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  Discussion on Can type of hay influence colic?
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Member:
Kjthoma

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 9:39 pm:

I've had my horse here (in Tx) for a couple of years now. She came from Alberta where she was on a diet of mostly alfalfa.

Everybody here feeds coastal - which has been OK w/ me because she's a REALLY easy keeper.
Now have her at a barn where she's in training. We've had a hard time getting her going due to some physical issues - so she's just now really starting to work. She gets a couple flakes of coastal 2x per day, and 3/4 of a scoop of grass pellets 2x per day. No grazing or she turns into a blimp, but she is out on a dry-lot.

Had a gas colic in about July - right flank was really bulgy and tight - but the horse wasn't in too much distress. Went away w/ banamine and buscopan. I wasn't horribly concerned as there were a LOT of heat/humidity/etc induced colics right then. Started the horse on probiotics and some extra electrolytes.
Barn Mgr. called me tonite w/ the vet in attendance - the mare was standing in her stall one minute, and thrashing on the ground the next. Banamine alone wasn't cutting it and administered xylazine (sp?). The vet said that she seemed to be in severe pain and wanted to know what her pain threshold was (basically zero).

Right now she seems to be improving but we are puzzled by the apparent rapid onset of this bout, and the fact that it came so close on the heels of the last one.

The only thing that I can tell changed this go-round was that we got a new load of hay in Sunday. She was in for a few days last week due to flooding, but that was long enough ago that it seems not related.

We MAY have gotten a new load of hay in the last time as well, but I'm not positive.


Barn Mgr. is wondering if it's worth trying a different type of hay (timothy?) - he sez he's seen issues in some horses with coastal before because it's so stemmy.
Vet suggested an antacid - but I am having second thoughts about that given some of the reading I've done here.

Suggestions anybody?
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 10:29 pm:

Coastal is a mainstay down here in florida. They say, and i'm not sure if there are documents disproving it, but because the coastal is a finer type hay (not stemmier) that more of it gets eaten whole they don't chew it as diligently as a courser hay would be. So, there are many cases that attribute coastal to colic. So many people advise not to feed coastal as it causes colic. Which is really only a half truth its the horse that doesn't chew it properly. My horse is fine on the stuff. I just don't feed it as it has little nutritional value. and that is all i feed any longer... i stopped grains a year ago...

Oh some coastals are different in type. I have seen some a bit more green and soft almost like an alfalfa.. and then some like straw. Sometimes that might be a factor too. But always a fine stem not a course one.

I think your problem might lie in temperatures. Alberta to texas? big jump in temps.

My horse hates timothy... she will eat a Timothy alfalfa mix. or timothy and orchard grass mix... but never timothy alone....
Member:
Kjthoma

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 11:01 pm:

Ab to Tx yes - but that was 2 years ago (and she was convinced she died and went to the bad place that first year) ...Right now we are having 'jumpy' temps locally - 90's to 70's with another front due in in a couple days.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 11:57 pm:

Have you considered something other than the coastal? Have you had her checked for ulcers? The move and then starting training could certainly be enough to cause ulcers. I went through 8 years of ulcers with one mare due to to moving and stress. Just a thought.
Kathleen
Member:
Kjthoma

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 7:09 am:

Ulcers - training - work is a 4 letter word. Good point. Vet thot that the colic was too severe to be ulcer related - but this horse has exactly NO pain tolerance. Worth another thot.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 7:48 am:

Was a rectal exam done Kimberly? The problem Kimberly is that we don't know why the horse coliced and 60% of colics occur without a diagnosis ever being made. There are too many possibilities at this time to really make changes away from management that is not clearly at fault. Carefully review what you are doing, feeding and deworming wise as a start. If management seems good I do not recommend any remarkable changes, if any. If you think the feeding seems a bit thin in total mass considering our recommendations starting to feed small amounts of a stemmy timothy along with the Bermuda seems reasonable and building it up over time so the horse is getting adequate "grazing" time. The best preventive for ulcers is a good regular feeding program centered around forage. There are other recommendations for prevention in the ulcer article. If it happens again without a diagnosis or there are other symptoms consistent with ulcers, I would have the horse scoped.
DrO
Member:
Banthony

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 9:09 am:

I read an article recently that said the problem with coastal is not that it is fine, but that it has a high fiber content. It isn't as digestible in the hind gut and sometimes causes blockage.

We do feed some coastal because it is the only reasonably priced hay here. But we always feed another hay with it. Some of our horses hate timothy too. It is a very tough, chewy hay and if they weren't raised on it sometimes won't eat it.

I would definitely look at your worming program. We've had a few recurring, spasmodic (very painful) type colics "cured" with a dose of Quest or a power pack. As Dr. O said, with colic its hard to say.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 9:32 am:

The reason I mentioned ulcers is that my mare coliced while we were riding on trail. She just went down under me. As we were at least a half hour walk to the barn, my daughter ran ahead and called the vet so they would be at the barn as soon as possible. They got there about the same time a we did. My mare was showing extreme pain, pale gums and vet said she heard a heart murmur. Since my vet knew her and knew me well enough that when I said this didn't seem like a 'normal' colic (if there is such a thing) she immediately thought ulcers and we went to Morven Park that day. They scoped her and she had ulcers. Extreme pain was her only symptom of ulcers, she had none of the other symptoms associated with ulcers. She was turned out in pasture 1/2 day, in stall 1/2 day. But she was easily stressed. I'm not saying that is your problem, just explaining why I mentioned it. My vet knew me well enough to listen to me that things just weren't right. One difference in my horse and yours is that she responded to the pain meds (can't remember what she was given at the time). And the murmur went away with the removal of the pain. But the vet said that she was close to going into shock (again can't remember why exactly - that was over 10 years ago). Also, during the 8 years that we battled the ulcers, she never went off feed, the only outward symptoms were colic and stretching like a cat with her front end down and her butt in the sky (even did it while being ridden - that is exciting by the way). Again just describing my mare, not saying that that is what is wrong with yours. Listen to DrO, he will guide you through this.
Kathleen
Member:
Kjthoma

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 10:16 am:

Thanks, Dr. O...

Yes - she had rectals both times - both times the diagnosis was gas colic. No impactions and moist manure. This last go-round the vet said that 'she has gut sounds, but if you thump her side with the stethocope she sounds like a drum'. Vet said that all she could do was treat as if it was a gas colic and see if she improved. She was apparently 'back to normal' this morning.

She is such a food motivated horse (e.g. PIG) that supplementing her w/ some timothy probably makes sense. That is one thing that the barn mgr. and I discussed...also that if he gets a new load of hay that she gets on it gradually.

Kathleen - interesting that your horse never went off feed....I had thot that they pretty much all did that. This horse, fortunately, does not seem to be much of a worrier - except about when she is getting fed next!
New Member:
Gmajj

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 10:46 pm:

In February I hauled my daughter's horse to Texas from Arizona. Took along enough Arizona feed to transition to Texas feed over a one month period. The mare was transitioned to coastal bermuda and shortly after went in to colic. Attending vet indicated that it is not uncommon for this to happen. The mare's Arizona diet included bermuda pasture, bermuda hay, senior feed and alfalfa. Texas diet is coastal bermuda hay, pasture, senior feed and alfalfa. The differences I noticed between coastal and Arizona bermuda are that coastal is baled with much longer stems(I'd guess 2 feet in length) and is finer than what you find in Arizona. When I first saw the coastal, the vision of feeding the horse a ball of fine string entered my mind. The mare is still fed coastal, but in smaller batches and mixed with other feeds.
Member:
Sonoita

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 11:09 pm:

Has she been checked for sand. When I used to live in Florida we had a case of colic once a week . I worked on a farm . Not always the same horse. We had about sixty. They ate off the ground a lot. We gave metamucile or bran once a month. Did not know about Physillum. We had chronic colickers.Good Luck
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