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  Discussion on Bad Reaction to Sedative - Looking for insight
Author Message
New Member:
alarson

Posted on Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 - 1:16 am:

Today, I took my 25 year old mare to my vet clinic to have her teeth floated. She's had this done several times before and it's been, up until today, a simple, non-event procedure. About a minute or two after receiving the sedative, (2 different meds in one shot), she literally flipped out. She proceeded to pull back until she fell on her rear and then flipped over backwards, pulling the rope out of my hand. After about 3 rounds of her thrashing and absolute horror, the vet was able to grab her lead and the vet tech, my hero, lunged in and sat on her neck and held her down so she couldn't rise again. We spent the next several minutes calming her and then waiting for her to come around enough to get her back on her feet. I was half-tempted to call off the floating and take my girl home. The floating went slow (young vet was a bit nervous and seemed jittery - me too!) Once it was all done, except for a few scrapes from the pavement, she was back to normal. Although, I am sure she'll move slow tomorrow. I didn't really get an explanation other than it was rare for a horse to react that way, but some do, and once they do, the may again. After what I witnessed today, it will have to be a life or death situation before I have her sedated again. Any further thoughts or similar experiences?

Thanks,
Alicia
Member:
corinne

Posted on Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 - 11:24 am:

I have seen some paradoxical reactions to sedatives in children...maybe that happens in animals? Also individual adverse reactions to sedatives could be different in each instance. Perhaps it burned with administration and she was pissed. Who knows. Too bad animals can't talk.
On an other note personally I had a reaction to a sedative once, it raised my BP to 180 Systolic (can't remember diastolic) made me heart increase rapidly and sent me into sheer panic with hyperventilation etc. They had to give me 8 mg of Ativan over the course of 30 minutes to bring me down because the first few mgs wouldn't touch it....needless to say I slept for the next day. That one is now listed as a drug allergy. Make sure you note the medications so she isn't given them again.

Glad all that came out of it was a scare for everyone and she was only scraped up. Would be interesting to hear Dr. O's response on adverse reactions to sedatives in horses.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 27, 2007 - 7:06 pm:

Alicia without knowing what drugs were actually used it is hard to say much other than to say that such idiosyncratic reactions have been reported to many sedatives in all species. There are a few interesting features here. First the time it took to develop tells us this was not an inadvertent injection into an artery. Second this may have not been the drug itself, but the horse panicking as may occur when some horses are tied or restrained.
DrO
New Member:
alarson

Posted on Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 - 2:20 am:

Corinne & DrO,

Thanks for your replies. I do know the Dr. was perplexed over one of the viles because it was "smaller" than she was used too...I assumed she meant the bottle itself. This is a new vet to the clinic that I haven't worked with before. The tech assured me on the side she didn't think it was the meds or the doctor (she did everything "as usual"). I guess I am second guessing the doctor since I don't know her and my first impression wasn't too hot. She seemed nervous at the beginning of the appointment and visibly shaken after the episode. The vet tech took the lead once things went out of control and continued to be the steady one throughout the appointment. I'm not sure if it's necessary to find out about the meds or just assume it's my crazy ol' lady and avoid sedatives for her...did I mention she's an ARAB-saddlebred? Maybe the nervous vet gave her something to think about and the drugs exploded that thought in her head. It's just hard to believe after all these years together (she's been mine since the day she was born and I was 7) she could react like she did. I guess this was a lesson: I won't be shy about requesting appointments with the vets I know (or make sure the right vet tech is assisting!) Not that another vet could have prevented this, but I have more trust and confidence in the ones I've seen in action.
Member:
mitma

Posted on Sunday, Jan 28, 2007 - 8:44 pm:

Alicia,
Just as we should all do for ourselves when we receive healthcare, BE an informed consumer of the care your horse (or any animal) receives! Ask what drugs are to be used and why... and like in human medicine, it's O.K. to ask about risks and benefits... Also, all "sedatives" are NOT alike (I don't mean to tread on Dr. O's expertise here... but I do this stuff in human medicine) and they can be INCREDIBLY helpful and beneficial! My mustang mare (who I've had for about three months and she's halter trained now a little bit) has been sedated with Detomidine (see Dr. O's great article on that drug) on two occasions to assist in her hoof trimming... it was really the ONE thing that made her hoof care possible (short of someone bringing a tilt table and her going through that trauma!). I know this experience has been traumatic for you, but I guess, depending on the drugs your mare received, she may not have any memory of the event. Also, regarding the young vet's lack of confidence and apparently being "green", it doesn't mean she doesn't know her stuff, rather, she may just have to get a bit more emotionally desensitized to emergency situations in order to act more effectively and only ongoing experience can do that (again, I am speaking from my own experience in human medicine). Good Luck!
Martha
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 6:02 am:

No feeling of being tread on Martha, your points are consistent with mine and welcome.
DrO
Member:
redalert

Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 10:02 am:

Hey Alicia
And welcome to a great site for help and information! CC your mare's reaction, it sounds very much like an inadvertent injection into the artery (instead of the vein). The only time I have seen this behavior is when that happened. The only thing that makes me second guess my thoughts on this is the time that elapsed before the "thrashing about" began. ARAB/Saddlebred crosses differ in their personalities just like any other breed.... If you inject into the artery of a quarter horse, he would flip out too!
It sounds like you know your horse so I would look elsewhere for the answer.
That is a very scary event, I know. I've only witnessed it once and that was plenty for me!
Nancy
New Member:
alarson

Posted on Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 10:22 am:

Martha,

I trusted that the procedure would be like all the other times before. It wasn't and I can't change what already happened. Will I handle it differently the next time care is needed? You betcha ya! My mare's file has been "flagged" and the next vet that cares for her will see and hear what happened and will need to answer many questions before anyone touches her. If my mare remembered the incident - I doubt it, but her body sure did - she's been quite soar the last two days. As for your mustang, I'm glad that drug intervention is assisting in her getting the care she needs. The mustang my mom adopted and gentled a couple of years ago recently had his teeth floated without any sedative! He's really a neat horse.

As for the vet, I too understand she's green and needs more experience to get over that. But, in my opinion, right now, she's dangerous as a large animal vet. I believe she was nervous before the anything started. Animals sometimes know better what is inside us than we do - if they sense she's nervous or without confidence, they will feed off of that. Again, I don't blame her either - anyone that witnessed this would have had an adrenaline rush. With that said, I do plan on discussing my concerns with the vet that owns the clinic as well as tell him how impressed I was with the vet tech. From now on, I will request the vet(s) I am comfortable with. I do the same with my families care and do my best to make appointments with the doctors I know and trust.
New Member:
alarson

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 - 7:58 pm:

Just an update to this post. I had the vet out today for vaccines and a couple of check-ups, including rechecking my mare's teeth. She's been spitting out wads of chewed hay on occasion. We discussed the previous appointment I had with the other young vet and how that appointment went - as described in previous posts. He knew all about it and was apologetic. I asked him what his take on the situation was. He said he had to be honest and admit it was the vet's mistake. It seems the new vet administered a sedative that is normally reserved for putting an animal out long-term - for surgeries and such - and wasn't appropriate for temporary sedation. He thought what added to the situation is that my mare must be sensitive to the drug, since she was only given 1/5 of the normal dose. He said the vet tech was aware the new vet wasn't following the normal procedure but didn't feel it her place to question her. The young vet is no longer with the clinic - not just for this incident, but some others too and the vet tech has been encourage to voice her concerns, regardless, from now on. He said the names of the drugs, but they all blended together and I can't recall the specifics. When I go to pay the bill, I will ask again so I have it for my own information.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 - 8:36 am:

It was most likely ketamine Alicia. When you first posted I thought it sounded like a possible ketamine reaction but I considered it irresponsible of me to post this without having been there and if the possibility of another explanation.

It delights me they have told you the truth on this though 1/5th a dose for a full size horse (2ml) would be plenty to cause excitement. You should consider this a very good sign this is a quality veterinary practice.
DrO
Member:
alarson

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 - 10:20 am:

Dr. O,

You are exactly right - that was the drug he said. I also asked about which drugs are normally used when mildly sedating a horse. That's where he lost me and I couldn't remember one from the other...but ketamine is the one he said while shaking his head and looking remorseful. My confidence has been greatly restored in the clinic. Honesty really is the best policy.

Thanks for you input!
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