sorrel mares, you could get either foals that are sorrel or foals that look like him, a fifty fifty chance each time. But I have been told that if you have champagne on a palomino mare, then the foal will look similar to a cremello, washed out looking very light color, but it will still have the champagne colored skin and eyes plus the irridescent coat sheen, but it will not have blue eyes, except at birth. All champagnes have bright sky blue eyes at birth. But since he is also heterozygous, then about half of his foals will just receive the sorrel gene, so you could possibly get a palomino or a sorrel foal from a palomino mare. His dam is an amber champagne, which is champagne on bay, since her sire was a golden champagne, she also received the red gene, which both she and cutter passed onto this foal, along with the champagne gene. and she looks like a strange looking buckskin, buther points are a mink brown color, like a siamese cat, not black. This colt did not inherit the black gene, or he would have been an amber champagne like his dam or possibly champagne on buckskin, I am not sure what that would look like. If you bred him to bays you could get more amber champagnes, or bays, or blacks, possibly a classic champagne. There is a website and a registry for champagnes, which has good examples of champagne foals and adults in the various coat shades and colors. just do a search for International Champagne Horse Registry, I think the name is. I think that champagne on black is a really unusual color, which it would be possible to get with your blue roan mare. This color is called classic, I think.It would also be possible to get a champagne roan of some shade, which would be pretty interesting. If you can think of it in terms of like dun instead of cream, that should help you. Of course if the champagne gene is inherited , it will be reflected in the coat color, if it doesnt show, then it wasnt inherited and so it cannot be passed down. if you want to discuss it more, email me at canyonrimranch@aol.com he is a super nice colt and I would like him to go to a good home if I dont keep him for myself.
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